Update & question on where to go from here

[akrngrl]

I am completely shocked that a potentially great relationship, could lead to anywhere, is now on the rocks because he logged into an app on his phone.

 

What do you KNOW?

1. You like him.

2. You just had a great discussion about maybe meeting his folks.

3. His location on an app has updated.

 

That’s it. That’s all you know. Everything else is just an assumption. A story you’ve created to terrorize yourself. So what if he logged on to his account? Maybe he was messaging someone back saying “sorry, not interested in our date anymore”. Maybe he logged in to see if you were on there? You could imagine a million scenarios. And you’ve even labeled him as a liar multiple times because of this!

 

I vote for delete YOUR app, because YOU want to focus on this relationship. Leave him be to do what HE wants to do. And if you both want the same thing, great. If not, then you know you were trying to put a round peg into a square hole and you can move on.

 

Such a tiny incident to make such a big deal of...

 

You’re right, I’ll own that-small thing to make a big deal of.

 

It was much easier to ask him about it and talk about everything than I thought. I don’t think anything got solved, or maybe it did and I’m just being dumb, but regardless it was easy.

[boltnrun]

Did he agree to be an official exclusive couple and delete his dating profile?

[akrngrl]

Did he agree to be an official exclusive couple and delete his dating profile?

 

He said he would look into why it updated and disable it. I got a wishy washy answer to the titles. I phrased it as “legitimate relationship” because I didn’t want him to confuse it since we are exclusively dating and exclusively intimate.

 

I got the sense that this has nothing to do with keeping his options open and everything to do with him. I don’t know the real reason, but it sounds like the anxiety of how much effort/investment an LDR is and the risk of it still not being enough (seems like it’s happened in the past). A big conversation about his fears of being fully committed, as in a legitimate relationship due to his profession, but he said he wants to be there and that this conversation didn’t mean he couldn’t get there-he had to work through some things.

 

Said he’d been kind of avoiding having to think about having to define us/what it was, but he was happy I brought it up if I was thinking about it and wanted me to be able to come to him about anything on my mind. He got glassy eyed at various points.

 

I listened and tried to remain logical. I said I really liked him and until he worked through his things and we had an answer that I wouldn’t be able to continue being sexual, for my own piece of mind. He was super understanding about it and mentioned that he still wanted to go out with me and continue spending time together.

 

Even typing it sounds like a load of bs, but sitting there with him for the few hours we were talking about it and I believed him. He’s admitted he’s not a great communicator and the fact that he sat there with me and didn’t seem uncomfortable to talk about things was a nice surprise.

 

We were still seriously discussing the vacation in a few months prior to this conversation and it seems as though we’re still communicating as usual and we still have plans for later this week.

[Batya33]

He is choosing his fears over being in a committed relationship with you. That's all it is. Many people have fears of "taking the plunge" but their connection to and feelings to the person are strong and they choose to be with the person instead of alone with their fears. I've lived it on both sides.

[akrngrl]

He is choosing his fears over being in a committed relationship with you. That's all it is. Many people have fears of "taking the plunge" but their connection to and feelings to the person are strong and they choose to be with the person instead of alone with their fears. I've lived it on both sides.

 

That’s understandable and I’ve been on both sides as well, but there have been times when it’s been brought up and I wasn’t prepared and did need to take a minute to sort things out.

 

He’s been texting me that he’s been thinking about everything nonstop all day/he feels like a disappointment for not having a better answer last night. We agreed to do dinner this week and he said he wants to share his thoughts with me and that he wants to be good to me and give it fair thought. There were some smiley faces/kissy faces and when I said I was cautiously optimistic he didn’t correct me.

 

I’m also being told that I’m selfish (by others, not him) if I don’t think further into it as in being ready to eventually pick up my life, etc. I’m not sure that it’s something I should be focusing on as that wouldn’t be until way later down the road, but I’m being told that I’m asking a lot of him in a decision and I have to be ready with my own.

[bluecastle]

I am completely shocked that a potentially great relationship, could lead to anywhere, is now on the rocks because he logged into an app on his phone.

 

What do you KNOW?

1. You like him.

2. You just had a great discussion about maybe meeting his folks.

3. His location on an app has updated.

 

That’s it. That’s all you know. Everything else is just an assumption. A story you’ve created to terrorize yourself. So what if he logged on to his account? Maybe he was messaging someone back saying “sorry, not interested in our date anymore”. Maybe he logged in to see if you were on there? You could imagine a million scenarios. And you’ve even labeled him as a liar multiple times because of this!

 

I vote for delete YOUR app, because YOU want to focus on this relationship. Leave him be to do what HE wants to do. And if you both want the same thing, great. If not, then you know you were trying to put a round peg into a square hole and you can move on.

 

Such a tiny incident to make such a big deal of...

 

SUCH an awesome post.

 

Just to challenge your thinking and feelings a bit, OP: My feeling here is that maybe you don't really know what you yet want out of this, and you're wanting him to offer something that provides you a safe space for remaining uncertain. You want him to be super sure so you can be semi-sure, minus the anxiety that stems from an app.

