Update & question on where to go from here

[akrngrl]

People can be sexually monogamous to avoid STDS and not be committed emotionally or in a relationship.

 

True, but that’s not quite the way our conversation went. It was more based on most maybe all of his experiences he’d been in a relationship with the person.

[katrina1980]

>>To me this is the slowest (yet most comfortable) pace things have ever evolved at, but maybe I’m still jumping too much too soon.

 

Wow, I am really confused now.

 

If you're comfortable, in fact most comfortable you've ever felt, what's the problem again?

 

Why this thread at all let alone 15 pages?

 

What am I missing?

[akrngrl]

>>To me this is the slowest (yet most comfortable) pace things have ever evolved at, but maybe I’m still jumping too much too soon.

 

Wow, I am really confused now.

 

If you're comfortable (with the pace), in fact most comfortable you've ever felt, what's the problem again?

 

I meant in terms of dates and communication. I don’t feel like I’ve been lovebombed or ignored or like were overly inserting ourselves into each other’s lives. The dating app debacle made me realize that I wanted more which seemed logical to me in the sequence and pace we’ve been going at. I feel like if I wasn’t ready I probably wouldn’t have reacted the way I did or felt how I did. Usually something sketchy like that is in top of other yellow flags that I’ve been holding at bay and I’m all “thanks but no thanks”.

[boltnrun]

No, I do not. How would I find that out though?

 

Just ask.

 

How is that a difficult question? You aren't asking FOR anything, you just want to know if he's dating anyone else.

 

It's a yes or no question. If he gives you a paragraphs long answer or won't answer at all, that would be your answer.

 

Would you continue dating him if he's dating others?

[akrngrl]

Just ask.

 

How is that a difficult question? You aren't asking FOR anything, you just want to know if he's dating anyone else.

 

It's a yes or no question. If he gives you a paragraphs long answer or won't answer at all, that would be your answer.

 

Would you continue dating him if he's dating others?

 

He’s already said he wasn’t dating others, meeting others or looking to meet people. I thought you meant if I couldn’t take him at his word.

[akrngrl]

Would you continue dating him if he's dating others?

 

Now no because he would have lied about it

[figureitout23]

No, I do not. How would I find that out though?

 

You stop being afraid that basic communication will scare him away and accept the fact that communication only scares away people who weren’t looking at you seriously to begin with. It’s kinda like the posts from women who sleep with a man on the first date and wonder if she ‘ruined her chances’ many men have stated, my intentions don’t change just because I got laid.

 

I don’t think basic communication scares anyone away, I just don’t. Coming on too strong or needy or allowing anxiety to run the show WILL chase someone away please don’t get me wrong that defdinetely does happen,but basic questions especially about your sexual and at this point emotional heath? It’s in your best interest to know wouldn’t you say?

 

Can I ask what horribly embarrassing thing you did was and if that’s at all correlated to all this?

[boltnrun]

He’s already said he wasn’t dating others, meeting others or looking to meet people. I thought you meant if I couldn’t take him at his word.

 

OK, was that a recent update? Because I remember you wrote previously that he said he wasn't dating anyone "in this area".

 

But if he clarified that he isn't dating anyone else in your area or anywhere else, then that's promising.

[akrngrl]

You stop being afraid that basic communication will scare him away and accept the fact that communication only scares away people who weren’t looking at you seriously to begin with. It’s kinda like the posts from women who sleep with a man on the first date and wonder if she ‘ruined her chances’ many men have stated, my intentions don’t change just because I got laid.

 

I don’t think basic communication scares anyone away, I just don’t. Coming on too strong or needy or allowing anxiety to run the show WILL chase someone away please don’t get me wrong that defdinetely does happen,but basic questions especially about your sexual and at this point emotional heath? It’s in your best interest to know wouldn’t you say?

 

Can I ask what horribly embarrassing thing you did was and if that’s at all correlated to all this?

 

Oh I agree. I thought it was in reference to me not taking him at his word when he’s said multiple times in various ways that he’s not dating, meeting, looking to date/meet others. I fully believe he’s got some battle within himself and it has nothing to do with other women.

 

Sure! I don’t believe so though, he was super nice and understanding. Basically a large group of us went on an overnight trip. I was initially hesitant because of my general anxiety and needing an escape route, not wanting to show that side of me, etc, etc. I went because I didn’t want it to hold me back and most of the time I worry for nothing.

