Update & question on where to go from here

[figureitout23]

Haha blue I was actually dog whistling the poster who said the OPer was overthinking, but that made me laugh

[figureitout23]

It sounds like you are disappointed because he didn't tell you what you were hoping for. However, he's not stringing you along because he's not making promises.

 

True!

 

True!

 

 

That’s true bluecastle, perhaps I like to see the different perspectives a little too much. I just like to better understand where people may be coming from.

 

I appreciate your insight and I’m so sorry that I’m coming off as wanting him to be more like me, because I don’t actually want that. I want him to be honest. “Yes/no/I’m not there yet, but here’s the plan _____”. He’s a very confident and assured person in general so seeing him this unsure is almost unsettling-like I’ve caused him to battle some inner demon by asking a question. Even yesterday I was like “dude, it’s not that deep. If that’s how you have to approach it, you do what you need to, but just know I’m not asking for you to approach it that way”.

 

Last night as he kept talking in circles and I sat there listening every time he said “I’m anxious or nervous about _____” I wanted to say “okay, what are you going to do about it?” Believe me I do not want these long conversations. I’m more of a “hey so this is a thing now, cool?” Or even better yet just getting introduced as a partner haha.

 

Sex is already off the table unfortunately, but I may continue to date and just have fun knowing that I won’t be able to be here waiting for him to get back when he leaves. I find it a little peculiar that he still wants to date in the absence of intimacy, but maybe he really does like me and really is just this conflicted.

 

I can see what you’re saying about the darker lens as this last experience has definitely given me pause. I’m curious to see if going forward, not being told were going to talk, if I can have a more enjoyable time.

 

I think that’s the smartest thing to do. The doors still open but youre pulling back so IF things end you don’t have as far to fall had you stayed stuck waiting on his indecision.

[akrngrl]

True!

 

True!

 

 

 

 

I think that’s the smartest thing to do. The doors still open but youre pulling back so IF things end you don’t have as far to fall had you stayed stuck waiting on his indecision.

 

You’re very right and probably the tactic I’ll take. He’s been acting as though nothing is out of the ordinary and I have been responding in kind.

 

I know I’m projecting and perhaps I should wait until it happens, but if things continue as they are I don’t see why he wouldn’t invite me to his event to meet his family. I can’t imagine I’d be comfortable doing so in these circumstances, but again, I don’t want to bring up “no because we’re not together, etc.”. Is there a better way to decline than with the truth if I’m truly uncomfortable? Same with the vacation talk-that always comes up every time we hang out. Nervous laugh and deflect? That’s kind of what I did yesterday haha.

[Wiseman2]

When someone is deliberately vague, ambiguous, "confused" or talking in circles, it's because you are not on the same page . You want to nail him down to something and he wants to keep it light but not string you along, make empty promises etc. He didn't suddenly develop an anxiety disorder.

 

He would rather you do exactly what you are doing which is creating this inner dialogue and filling in all the blanks and vagueness with whatever you want. In this case you want him to make it official so when he travels/moves you have a bf and can get off the online dating coffee meet merry-go-round.

He’s a very confident and assured person in general so seeing him this unsure is almost unsettling-like I’ve caused him to battle some inner demon by asking a question.

[akrngrl]

When someone is deliberately vague, ambiguous, "confused" or talking in circles, it's because you are not on the same page . You want to nail him down to something and he wants to keep it light but not string you along, make empty promises etc. He didn't suddenly develop an anxiety disorder.

 

He would rather you do exactly what you are doing which is creating this inner dialogue and filling in all the blanks and vagueness with whatever you want. In this case you want him to make it official so when he travels/moves you have a bf and can get off the online dating coffee meet merry-go-round.

 

I 100% agree. The only blanks I’m filling in is “good, but not good enough to be official with”. It’s all about him and creating a way that he can get what he wants, but also not be held accountable/be a disappointment. That seems to be his biggest concern, someone he cares about thinking poorly of him because he can’t deliver. And if that’s more important than being upfront and honest about where he’s at, he’s not the man for me.

 

I also find it weird that all of these issues only come up once he calls me his “girlfriend”. Like me being upset with him now wouldn’t phase him? He seems to be pretty worried about it.

 

We’re not kids that don’t know how common decency works. I now wish I’d asked what all of this would have looked like when he went away. I had a lot of respect, but now some of that has been chipped away at.

[akrngrl]

I 100% agree. The only blanks I’m filling in is “good, but not good enough to be official with”. It’s all about him and creating a way that he can get what he wants, but also not be held accountable/be a disappointment. That seems to be his biggest concern, someone he cares about thinking poorly of him because he can’t deliver. And if that’s more important than being upfront and honest about where he’s at, he’s not the man for me.

 

I also find it weird that all of these issues only come up once he calls me his “girlfriend”. Like me being upset with him now wouldn’t phase him? He seems to be pretty worried about it.

 

We’re not kids that don’t know how common decency works. I now wish I’d asked what all of this would have looked like when he went away. I had a lot of respect, but now some of that has been chipped away at.

 

ETA: by up front and honest I mean not saying he “can get there he just needs to sort things out” if that’s code for “I want to keep things as they are”.

[Batya33]

ETA: by up front and honest I mean not saying he “can get there he just needs to sort things out” if that’s code for “I want to keep things as they are”.

 

Also consider that he might be lying to himself about what he really wants v. what he "should" want.

[akrngrl]

Also consider that he might be lying to himself about what he really wants v. what he "should" want.