 

Like, I'm not getting the vibe here that, if he came to you and said he's all in, you and him 4eva, that you'd sigh and drift off into the clouds. No, I think you'd start thinking about his upcoming travels, how long it is till summer, how it would all look, your own need for independence, your past experiences with rushing in too fast and then feeling suffocated, and so on.

 

If any of that rings true, then all the anxiety around the app and location is perhaps partly a proxy for your own anxieties—not merely about his level of interest, but yours. I'd challenge you to own that part, on your own, rather than look for him to "step up" and offer something you're actually not sure you're ready for.

 

I hope that doesn't sound harsh. I just can't help but see, on a lot of threads here, a certain theme where women who radiate a lot of uncertainty themselves are devoting a lot of effort to analyzing uncertain men. The man is the wishy-washy one, the bs artist who is potentially "playing."

 

But maybe the gap between you and him is actually pretty narrow, and instead of being a source of tension can just be a fun place to explore—a lot more fun, really, if you just deleted the app or unmatched from him.

[akrngrl]

SUCH an awesome post.

 

Just to challenge your thinking and feelings a bit, OP: My feeling here is that maybe you don't really know what you yet want out of this, and you're wanting him to offer something that provides you a safe space for remaining uncertain. You want him to be super sure so you can be semi-sure, minus the anxiety that stems from an app.

 

Like, I'm not getting the vibe here that, if he came to you and said he's all in, you and him 4eva, that you'd sigh and drift off into the clouds. No, I think you'd start thinking about his upcoming travels, how long it is till summer, how it would all look, your own need for independence, your past experiences with rushing in too fast and then feeling suffocated, and so on.

 

If any of that rings true, then all the anxiety around the app and location is perhaps partly a proxy for your own anxieties—not merely about his level of interest, but yours. I'd challenge you to own that part, on your own, rather than look for him to "step up" and offer something you're actually not sure you're ready for.

 

I hope that doesn't sound harsh. I just can't help but see, on a lot of threads here, a certain theme where women who radiate a lot of uncertainty themselves are devoting a lot of effort to analyzing uncertain men. The man is the wishy-washy one, the bs artist who is potentially "playing."

 

But maybe the gap between you and him is actually pretty narrow, and instead of being a source of tension can just be a fun place to explore—a lot more fun, really, if you just deleted the app or unmatched from him.

 

Not harsh at all and I actually REALLY appreciate it because it seems pretty accurate.

 

I am definitely in a place where I want him to be really sure and that’s been all relationships now that I think about it. I’m not 100% on it being so that I can only be partially sure, but I’m definitely willing to consider it.

 

Mostly I know that I sit in a space myself, where I want it, but only as much as the other person does- their enthusiasm brings mine up if that makes sense and then if their words don’t match their actions, in the past-I’ve been really hurt by that, I’m much better now at being bummed, but not letting it consume me.

 

You’re 100% right. If he came at me like that I still wouldn’t drift into the clouds so to speak haha. I think the anxieties would then me more on me about me and “can I do this? Do I want this life? etc. Definitely still a little about what you’re saying with timelines and stuff but I think mostly I’d be worried about being a disappointment.

 

The life that I imagine this would be includes things that I have highly irrational fears of lol so it would be a lot of work on my part and I suppose work I’m only willing to do if someone is like “yes I pick you”. Unfortunately (or not) I’ve cultivated a life currently that those things aren’t pertinent enough in my every day that they’d ever need to be addressed otherwise. That’s something I have to own for myself, but like I said, it’s hard because I don’t encounter it.

 

I feel like I operate on a basis of things I “have” to do rather than things I “want” to do. I get put in a situation and I adapt as needed. Here is the situation and here are my options. I have a basic outline of what I want and my boundaries, but there’s a lot of room for flexibility.

 

I posted an update a bit back about how the conversation went last night/today and it seems I’ve gotten away from the initial dating app issue and onto other things, but this is all helping me articulate things I’ve known all along but couldn’t express correctly so I really appreciate the listening and the input.

[Wiseman2]

Who is telling you this nonsense? It's up to you to decide what this is and what you want and if you can handle his traveling, moving, temporary situation, etc. He is hemming and hawing only because he thought you understood the transient/temporary nature of this and may be wondering what's going on. However, you keep inviting him over and are intimate so it's up to you to decide what you want knowing what you know.

 

It seems you are in a struggle with yourself trying to define this. It may be exclusive dating, but it certainly has limitations in general and for the future in particular. Keep saying to yourself 'he is only here for work, he will move so enjoy it in the moment". All this has nothing to go with location settings on phones, dating app updates and certainly not this crazy accusation by whatever jerks told you that this is "selfish".

I’m also being told that I’m selfish (by others, not him). I’m being told that I’m asking a lot of him in a decision and I have to be ready with my own.

[Batya33]

That’s understandable and I’ve been on both sides as well, but there have been times when it’s been brought up and I wasn’t prepared and did need to take a minute to sort things out.