 

Nope. I had a mild panic attack and excused myself from the gathering and hid in our room for about an hour and half. Just kept telling him to enjoy himself and I was being dumb, but he was pretty concerned. I pulled it together and joined the event, but when it ended it came back.

 

We ended up having to go out to get some snacks for me (He positively insisted that he was coming and not letting me wander the streets alone). Yes very gentlemanly, but in that moment all I could think was “I’m ruining this and literally dying alone in an ally is preferable to him having to see me in this state especially if it gets worse”. I said something like “congrats you’ve seen me at my worst haha” even though it was nothing near how bad they usually get, but man was I spooked.

 

In general that’s why I don’t really ~do things. I never want to be the reason other people miss out or make someone leave because I can’t hang and when I can’t hang, I can’t hang hard haha. It’s embarrassing and I was mortified and he was the first person to really see that in any capacity. Like I said it was mild (I was able to sit on the bed like a rational person) with just the rapid heart rate and shaking, but I was afraid it would escalate to the full blown sweating and pacing around like a lunatic (super great early impression).

 

He kept insisting he just wanted to help and for me to feel safe and have a good time.

[Wiseman2]

If you are happy, why worry about all these ifs, shoulds, labels, etc? It's 8 weeks and he is kind, consistent and seems to make you happy. Is there some outside friends, family, stuff you are reading that has rules and regulations that is giving you all this angst about semantics?

It’s been two months. everything else was a direct match: kind and consistent every single time. We naturally professes from once a week to twice a week dates, he never over texted, but never made me wonder if I’d hear from him, etc. I made him a care package while he was sick, we watched a Netflix show together and he overnighted nighted me some deserts from the restaurant. We have the same family values (or lack there of, etc). Kind of almost too good to be true status.

[akrngrl]

If you are happy, why worry about all these ifs, shoulds, labels, etc? It's 8 weeks and he is kind, consistent and seems to make you happy. Is there some outside friends, family, stuff you are reading that has rules and regulations that is giving you all this angst about semantics?

 

No outside forces. I just think the dating site debacle made me realize I was more invested than I thought.

 

I didn’t realize it was going to be such a big him from what we have going on to labeling it-just seemed natural to me.

 

I’m also struggling now with what to share. I’ve just had a really unexpectedly awful night and he doesn’t know about it. It’s not something I imagine I’ll bounce back from quickly. Before this I probably would have just told him and not thought twice. But now I’m wondering what I’m expecting from him by me telling him about it. I can’t even think straight right now.

[Wiseman2]

What is it you want from him? You've already deleted sex. You've already told him because he didn't provide a particular label you expected that you are back on dating sites. You want some sort of confidant/support for your awful night.

 

Maybe it's time to decide whether you want to friendzone him, put up walls/play games or just break up but not have the courage to. So you're forcing his hand by deleting sex and telling him you're on dating apps again.

 

If all these maneuvers are to manipulate him into doing/saying something, it doesn't seem to be working. At least you know he's sincere. He's not making empty promises or labels or fast-forwarding or future talking or being manipulated into that.

 

At 8 weeks when you force someone's hand like this there's no leverage/limited investment, so most likely they'll just walk away. Up to you how you want to play this and what you want out of it.

 

I’ve just had a really unexpectedly awful night and he doesn’t know about it. now I’m wondering what I’m expecting from him by me telling him about it.

[akrngrl]

What is it you want from him? You've already deleted sex. You've already told him because he didn't provide a particular label you expected that you are back on dating sites. You want some sort of confidant/support for your awful night.

 

Maybe it's time to decide whether you want to friendzone him, put up walls/play games or just break up but not have the courage to. So you're forcing his hand by deleting sex and telling him you're on dating apps again.

 

If all these maneuvers are to manipulate him into doing/saying something, it doesn't seem to be working. At least you know he's sincere. He's not making empty promises or labels or fast-forwarding or future talking or being manipulated into that.

 

At 8 weeks when you force someone's hand like this there's no leverage/limited investment, so most likely they'll just walk away. Up to you how you want to play this and what you want out of it.

 

Again, I didn’t take sex away as a punishment tactic-it was so I did not continually get more emotionally attached. I never said that I was back on the dating sites in such a way that it was “you didn’t give me what I want, so I’m going to do this”. It was more of “oh I guess we should unhide our dating sites” and he said something like “you can do whatever, but I’m not looking for anyone else or to meet others”.

 

None of this was ever to force his hand. I had decided I said my part and I was going to give it the next month until he left. He was the one who said that he needed to think things through and sorry stuff out and the one that had said he had thoughts to share. Am I bummed that he presented it like he’d come to a conclusion and for whatever reason it turned out that was not the case? Yeah, sure. That stinks.

