Update & question on where to go from here

[akrngrl]

Ok that clarifies things. You are ok with a LDR, so when he moves you can continue that way..

 

Definitely okay with an LDR, but kind of why I want that ‘R’ for relationship. Otherwise to me it’s Long Distance Someone I’m Kind of With But Not Really 100%. LDRs are heavily based on trust and I’m not sure my trust for anyone goes deep enough to say “yeah we can just keep with that we’re not looking for anyone else, but not actually make it official”.

 

If I’m in an LDR my options aren’t open and I’m not pursuing others. I don’t want to get into this and find out that’s maybe not the case on both ends because of semantics that we aren’t ~actually a couple.

[bluecastle]

I definitely understand this as well! I feel if perhaps I hadn’t brought it up I would have been okay and secure in what we have going on.

 

I do find this interesting.

 

Some people might see a statement like this as a form of rationalizing/bargaining—more bending to accommodate the uncertainly and hesitancy of a man whose vagueness, deep down, frustrates you. And maybe that's the case.

 

Still, I think it's worth exploring if maybe you feel that way because, per some of Katrina's earlier posts, you let anxiety drive you a bit when maybe, just maybe, you could have found another approach to the uncertainty.

 

My therapist said this thing to me years ago, when I was expressing anxiety about something, that really stuck: "What if what you're describing is excitement? What if you could think of it like that?" It really resonated, and now I have this little internal switch—one I often forget to press, being a work in progress like the rest of us—where I ask myself those questions when I'm feeling anxious.

 

Maybe it's about a woman, maybe it's about a deadline that I'm not sure I can meet to my standards, maybe it's while paddling out into waves I'm scared I don't have the skills to surf, maybe it's while pushing myself to take turns on my motorcycle at speeds I know the bike can handle but haven't yet tried.

 

So often the answer turns out to be yes—oh, riiiiigt, I feel this way because I'm thrilled—and suddenly in just knowing that I feel a sense of calm, space to explore that excitement rather than look for a way to eliminate it or reign it in. Because who, after all, wants to snuff out excitement? Not me.

 

Take your spinning about the app stuff. I have to say I find it interesting that you recently dabbled a bit on the apps, chatted with some hangers-on, entertained some form of extracurricular butterfly hunting. Yeah, it was meh, moths instead of monarchs, as it so often is. But it was probably a decent 5 minutes of distraction—from life, from the fluttery uncertainty with dude—and even a "productive" 5 minutes, as it kind of reaffirmed that whatever you guys have is pretty sizzly and special.

 

Yet your response to that, rather than imagine it was likely the same for him if he opened the app, and to find calm in that, was to drift into a more panicked place, and in that place to bring it up, seek something from him to find calm.

 

Not saying that was "wrong"—not at all. Everyone has different needs, different approaches, different requirements for comfort, different thresholds and fluidity levels, as covered. Maybe what you need to stay calm (something more defined verbally, a collective choice to delete the apps) is the exact opposite of what he needs (a touch of breathing room to be vague) and that's the unfortunate rub, a gap in your natures, regardless of whether we could stick a feelings thermometer in each of you and see—look at that!—that the temperature levels are pretty much the same.

 

But me, for what it's worth? I'd take that as a reminder that if my object of romantic interest and connection is maybe doing the same then it is likely the same for her as it is for me. Maybe not exactly the same, but close enough to find calm, to not need to bring it up. I do versions of this a lot, frankly, because I walk a pretty sharp edge out there in the gray zone on the path to black and white.

 

And I don't seek that edge simply because I have a wild streak, or because I'm made of teflon, or because my self-confidence levels are off the charts. It's because I'm 39, have been to a lot of rodeos, had a lot of fun, but am still searching for a model that allows for a deeper connection than I've experienced. Like you, I want a teammate, a partner, the stuff Hallmark makes a mint off.

 

But, because I know myself, I know that feeling with anyone will take me a good long while to establish—like a year—so I put my early energy in the horse (cultivating connection, wherever it goes) rather than the cart (corralling the connection into a predetermined shape). And the older I get the more I'm willing to push some of my own boundaries, and challenge my own habits and thinking, to see about cultivating that kind of connection, to see if it can come about from a slightly different angle than in the past. In high school I wanted commitment after a kiss; today I believe "commitment" and "monogamy" don't even need to mean the same thing. Funny how that happens...