 

Very good point and perhaps the case due to all of the “Ive been thinking about everything a lot and have thoughts to share :)” vs. getting there and him being like “So my thoughts! Nothing new, still worried about distance and putting in the investment of being emotionally vulnerable to someone”

 

Between that and telling me he’d hidden the dating apps before he actually did makes me feel like he’s just telling me what he thinks I want to hear rather then actually listening to what I’m saying lol. Also why I won’t be booking plane tickets for this vacation any time soon.

 

I’ve got to hand it to him though, he’s the first guy I’ve ever met/been with that though he’s really enjoyed intimacy is fine with the fact that it’s not happening and still wants to take me out regardless.

[bluecastle]

Here's my armchair psych read on this dude.

 

There is a gap—not huge, but not insignificant—between who he is right this second and who he wants to be/thinks he is supposed to be. That, of course, is the case for most people, or at least interesting people who are ambitious, curious, dynamic, eager to grow. Being an adult, in a lot of ways, is kind of learning to live with that gap so you can be your most authentic self—to yourself and to others. Until you can see that gap, and own it without apology, you can't quite explore it with grace, let alone bridge it.

 

But for some reason he's not presently comfortable with this gap. That discomfort—important point—predates you.

 

More specific: I think he wants to be a man of intention and borderline old-school convention, ready to settle down into a relationship with an awesome woman. He wants to be Metal's husband, basically. That is who he wants to see in the mirror, and because of that it's the guy he wants you to see across the table.

 

But he's not quite that guy, not right now, and it annoys him. Work stuff, travel stuff, and, yeah, maybe even some nebulous interest in just identifying as single for a few more minutes or weeks or months, whatever that means. Hard stuff to articulate in a straightforward manner—not just to you, but to himself. Just trying to articulate it, in ways, makes him question himself, reminds him that he is not inhabiting his ideal version of himself.

 

Hence the vague circular babble. Hence that confidence you admire giving way to wobbles that annoy and fluster you and, in the process, mess with your own confidence.

 

And what's causing those wobbles? Well, you are. Not because you are an anxious crazypants nag fixated on locking him down 4eva—you're not—but because you are an awesome woman who he is compelled by and attracted to. Probably more than he thought he'd be when he first swiped right.

 

Contrary to your "good, but not good enough" read—which is really just your own deep shyt surfacing, shyt that predated him—my read is more that he sees you as "too good, too awesome, too much for him to handle." At least in the way the fantasy/ideal version of himself is supposed to handle these moments.

 

And I'm not saying you're awesome to blow smoke up your you know what. Because, sadly, it sort of doesn't matter if this is the affect your awesomeness has on him, right now. Because, ironically, the whole dynamic is causing you to lose sight of your own awesomeness.

 

Your growing disrespect for him? I'd argue it's a mirror for the little dents your own self-respect have incurred in these spins.

 

Speaking for myself, I know it took me a good long time to be comfortable enough in my skin—comfortable inhabiting that little forever gap, even when it's annoyingly wide—to be able to clearly and respectfully tell a romantic interest something that (a) is fully authentic and (b) I know might disappoint them. Something I know may be the dealbreaker. Something I know may reveal, say, that I am not Metal's husband, not built like that. Like, to give some relevant and incendiary examples, still wanting to be on dating apps. Or not wanting to be sexually monogamous. Once upon a time I hedged and wobbled in those moments. Today I express a wonder if those wants can coexist, at least for a moment, or in some way I can't quite explain but would like to explore, in the developing of a connection with partnership/teammate potential.

 

Men, I believe, have a much harder time being straightforward than women. In my case, it took a lot of women being straightforward with me and telling me things I don't want to hear—like the aforementioned woman I dated a million years ago who told me she'd slept with someone else—to understand how vital it is, how freeing. And how respectful.

 

It's empowering, always, because it's honest. It empowers you and calms you, because you get to be authentic, and it calms and empowers the other person, even if it hurts them. You are showing respect to that person, in a way, by acknowledging that they are strong and resilient enough to handle pain and complex truths, to say nothing of the reality that you only have so much power to devastate them. They were fine before meeting you, will be fine if things don't work, and the only way you can both be fine together is if you're able to be straightforward.

 

It's why, weirdly, being prepared to hurt someone (hopefully in minor ways) and being prepared to be hurt (ditto) are critical factors required for being able to get into a relationship, to go with that big crazy flow instead of just the casual flow, where it's easy (and intoxicating) to feel authentic during the first few dates/weeks, before the stuff lurking in the depths surfaces.

 

And it's why it's not weird that all this comes up when the word "girlfriend" enters the conversation. Somewhere in those silly labels is the reality of entering an exchange of pain—delivering it and receiving it, along with all the pleasures.

 

He's not ready for that, not quite. And yet he knows the obvious alternative—cursory swiping, fluttery first dates that feel semi-good but go nowhere—is also not what he wants, though it might be something he's not totally, totally ready to give up. He's stuck in the gap.

 

Does all that mean it's time to walk away? Maybe, maybe not. You clearly remain compelled and curious, and that's fine. More than fine. Awesome. And it seems you're changing tack in how to handle that, moving forward. Pulling away a bit—not to tease him or test him, but to protect yourself, to stay grounded in reality even if he's in a lame, stunted-manboy purgatory. To stay a little open but not overly vulnerable. Removing a few eggs from the basket.

 

You're shoring up your self-respect—on your own—and you know what? He respects it. It's why he's not bolting with intimacy removed. You're showing your strength, which is the ultimate turn on, far more than what can happen in 20 minutes in a bed.

 

I like this approach, if you can handle it while still feeling in touch with you authentic self. I've been on all sides of it—his and yours. Sometimes, to explore it, I have to remind myself of what it is I'm really, really seeking—past labels. Which is just connection, deep and deepening connection. Teammate/partnership is the ideal on the horizon, but that doesn't mean there isn't joy and growth and depth and pleasure to experience along the way, even with someone who ultimately turns out to not be your partner/teammate.

