Am I right to discourage my husbands participation?

[Batya33]

My husband wouldn't want to come to a lunch with male work friends that I have but the thing is, a lunch would include a bunch of us (male and female work buds) and we have a lot of fun. One-on-one lunches (with males) I saved for potential new clients I was grooming to become on board with my services. There was no ongoing one on one interaction with them once they came on board. I showed my appreciation in practical closing gifts. (I was a realtor).

 

Oh - I had lunch with male colleagues one on one over the years and had lunch with former male colleagues since we continued the friendship, and, separately, have made platonic male friends over the years in various ways -some I dated, some not. For me it made me a better partner in my romantic relationships and I value friendship -it's a top priority so I'm not going to discount being friends with someone just because he is a he. Same for my husband in reverse.

[ThatwasThen]

Oh - I had lunch with male colleagues one on one over the years and had lunch with former male colleagues since we continued the friendship, and, separately, have made platonic male friends over the years in various ways -some I dated, some not. For me it made me a better partner in my romantic relationships and I value friendship -it's a top priority so I'm not going to discount being friends with someone just because he is a he. Same for my husband in reverse.

 

... Your preogative of course. Its just not what we did nor would we do. Which, like I mentioned earlier, a boundary that has worked well for us and we've not felt we missed out on life in anyway because of it. Discounting a friend? Not having one one one date like activities wouldn't be discounting a friend. It would just be not having one on one date like activities with them.

 

I'm not sure how having a one on one lunch or dinner with someone of the opposite sex can make you a better romantic partner. Can you explain why it has made you a better one?

[Batya33]

... Your preogative of course. Its just not what we did nor would we do. Which, like I mentioned earlier, a boundary that has worked well for us and we've not felt we missed out on life in anyway because of it. Discounting a friend? Not having one one one date like activities wouldn't be discounting a friend. It would just be not having one on one date like activities with them.

 

I'm not sure how having a one on one lunch or dinner with someone of the opposite sex can make you a better romantic partner. Can you explain why it has made you a better one?

 

I've never had a date like activity with a man and never would - meaning no romantic dinners at night (not while I was in any serious relationship - if I wasn't and we were both single then, sure, it didn't affect that we remained platonic -the only reason I didn't when in a relationship is because it's inappropriate and could be playing with fire IMO).

 

My friendships with men over many years have made me a much better partner -my understanding of men, my positive views of men which are based in part on my close friendships with men over the years, my positive views of relationships with men. Just like with my girlfriends, if we felt like meeting up for a meal, we did - not because we sought out meals just depended on scheduling, what we felt like doing, etc. I am a person who is very sensitive to group dynamics -for example I really do not like if I have one on one plans with one of my friends- female or male - if he/she assumes it's ok to invite someone else along especially if we have not caught up in awhile. Changes the whole dynamic. That includes inviting one's partner especially if I do not know the partner well.

 

I think all couples are entitled to their boundaries -no judgment here. In my case I wouldn't have dated a man who said that I could never meet a friend for a meal one on one just because the friend was male. And I've never asked a man to refrain from meeting their female friends for meals one on one. Obviously there are exceptions - I mean just based on gender a blanket "no" would be a dealbreaker for me. I meet my women friends for lunch and dinner and over the years some of them have been lesbians. Are those date like activities then too because my lesbian friend dates women? I don't think so -kind of doesn't make sense to me, either.

 

Again this is just me - my husband and I have always had platonic friends of the opposite sex and I love that and I think people who have close platonic friendships with members of the opposite sex often have a better and more positive perspective on the opposite sex in their romantic relationships. It's just my opinion -no right or wrong.

[ThatwasThen]

Just because a dinner is not intended to be romantic does not negate the fact that it is a one-on-one date like activity.

 

Thanks for your explanation on how having male friends has made you a better partner.

 

For me: I have male friends (that I needn't spend one on one time with doing date like activities) to help me better understand their psyches. I also had a brother and a wonderful father (who loved and valued my mother for over 50 years before she passed away) to spend one on one time with that helped in that department as well.

 

Once again... having opposite sex friendships isn't taboo in our relationship. Having one on one date like activities with them is what we stay away from.

 

In the Op's situation, that dynamic would be perfectly fine for either of us. Its a group activity and the Op's husband has been painted as being a good man with morals, good sense and he values his wife.