 

Case in point: I'm currently seeing, and sleeping with, someone in a non-exclusive arrangement. I like her a lot. I mean, a lot. Not totally sure where it's going, but I know she likes me too, a lot, and I do trust that our fledgling connection is singular. I also know she has some loose threads, as, well, do I. I know she has some doubts about me, as she should, because she's a smart and amazing human with her own complex history, as I have doubts about her for the same reasons.

 

Sometimes it's a bit nervy, a wave I'm not sure I can surf—like, say, when a few weeks ago I saw her location update on an app and momentarily felt that paranoid, possessive adrenaline rush.

 

So, what to do? I could have asked her to get off the app, which would have been me asking her to calm me down, but was that really my authentic self? Because I was on the app too, wasn't I? Because I have been going on dates with others—some meh, some awful, one fun in a frivolous nice-chat-nice-kiss way, another fun in a genuine, connect-y way.

 

Did any of that change my feelings for the woman I'm seeing? No. If anything, a good portion of that just reminded me that she's incredible, upped my interest and internal commitment level. So I assume the same for her—that whatever she might be up to away from me more often than not affirms my own sizzle and singularity in her mind—and take some steps to allow this space to keep expanding.

 

In this case, I unmatched, removing the anxiety trigger. Turned out to be all I needed for the heart rate to return to normal. The dumb app made it feel like a game, a lesson learned in a previous fire.

 

(How do I know, per my first post, the location updates even when the app isn't being used? Because she casually mentioned, later, that she hadn't been on the app in weeks; and, mind you, she has no reason to lie or hedge because she is totally free to do whatever and whomever she wants; in other words, during the very time I was entertaining some panic-y thoughts about her app activity—while, yes, being plenty active myself, on the screen and IRL—it turned out she wasn't being nearly as digitally randy as I'd assumed; my anxiety was, well, just that: my anxiety, much of it fueled by my own uncertainty as it was hers; had a little laugh to myself when that was revealed, and was awfully thankful that I didn't let it get the best of me because we've continued to have an awesome, awesome time...)

 

Anyhow, take all this with the same salt grains Katrina offered. Not everyone rolls like this, or wants to, and you can scroll through my past posts to see that I've stumbled plenty on these very cliffs.

 

But admittedly part of the reason I'm drawn to this thread is that I can relate a lot to your situation: the exploration with a newish person, the deeper wants, the questioning of how to cultivate them. And, in particular, the sense that stagnancy is the enemy, that growth is the goal.

 

This romantic space I'm in right now, with a person, in life—I know it's not forever. Too many balls in the air to be able to access the kind of connection I'm seeking. I also know it's a risk—as, well, any form of romance is. That kiss in high school? Alas, our lifelong commitment lasted only two weeks, just like whatever I'm doing right now might last two more weeks or might become my future teammate. Still, it's exciting, and in that excitement I find calm. Part of that calm is just the connection, my trust in it, but part of it connected to ways I've pushed myself to expand and, in the process, found new avenues of growth and destroyers of stagnancy.

 

See the dude, talk to him, hang with him. Try not to think of the next meeting as a verdict on the future, but as a verdict on the next step you take. Maybe it's just an inch forward, maybe an inch back, maybe it's staying in this place another minute. All are fine. Maybe a leap forward or back. Also fine.

 

Your gut and spirit are strong. Let them guide you while being confident that they can protect you—and, if needed, heal you.

[figureitout23]

Definitely okay with an LDR, but kind of why I want that ‘R’ for relationship. Otherwise to me it’s Long Distance Someone I’m Kind of With But Not Really 100%. LDRs are heavily based on trust and I’m not sure my trust for anyone goes deep enough to say “yeah we can just keep with that we’re not looking for anyone else, but not actually make it official”.

 

If I’m in an LDR my options aren’t open and I’m not pursuing others. I don’t want to get into this and find out that’s maybe not the case on both ends because of semantics that we aren’t ~actually a couple.

 

 

 

That’s an incredibly logical view.

 

It’s one that keeps your feet planted on the ground and stops you from waiting around for what if’s and maybes.

 

It’s hard enough to be in limbo locally, in limbo long distance? Does he have a p*nis that shoots out gold? Cause that takes some confidence to expect...

[Wiseman2]

If you pursue this and he moves away, what plans are there to make it a viable relationship as opposed to a LDR?

If I’m in an LDR my options aren’t open and I’m not pursuing others. I don’t want to get into this and find out that’s maybe not the case on both ends because of semantics that we aren’t ~actually a couple.

[akrngrl]

If you pursue this and he moves away, what plans are there to make it a viable relationship as opposed to a LDR?