[akrngrl]

Here's my armchair psych read on this dude.

 

There is a gap—not huge, but not insignificant—between who he is right this second and who he wants to be/thinks he is supposed to be. That, of course, is the case for most people, or at least interesting people who are ambitious, curious, dynamic, eager to grow. Being an adult, in a lot of ways, is kind of learning to live with that gap so you can be your most authentic self—to yourself and to others. Until you can see that gap, and own it without apology, you can't quite explore it with grace, let alone bridge it.

 

But for some reason he's not presently comfortable with this gap. That discomfort—important point—predates you.

 

More specific: I think he wants to be a man of intention and borderline old-school convention, ready to settle down into a relationship with an awesome woman. He wants to be Metal's husband, basically. That is who he wants to see in the mirror, and because of that it's the guy he wants you to see across the table.

 

But he's not quite that guy, not right now, and it annoys him. Work stuff, travel stuff, and, yeah, maybe even some nebulous interest in just identifying as single for a few more minutes or weeks or months, whatever that means. Hard stuff to articulate in a straightforward manner—not just to you, but to himself. Just trying to articulate it, in ways, makes him question himself, reminds him that he is not inhabiting his ideal version of himself.

 

Hence the vague circular babble. Hence that confidence you admire giving way to wobbles that annoy and fluster you and, in the process, mess with your own confidence.

 

And what's causing those wobbles? Well, you are. Not because you are an anxious crazypants nag fixated on locking him down 4eva—you're not—but because you are an awesome woman who he is compelled by and attracted to. Probably more than he thought he'd be when he first swiped right.

 

Contrary to your "good, but not good enough" read—which is really just your own deep shyt surfacing, shyt that predated him—my read is more that he sees you as "too good, too awesome, too much for him to handle." At least in the way the fantasy/ideal version of himself is supposed to handle these moments.

 

And I'm not saying you're awesome to blow smoke up your you know what. Because, sadly, it sort of doesn't matter if this is the affect your awesomeness has on him, right now. Because, ironically, the whole dynamic is causing you to lose sight of your own awesomeness.

 

Your growing disrespect for him? I'd argue it's a mirror for the little dents your own self-respect have incurred in these spins.

 

Speaking for myself, I know it took me a good long time to be comfortable enough in my skin—comfortable inhabiting that little forever gap, even when it's annoyingly wide—to be able to clearly and respectfully tell a romantic interest something that (a) is fully authentic and (b) I know might disappoint them. Something I know may be the dealbreaker. Something I know may reveal, say, that I am not Metal's husband, not built like that. Like, to give some relevant and incendiary examples, still wanting to be on dating apps. Or not wanting to be sexually monogamous. Once upon a time I hedged and wobbled in those moments. Today I express a wonder if those wants can coexist, at least for a moment, or in some way I can't quite explain but would like to explore, in the developing of a connection with partnership/teammate potential.

 

Men, I believe, have a much harder time being straightforward than women. In my case, it took a lot of women being straightforward with me and telling me things I don't want to hear—like the aforementioned woman I dated a million years ago who told me she'd slept with someone else—to understand how vital it is, how freeing. And how respectful.

 

It's empowering, always, because it's honest. It empowers you and calms you, because you get to be authentic, and it calms and empowers the other person, even if it hurts them. You are showing respect to that person, in a way, by acknowledging that they are strong and resilient enough to handle pain and complex truths, to say nothing of the reality that you only have so much power to devastate them. They were fine before meeting you, will be fine if things don't work, and the only way you can both be fine together is if you're able to be straightforward.

 

It's why, weirdly, being prepared to hurt someone (hopefully in minor ways) and being prepared to be hurt (ditto) are critical factors required for being able to get into a relationship, to go with that big crazy flow instead of just the casual flow, where it's easy (and intoxicating) to feel authentic during the first few dates/weeks, before the stuff lurking in the depths surfaces.

 

And it's why it's not weird that all this comes up when the word "girlfriend" enters the conversation. Somewhere in those silly labels is the reality of entering an exchange of pain—delivering it and receiving it, along with all the pleasures.

 

He's not ready for that, not quite. And yet he knows the obvious alternative—cursory swiping, fluttery first dates that feel semi-good but go nowhere—is also not what he wants, though it might be something he's not totally, totally ready to give up. He's stuck in the gap.

 

Does all that mean it's time to walk away? Maybe, maybe not. You clearly remain compelled and curious, and that's fine. More than fine. Awesome. And it seems you're changing tack in how to handle that, moving forward. Pulling away a bit—not to tease him or test him, but to protect yourself, to stay grounded in reality even if he's in a lame, stunted-manboy purgatory. To stay a little open but not overly vulnerable. Removing a few eggs from the basket.

 

You're shoring up your self-respect—on your own—and you know what? He respects it. It's why he's not bolting with intimacy removed. You're showing your strength, which is the ultimate turn on, far more than what can happen in 20 minutes in a bed.

 

I like this approach, if you can handle it while still feeling in touch with you authentic self. I've been on all sides of it—his and yours. Sometimes, to explore it, I have to remind myself of what it is I'm really, really seeking—past labels. Which is just connection, deep and deepening connection. Teammate/partnership is the ideal on the horizon, but that doesn't mean there isn't joy and growth and depth and pleasure to experience along the way, even with someone who ultimately turns out to not be your partner/teammate.

 

This is very interesting and I love your interpretation. Just as I was becoming a jerk who only saw the cut and dry you opened it up to there probably being a whole lot more bubbling under the surface.