 

He’s been texting me that he’s been thinking about everything nonstop all day/he feels like a disappointment for not having a better answer last night. We agreed to do dinner this week and he said he wants to share his thoughts with me and that he wants to be good to me and give it fair thought. There were some smiley faces/kissy faces and when I said I was cautiously optimistic he didn’t correct me.

 

I’m also being told that I’m selfish (by others, not him) if I don’t think further into it as in being ready to eventually pick up my life, etc. I’m not sure that it’s something I should be focusing on as that wouldn’t be until way later down the road, but I’m being told that I’m asking a lot of him in a decision and I have to be ready with my own.

 

Please stop with the "I'm being told" -if you want to get married or be in an LTR with adult responsibilities you have to be confident in your decisions and have the advice have it's proper place. Of course people get scared - it's a question of how you react. Taking a minute is one thing and choosing fear over being with the other person is another. When my future husband asked me to get back together after 8 years apart -we'd been seriously dating back then - for the first minute or less I was scared and couldn't respond. Then I said YES! I remember saying something like "but what if it doesn't work out again" - because I was scared. I chose him over "scared".

 

If you are not willing to relocate I wouldn't date him. I knew when I got back together with my husband I'd likely have to relocate. And I accepted that from the word go. And we did relocate and almost relocated again this year.

[akrngrl]

Who is telling you this nonsense?

 

Some friends/family that I have told this particular situation (the needing time to work through things part before willing to be official, etc.) They launched into how it’s all about me and he’s probably wondering all the same things about me and if I’m willing to do whatever (I don’t believe that for a second-I still feel like it has to do with having a partner in general and the fear that someone’s mind could change-not about me specifically). They also said other things but it’s too ridiculous too even say lol.

 

It's up to you to decide what this is and what you want and if you can handle his traveling, moving, temporary situation, etc. He is hemming and hawing only because he thought you understood the transient/temporary nature of this and may be wondering what's going on. However, you keep inviting him over and are intimate so it's up to you to decide what you want knowing what you know.

 

Am I wrong for not knowing that answers immediately? Right now I look at things in stages. Not that I’m focusing on the nonsense that people in real life are telling me, but I have to see how the LDR goes first.

 

I’ve been in a small handful and some are okay and others the guy has totally dropped the ball and keeping in consistent contact (as much as possible) wasn’t on their priority list.

 

My personal boundary is I’d need more than a “yeah I’m ‘seeing’ a guy, but he’s not around.” If there wasn’t a chance of seeing him in the short time he’s away this first time I would have been like “okay let’s go about our lives and see where things are when you come back and if we’re still single we can explore this if we want to”. However we’ve discussed multiple times a trip for the both of us during that timeframe as well as me visiting him. This far he’s very much a man of his word so I don’t have much ground to not believe him.

[figureitout23]

Oh honey. PLEASE don’t bend yourself into a dangone pretzel because because someone romanticized wishy washy men.

 

I personally think the dating site updating is a symptom... east might have had a point about responders not paying enough attention before throwing down absolutes in the form of advice.

 

To me, the last thing you’re doing is being uneasy and unsure because of that website. You weren’t truly concerned about that. It’s his refusal to give any answer when it comes to commiting and the website is just your physical proof he’s still leaving his options open.

 

Rainbows and lollipops, he might decide he wants a relationship after being asked about it 3 times, me personally? If you can’t tell me where your heads at from the start, no thanks. I mean. I get that we all date differently, but look how quickly the blame is placed on you because the man is being a flip flop.

 

Oh just relax

 

Quit being controlling ( apparently from friends)

 

Don’t ruin a good thing! ( apparently simply having a man is a ‘good thing’ even if you want completely different things)

 

 

In all this advice do you notice your voice is stripped away? Your needs and wants?

 

Girlfriend... there are too many men in the world for you to beg one to be with you and the fact that you’re being advised to keep begging...

[akrngrl]

Please stop with the "I'm being told" -if you want to get married or be in an LTR with adult responsibilities you have to be confident in your decisions and have the advice have it's proper place. Of course people get scared - it's a question of how you react. Taking a minute is one thing and choosing fear over being with the other person is another. When my future husband asked me to get back together after 8 years apart -we'd been seriously dating back then - for the first minute or less I was scared and couldn't respond. Then I said YES! I remember saying something like "but what if it doesn't work out again" - because I was scared. I chose him over "scared".

 

If you are not willing to relocate I wouldn't date him. I knew when I got back together with my husband I'd likely have to relocate. And I accepted that from the word go. And we did relocate and almost relocated again this year.

 

Thank you Batya. I definitely understand, and it sounds like he’s going to give me his thoughts/answer this week as he’s been thinking about it nonstop. Takes my question of “how long do I give him” off the table. That’s why I was fine with a slight pause. He had no idea I was bringing it up and I’d much rather have sincere thought put into it than a quick decision that he may question later.