 

Cheers.

[Batya33]

Just because a dinner is not intended to be romantic does not negate the fact that it is a one-on-one date like activity.

 

Thanks for your explanation on how having male friends has made you a better partner.

 

For me: I have male friends (that I needn't spend one on one time with doing date like activities) to help me better understand their psyches. I also had a brother and a wonderful father (who loved and valued my mother for over 50 years before she passed away) to spend one on one time with that helped in that department as well.

 

Once again... having opposite sex friendships isn't taboo in our relationship. Having one on one date like activities with them is what we stay away from.

 

In the Op's situation, that dynamic would be perfectly fine for either of us. Its a group activity and the Op's husband has been painted as being a good man with morals, good sense and he values his wife.

 

Cheers.

 

I gave my personal opinion and found your reaction defensive as if I'd stated that you should do things my way. I didn't and didn't intend to which is why I emphasized that it was my personal opinion only - thanks for sharing that you are close with your brother, father and enjoy group activities with male friends as in that is what works for you. I don't go on dates with other men, period, and my husband would never go on a date with another woman or play with fire -neither would I -you and I just have different definitions of what that means. Some men won't be in an elevator alone with a woman because of what that could lead to - what is date like or inappropriate to one person is fine to another. And those differences make the world go round!

 

I'm glad your rules and boundaries work for you -always good to see healthy relationships! For me it would be very unhealthy if I had to see my male friends only in groups and couldn't share a meal with a male friend just because he is a man.

[ThatwasThen]

I gave my personal opinion and found your reaction defensive as if I'd stated that you should do things my way.

Then you read into it wrong. I'm not nor was I defensive in the least, just responding that we do things differently and therefore giving the Op differing views on the same topic as her dilemma.

 

I didn't and didn't intend to which is why I emphasized that it was my personal opinion only - thanks for sharing that you are close with your brother, father and enjoy group activities with male friends as in that is what works for you.

NP

 

I don't go on dates with other men, period, and my husband would never go on a date with another woman or play with fire -neither would I

No, but you do go on date-like activities with men other than your husband. No judging, that is yours to do.

 

-you and I just have different definitions of what that means.

You apparently define it as intent, whereas I define it as the action.

 

Some men won't be in an elevator alone with a woman because of what that could lead to

What? O.O

 

- what is date like or inappropriate to one person is fine to another. And those differences make the world go round!

Getting in an elevator with a stranger is not a date like action. It may be inappropriate to a certain religious or cultural group but that still doesn't make it date like. Can you imagine that as a POF first date meet up... going up and down in an elevator for an hour or two. ;)

 

I'm glad your rules and boundaries work for you -always good to see healthy relationships! For me it would be very unhealthy if I had to see my male friends only in groups and couldn't share a meal with a male friend just because he is a man.

Like I said, to each their own.

[Batya33]

I go on date like activities with everyone then lol including my gay women friends. It is your opinion not a fact as you put it. I don't agree that sharing meals one on one at a restaurant is a date like activity - I do agree if it's a romantic dinner at night at a romantic restaurant on a weekend night it can be inappropriate or playing with fire.

 

If sharing one on one meals is a date like activity I surely hope you and your husband check if your friends are closeted gays or potentially becoming or believing they are the other gender - because by your definition if one of the two people has the potential to be sexually attracted to the other then one on one meals is a no no. Not judging (joke).

 

So you are choosing what date like activity means as well by intention - because you wouldn't intend to be with someone who potentially could be sexually attracted to you -a lesbian or a woman friend exploring being a man and attracted to women, or bisexual - if you're going to have that broad definition then why in the world would it be limited to just someone who presents as a man? And what about gay men -no one on one meals with them either because it's a man? Just showing you where your definition can go if one on one meals is a date like activity.

 

My issue with your approach for me (meaning to each her own I know it works for you!) is it requires me to assume that if I have a one on one meal with a platonic male friend I have to assume that even though we are platonic and we both know that and there is no attraction or even if there were a chance of it we would not act on it - that soemhow being alone in a public place is a “date “ because it’s a restaurant and therefore we can’t be trusted to behave loyally and appropriately with respect to one of us being married or both.