 

I haven’t considered my “good, but not good enough” to be my own bs, but you’re right-they’re could be something to it. Years of hearing “I don’t know what I want” and then immediately after me, getting married or in a heavily committed relationship I suppose. I’ll own that, it has just always seemed prevalent in others situations as well as my own so I generalized it.

 

Perhaps if I didn’t have that in the back of my head or on my shoulder I would be able to freely go into this and pursue it as is, but I’m scared. LDR is hard enough for people who are committed and have that ~security (for lack of a better word).

 

I think I’m worried that he wants to have space to do what he needs to do when he can. And if he’s not in contact, not making the effort to see me over the tenth trip with friends, etc and I get upset he can settle in with “I’m sorry, but I don’t owe you anything, we’re not really together.”

 

I’m dancing the line of “explain this to me because I want to understand” and “this has nothing to do with me, you need to work this out”

 

As I’ve said, my perspective is “right here, right now, you’re great, I genuinely like you and want to be with you.” Assess everything else along the way as it comes.

 

Maybe I hate long distance in 6 months, maybe he texts only once a month, not because he’s genuinely not available, but because he doesn’t want to talk to me-literally anything can happen and that was my point when I was like “man you’re getting wayyyy too far ahead of yourself with your thinking, please don’t think I’m asking you to plan out that far.”

 

I see someone who is smart, capable and currently worth it to me (and man I don’t say that often) to step into that wonky weird space of distance and apparently traveling. Side note: I don’t travel, I hate the idea of travel, BUT something about doing it with him makes it seem fun and worthwhile and above all exciting. Is that me bending myself for him? Maybe, but I generally take on other people’s passions because their excitement makes me excited. My passion is building a business, I LOVE it, but not exactly a shareable experience lol.

 

And perhaps that’s my hangup. I’m sure anyone who liked to travel wouldn’t give a hill of beans what they were to someone who was offering it. They’d go for the experience. That’s a very vulnerable situation for me and I’m not about to just hand that over to someone who maybe is going to ghost in two months.

 

He is an old fashioned guy in the sense that you mentioned and perhaps that’s on some level why I want this official-not because now he has to marry me, but because we have at least committed to a level of decency and can discuss our wants/needs without that looming feeling of the other person not technically owing us anything.

 

I’m definitely pulling back. As I said, he never really wanted me to delete the dating apps on my end so for better or worse I’m still on there.

 

In this space I’m unsure, I don’t know how to act and while I can’t In good conscience reinstate sex, it’s kind of like we’re just friends with mild benefits haha. This is my thing to work through though. It was easy when everything was seemingly building towards something (thinking “he wouldn’t vacation with me if he didn’t like me” and “he hasn’t told his parents about me because he doesn’t want to deal with the questions so if I meet them when they visit like he asked that HAS to be a good sign”). Now I just worry that I’m going to be the woman that wastes years of her life and ultimately has nothing to show for it other than some cool memories. Again my fears to work though, and perhaps I should be doing that in this space that he’s maybe working through his stuff.

 

I’m glad though that I’m able to be where I am and assert my needs and take some eggs out of the basket because this would not have been the case five years ago.

 

For what it’s worth from an Internet stranger, I really value your views and appreciate again you taking the time to help sort things out and get me to at least realize my own shyt-now I just have to figure out how to fix it haha.

[reinventmyself]

I see a few things going on here. You, yourself admit that you are still unsure at this time if this potential relationship has any legs. It's still in the discovery phase and it seems for you, you feel the need to lock him down before you decide if you are all in. Let me ask you, is that fair?

 

I get that putting a label on it provides you a safe place to let your guard down some and really get to core of this. But are you strong enough to figure this out without a written guarantee from him?

 

I've been on both sides. I totally get where you are coming from. Online dating is slippery slope and if you've done it more than once you have likely had the rug pulled out from under you. I get the desire for the guarantee. But I am going to challenge you to find that security you are seeking from within. Because after all, people will disappoint you. You can't control that. The added bonus is that inner confidence is very attractive and will change your dating experiences.

 

Secondly, I've been in his position. Thoroughly enjoying the process of getting to know someone, sexual exclusivity, no multi dating, looking for a relationship and pretty much having the same, sometimes ambiguous exchanges you've had.

 

I have had men try to pin me down at the very point you are at for labels, where is this going? and other such talks and as much as I may want the same exact thing, those conversations and need for reassurance early on cause me to back up and lose attraction.

 

I told someone once that it was much like planting a seed. You need to water it, nurture it and resist turning over the soil to see if it's growing. You do that too much you are likely to kill it. Depending on the tone, I might be giving vague answers too because I am not entirely certain at that point in time. That's coming from a place that is entirely fair and honest, from my prospective. I can't predict the future and I am giving them all I have to offer at that time.

 

I will flip over and admit the online activity you witnessed would throw me too. I don't know how I would handle it at this point and time. There is a lot of room for misunderstandings where this is concerned. But I will not have sex with someone who is still shopping, period.

And I only need to make that clear once. If the subject rears it's head again, I am out.

 

One time I did enter a new relationship with sexual exclusivity and when I realized the interpretation meant two different things for each of us, I too pulled the sex off the table until things became more clear. That was the beginning of the end. Because after all if he was really into me, he wouldn't risk losing me to begin with.

 

I know I threw a bunch of conflicting scenarios at you. Take what you will and I hope something in between helps you.

 

I do think your anxiety is running the show a bit here. I will end with what I started with, that you are looking for him to reassure you, when you should be reassuring yourself that you have what it takes to put yourself out there, decipher the information at hand, proceed accordingly, know when to go, when to say no and know that no matter what you have what it takes to be ok. Because that IS what it takes to date.

 

In parting, I cringe recalling those early stages of dating. There is so much unknown. There is no way around it, other than to shore up your strength(s) and have some faith in yourself.