 

I was just trying to make it to the relationship honestly. There seems to be a disconnect in how he was thinking way far down the line and I hadn’t gotten there yet.

 

Not to impose myself, but I imagine I would have eventually gone with him if things were going well/engagement, etc. obviously I’m not going to pick up my life for anything less than that and we’re clearly no where near that right now.

 

Update:

 

We met.

 

I’ll admit that I let people over influence my thoughts on what was going to happen, but everything seemed to point in a good direction. He had mentioned having thoughts he wanted to share, we went to a very special place that had meaning for both of us, etc.

 

He did ask me questions right at the beginning if I planned to stay where I was, etc. which I thought was going to lead into thoughts being shared, but it didn’t and came across as him just trying to make conversation.

 

I was nervous and a little standoffish sitting on pins and needles for the topic to come up and it didn’t for the first few hours. To sum it up the same fears/anxieties exist-though they were clarified to fear of investing and being emotionally vulnerable in this type of situation where he feels like it/he won’t be enough and I’ll get sick of it and leave essentially.

 

I asked him what emotionally vulnerable looked like to him because I have no clue and he was like when other people’s actions affect how you feel. And I was like “oh yeah, that’s me today, this is awful.” Granted lots of people’s actions affect how I feel haha, but for him it’s just whoever he’s with.

 

He was thinking way far ahead and he was relieved to know that’s not where I had been so he said it makes it a lot easier, we kinda almost got there, but then didn’t.

 

I kept mentioning my boundaries-I want someone who knows 100% one way or the other whether they want it or not. No saying yes just because you want to please me. He agreed and then thanked me when I told him if he needed more time he could take it.

 

In the interest of being candid I did share my thoughts on how I feel like “I’m good, but not good enough” and the bit about everyone being afraid, but how willing someone is to put their fears aside if it’s someone they unquestionably want in their life. He got all choked up and was like “that’s not the reason, you know that’s not the reason. It makes me sad for you to think that way” (could be a lie)

 

In the moment I agreed to a date for next week with him because he wants to do another thing on our list we had made.

 

He was fine with how I was a little standoffish at first and kept apologizing for the anxiety he caused me, but as far as when this comes up again-anyone’s guess.

 

I left and and driving home was immediately annoyed (for dumb, over romanticized reasons, but still, it felt better than the physical anxiety I had all day). Lots of questions running through my head, some valid, some not and me just wanting the ~perfect fairytale.

 

-why would he take me to a spot he knows has such significance if he had no news, let alone good news to share? (Okay this one is dumb haha)

 

-why say he had thoughts to share with me and allude to (to me) sounding like he’d come to a conclusion if he didn’t/hadn’t? (He mentioned he wanted to put on a happy Front and not seem sad all week-I guess he wants to come across more sure and confident than he is)

 

-is he lying and this all some dumb game (said none of this was about the apps or anything and all about how the future would look)

 

-he now knows how much this is affecting me, if he truly cares about me why not just tell me no? I hate to dwell, but I would lose basically all respect (not that it matters if it gets to this point) if he drags his feet so much that I have to make the decision to leave. (I also realize this is that “should-ing thing people do and I don’t want to be like that)

 

while I do still want to hangout and see him (because I really do like him) I’m just not sure I’m going to be able to ignore the elephant in the room. There’s this looming discussion and he seems to think it won’t be awkward.

 

At this point I think I just have to try to put it out of my mind, and give myself a deadline of how long I’m willing to wait and then walk away. I’m exhausted and this is not at all how I want to feel towards him. Likewise I’m not someone that needs to have this convo 100 times. I’d much rather one, five minute, direct one.

 

In the back of my mind I feel like all this feet dragging is my answer (I like you, but not enough), and him doing this (it’s not you, it’s me) just makes him not the ~bad guy, but he keeps insisting it’s all on him and he wants to work it out and I’m trying not to be so negative. Buttttttt then again he is the one bringing up the stuff and he is openly sharing himself and the ones that tend to just drag their feet usually shut down these types of convos let alone initiate.

 

I guess overall I’m just conflicted and have to reassess my feelings in this time too.

[akrngrl]

I do find this interesting.

 

Some people might see a statement like this as a form of rationalizing/bargaining—more bending to accommodate the uncertainly and hesitancy of a man whose vagueness, deep down, frustrates you. And maybe that's the case.

 

Still, I think it's worth exploring if maybe you feel that way because, per some of Katrina's earlier posts, you let anxiety drive you a bit when maybe, just maybe, you could have found another approach to the uncertainty.