 

I may be reading too far into it, but I feel like you’re thinking I’m like out to trap a man. That is not the case. He said his bit-it wasn’t an answer either way so I’m going to continue as our new usual and just see what happens. I am doing my best to be clear in my needs and also sensitive to the needs of someone else.

 

Would I have been better off leaving ambiguity and not knowing where we stood while he was away for a short time? Committing to the idea of us and not pursing others because we agreed on being exclusive?

 

In order for me to make a calculated risk I need the facts and all the info I can gather. I do want a confidant for my awful night-or maybe someone I can just be myself around when it’s not sunshine and rainbows. I thought that was him, but given we’re in the apparently fragile space (who knows maybe it’s not fragile for him) I don’t want to spook him by having emotions that aren’t upbeat and happy.

[Batya33]

"What is it you want from him? You've already deleted sex. You've already told him because he didn't provide a particular label you expected that you are back on dating sites. You want some sort of confidant/support for your awful night. "

 

I didn't take this at all from what she wrote. I am not a fan of "no sex" after you've had sex (other than where couples break up, then get back together and decide to wait before having sex -to get to know each other again if you've been apart for awhile) but I see that as an emotional response -that she doesn't want to give sexually if he is not willing to see serious potential for the future and be committed. It's not just a label just like academic degrees and marriage licenses and drivers licenses are not just labels or titles - if they are especially in relationships then it's not a healthy relationship or it's one of convenience like a green card marriage. Not at all what she wants or is saying. It's not a "particular label" it's a particular understanding and intention and if they're not on the same wavelength she has to decide if she'll stay and how long (assuming he never wants more, and assuming she does)

[Wiseman2]

No not "punishment", self protection. You're not punishing anyone but yourself. It still remains up to you how involved you wish to get with someone who is leaving town and after 8 weeks agrees to exclusive dating but has not made whatever "official" designation. Of course you're not "trapping" anyone...except yourself. Because you are unclear on what you want and keep questioning him about what he wants or proposing to remove exclusivity from this. It seems you are torn between wanting more and wanting less.

It was more of “oh I guess we should unhide our dating sites” and he said something like “you can do whatever, but I’m not looking for anyone else or to meet others”.

[akrngrl]

No not "punishment", self protection. You're not punishing anyone but yourself. It still remains up to you how involved you wish to get with someone who is leaving town and after 8 weeks agrees to exclusive dating but has not made whatever "official" designation. Of course you're not "trapping" anyone...except yourself. Because you are unclear on what you want and keep questioning him about what he wants or proposing to remove exclusivity from this. It seems you are torn between wanting more and wanting less.

 

I can see that, thank you for clarifying. I want more, but not in the sense that I don’t care how I get it. By all means had he said no, I could have just walked away.

 

Maybe it’s too many irl birdies in my ear, but what even is exclusive dating long distance? Are we under the premise that we’re in contact the same amount whenever possible? Do I get to cash in gf luxuries like wanting to be somewhere on the priority list because we are not able to just meet up? Am I just supposed to sit back and not date anyone (because we’re exclusive) and hope to get the time of day when he’s back?

 

I suppose all things we’d have to discuss, but frankly I’m over talking about it. I don’t want to bring it up and I haven’t brought it up other than to initiate the convo.

 

Same for my terrible night, I don’t want him to fix it (he can’t), but I want to know that he’s there for me and gives a hoot, but I also don’t want to be tossing anymore “boyfriend” responsibilities on him than he’s demonstrated so far. To me, we’d be at the level where I could share these things, but I’ve been wrong about being on the same page this entire thread.

[Wiseman2]

Unless there is a longer and significant relationship before the distance and a definitive concrete plan to close the distance, it's nonsense. No one wants to be devoid of physical touch, intimacy, shared lives, etc indefinitely in favor of being tethered to electronics.

 

If you simply want someone special to talk to a pen pal or friend or some sort of chat buddy would be a better idea.

what even is exclusive dating long distance?

[akrngrl]

Unless there is a longer and significant relationship before the distance and a definitive concrete plan to close the distance, it's nonsense. No one wants to be devoid of physical touch, intimacy, shared lives, etc indefinitely in favor of being tethered to electronics.

 

If you simply want someone special to talk to a pen pal or friend or some sort of chat buddy would be a better idea.

 

Those are my feelings and I suppose why I brought it up. Perhaps had I waited to say something until the end he would have just said “no” and I would have had my answer.