 

I definitely don’t want someone who chooses fear over me, especially in a situation where I’m basically afraid of everything (lol) and having to choose them over that.

 

Relocating in general isn’t the issue, it’s just never having a stable place-if I chose to always go with him-it’s living in hotel rooms or I guess renting places if you’re somewhere long enough for a lease. There are some men and women (wives and husbands) that live in one place and then the partner is just off wherever and they travel to meet or travel back and forth to each other.

[Wiseman2]

It sounds like a LDR is not what you want. They are very difficult and as you know, rarely work out. Why not see how this goes and skip the whole "future" contemplation since you know you don't want "seeing a guy who's not around".

 

I have to see how the LDR goes first.

 

I’d need more than a “yeah I’m ‘seeing’ a guy, but he’s not around.”

[akrngrl]

It sounds like a LDR is not what you want. They are very difficult and as you know, rarely work out. Why not see how this goes and skip the whole "future" contemplation since you know you don't want "seeing a guy who's not around".

 

Sorry for the misunderstanding, I meant if things weren’t official. Like how people use the term “seeing” when they’re in that weird limbo state of almost relationship. I’d want to say “my boyfriend is over in xyz”. Seems so trivial and for most it’s probably just a matter of semantics, but for whatever reason that’s what I’d need to feel secure and like we were both in it together.

[akrngrl]

To me, the last thing you’re doing is being uneasy and unsure because of that website. You weren’t truly concerned about that. It’s his refusal to give any answer when it comes to commiting and the website is just your physical proof he’s still leaving his options open.

 

Rainbows and lollipops, he might decide he wants a relationship after being asked about it 3 times, me personally? If you can’t tell me where your heads at from the start, no thanks. I mean. I get that we all date differently, but look how quickly the blame is placed on you because the man is being a flip flop.

 

I agree. The dating app location update freakout on my part was because he had volunteered that he’d already hidden them. I was admittedly preemptively jumping to conclusions based on things like that happening in the past.

 

One thing upon reflection I do find strange is when I brought this up the other night and he said he was happy I did and was wondering when it would come up. In my mind I was being a nag because he had JUST told me he’d hid his profiles the week before when I brought up the whole “what are you looking for” bit.

 

I thought these were essentially two of the same conversation, but he reacted as this was the first time we were seriously considering it. Maybe because the first time was more general terms and this time was more about “us” specifically. I should have inquired but I was so hyper focused on making sure I said what I needed to say that I didn’t even think about it right then and there.

 

I have to say I am interested in what he has to say though because as I said it was made with smiley faces and such and he was saying like “there are so many things I want to show you”.

 

I may be putting my foot in my mouth, but it doesn’t seem to be going the route of us sitting down for dinner and him being like “I thought about it and I can’t give you what you want”. It’s anyone’s guess though. I’ll just have to see how the chips land.

[bluecastle]

I think you're getting a lot of good advice on here, in terms of turning the prism around.

 

I particularly liked what FiO said about losing your voice, which I think is kind of connected to what you offered in response to my post—the way you mirror the enthusiasm (or lack thereof) of another. There are real limitations to mirroring, because you're essentially allowing someone else to set the tone rather than knowing your own level, seeing if they can meet it, and moving forward (or out) accordingly.

 

Your situation reminds me a bit of someone I was seeing a million years ago. We met, hung, started sleeping together. Dinners, dancing, baseball games. Fun, casual. We were both very much on the same page early on—just enjoying it. After maybe a month she asked me where, you know, my head was at. I was honest: I was enjoying it, not sleeping with anyone else, but wasn't in a rush to be in a relationship. Wasn't against it, but wasn't pressed.

 

She told me she felt similarly. In fact, had been sleeping with someone else, which she didn't offer up in some gamey way. Sexual exclusivity has never mattered much to me, especially early on, and you'll have to trust that I'm about the least jealous person you'll ever meet. Where we differed is the pace at which we were opening up to the potential of a relationship; she told me she really liked our connection, hoped that's where it was going. So she was genuinely "cool" with where things were—for herself, not in terms of waiting for me to step up—but that cool had a shelf life.

 

Anyhow, we proceeded with things as they were—good times, etc.—and then after a few more weeks she asked me again what was up. My response was the same. I was a bit scared of being in something, no two ways about it. But at that point she'd opened more, moved to a different level—she did not share my fears, didn't want to coddle them at her expense, would be pretending to be cool if we stayed the course. She ended it. Cordial, no drama. She knew, then, that anxiety was around the corner and that nothing good would come, for either of us, if we couldn't turn that corner on the same level. The gap between us would make us both too anxious for the connection to expand.

 

She wasn't mirroring me, basically, and nor was I mirroring her. We were being honest—about where we connected and, alas, where we didn't. Guess I just share this to encourage you to really know your own level, rather than try to get someone to do or say the thing that makes it clear. Because I don't think it ever quite works like that.