 

I simply can’t live with that presumption of distrust - of myself or the other person - that somehow I’d make a bad choice because were sharing a meal and having a conversation. My trust boundaries are far different because I prioritize the importance of connection and friendship over the level of distrust and control that it would feel like were someone to say “if you want to be with me you have to stop having one on one time with any person who is male.

 

Some people -yes - yes if he is attracted to me or not supportive of my marriage - but then I wouldn’t see the person alone- my husband wouldn’t have to tell me that. Same in reverse. When we were first back together a male friend who id never dated asked to meet for a drink alone one hour before meeting me and my husband for dinner to have a personal conversation. Platonic. My husband who was my boyfriend then wasn’t comfortable with that. He’d never met him and it was a Friday night and he simply didn’t like the sound of it. I was surprised but told my friend no. The result was my friend met my husband and went overboard trying to make him comfortable and being friendly to him. Which my husband responded to positively. We hung out a couple more times before we relocated.

 

So yes of course couples have to talk this stuff out - case by case - yes we always check in with each other about plans whether opposite or same sex - not because of distrust or control but because we like to tell each other what’s going on in our lives. No I don’t love when he has lunch with a particular female colleague- business lunch - I just don’t get a great sense about her values - but I stay quiet because that’s my issue and I need to let him be.

 

Yes I’m ok with blanket statements like “we don’t date other people “ and yes I find your definition of date and date like activity too broad and potentially destroying or hurting the friendships and connections I’ve built over the years and intend to keep making and building. Again just me - and this goes back to the OP and her boundaries and her husband’s - which apparently are very different. And that’s the real issue in my opinion. Hopefully you and I can talk more over a date like activity some day lol.

 

And yes I have had a number of one on one meals with gay women, some are married/committed/some are not. And my husband has had one on one meals with gay men.

[ThatwasThen]

Wow... lol

 

So be it, Batya. I don't have the care to reply to all of that.

 

We clearly have two different ideas of what is and what isn't appropriate so lets just get on with the next thread. In the scheme of things it really doesn't matter to yours or my relationship what the two of us find okay or not. ;)

[Batya33]

Wow... lol

 

So be it, Batya. I don't have the care to reply to all of that.

 

We clearly have two different ideas of what is and what isn't appropriate so lets just get on with the next thread. In the scheme of things it really doesn't matter to yours or my relationship what the two of us find okay or not. ;)

 

No worries - I agree with what you wrote and always did - just took issue with you stating as a fact that one on one meals are always "date-like activities". It's an opinion and you are entitled to your opinion!

[jimthzz]

Why not just go with him, even one time? You might enjoy yourself and find out you've been worrying for nothing.

 

Why not just say you’ve thought about it and you realized you had nothing to be worried about? That would probably make him happy.

 

btw, if you are uncomfortable being with people you do not know, has this limited your husband's ability to make friends? He feels obligated to accommodate that?

 

OK start there. Invite his friend and wife for dinner/drinks/brunch whatever. It be breaks the ice and you can befriend his friend and his wife. It's a step in the right direction indicating understanding and being sociable rather than leading with paranoia and jealousy and policing.

 

why cant he go?

Are they in a public place? is brunch code for orgy?

 

As long as he wanted to go, and want coming home with lipstick stains, I think you need to ease up on this. Has he come back from one saying that someone made an inappropriate advance? Thats your only justification.

You mentioned in another post that you expected women to support this decision. If you had no cause, I wouldnt support taking something away from your husband that is innocent.

 

With that logic only men should work with men and women work with women. You make it sound like the man is without personal boundaries, good sense, love for his wife, trust in his own ability to stay faithful. Are you talking about your own short falls, verona and projecting them in this thread?

 

You essentially called him a cheater, and isolating him from hanging out with friend. You also insulted all the women thinking they were just predators. I would apologize. Don't try to justify why you did what you did...you took the air out of the whole get-together. Just apologize with that you may have just been feeling insecure.

 

I think you ought to re-open the book on this and go with him from time to time. To put it bluntly, make it a "marking your territory" exercise. Or, even to find friendships yourself.

 

Make friends with these women of his past.

 

I doubt they are any more predatory than you would be if you lost your husband.

 

Put yourself in their shoes. If you were widowed, God forbid, and at such a gathering, would you be a mate poacher? would you be offended to find out one of your friend's wife thought this of you?