 

My guess though is he’s going to want to keep it as is while away.

[katrina1980]

akr, I get how you feel too and why you took sex off the table (not wanting to become more invested as you are uncertain as to his intentions for the future).

 

But I also get where Wisemsn is coming from too, as a man.

 

The female/male experience is different and I think it's important to be cognizant of how your bf, a man, is interpreting your behavior.

 

Many men would see it as manipulation, just as Wisemsn does, they just don't understand our experience, just like you are not understanding your bf's experience right now.

 

That said, even in my eyes withholding sex because he is not willing to see serious potential for the future and be committed after only 8 weeks (as another posted stated) is unfair and on its face does seem manipulative.

 

It would seem manipulative no matter how long you've been dating but it boggles my mind that you would expect him or any man to be certain of seeing serious potential for the future at only 8 weeks!

 

Manipulation: You don't give me this (a committment), then I don't give you that (sex). I'm sorry I know this is not your intention and again I understand your reasoning of not wanting to become more invested -- it's not how I operate, but I do get it.

 

But please try and understand and be aware of how your bf, as a man, may be interpreting all this.

 

Again, try and keep things in perspective -- it's been less than two months!

 

This is the observation stage, the stage where we date to determine if someone is right for us long term.

 

You've already jumped way ahead and are expecting assurances from him that he see serious potential for the future!

 

That is a very unrealistic and premature expectation at only 8 weeks imo, whether it's long distance or local, and to take sex off the table because he's not certain yet at this very early stage?

 

Bottom line-- In these very early stages, if you can't be happy with what a man is able to give you, what he is desirous of giving you, you wish him well and walk away. You're not a good fit.

 

Taking sex off the table and attempting to push him into making a decision, which I have no doubt is how HE is interpreting all this is unfair and wrong.

 

If you continue to allow your anxiety and pre-conceived notions about how relationships are "supposed" to be, at only eight weeks, then I don't see this ending well.

 

I'm sorry. GL.

[akrngrl]

akr, I get how you feel too and why you took sex off the table (not wanting to become more invested as you are uncertain as to his intentions for the future).

 

But I also get where Wisemsn is coming from too, as a man.

 

The female/male experience is different and I think it's important to be cognizant of how your bf, a man, is interpreting your behavior.

 

Many men would see it as manipulation, just as Wisemsn does, they just don't understand our experience, just like you are not understanding your bf's experience right now.

 

That said, even in my eyes withholding sex because he is not willing to see serious potential for the future and be committed after only 8 weeks (as another posted stated) is unfair and on its face does seem manipulative.

 

It would seem manipulative no matter how long you've been dating but it boggles my mind that you would expect him or any man to be certain of seeing serious potential for the future at only 8 weeks!

 

Manipulation: You don't give me this (a committment), then I don't give you that (sex). I'm sorry I know this is not your intention and again I understand your reasoning of not wanting to become more invested -- it's not how I operate, but I do get it.

 

But please try and understsnd and be aware of how your bf, as a man, may be interpreting all this.

 

Again, try and keep things in perspective -- it's been less than two months!

 

This is the observation stage, the stage where we date to determine if someone is right for us long term.

 

You've already jumped way ahead and are expecting assurances from him that he see serious potential for the future!

 

That is a very unrealistic and premature expectation at only 8 weeks imo, whether it's long distance or local, and to take sex off the table because he's not certain yet at this very early stage?

 

Bottom line-- In these very early stages, if you can't be happy with what a man is able to give you, what he is desirous of giving you, you wish him well and walk away. You're not a good fit.

 

Taking sex off the table and attempting to push him into making a decision, which I have no doubt is how HE is interpreting all this is unfair and wrong.

 

If you continue to allow your anxiety and pre-conceived notions about how relationships are "supposed" to be, at only eight weeks, then I don't see this ending well.

 

I'm sorry. GL.

 

That’s fair and a good point. I stated it when I took it off the table that it wasn’t at all for punishment or to force a decision and he said he understood, but there is that disconnect between men and women.

 

A bit confused as to why that wouldn’t make him walk away if that were the case, but I’m all over the place today.

 

I think I look at relationships different than most. To me, I’m not asking for the future-I’m asking to formally address this as what it so glaringly (to me) is. It helps me to discern my footing in what I can/have a right to ask for or expect. I see so many people come on here expecting things from others after the first date etc and it’s disproportionate to where they’re at.