 

My therapist said this thing to me years ago, when I was expressing anxiety about something, that really stuck: "What if what you're describing is excitement? What if you could think of it like that?" It really resonated, and now I have this little internal switch—one I often forget to press, being a work in progress like the rest of us—where I ask myself those questions when I'm feeling anxious.

 

Maybe it's about a woman, maybe it's about a deadline that I'm not sure I can meet to my standards, maybe it's while paddling out into waves I'm scared I don't have the skills to surf, maybe it's while pushing myself to take turns on my motorcycle at speeds I know the bike can handle but haven't yet tried.

 

So often the answer turns out to be yes—oh, riiiiigt, I feel this way because I'm thrilled—and suddenly in just knowing that I feel a sense of calm, space to explore that excitement rather than look for a way to eliminate it or reign it in. Because who, after all, wants to snuff out excitement? Not me.

 

Take your spinning about the app stuff. I have to say I find it interesting that you recently dabbled a bit on the apps, chatted with some hangers-on, entertained some form of extracurricular butterfly hunting. Yeah, it was meh, moths instead of monarchs, as it so often is. But it was probably a decent 5 minutes of distraction—from life, from the fluttery uncertainty with dude—and even a "productive" 5 minutes, as it kind of reaffirmed that whatever you guys have is pretty sizzly and special.

 

Yet your response to that, rather than imagine it was likely the same for him if he opened the app, and to find calm in that, was to drift into a more panicked place, and in that place to bring it up, seek something from him to find calm.

 

Not saying that was "wrong"—not at all. Everyone has different needs, different approaches, different requirements for comfort, different thresholds and fluidity levels, as covered. Maybe what you need to stay calm (something more defined verbally, a collective choice to delete the apps) is the exact opposite of what he needs (a touch of breathing room to be vague) and that's the unfortunate rub, a gap in your natures, regardless of whether we could stick a feelings thermometer in each of you and see—look at that!—that the temperature levels are pretty much the same.

 

But me, for what it's worth? I'd take that as a reminder that if my object of romantic interest and connection is maybe doing the same then it is likely the same for her as it is for me. Maybe not exactly the same, but close enough to find calm, to not need to bring it up. I do versions of this a lot, frankly, because I walk a pretty sharp edge out there in the gray zone on the path to black and white.

 

And I don't seek that edge simply because I have a wild streak, or because I'm made of teflon, or because my self-confidence levels are off the charts. It's because I'm 39, have been to a lot of rodeos, had a lot of fun, but am still searching for a model that allows for a deeper connection than I've experienced. Like you, I want a teammate, a partner, the stuff Hallmark makes a mint off.

 

But, because I know myself, I know that feeling with anyone will take me a good long while to establish—like a year—so I put my early energy in the horse (cultivating connection, wherever it goes) rather than the cart (corralling the connection into a predetermined shape). And the older I get the more I'm willing to push some of my own boundaries, and challenge my own habits and thinking, to see about cultivating that kind of connection, to see if it can come about from a slightly different angle than in the past. In high school I wanted commitment after a kiss; today I believe "commitment" and "monogamy" don't even need to mean the same thing. Funny how that happens...

 

Case in point: I'm currently seeing, and sleeping with, someone in a non-exclusive arrangement. I like her a lot. I mean, a lot. Not totally sure where it's going, but I know she likes me too, a lot, and I do trust that our fledgling connection is singular. I also know she has some loose threads, as, well, do I. I know she has some doubts about me, as she should, because she's a smart and amazing human with her own complex history, as I have doubts about her for the same reasons.

 

Sometimes it's a bit nervy, a wave I'm not sure I can surf—like, say, when a few weeks ago I saw her location update on an app and momentarily felt that paranoid, possessive adrenaline rush.

 

So, what to do? I could have asked her to get off the app, which would have been me asking her to calm me down, but was that really my authentic self? Because I was on the app too, wasn't I? Because I have been going on dates with others—some meh, some awful, one fun in a frivolous nice-chat-nice-kiss way, another fun in a genuine, connect-y way.

 

Did any of that change my feelings for the woman I'm seeing? No. If anything, a good portion of that just reminded me that she's incredible, upped my interest and internal commitment level. So I assume the same for her—that whatever she might be up to away from me more often than not affirms my own sizzle and singularity in her mind—and take some steps to allow this space to keep expanding.

 

In this case, I unmatched, removing the anxiety trigger. Turned out to be all I needed for the heart rate to return to normal. The dumb app made it feel like a game, a lesson learned in a previous fire.