[Jude23]

I think you ought to re-open the book on this and go with him from time to time. To put it bluntly, make it a "marking your territory" exercise. Or, even to find friendships yourself.

 

Make friends with these women of his past.

 

I doubt they are any more predatory than you would be if you lost your husband.

 

Put yourself in their shoes. If you were widowed, God forbid, and at such a gathering, would you be a mate poacher? would you be offended to find out one of your friend's wife thought this of you?

 

Good points, although I know "me" a lot better than I know any of them. :-)

 

Quite frankly, even though I should have handled it better, I don't want to reopen it. We talked about it so much, and it incited so much tension, that I dread resurrecting it. Things are going very well now and I'd hate to regenerate the problem. It feels like it's over, and I think it'll have to stay that way.

[ThatwasThen]

Good points, although I know "me" a lot better than I know any of them. :-)

 

Quite frankly, even though I should have handled it better, I don't want to reopen it. We talked about it so much, and it incited so much tension, that I dread resurrecting it. Things are going very well now and I'd hate to regenerate the problem. It feels like it's over, and I think it'll have to stay that way.

 

Well, of course you don't want to reopen it. You did get Your way after all!

[jimthzz]

Good points, although I know "me" a lot better than I know any of them. :-)

 

Quite frankly, even though I should have handled it better, I don't want to reopen it. We talked about it so much, and it incited so much tension, that I dread resurrecting it. Things are going very well now and I'd hate to regenerate the problem. It feels like it's over, and I think it'll have to stay that way.

 

So, the next time that there are potentially women anywhere in the vicinity of your husband, what are you going to do?

 

Will you trust HIM more than you don't trust other women?

[mustlovedogs]

It may be over for you, but no guarantees that he doesn’t resent you.

[Ragnar]

You have a normal and valid interest in some of the details of the brunch.

 

It doesn't sound like you really mistrust dear H in a serious way. Certainly not worth flogging yourself.

 

Are there women at the brunch that may be looking to have a dalliance? More than likely. But that's really not unexpected.

 

If H is a "good catch" physically and financially, he's getting hit on every now and then, it's not a big thing.

 

All in all, unless you think it's worth bringing the whole thing up again, do so. If not, and things are good, let it go.

 

Only you know what may be best.

 

If he wants to go again, go with him every now and then. You won't be an odd person out. Your married to him for goodness sake.

That makes "them" all odd persons out, as far as you and hubby are concerned.

[abitbroken]

It may be over for you, but no guarantees that he doesn’t resent you.

 

Agree. And its not just about the brunch. Its part of a longer pattern --- if you "don't like strangers" and he can't socialize because of you. (you may tell him to "go ahead, go out with your friends but he clearly cares for you and there are situations where a spouse would go or its very normal for people to go out as couples with others-- to establish friendships "as couples" with an old classmate of his and his/her spouse, etc. When my cousins and i get together - our spouses are included unless they are working. And also i sense that you make him feel bad that you only want to socialize with him).

 

you can let resentment build up or you can tell him "sorry, i realized that i am wrong." Its going to be hard for him to go now because he is going to think its a trap -- that you are testing him.

[Jgregoire108]

None of the women tried to lure him away as far as I know. But that doesn't mean they won't in the future. The more he goes, the more likely it would be.

 

I get what you are trying to say here, but thats like saying...

 

"I don't want my 16yr old daughter to drive, because even though she hasn't had an accident now, that doesn't mean she wont have one in the future. The more she drives, the more likely it would be"

 

All of life is about risk and danger, including relationships.

 

Would you make your daughter walk everywhere because you let your fear of them getting into an accident control their decisions or choices?

This is the same with your husband. Dont let your fear that he may cheat or be lured away control his life, choices, and decisions.

[redswim30]

[/i]"

 

All of life is about risk and danger, including relationships.

 

Yes. You say there's never been any infidelity, you've been married a number of years, why are you so worried? Why are you so insecure?

 

BTW, I am married and send Christmas cards to my male friends. It means NOTHING romantic. I would be questioning my husband's trust in me if he thought I was having an affair with every friend I sent a Christmas card to.