 

With him being gone, I’m thinking of Skyping a new series together and having a phone call or two a week when possible (this first small trip is more schooling like he’s in now-not the actual job). Feeling right to want/request those things if that makes sense. I feel like if we don’t get straight on things then I have no right to even ask/assume and definitely can’t be upset if he doesn’t want to do them or if he says yes and then doesn’t follow through.

 

Maybe that’s the whole point of observing and that’s when I’m supposed to be observing. I just kind of what to know “hey what can I expect?” Having the fun that we were I truly didn’t expect this question to be some big to-do. I kind of expected “okay let’s delete everything and focus on each other”

 

I know I keep going back to last night, but I had to make a decision to put down my young pet unexpectedly. I am beside myself and for the first time...ever I don’t want to be alone, but out of all the people, I want him. He’s out with friends this weekend so I haven’t told him and am struggling with if I should even bother. It’s not his job to console me, even as a partner, but much less in this space we’re in. The pet loved him, but he’d only met him three or four times. I don’t want to add yet another unfortunate experience with me to our growing list if we’re counting the last two get togethers.

I’m struggling, on all fronts today, so I don’t want to make an emotional decision. Do I tell him and be honest about how hard this is for me and run the risk that he’s just like “oh that sucks” or do I mention it in passing and act like I’m fine and it’s no big deal as to not make what’s between us heavier than it already is? That’s what I’m ping ponging between.

 

It’s weird because my natural response is to retreat. I want to curl up in a hole and disappear. And yet, as I said some small sliver of me wants to be honest with him, I know he can’t fix it or do anything, but just be with me.

[figureitout23]

I think what he said was incredibly sexist and rude.

 

I’m so sick of people berating women on this board for having wants and desires and needs. The misogyny here is sometimes deafening.

 

Nothing wrong with her sticking around on his terms but god forbid she has her own.

 

She’s already conflicted, that tirade just set her back and if in 6 months she comes on here upset because she stuck around without any idea where things are headed he would tell her she’s being abused...

 

I can’t. Not today. Logging off.

[katrina1980]

JMO but the reason he accepted your reason for taking sex off the table is because if he were to reject it and walk, he would have appeared like a first class a$$-hole, only in it for the sex, which may not be true necessarily.

 

But can almost guarantee he is thinking about it and time will tell how this will all play out ultimately.

 

Again, I wish you luck.

[katrina1980]

Nevermind.

[katrina1980]

 

Bottom line-- In these very early stages, if you can't be happy with what a man is able to give you, what he is desirous of giving you, you wish him well and walk away.

 

You're not a good fit.

 

 

Quoted again^ for emphasis, and tbh I think his actions are a bit shady (specifically re the app) and if I felt this anxious and conflicted, that is precisely what I would do.

 

Versus taking sex off to avoid becoming more invested.

 

Just me.

[milly007]

Have been keeping up with this thread here and there, and I could be way off base here, but I definitely didn't interpret the OP taking sex off the table as a manipulation tactic.

 

Based on what I've read (and OP, correct me if I'm wrong), when the OP decided to meet this guy (after some coaxing from a friend, I think?), it doesn't sound like she was even looking at this guy as a possible serious prospect. It was if the OP was just meeting him out of fun, for the heck of it, and to have a good time.

 

Low and behold, they end up sleeping together, and it sounds like the OP's emotions got the best of her, which she didn't see coming. Now the OP is looking at him as a serious prospect, but this guy isn't sure of what he wants right now.

 

Seems to me that the OP took sex off the table once she realized how emotionally invested she had become, which in the beginning, she didn't see coming. I get it, if this is the case.

 

I don't see this as a manipulation tactic, but only a way of the OP protecting herself.

 

But moving forward, the OP should be careful of casual sex, as I get the feeling it might not be something that works for her.

 

Best to take it slow, get to know someone better before sleeping together, and then consider whether you want to introduce sex into the picture.

 

I can see how some men may see this as a manipulation tactic, but if the OP were to explain that she just got ahead of herself, and had to pull back because she wasn't expecting to have feelings for the guy, any reasonable man would understand this (one would hope).

 

This does remind me of Lex's thread somewhat (a poster on here). Lex met a guy, was expecting only casual (as it worked for her in the past), and she ended up having more feelings for the guy than initially expected as time progressed (and after she had been sleeping with him). Seems like she was a bit taken aback by her feelings, as casual had always worked for her in the past.

 

Anyway, this post isn't directed at anyone in particular, but just wanted to chime-in and say that taking sex off the table is not always a manipulation tactic.