 

(How do I know, per my first post, the location updates even when the app isn't being used? Because she casually mentioned, later, that she hadn't been on the app in weeks; and, mind you, she has no reason to lie or hedge because she is totally free to do whatever and whomever she wants; in other words, during the very time I was entertaining some panic-y thoughts about her app activity—while, yes, being plenty active myself, on the screen and IRL—it turned out she wasn't being nearly as digitally randy as I'd assumed; my anxiety was, well, just that: my anxiety, much of it fueled by my own uncertainty as it was hers; had a little laugh to myself when that was revealed, and was awfully thankful that I didn't let it get the best of me because we've continued to have an awesome, awesome time...)

 

Anyhow, take all this with the same salt grains Katrina offered. Not everyone rolls like this, or wants to, and you can scroll through my past posts to see that I've stumbled plenty on these very cliffs.

 

But admittedly part of the reason I'm drawn to this thread is that I can relate a lot to your situation: the exploration with a newish person, the deeper wants, the questioning of how to cultivate them. And, in particular, the sense that stagnancy is the enemy, that growth is the goal.

 

This romantic space I'm in right now, with a person, in life—I know it's not forever. Too many balls in the air to be able to access the kind of connection I'm seeking. I also know it's a risk—as, well, any form of romance is. That kiss in high school? Alas, our lifelong commitment lasted only two weeks, just like whatever I'm doing right now might last two more weeks or might become my future teammate. Still, it's exciting, and in that excitement I find calm. Part of that calm is just the connection, my trust in it, but part of it connected to ways I've pushed myself to expand and, in the process, found new avenues of growth and destroyers of stagnancy.

 

See the dude, talk to him, hang with him. Try not to think of the next meeting as a verdict on the future, but as a verdict on the next step you take. Maybe it's just an inch forward, maybe an inch back, maybe it's staying in this place another minute. All are fine. Maybe a leap forward or back. Also fine.

 

Your gut and spirit are strong. Let them guide you while being confident that they can protect you—and, if needed, heal you.

 

Thank you bluecastle! After the update I just posted, I’m going to try and implement some of your advice in this post. I’ve shared my side and now I need to let things work themselves out.

 

I really really appreciate all of your insight/advice. My most recent post was all the thoughts and feelings immediately after leaving. Some rational/some not (most irrational ones were fleeting) but I felt like it was important to share all of them. I realize I’m not perfect and maybe those fleeting irrational thoughts are something to work on, but I like your approach to assessing the space I’m in.

[Wiseman2]

No to what?

-he now knows how much this is affecting me, if he truly cares about me why not just tell me no?

[akrngrl]

No to what?

 

A legitimate no to being official and pursuing this.

[Wiseman2]

Wasn't the exclusive dating situation and the dating app thing discussed already? What is meant by "official"? Only you can decide if you want a LDR at some point with someone who travels a lot and is only in town for a limited time for work.

A legitimate no to being official and pursuing this.

[figureitout23]

Wasn't the exclusive dating situation and the dating app thing discussed already? What is meant by "official"? Only you can decide if you want a LDR at some point with someone who travels a lot and is only in town for a limited time for work.

 

She asked if he was interested in being in a relationship and his answer was “ wwlllllll my ex girlfriend likes gummy bears...”

 

He didn’t say that exactly but he may as well have because it was a wishy washy response.

 

Now he’s giving it ‘serious’ thought.

 

The previous sexual exclusivity talk was ‘well I’m not looking...’ followed by him still possibly checking into the dating app.

 

She is deciding...

[akrngrl]

She asked if he was interested in being in a relationship and his answer was “ wwlllllll my ex girlfriend likes gummy bears...”

 

He didn’t say that exactly but he may as well have because it was a wishy washy response.

 

Now he’s giving it ‘serious’ thought.

 

The previous sexual exclusivity talk was ‘well I’m not looking...’ followed by him still possibly checking into the dating app.

 

She is deciding...

 

FIO I legitimately laughed out loud at your gummy bears answer and I totally needed that today [emoji23]

 

Pretty spot on. We had the sexual exclusivity talk weeks ago before we became intimate and he’s not a sex outside of serious dating type of fella, but I was under the assumption we could still “meet” people for coffee, etc.

 

Then when I brought up “what are you looking for” he had mentioned that he’d hidden his dating profiles and wasn’t seeking to meet anyone else, and the possibility of meeting his family when they came to visit.