 

OP, you are really going to make your husband resent you. You are acting extremely unreasonable. You are acting controlling. You are acting insecure and manipulative. He's catching up with old friends. Friends that were presumably a part of his life before he met you. He's been faithful to you, so why are you trying to limit what friendships he has? He's allowed to care about other people, and yes even other women. You could go with him if you want. If you are unwilling and already judging these people or writing them off, I really have to wonder if you have some issues with being close to people. Do you have many close friends or is your husband your whole world? Even in the BEST of marriages, you need friends and platonic relationships outside the marriage. No one person can be everything to you. And no one person SHOULD be, it is not in any way healthy.

 

My ex-husband behaved as though I should have no friends. I grew to resent him for it. After we divorced, I was so much happier when I realized I could have friends. My current husband is mature and secure enough in our love to know I would never cheat on him. And my life is fuller and I am happier because I have friendships that make my life more complete.

 

I think you need to take a minute and really think about why this is upsetting you so much. What are you really afraid of? IMVHO, I get the sense that what you are really afraid of isn't an actual affair, but that you won't be the most important person to your husband anymore. Please remember that him valuing other people does NOT in any way mean that he values you less.

[Cherylyn]

I wouldn't discourage the classmate group if there were more men to even out the ratio better. Since it's mainly 15 women and only 2 men, it's odd that the men are interested in meeting for monthly brunches. I would accompany my husband to these brunches and perhaps become friends with one or several of the classmates.

 

Since your husband decided not to attend these brunches anymore, that's that. If he wants to see his friend, he can meet him at a restaurant once in awhile.

[redswim30]

I wouldn't discourage the classmate group if there were more men to even out the ratio better. Since it's mainly 15 women and only 2 men, it's odd that the men are interested in meeting for monthly brunches. I would accompany my husband to these brunches and perhaps become friends with one or several of the classmates.

 

Since your husband decided not to attend these brunches anymore, that's that. If he wants to see his friend, he can meet him at a restaurant once in awhile.

 

I really don't see how the ratio of men to women matters. If they are old friends, why is it odd? If her husband is faithful, he's faithful- no matter HOW many women are around. What if he worked in an office that had more women than men? Is he definitely gonna cheat just because there's women around? She must have a really low opinion of her husband to think that. Like he can't control himself at ALL.

I agree that she should go and meet his friends. She may even like them and make a friend of her own. Also, then it wouldn't be shrouded in mystery. She imagining it is worse than it actually is. She should go and see that a brunch is just a brunch.

 

The problem is- he DIDN'T decide. He felt forced to choose between his spouse and his friends because his wife nagged him about it due to her insecurities, which is not healthy.

 

He's not going to forget this. Because it's not really about a brunch. It's that he'll likely be frustrated feeling like his wife doesn't trust him, doesn't care that he wants his friends in his life, and isn't at all secure in the marriage, even after years and years of proven loyalty. Which is NOT a good feeling. OP, how would you feel if an old male friend of yours decided to send you a Christmas card and then your husband accused you of cheating or behaved as though you were definitely going to cheat on him because of this card? And he said that he trusted you but not the man? WOULD you feel like he trusted you? Or would you feel belittled, insulted, and disrespected since you've never given him reason to question your loyalty?

 

OP, you can SAY you trust your husband all you want. But actions speak louder than words.

He may no longer go to brunch. But in my opinion you have created a far more serious problem in your marriage now.

[Cherylyn]

I really don't see how the ratio of men to women matters. If they are old friends, why is it odd? If her husband is faithful, he's faithful- no matter HOW many women are around. What if he worked in an office that had more women than men? Is he definitely gonna cheat just because there's women around? She must have a really low opinion of her husband to think that. Like he can't control himself at ALL.

I agree that she should go and meet his friends. She may even like them and make a friend of her own. Also, then it wouldn't be shrouded in mystery. She imagining it is worse than it actually is. She should go and see that a brunch is just a brunch.

 

The problem is- he DIDN'T decide. He felt forced to choose between his spouse and his friends because his wife nagged him about it due to her insecurities, which is not healthy.

 

He's not going to forget this. Because it's not really about a brunch. It's that he'll likely be frustrated feeling like his wife doesn't trust him, doesn't care that he wants his friends in his life, and isn't at all secure in the marriage, even after years and years of proven loyalty. Which is NOT a good feeling. OP, how would you feel if an old male friend of yours decided to send you a Christmas card and then your husband accused you of cheating or behaved as though you were definitely going to cheat on him because of this card? And he said that he trusted you but not the man? WOULD you feel like he trusted you? Or would you feel belittled, insulted, and disrespected since you've never given him reason to question your loyalty?