 

Good Luck!

[katrina1980]

^^reinvent's post -- very well said, succinct, to the point, spot on!

 

Cut and paste to your fridge worthy, as a daily affirmation!

[reinventmyself]

(((katrina)))

[akrngrl]

I see a few things going on here. You, yourself admit that you are still unsure at this time if this potential relationship has any legs. It's still in the discovery phase and it seems for you, you feel the need to lock him down before you decide if you are all in. Let me ask you, is that fair?

 

I get that putting a label on it provides you a safe place to let your guard down some and really get to core of this. But are you strong enough to figure this out without a written guarantee from him?

 

I've been on both sides. I totally get where you are coming from. Online dating is slippery slope and if you've done it more than once you have likely had the rug pulled out from under you. I get the desire for the guarantee. But I am going to challenge you to find that security you are seeking from within. Because after all, people will disappoint you. You can't control that. The added bonus is that inner confidence is very attractive and will change your dating experiences.

 

Secondly, I've been in his position. Thoroughly enjoying the process of getting to know someone, sexual exclusivity, no multi dating, looking for a relationship and pretty much having the same, sometimes ambiguous exchanges you've had.

 

I have had men try to pin me down at the very point you are at for labels, where is this going? and other such talks and as much as I may want the same exact thing, those conversations and need for reassurance early on cause me to back up and lose attraction.

 

I told someone once that it was much like planting a seed. You need to water it, nurture it and resist turning over the soil to see if it's growing. You do that too much you are likely to kill it. Depending on the tone, I might be giving vague answers too because I am not entirely certain at that point in time. That's coming from a place that is entirely fair and honest, from my prospective. I can't predict the future and I am giving them all I have to offer at that time.

 

I will flip over and admit the online activity you witnessed would throw me too. I don't know how I would handle it at this point and time. There is a lot of room for misunderstandings where this is concerned. But I will not have sex with someone who is still shopping, period.

And I only need to make that clear once. If the subject rears it's head again, I am out.

 

One time I did enter a new relationship with sexual exclusivity and when I realized the interpretation meant two different things for each of us, I too pulled the sex off the table until things became more clear. That was the beginning of the end. Because after all if he was really into me, he wouldn't risk losing me to begin with.

 

I know I threw a bunch of conflicting scenarios at you. Take what you will and I hope something in between helps you.

 

I do think your anxiety is running the show a bit here. I will end with what I started with, that you are looking for him to reassure you, when you should be reassuring yourself that you have what it takes to put yourself out there, decipher the information at hand, proceed accordingly, know when to go, when to say no and know that no matter what you have what it takes to be ok. Because that IS what it takes to date.

 

In parting, I cringe recalling those early stages of dating. There is so much unknown. There is no way around it, other than to shore up your strength(s) and have some faith in yourself.

 

Good Luck!

 

Very interesting points and I thank you for your perspective in seeing both sides!

 

I suppose I meant that I’m sure it has legs now, but it needs reassessing as things shift-neither of us know if it’ll have legs when he likely gets sent overseas.

 

I guess to me that’s the hard part. I don’t like to use “guarantee” because nothing really is, but I don’t know how an in limbo LDR (LDsorta dating someone) would look. Currently I’m not 100% sure it could be successful.

 

I doubt one day he’s gonna call up and be like “yeah let’s do this” when we’re not seeing each other and reduced to skype and an occasional text.

 

It feels strange for me to be all-in committed in that situation when not having that title (because it’s apparently so much more than a title for him). Not because I want to be on the dating sites finding someone else, but, for lack of a better term what’s the RTI in that event? If me or even him did meet someone else what do we say? “It’s complicated with a person who’s not around?”

 

It might be a bit selfish, and again I realize there are NO guarantees in a relationship, but not being in one feels even riskier for me to be spending all that money on travel because realistically I’ll always be going to him and I know I’m a good enough partner for someone to do that. Maybe my perspective needs to change and it likely is as I’m reading all these different outlooks, but my thought before diving into this forum was “a couple of thousand dollars is a lot to spend to get to someone who was -meh about being with me when I was readily available”. I understand now that he might not be “meh” and may be battling a lot of other issues, but that old view is still at the very back of my mind.

 

Again perhaps it’s a skewed view, but I don’t really see anything drastically building during and LDR, it’s more what you have beforehand and the moments you are together and then your plans to eventually close that gap. The LDR is mostly stagnant, and if what you had wasn’t stable before, it’ll crumble in that stagnation. I’m willing to take on other perspectives though, because I’m probably wrong.

 

A wildly future example that I’m not thinking about, but just kind of “is” for any man I’d meet or date that was long distance, but I wouldn’t do anything like follow along with someone from place to place unless I was married to them. Maybe that’s irrational, but I have a life, a job, a home and responsibilities right where I am (as does everyone) and I wouldn’t be willing to give up everything I’ve acquired and worked for for anything less than the ultimate partnership.

 

I suppose that’s why I wanted to get clear and be on the same page beforehand. Or not if that was the case, honestly either way I’m going to be okay. It’s the “maybe I could be, I need an unidentified amount of time to figure it out” that’s throwing me and the fact that I’m not the one to bring it up.

 

Part of me wishes I never had, but this stemmed from me thinking that he was lying/him lying about the dating apps. It’s morphed into a completely different issue, but I’m glad I did it now instead of at the end of the month because then this would have all been happening somewhat long distance.

[bluecastle]

Ain't this getting good?!

 

From where I sit you've just isolated a few parcels of baggage that are creating some pressure on the romance front, regardless of this man.