 

After that I found his dating app location updated I brought up basically ~finalizing everything (deleting the apps and using titles) and this is where he’s having issues currently. Apparently it has NOTHING to do with apps and wanting to meet others, but him being afraid of being ~all in and essentially becoming emotionally vulnerable to someone given his situation of not being around.

 

As I said, I’m fine with LDR, but he seems to be thinking about how the future and perhaps not being able to be in contact consistently due to the demands of the job/time differences and that it won’t be enough for me/he won’t be able to be as good to me as he feels I deserve.

 

My perspective is if you have a legitimate reason (work, etc.) that you’re not in/can’t be in contact then it is what it is and that’s fine. If you’re never in contact just because you don’t want to talk/or you’re going out/etc. and you’re not saying “hey, I’m going to be out with the guys tonight” or “hey I’m just not up for talking tonight” and it’s just radio silence-I’d have a problem.

 

I could even see if he was trying to keep this at status quo, but as i said, I took intimacy off the table. Not saying that that’s what he’s only about or that it was a tactic for commitment (it was so I didn’t get more attached while in this grey space). I know it’s not true for all men, but all the ones I’ve ever been with would have bounced pretty quickly after realizing they didn’t have that option anymore.

 

Everyone in real life is just like “oh he’s conflicted”, “he just needs time to sort it out”

I guess I’m just struggling with the fact that ENA and life alone has taught me that 99% of these situations are just the person trying to let you down easy or make you end it so they’re not the bad guy. In my head I’m trying to discern if he’s REALLY the 1% or if I’m just playing myself.

[Metaltwin70]

'Everyone in real life is just like “oh he’s conflicted”, “he just needs time to sort it out”

I guess I’m just struggling with the fact that ENA and life alone has taught me that 99% of these situations are just the person trying to let you down easy or make you end it so they’re not the bad guy.'

 

I can't claim to know what he's thinking - neither of us can. I can give you our timeline back in 2004 when I met my husband.

 

Here in Europe, exclusivity is assumed from the start. We start dating someone/having sex with them = we don't have sex with anyone else until one or the other states they want out, otherwise we're cheating on the other. We don't do any of 'but we weren't exclusive'. (I find the whole concept frankly insulting beyond belief).

 

I had sex with him on date 2. By end of week 4, he asked me to be his gf. By about 6 weeks, he asked me to go and meet his entire family and all of his important friends in his country of origin. By around 6 months together, we were inseparable and part of each other's lives. None of it was by ANY MEANS perfect. He was a walking red flag and so was I. I didn't give a c**p and neither did he. We JUST CLICKED. I wanted him and he wanted me. I did EVERYTHING wrong. So did he. The entire situation was what ENA would call 'prime example of how to be a brainless idiot'. Almost 15 years later, we still adore each other. Sometimes I ask myself what it is that he loves in me, I swear.

 

My point is.. when it's right.. men tend to know very early on. Actually, men and women both.

[akrngrl]

'Everyone in real life is just like “oh he’s conflicted”, “he just needs time to sort it out”

I guess I’m just struggling with the fact that ENA and life alone has taught me that 99% of these situations are just the person trying to let you down easy or make you end it so they’re not the bad guy.'

 

I can't claim to know what he's thinking - neither of us can. I can give you our timeline back in 2004 when I met my husband.

 

Here in Europe, exclusivity is assumed from the start. We start dating someone/having sex with them = we don't have sex with anyone else until one or the other states they want out, otherwise we're cheating on the other. We don't do any of 'but we weren't exclusive'. (I find the whole concept frankly insulting beyond belief).

 

I had sex with him on date 2. By end of week 4, he asked me to be his gf. By about 6 weeks, he asked me to go and meet his entire family and all of his important friends in his country of origin. By around 6 months together, we were inseparable and part of each other's lives. None of it was by ANY MEANS perfect. He was a walking red flag and so was I. I didn't give a c**p and neither did he. We JUST CLICKED. I wanted him and he wanted me. I did EVERYTHING wrong. So did he. The entire situation was what ENA would call 'prime example of how to be a brainless idiot'. Almost 15 years later, we still adore each other. Sometimes I ask myself what it is that he loves in me, I swear.

 

My point is.. when it's right.. men tend to know very early on. Actually, men and women both.

 

That’s an interesting perspective and I suppose it would mean he’s not on board as he’s expressing fears first rather than “this is scary and I’m unsure, but let’s do this”

[katrina1980]

Contrast to Metal's experience, my bf and I did not become exclusive or "official" for almost three months and he is "all in" as am I, and fully committed.