 

In this case, it's really only you who can say what's really going on inside yourself, in your spirit. If you want a guy who isn't wobbly—well, this doesn't sound like your guy. If you need a guy to be the sturdier one, the more sure one, so you can gingerly step into the space while feeling safe—ditto. If you're able to be secure in not quite knowing what's what yourself, able to find some common ground in feeling it out—well, then there might be some room to explore.

 

Dating anxieties are funny things. Sometimes they sabotage us, sometimes they're our gut telling us what we don't want to hear. Still, at the end of the day anxieties are kind of toxic, and sometimes dealing with them ourselves means not engaging with people who, for whatever reason, stir them.

[akrngrl]

I think you're getting a lot of good advice on here, in terms of turning the prism around.

 

I particularly liked what FiO said about losing your voice, which I think is kind of connected to what you offered in response to my post—the way you mirror the enthusiasm (or lack thereof) of another. There are real limitations to mirroring, because you're essentially allowing someone else to set the tone rather than knowing your own level, seeing if they can meet it, and moving forward (or out) accordingly.

 

Your situation reminds me a bit of someone I was seeing a million years ago. We met, hung, started sleeping together. Dinners, dancing, baseball games. Fun, casual. We were both very much on the same page early on—just enjoying it. After maybe a month she asked me where, you know, my head was at. I was honest: I was enjoying it, not sleeping with anyone else, but wasn't in a rush to be in a relationship. Wasn't against it, but wasn't pressed.

 

She told me she felt similarly. In fact, had been sleeping with someone else, which she didn't offer up in some gamey way. Sexual exclusivity has never mattered much to me, especially early on, and you'll have to trust that I'm about the least jealous person you'll ever meet. Where we differed is the pace at which we were opening up to the potential of a relationship; she told me she really liked our connection, hoped that's where it was going. So she was genuinely "cool" with where things were—for herself, not in terms of waiting for me to step up—but that cool had a shelf life.

 

Anyhow, we proceeded with things as they were—good times, etc.—and then after a few more weeks she asked me again what was up. My response was the same. I was a bit scared of being in something, no two ways about it. But at that point she'd opened more, moved to a different level—she did not share my fears, didn't want to coddle them at her expense, would be pretending to be cool if we stayed the course. She ended it. Cordial, no drama. She knew, then, that anxiety was around the corner and that nothing good would come, for either of us, if we couldn't turn that corner on the same level. The gap between us would make us both too anxious for the connection to expand.

 

She wasn't mirroring me, basically, and nor was I mirroring her. We were being honest—about where we connected and, alas, where we didn't. Guess I just share this to encourage you to really know your own level, rather than try to get someone to do or say the thing that makes it clear. Because I don't think it ever quite works like that.

 

In this case, it's really only you who can say what's really going on inside yourself, in your spirit. If you want a guy who isn't wobbly—well, this doesn't sound like your guy. If you need a guy to be the sturdier one, the more sure one, so you can gingerly step into the space while feeling safe—ditto. If you're able to be secure in not quite knowing what's what yourself, able to find some common ground in feeling it out—well, then there might be some room to explore.

 

Dating anxieties are funny things. Sometimes they sabotage us, sometimes they're our gut telling us what we don't want to hear. Still, at the end of the day anxieties are kind of toxic, and sometimes dealing with them ourselves means not engaging with people who, for whatever reason, stir them.

 

I am! That’s why I continue to respond here because I feel like it’s easier for strangers to call me out than perhaps people in my real life. My real life clearly isn’t giving me good advice lol.

 

It’s interesting that you say that, because reading it, I agree and it’s a funny thing that I never saw the correlation between my mirroring and it being limiting. I wouldn’t even know how to begin to get passed that and how to stand alone in my feelings when they’re so clearly tied to how the other person feels. I tend to let them set the tone and follow accordingly. It’s always kept me from mostly overinvesting and what not.

 

My one good friend who I value her opinion and is far wiser than I am noted that “you’re both a little scared and that’s okay, you both might need a little time to figure out the pace and space.” I’m so focused on the present-here and now in this space, the way things have been going, I genuinely really like him and want to pursue something with him. I don’t know what my feelings will be when he leaves and it could end up not being for me, but I’m not operating my decision from there, but from how things are currently.

 

I’m not sure how it would look if we weren’t both 100% into it and he was more wobbly, but maybe we’re both wobbly in different places. I can’t speak to his mind, but his reservations seemed to stem from his future career and how that would look and like I’ve said, I haven’t thought about that yet.

 

To me like I’ve mentioned, if we agree based on what we have now to be an official relationship, then I will grow and adapt to fit the future because that’s the situation and I’m good at navigating situations that I’m in. I’m not great at weighing the options for situations and seeing what one would work best for me in a scenario such as this.

 

Ideally, this situation is probably pretty crummy, but also I’ve never made it this far with someone with literally no complaints about their character or how they’ve treated me.

 

From another perspective, I’m used to being alone. If that wasn’t the case I’m sure I’d be more prone to wanting the typical lifestyle that comes with most relationships: living together, seeing each other all the time, etc. I always imagined that when I found the “right” person I’d want to be with them more than I’d want to be by myself, but I can’t say that for sure since I’ve never been placed in that position.