 

1. So you've been in some relationships where you've hung around through the "I don't know what I want" stuff, only to see them go off and get married. Instead of metabolizing that for what it is (you know, life) or in a way that is self-empowering (bullet dodged, bet those are some lousy marriages) you've metabolized it as a verdict on your worth (good, but not good enough).

 

As a result, a little part of your worth is now connected to a guy—not just this guy, but a guy—knowing what he wants and for that want to be you. You were, in shades, in your mind, "good, but not good enough" before you met him. (Personally, I partly blame "Sex and the City" for this, because the subtext of that show is that some very awesome women are good, but not good enough, unless they are wanted 4eva&eva by a man, but I digress...)

 

2. This fear of being a woman who has wasted years with nothing to show for it except "cool memories." That fear existed before you met him, when you swiped on him, when you first said hello to him, which is to say a little part of your animal subconscious started wondering (as you liked his smile, as things progressed he did nice thing x and y) if maybe this would be the thing that lessened that fear.

 

It is a totally understandable fear, of course. Talk to most humans, men and women, married and single, twentysomething or sixtysomething, and they'll probably admit they're often freaked out that they don't have much to show for this whole being alive thing. But better to remember that, before the dates, so you're not looking for the dates or dating (or even the teammate, should he materialize) to be the solution. (Heck, over time those big existential fears can become the basis for some great discussions, all the better if they're had in the bedroom, as heartbeats return to normal...)

 

I'm not sure how much we can ever really fix our own shyt in the classic sense of "fixing." Like, I can fix my motorcycle by replacing a spark plug or retuning the carburetor—and, presto, the broken machine is now fixed. Me and you? We're a lot more complicated than the bike. I don't even know how I work, not fully, and I'm pretty certain I never really will.

 

But, yeah, there's a lot of value in just recognizing our shyt. It gets demystified, loses power. Without it tugging us around, we go from feeling broken to feeling unique—empowered instead of disempowered—and we're more open to exploring what might be the hardest question of all: What is it, exactly, that we want? It's a hard one for a million reasons, not least because it changes with the wind. And sometimes, damnit, those winds are people. And sometimes, damnit, they want something or someone that is not us, even after they wanted us.

 

I'm being abstract. Apologies. I do that.

 

Pull back. Swipe around. Don't judge—not you, not him, not whatever you guy are. Not to get all yogic here, but one of my favorite things in yoga is when I'm contorted into some bizarre, painful shape and the teacher goes, "Just hold it for another breath. It's not as hard as you think. Now hold it for a another..." Something strange happens: it's still bizarre and painful, but somehow manageable, even kind of great, if only because I saw I could do something I thought I couldn't.

 

Friends with mild benefits sounds kind of great! Probably not a forever state, but a week? A month? You'll know when you want to get out of the shape. That's not time wasted.

 

And you know what a bunch of cool memories add up to, in the end? A very cool life.

[reinventmyself]

 

Friends with mild benefits sounds kind of great! Probably not a forever state, but a week? A month? You'll know when you want to get out of the shape. That's not time wasted.

 

And you know what a bunch of cool memories add up to, in the end? A very cool life.

 

And if this doesn't work out, what you take away is a clearer understanding of you do want.

-That overused saying `people come into your life for a reason'

 

Be open to what the experience is about to teach you. Try to live in the moment and resist forecasting into the future too much.

 

Stop the `I'm going to be an old spinster who gave up half her life over this'

 

Keep your feet on the ground, you are merely a few weeks in, so try to enjoy the process.

You will know when you know. And when you do trust yourself that you will act on it accordingly.

[akrngrl]

Ain't this getting good?!

 

From where I sit you've just isolated a few parcels of baggage that are creating some pressure on the romance front, regardless of this man.

 

1. So you've been in some relationships where you've hung around through the "I don't know what I want" stuff, only to see them go off and get married. Instead of metabolizing that for what it is (you know, life) or in a way that is self-empowering (bullet dodged, bet those are some lousy marriages) you've metabolized it as a verdict on your worth (good, but not good enough).

 

As a result, a little part of your worth is now connected to a guy—not just this guy, but a guy—knowing what he wants and for that want to be you. You were, in shades, in your mind, "good, but not good enough" before you met him. (Personally, I partly blame "Sex and the City" for this, because the subtext of that show is that some very awesome women are good, but not good enough, unless they are wanted 4eva&eva by a man, but I digress...)

 

2. This fear of being a woman who has wasted years with nothing to show for it except "cool memories." That fear existed before you met him, when you swiped on him, when you first said hello to him, which is to say a little part of your animal subconscious started wondering (as you liked his smile, as things progressed he did nice thing x and y) if maybe this would be the thing that lessened that fear.

 

It is a totally understandable fear, of course. Talk to most humans, men and women, married and single, twentysomething or sixtysomething, and they'll probably admit they're often freaked out that they don't have much to show for this whole being alive thing. But better to remember that, before the dates, so you're not looking for the dates or dating (or even the teammate, should he materialize) to be the solution. (Heck, over time those big existential fears can become the basis for some great discussions, all the better if they're had in the bedroom, as heartbeats return to normal...)

 

I'm not sure how much we can ever really fix our own shyt in the classic sense of "fixing." Like, I can fix my motorcycle by replacing a spark plug or retuning the carburetor—and, presto, the broken machine is now fixed. Me and you? We're a lot more complicated than the bike. I don't even know how I work, not fully, and I'm pretty certain I never really will.

 

But, yeah, there's a lot of value in just recognizing our shyt. It gets demystified, loses power. Without it tugging us around, we go from feeling broken to feeling unique—empowered instead of disempowered—and we're more open to exploring what might be the hardest question of all: What is it, exactly, that we want? It's a hard one for a million reasons, not least because it changes with the wind. And sometimes, damnit, those winds are people. And sometimes, damnit, they want something or someone that is not us, even after they wanted us.