 

Everyone moves towards relationships and commitment differently, at a different pace, moving faster does not necessarily make it more real than someone moving at a slower pace.

 

Problem is you want it now, and he's not there yet.

 

Your continuing to discuss it, pushing it so to speak is not going to result in him getting there any faster, in fact the opposite, he will feel that "pressure" and may recoil.

 

I've been on the other side of that pressure and it's not a good, fun or positive place to be, in fact it can be very much a turn off.

 

Bottom line, if what he has to give, to offer you at this moment in time, is not enough for you, causes you all this anxiety and paranoia (your word) then wish him and walk away.

 

IMO there is no "waiting" for him to "get there" after only two months dating.

 

All the while, you are a ball of anxiety, insecurity and paranoia, waiting for him to get there.

 

You either accept and be happy at the pace it's going, or if you can't, you walk.

 

The fact it's a LDR is irrelevant and should not factor into this imo. And the only reason it is is because of your anxiety and insecurity, which is a very unhealthy reason for wanting it.

[akrngrl]

Contrast to Metal's experience, my bf and I did not become exclusive or "official" for almost three months and he is "all in" as am I, and fully committed.

 

Everyone moves towards relationships and commitment differently, at a different pace, moving faster does not necessarily make it more real than someone moving at a slower pace.

 

Problem is you want it now, and he's not there yet.

 

Your continuing to discuss it, pushing it so to speak is not going to result in him getting there any faster, in fact the opposite, he will feel that "pressure" and may recoil.

 

I've been on the other side of that pressure and it's not a good, fun or positive place to be, in fact it can be very much a turn off.

 

Bottom line, if what he has to give, to offer you at this moment in time, is not enough for you, causes you all this anxiety and paranoia (your word) then wish him and walk away.

 

IMO there is "waiting" for him to "get there" after only two months dating.

 

You either accept and be happy at the pace it's going, or if you can't, you walk.

 

I understand that. That’s why I mentioned that this is frustrating because he is bringing it up and he has to be the one to bring it up. I didn’t bring it up last night I was only on pins and needles because he had said he had thoughts to share with me and made it seem he had come to a decision.

 

He needs more time to sort through it. If he has said “this is where I’m at and this is what I can offer” I’d likely say “okay this may not be enough for me” and walk away.

 

I feel as though the cat is out of the bag on my end so to speak. He knows what I want and how I feel. I don’t know what staying in this situation and now letting it develop at its own rate would look like other than me ~settling for less than I asked for so to speak.

 

Do I keep intimacy off the table? Do I revert back to the way things were when it seemed like everything under the sun pointed to both of us working toward building something together? These are the kind of questions I ask myself. Maybe I can’t go back now and it’s too late because I don’t want to come across as the woman to state her needs, but then not assert them.

 

It’s mostly his willingness and insistence (and tearful proclamations of how great I am

And how much I mean to him) that he needs to sort things out that has me “waiting”-I feel as though I’m not waiting for him the “be ready” but more so to decide yes or no if this is a viable option to him.

 

If it’s no, it’s no-I don’t want to give my all to someone who doesn’t have faith in where things are going or is cool hanging out in some middle area while I want/expect more. I told him that. I would be positively infuriated if he or anyone ever said something to the effect of “you can’t get mad/expect that we’re NOT actually together” (that has been said before). Nah dude, peace.

 

And I could be wrong, but I sort of feel like that’s where he’s leaning- setting it up to “want to continue” but “if I drop the ball or freak out you don’t get to be mad because I never said this was a serious thing”. Kind of like have your cake and eat it too, but not in the typical context I’ve seen it in.

 

I guess I also don’t understand how he compartmentalizes all of this. Like he wants to date as usual (go out places) and act like nothing is different. Last night could have just been my nerves because I thought there would be a conclusion, but it felt weird. It felt weird to sit across from someone that I was once, but am not currently intimate with and have him try to hold my hand and wrap his arms around me and make comments about the vacation we were planning and visiting him. I see now that a lot of what was fun was all the things we Talked about doing together. I don’t think I could be on board with that anymore, but he apparently is.

 

All of this kind of has me questioning my feelings I suppose. I’m still battling whether this is all some big smoke screen or the actual truth. He had always been diplomatic, well spoken and mature-so this hemming and hawing is a surprise-I would have expected something along the lines of “I’m just not there, you should find someone who is”

[katrina1980]

JMO but all this analysis and over-thinking sounds utterly exhausting!

 

These early stages should be fun, sexy times, getting to know each other and silently determining whether or not someone is right for us long term.