 

So from where I’m sitting, the only thing that changes for me as far as an LDR is I get hours of my life back not scrolling through dating profiles and forcing myself on mediocre coffee meets. I also know I have someone that’s my teammate and yes, that cares about me. My life remains the same, and even though my alone life is very different from my “with someone” life, I like both. I’ve obviously had more time alone though so that’s what just comes naturally and tend to lean towards.

 

Definitely agree about toxic anxiety. I’ve largely built my life around it in general lol. Probably what keeps me so in the mindset of “I need my alone time” even when I have been with someone.

[katrina1980]

You sound very much like me akrngrl. I tend to “mirror” as well (although not sure if that is the correct word), as long as I am comfortable doing so, comfortable with the pace and the tone.

 

If it gets to the point I am not, I leave, which I have done too, once or twice.

 

I call it being open and flexible versus rigidly holding tightly to certain standards and arbitrary rules re how a relationship is “supposed” to be. I tend to dislike rules, and I also tend to dislike conventional relationships, which is probably why I am so easily able to adapt.

 

So I remain open and flexible to the always changing nuances, again, as long as I am comfortable doing so.

 

That is not to say I don’t have certain standards and boundaries, I most certainly do, but when it concerns the pace of the RL, commitment and the like, I realize that everyone’s pace is different and I have also learned through experience that a man moves towards commitment differently from women. They need time to grow attached, develop trust.

 

So I allow him that time and space, instead of pushing (which is not my nature anyway and never has been) to move closer to me at a pace that he is comfortable with, which being as flexible and open as I am, works for me too.

 

I don’t apologize for any of this, it has worked very well for me in my relationships, including my current. It took us awhile (almost three months) to become exclusive, which was not the norm for me; I was used to men pushing for exclusivity early on, which I came to realize after ending a very intense six year RL, dating casually for a time, and then dating my boyfriend, that rigidly adhering to that standard was very stifling for me.

 

I prefer the openness, the freeness, in fact I will be moving overseas in two weeks to take a contract job for a year, and my bf and I are actually discussing keeping our RL open during that time.

 

He will come visit when he can, but neither of us is holding the other to strict exclusivity during this time, yet we will still remain quite committed to each other.

 

This was a mutual decision, one I am quite comfortable with and don't feel threatened by it in the least! Neither does he.

 

Yes quite unconventional, and we shall see how it goes, but there is so much trust and love between us, I have no doubt and quite confident that everything is going to work out just fine.

 

Anyway, you do you of course, I just wanted to say that I understand where your head is at and it’s OKAY.

[Batya33]

OP -be careful about talking yourself into being comfortable with things not being "conventional" as if that's a bad word - if it is a bad word to you, cool - but I wouldn't talk yourself into justifying his hesitation with "well I'm used to being alone anyway so his wanting to wait is for the best". My dear friend abhors conventional relationships at this point after her 20 year marriage - and in her case the guy she dated after her marriage wanted more so he left her.

 

It's fine not to subscribe to the typical time frame of traditional dating relationships/relationships and also fine to be very honest with yourself about what your personal values, standards and boundaries are -some may be consistent with what's traditional, some may not - just don't let someone else's "fears" sway you into giving up your values and standards. When i've done that or considered doing that it's been a big mistake. Same with what "free" means to you. For me personally I felt much more freedom once I was in an exclusive relationship leading to marriage -I was free to stop looking to date, spending my sparse free time trying to meet potential matches, free from some of the stress and anxiety of the ticking clock, etc.

[katrina1980]

I agree with Bat, which is why at the end of my post, I said "you do you."

 

What's right for one person, may not be right for another (in this case you), my only point in posting what I did was to say I understand your uncertainty and ambivalence right now, and that it's okay.

 

Take your time, eventually it will all come together, these things usually do.

 

In the meantime, have fun, enjoy each other, enjoy the relationship and let it unfold naturally, organically, the way it's meant to.

 

Try to not stress about it, as that will thwart the natural process.

[akrngrl]

You sound very much like me akrngrl. I tend to “mirror” as well (although not sure if that is the correct word), as long as I am comfortable doing so, comfortable with the pace and the tone.

 

If it gets to the point I am not, I leave, which I have done too, once or twice.

 

I call it being open and flexible versus rigidly holding tightly to certain standards and arbitrary rules re how a relationship is “supposed” to be. I tend to dislike rules, and I also tend to dislike conventional relationships, which is probably why I am so easily able to adapt.

 

So I remain open and flexible to the always changing nuances, again, as long as I am comfortable doing so.

 

That is not to say I don’t have certain standards and boundaries, I most certainly do, but when it concerns the pace of the RL, commitment and the like, I realize that everyone’s pace is different and I have also learned through experience that a man moves towards commitment differently from women. They need time to grow attached, develop trust.