 

OP, you can SAY you trust your husband all you want. But actions speak louder than words.

He may no longer go to brunch. But in my opinion you have created a far more serious problem in your marriage now.

 

I think you're being very fair and you're right, he DIDN'T decide. He acquiesced in order to silence her.

 

I admit I am insecure in a way. I wouldn't like it if my husband met his former classmate in a sea of females for brunch every month. I should be enough female for my husband including friendship. Call me old-fashioned or whatever but that's how I am and in my case, my husband would see my side. It's not only a matter of trust or stealing husbands either even though the OP fears this. It just seems like a singles type party despite my married husband in the mix. I'm sure it's all quite innocent but it would make me feel uneasy. Not that my husband would attend but he's the type who would understand how I feel even though outsiders may not see my point.

 

Every couple is different. Some don't see anything wrong with it and others have a problem with this and I am one of them. I fully support what other couples do and if they reach an agreement, then swell. I also fully support other people's opinions as well. As for my husband and I, we're different and while a one time HS reunion is fine, habitual brunches with only 2 men and 15 women wouldn't sit well with me. Fortunately, something like this wouldn't cause an explosive argument with my husband. He's easy going and the type to understand how I would feel about this. And, he's the type to ask if I 'd like to join and make some friends myself with those women. Or, he could meet his friend for a meal every now and then.

[abitbroken]

I think you're being very fair and you're right, he DIDN'T decide. He acquiesced in order to silence her.

 

I admit I am insecure in a way. I wouldn't like it if my husband met his former classmate in a sea of females for brunch every month. I should be enough female for my husband including friendship. Call me old-fashioned or whatever but that's how I am and in my case, my husband would see my side. It's not only a matter of trust or stealing husbands either even though the OP fears this. It just seems like a singles type party despite my married husband in the mix. I'm sure it's all quite innocent but it would make me feel uneasy. Not that my husband would attend but he's the type who would understand how I feel even though outsiders may not see my point.

 

Every couple is different. Some don't see anything wrong with it and others have a problem with this and I am one of them. I fully support what other couples do and if they reach an agreement, then swell. I also fully support other people's opinions as well. As for my husband and I, we're different and while a one time HS reunion is fine, habitual brunches with only 2 men and 15 women wouldn't sit well with me. Fortunately, something like this wouldn't cause an explosive argument with my husband. He's easy going and the type to understand how I would feel about this. And, he's the type to ask if I 'd like to join and make some friends myself with those women. Or, he could meet his friend for a meal every now and then.

 

You are confusing situational friendships from close friendships. Yes, aside from close relationships with family - sisters, grandma, etc, being all the female friendship he *needs* is valid, but being *friends* with the neighbors, classmates, other parents from your kids' sports team, coworkers is totally different. I am friends with male classmates. I may not see them for 10 years, but if i knew someone who was starting in their industry, i could send them an email or call and say "hey, classmate, my nephew is starting in your field, any pointers?" Do i spill my heart out to them? no. Have i me their wife? Unless they were dating them when we were in school - probably not. And as far as a hobby i am involved with - do i have to take one of the women out to lunch outside of the group to appease my husband since the group is male dominated? Nope. i can simply go to the meetings and converse with whoever is there. I have my own close friends.

[Cherylyn]

You are confusing situational friendships from close friendships. Yes, aside from close relationships with family - sisters, grandma, etc, being all the female friendship he *needs* is valid, but being *friends* with the neighbors, classmates, other parents from your kids' sports team, coworkers is totally different. I am friends with male classmates. I may not see them for 10 years, but if i knew someone who was starting in their industry, i could send them an email or call and say "hey, classmate, my nephew is starting in your field, any pointers?" Do i spill my heart out to them? no. Have i me their wife? Unless they were dating them when we were in school - probably not. And as far as a hobby i am involved with - do i have to take one of the women out to lunch outside of the group to appease my husband since the group is male dominated? Nope. i can simply go to the meetings and converse with whoever is there. I have my own close friends.

 

I think whatever you're comfortable with, go for it. Each couple needs to work it out somehow.

[RunnerGrlX]

I may be late in responding to this, but perhaps join him one time. Who knows it may increase your social circle.