 

I'm being abstract. Apologies. I do that.

 

Pull back. Swipe around. Don't judge—not you, not him, not whatever you guy are. Not to get all yogic here, but one of my favorite things in yoga is when I'm contorted into some bizarre, painful shape and the teacher goes, "Just hold it for another breath. It's not as hard as you think. Now hold it for a another..." Something strange happens: it's still bizarre and painful, but somehow manageable, even kind of great, if only because I saw I could do something I thought I couldn't.

 

Friends with mild benefits sounds kind of great! Probably not a forever state, but a week? A month? You'll know when you want to get out of the shape. That's not time wasted.

 

And you know what a bunch of cool memories add up to, in the end? A very cool life.

 

This is incredible. I love that I can come here and get unbiased advice and have people be like “well have you considered this?”

 

Pulls me out of my all or nothing state, which you’d think by now would be obsolete because I usually am single and with my head buried in a computer lol.

 

I’ve never seen Sex and the City, but I’ve stupidly googled enough articles to get that info haha. You are probably right, they could be terrible marriages as I only get the highlight reel of social media. My family is right there though to tell me “well you must have some super power because everyone leaves you and immediately after finds their forever partner”.

 

Yes and no. I guess I meant cool memories instead of a happy marriage haha. Ultimately I want to get married, which I suppose seems conflicting with being okay with a LDR, but lawd the thought of me having to live with someone and have them be around all. the. time is frightening right now. I suppose I always assumed if/when I met the right guy my desire to be with him would override my desire for space.

 

I’m going to keep where I am, which I feel might be a little pulled back. The nature of no more sex is very pulled back and I never really initiated texting anyway, but if we want to get real millennial I’m using marginally less kiss emoji faces and he in turn is as well lol.

 

I’m swiping for the sake of saying I’m swiping and because it’s available, but local options are tragic. I’ve been offered $200.00 for an hour, and someone has launched an attack on how I’m basically worthless since I have no wish to procreate lol. I keep screenshots in case I ever become a comedian one day [emoji23]

 

If anything new or noteworthy happens next week when we get together I’m sure I’ll update, but thank you so much again for all your insight and helping me realize my issues in this mess.

[bluecastle]

I see a few things going on here. You, yourself admit that you are still unsure at this time if this potential relationship has any legs. It's still in the discovery phase and it seems for you, you feel the need to lock him down before you decide if you are all in. Let me ask you, is that fair?

 

I get that putting a label on it provides you a safe place to let your guard down some and really get to core of this. But are you strong enough to figure this out without a written guarantee from him?

 

I've been on both sides. I totally get where you are coming from. Online dating is slippery slope and if you've done it more than once you have likely had the rug pulled out from under you. I get the desire for the guarantee. But I am going to challenge you to find that security you are seeking from within. Because after all, people will disappoint you. You can't control that. The added bonus is that inner confidence is very attractive and will change your dating experiences.

 

Secondly, I've been in his position. Thoroughly enjoying the process of getting to know someone, sexual exclusivity, no multi dating, looking for a relationship and pretty much having the same, sometimes ambiguous exchanges you've had.

 

I have had men try to pin me down at the very point you are at for labels, where is this going? and other such talks and as much as I may want the same exact thing, those conversations and need for reassurance early on cause me to back up and lose attraction.

 

I told someone once that it was much like planting a seed. You need to water it, nurture it and resist turning over the soil to see if it's growing. You do that too much you are likely to kill it. Depending on the tone, I might be giving vague answers too because I am not entirely certain at that point in time. That's coming from a place that is entirely fair and honest, from my prospective. I can't predict the future and I am giving them all I have to offer at that time.

 

I will flip over and admit the online activity you witnessed would throw me too. I don't know how I would handle it at this point and time. There is a lot of room for misunderstandings where this is concerned. But I will not have sex with someone who is still shopping, period.

And I only need to make that clear once. If the subject rears it's head again, I am out.

 

One time I did enter a new relationship with sexual exclusivity and when I realized the interpretation meant two different things for each of us, I too pulled the sex off the table until things became more clear. That was the beginning of the end. Because after all if he was really into me, he wouldn't risk losing me to begin with.

 

I know I threw a bunch of conflicting scenarios at you. Take what you will and I hope something in between helps you.

 

I do think your anxiety is running the show a bit here. I will end with what I started with, that you are looking for him to reassure you, when you should be reassuring yourself that you have what it takes to put yourself out there, decipher the information at hand, proceed accordingly, know when to go, when to say no and know that no matter what you have what it takes to be ok. Because that IS what it takes to date.

 

In parting, I cringe recalling those early stages of dating. There is so much unknown. There is no way around it, other than to shore up your strength(s) and have some faith in yourself.

 

Good Luck!

 

Is there a bow-down-in-admiration emoji?

 

Reinvient, you are seriously wise and special, whoever you are.

 

This is going on my fridge.

[reinventmyself]

. .ya'll made my day.

[katrina1980]

 

This is going on my fridge.

 

lol

 

…..

[bluecastle]

. .ya'll made my day.

 

Did we all—and I'm including you in this, AK—just make a cool memory together?

 

I think so.

 

Feeling grateful.

[reinventmyself]

This makes me recall a man I was dating. Everything I previously described. We were dating only each other and sexually exclusive. I would have preferred things to roll a little slower, but we were 6 weeks in and having a great time. At least that was my experience.

 

There wasn't anyone else on my radar and I looked forward to every time I saw him. He needed answers, he forecasted, he wanted labels.

This ran it's course because he couldn't trust the moment and get out of his head.