 

So I allow him that time and space, instead of pushing (which is not my nature anyway and never has been) to move closer to me at a pace that he is comfortable with, which being as flexible and open as I am, works for me too.

 

I don’t apologize for any of this, it has worked very well for me in my relationships, including my current. It took us awhile (almost three months) to become exclusive, which was not the norm for me; I was used to men pushing for exclusivity early on, which I came to realize after ending a very intense six year RL, dating casually for a time, and then dating my boyfriend, that rigidly adhering to that standard was very stifling for me.

 

I prefer the openness, the freeness, in fact I will be moving overseas in two weeks to take a contract job for a year, and my bf and I are actually discussing keeping our RL open during that time.

 

He will come visit when he can, but neither of us is holding the other to strict exclusivity during this time, yet we will still remain quite committed to each other.

 

This was a mutual decision, one I am quite comfortable with and don't feel threatened by it in the least! Neither does he.

 

Yes quite unconventional, and we shall see how it goes, but there is so much trust and love between us, I have no doubt and quite confident that everything is going to work out just fine.

 

Anyway, you do you of course, I just wanted to say that I understand where your head is at and it’s OKAY.

 

Thank you! I feel like you articulated most of how I feel better than I can.

 

Flexible is a good way to describe it! I’m so type A that it doesn’t seem like me, but it is. In my own space I’m basically a hermit and unilaterally focused on my jobs and I LOVE that and have no desire to change it-for when I’m alone.

 

With someone though I take an interest in their hobbies (breweries, concerts, etc.) because those are things I’d never seek out on my own. I feel like that comes across as depending on someone else, but it’s not-more like I don’t want people sitting around me when I work lol.

 

I feel like there may be a lot of things I’ve never had to/had the option of considering. For example you brought up the open relationship, and if I was fully committed and had more time invested in a partner where I had more security in that we were still committed to each other- that might be something I’d be willing to explore. Same with this traveling life-heck no if I’m on my own, I don’t even want to leave my house most days lol, but something about having someone that’s into it and wants to share that experience makes it seem fun and appealing [emoji23].

 

I haven’t had the strength in the past to give that needed space you’re able to give, but I’ve also only had partners that were terrible communicators and this is literally the first situation in my adult life where I can tell when I’m operating from a place of anxiety.

 

On the one hand I get so worked up on what to do if he says no, he’s not on board and then I’m like “wait a minute, you’ll be fine either way and you can probably think of 10 reasons why this LDR wouldn’t have worked anyway.” And that calms me down. It’s amazing what a change of mindset can do!

[akrngrl]

OP -be careful about talking yourself into being comfortable with things not being "conventional" as if that's a bad word - if it is a bad word to you, cool - but I wouldn't talk yourself into justifying his hesitation with "well I'm used to being alone anyway so his wanting to wait is for the best". My dear friend abhors conventional relationships at this point after her 20 year marriage - and in her case the guy she dated after her marriage wanted more so he left her.

 

It's fine not to subscribe to the typical time frame of traditional dating relationships/relationships and also fine to be very honest with yourself about what your personal values, standards and boundaries are -some may be consistent with what's traditional, some may not - just don't let someone else's "fears" sway you into giving up your values and standards. When i've done that or considered doing that it's been a big mistake. Same with what "free" means to you. For me personally I felt much more freedom once I was in an exclusive relationship leading to marriage -I was free to stop looking to date, spending my sparse free time trying to meet potential matches, free from some of the stress and anxiety of the ticking clock, etc.

 

Thanks Batya! I meant conventional as in not LDR. With all he said he’s been thinking about and has thoughts he wants to share with me I’m hoping to have an answer the next time we’re together so there’s not much waiting.

[katrina1980]

 

I haven’t had the strength in the past to give that needed space you’re able to give, but I’ve also only had partners that were terrible communicators and this is literally the first situation in my adult life where I can tell when I’m operating from a place of anxiety.

 

On the one hand I get so worked up on what to do if he says no, he’s not on board and then I’m like “wait a minute, you’ll be fine either way and you can probably think of 10 reasons why this LDR wouldn’t have worked anyway.” And that calms me down. It’s amazing what a change of mindset can do!

 

These feelings are all due to your anxiety imo, but why? Have you thought about why you feel so anxious with "him"?

 

For me, I don't deal with anxiety well (who does?), however I am okay with a bit of uncertainty in the early stages, but tbh it didn't cause me much anxiety, not with my current boyfriend anyway. With others yes, but there was a reason for that, they weren't the right fit for me, nor was I for them.

 

Anyway why did I have little to no anxiety with my current? Because I had (have) faith and trust in our connection which we both felt from the get go.

 

We didn't need to "define" anything, it was irrelevant. We didn't need to.

 

When I have faith and trust in that, it allows me to "let go" a bit and simply "got with the flow" as they say, not stress about "where it's going" or "what it means" or need to define anything. It also allows the RL to breathe and progress at a natural organic state.

 

Bottom line, it's all about TRUST in yourself, in him, in the connection you have established together.