 

In the end I told him we were having two entirely different experiences. I was have great time, enjoying his company and excited to see where this would go, and in turn he was absolutely miserable because I didn't have a crystal ball, I couldn't predict the future 6 weeks in and I couldn't give him guarantees.

 

Ask me in a few more more weeks, then I need to put it in on paper. But until then. . .

[katrina1980]

This makes me recall a man I was dating. Everything I previously described. We were dating only each other and sexually exclusive. I would have preferred things to roll a little slower, but we were 6 weeks in and having a great time. At least that was my experience.

 

There wasn't anyone else on my radar and I looked forward to every time I saw him. He needed answers, he forecasted, he wanted labels.

This ran it's course because he couldn't trust the moment and get out of his head.

 

In the end I told him we were having two entirely different experiences. I was have great time, enjoying his company and excited to see where this would go, and in turn he was absolutely miserable because I didn't have a crystal ball, I couldn't predict the future 6 weeks in and I couldn't give him guarantees.

 

Ask me in a few more more weeks, then I need to put it in on paper. But until then. . .

 

Good golly, folks need to chill!

 

Not referring to you OP, but some people are just not cut out for dating, that's all there is to it.

 

They want/need insta-relationship to alleviate their anxiety, complete with a label, a title and a guarantee of where it's going, blah blah.

 

Problem is that need typically drives their partner in the opposite direction, just like what happened with you reinvent.

 

Which is really a shame since you did like him at first.

 

A real pity.

[bluecastle]

Good golly, folks need to chill!

 

Not referring to you OP, but some people are just not cut out for dating, that's all there is to it.

 

They want/need insta-relationship to alleviate their anxiety, complete with a label, a title and a guarantee of where it's going, blah blah.

 

Problem is that need typically drives their partner in the opposite direction, just like what happened with you reinvent.

 

Which is really a shame since you did like him at first.

 

A real pity.

 

Amen!

 

I have found myself in reinvent's shoes a lot. Her story reminded me of someone I was seeing, very briefly, over the summer, where after like nine dates she seemed to want all if it, now.

 

It made no sense. She lived on the other side of the country, was about to spend a month in Europe, and we'd just met, just started connecting. But she needed the crystal ball that I just didn't have.

 

I backed away, fast. Not the easiest choice, as she was stunning, compelling, the sex was extraordinary, and the whimsical corridor of my mind was already fantasizing about what we could be, down the line. But to me that kind of behavior just signals something unpalatable.

 

Confident as I may be, and much as I love to be fawned over, I just remember thinking: you do not want some label because of your feelings for me, but to feel better for yourself. Made me feel less like a person than a vessel to realize preexisting hopes and quell preexisting fears. I'm a pretty fit guy, but that was too much weight to imagine lifting.

 

I still think about her, too. She was great. But, yeah, no chill.

[akrngrl]

Amen!

 

I have found myself in reinvent's shoes a lot. Her story reminded me of someone I was seeing, very briefly, over the summer, where after like nine dates she seemed to want all if it, now.

 

It made no sense. She lived on the other side of the country, was about to spend a month in Europe, and we'd just met, just started connecting. But she needed the crystal ball that I just didn't have.

 

I backed away, fast. Not the easiest choice, as she was stunning, compelling, the sex was extraordinary, and the whimsical corridor of my mind was already fantasizing about what we could be, down the line. But to me that kind of behavior just signals something unpalatable.

 

Confident as I may be, and much as I love to be fawned over, I just remember thinking: you do not want some label because of your feelings for me, but to feel better for yourself. Made me feel less like a person than a vessel to realize preexisting hopes and quell preexisting fears. I'm a pretty fit guy, but that was too much weight to imagine lifting.

 

I still think about her, too. She was great. But, yeah, no chill.

 

I tend to agree as I’ve been in the space of lovebombing and I’m like “woah dude you don’t even know me”.

 

I’m not 100% sure why I want the title, I just keep thinking he’s exciting and great and I want to plan all these fun things and trips with him, I want to build towards something. When we were planning for vacation three months from now it just seemed like a given honestly lol. I guess I also don’t want to come back here and be like “it’s been 6 months and he still deflects about the -label”.

 

It’s the up and down of how long is too long to wait, because I am a rationalizer. I will convince myself “well we’re doing all the things couples do so it’s just the label that’s missing - it’s okay”. Like right now, if I never asked him, to me I’d think we were a couple. I guess I have a lower threshold for willing to pursue something though.

 

My max the last few years has been five dates before the glaring incompatibilities came out and I exit stage left. It sounds like he’s got less dating experience and has really only ever had relationships. So it could just be an experience difference. I’m well aware of my dealbreakers and I can spot them quick.

 

Aside from all this hubalub I’ve been posting about literally the only peculiar thing that comes to mind is that we never really talk about me. He’ll say he hopes my day is going well and all, but our conversations are largely about his job and travels. It’s interesting and something I find super cool so I want to know everything and ask questions accordingly. My stuff just doesn’t come up and if it does he responds with “oh that’s cool” and that’s pretty much it, never really asks anything.

 

I don’t really care and had to think real hard to even come up with it. Perhaps it’s a symptom of not wanting to get close, perhaps he just truly doesn’t care. It’s far from a dealbreaker because I like what I do enough that I don’t need to talk about it.

 

I don’t want to be the lady badgering for commitment with no chill. That’s not my style. Heck I would have preferred if he had brought it up-I’ve never asked someone to be my boyfriend before and after this probably never will lol. I’m glad I didn’t sit on feelings though. Old me would have and just let my mind run away. I’m making slow progress, but progress and all of your stories are helping immensely to see all the facets of different relationships and how people approach them.