 

Anxiety is the antitheses of that. It's the root of all that is bad or wrong in a developing RL, and it can manifest in some very detrimental ways that have been known to destroy a blossoming relationship.

 

It causes people to push, have a need to "define," know where it's going, what it means, etc etc, prematurely, all in an effort too alleviate their own anxiety, but it ends up doing the exact opposite in many cases. Pushing their partners away.

 

So, if this were me, I would explore where this anxiety stems from.

 

Is it your nature? Or is your connection with each other lacking somehow? I am not referring to how much time you're spending together, or how much you communicate. The connection between a couple is intangible, it just exists.

 

Re your anxiety, there is a reason you're feeling that, unless you have some sort of anxiety disorder, which is an entirely different thing. So again, best to explore that.

 

Again, I realize my attitude is quite unconventional, so take with a pinch of salt if you want.

 

But you said you related to my earlier post, so I thought I'd share more thoughts in the hope it might provide more clarity into your own situation.

[akrngrl]

These feelings are all due to your anxiety imo, but why? Have you thought about why you feel so anxious with "him"?

 

For me, I don't deal with anxiety well (who does?), however I am okay with a bit of uncertainty in the early stages, but tbh it didn't cause me much anxiety, not with my current boyfriend, anyway.

 

Why? Because I had (have) faith and trust in our connection which we both felt from the get go.

 

We didn't need to "define" anything, it was irrelevant. We didn't need to.

 

When I have faith and trust in that, it allows me to "let go" a bit and simply "got with the flow" as they say, not stress about "where it's going" or "what it means" or need to define anything. It also allows the RL to breathe and progress at a natural organic state.

 

Bottom line, it's all about TRUST in yourself, in him, in the connection you have established together.

 

Anxiety is the antitheses of that. It's the root of all that is bad or wrong in a developing RL, and it can manifest in some very detrimental ways that have been known to destroy a blossoming relationship.

 

It causes people to push, have a need to "define," know where it's going, and what it mans, all in an effort too alleviate their own anxiety, but it ends up doing the opposite in many cases.

 

So, if this were me, I would explore where this anxiety stems from.

 

Is it your nature? Or is your connection with each other lacking somehow?

 

It's not existing for no reason, unless you have some sort of anxiety disorder, which is an entirely different thing.

 

I’m fairly certain I have an anxiety disorder haha which makes it difficult to tell when my gut is like “Red flag red flag” or when it’s literally just being a jerk.

 

I get what you’re saying about the connection and even though that’s not where my mind would go to I see how it’s plausible and would even consider adapting that mindset.

 

In my mind, I explained it to him like having a teammate. I want someone that’s all in with me and that largely entails the title for me in this situation (it’s varied for others). It seems trivial, but he’s no stranger to long term relationships and if I’m going to be doing all of these important things with him, to not be considered his girlfriend when introducing me to important people in his life, it kind of just seems like “I really like you, just not enough.”

 

My boundary always was that if he leaves and we’re not official, then he leaves a single man. I said I wouldn’t sit in a wishy washy space without that commitment.

 

We even discussed what a relationship meant/looked like because I know people can have very different ideas-we both agreed it’s what we’ve got going on, except the dating sites would be permanently deleted and we’d use the bf/gf title. So to me that’s not a huge jump and if he’s not okay with that it kind of drives home the whole “good, but not good enough” bit. The problem with me being flexible is that someone makes a valid point and I’m like “oh okay, yeah I see that, when you look at it that way....” and I’ve been known to amend my wants if they’re not basically carved in Stone (some of them are lol).

 

I’m not used to being in this space of vulnerability, and I’ve made my boundaries clear to myself before and I guess now just the thought of having to act on them and potentially walk away is a scary thought.

 

I was fine all day and thoughts just started ruminating and I began overthinking out of no where. I’m doing my best to acknowledge it, but not let it have power over me and let it pass.

[katrina1980]

akr, I think we all want someone who is "all in" and a "teammate," the question is how soon should we expect this from our partners?

 

In reading a bit of your previous thread, you've been dating a little over one month? On December 1st you had had four dates, so is that a safe assumption?

 

To me, that is very early, too early to be bringing any of this up imo, although I realize many people think it's important and have a need to know, so not gonna judge you on that, if that's what you need.

 

I hesitate to give more of my thoughts as you already know what my attitude is, except to say, again, you just have to do what's right for you, what you're comfortable with.

 

If you're not comfortable with allowing him the space and time to move towards you at his own pace, you need the relationship defined and to be known as his "girlfriend," then that is certainly your prerogative.

 

However, I certainly wouldn't call it him being wishy-washy or "wobbly" as bluecastle defined, or him deeming you "not good enough," just because he may not be where you are at this early stage in the game. Not quite sure where that negative mindset is coming from.

 

Again it's only been a little over one month, or even if it's two months, that is still relatively early.

 

But again this just my personal mindset based on what's comfortable for me, how I conduct my relationships and what works for me and my partners, specifically my current boyfriend and how we got to where we are now.

 

Good luck!!