 

If a man was causing me this much anxiety and paranoia so early in, I would just walk.

 

It's off, not right. We're not a good fit.

 

I've dated enough men to recognize that, and to know when it feels right.

 

I have no idea why he brings this up, then announces he needs more time.

 

Perhaps he is sensing your anxiety about it, and simply covering his a$$ so as to avoid you coming at him later accusing him of misleading you, but who knows.

 

Something does sound very off about this, and him, I'll give you that.

 

Again, just me but I wouldn't be taking sex off the table, when it gets to that point of withholding sex for whatever reason, it's time to walk away, especially after only two months.

 

Best of luck whetever you decide!

[akrngrl]

 

All the while, you are a ball of anxiety, insecurity and paranoia, waiting for him to get there.

 

You either accept and be happy at the pace it's going, or if you can't, you walk.

 

The fact it's a LDR is irrelevant and should not factor into this imo. And the only reason it is is because of your anxiety and insecurity, which is a very unhealthy reason for wanting it.

 

I just wanted to put it out there that my anxiety/paranoia has shifted since the start of this thread haha. It’s no longer about dating apps and “did he lie to keep his options open”.

 

It’s now paranoia about “is he being honest or is he just feeding me bs” because if my friends came to me and said a guy told them they were scared and not ready I’d likely say “sure, not ready to be with you. A guy that’s scared but doesn’t want to lose you will work through that fear real quick.”

 

In all honesty after last night, I just took a big sigh and was like “I honestly don’t even care anymore what happens”. He won’t get the intimate benefits of me by any means, but I’m going to let him do him. Maybe it’s self preservation or me “pulling back”, but I loved this when it was fun and we were exploring and experiencing and these last three days I’m like “nah this isn’t what I’m here for-if we’re not going to be exited and enjoy each other I’m not going to make a case for this”. I tend to feel things really strongly and then get over them really fast so this could just be that.

 

I do appreciate everyone still commenting and giving input while I work through this. I want to see all the perspectives and at least learn things from this experience.

[figureitout23]

I just wanted to put it out there that my anxiety/paranoia has shifted since the start of this thread haha. It’s no longer about dating apps and “did he lie to keep his options open”.

 

It’s now paranoia about “is he being honest or is he just feeding me bs” because if my friends came to me and said a guy told them they were scared and not ready I’d likely say “sure, not ready to be with you. A guy that’s scared but doesn’t want to lose you will work through that fear real quick.”

 

In all honesty after last night, I just took a big sigh and was like “I honestly don’t even care anymore what happens”. He won’t get the intimate benefits of me by any means, but I’m going to let him do him. Maybe it’s self preservation or me “pulling back”, but I loved this when it was fun and we were exploring and experiencing and these last three days I’m like “nah this isn’t what I’m here for-if we’re not going to be exited and enjoy each other I’m not going to make a case for this”. I tend to feel things really strongly and then get over them really fast so this could just be that.

 

I do appreciate everyone still commenting and giving input while I work through this. I want to see all the perspectives and at least learn things from this experience.

 

And this is literally the best mindset to have. Reality.

 

*cough* the over thinking came from overthinking posters leading the way *cough*

[akrngrl]

JMO but all this analysis and over-thinking sounds utterly exhausting!

 

These early stages should be fun, sexy times, getting to know each other and silently determining whether or not someone is right for us long term.

 

If a man was causing me this much anxiety and paranoia so early in, I would just walk.

 

It's off, not right. We're not a good fit.

 

I've dated enough men to recognize that, and to know when it feels right.

 

I have no idea why he brings this up, then announces he needs more time.

 

Perhaps he is sensing your anxiety about it, and simply covering his a$$ so as to avoid you coming at him later accusing him of misleading you, but who knows.

 

Something does sound very off about this, and him, I'll give you that.

 

Again, just me but I wouldn't be taking sex off the table, when it gets to that point of withholding sex for whatever reason, it's time to walk away, especially after only two months.

 

Best of luck whetever you decide!

 

I just saw this and totally agree. We’re not getting together until next week so I have some time to breathe which I’m actually really thankful for.

 

I think he was putting a LOT of effort into thinking-the day after it first came up he said he’d been thinking ALL day and had thoughts to share. And I was like “oh cool...that was fast”. But for whatever reason they weren’t new thoughts so I don’t know why he was so excited to share [emoji23]. And I refuse to bring it up because I know where I stand (or stood). His issues-he’s gotta broach it.

 

I totally agree about the sex. At first it was just to preserve my feelings while we were in this grey space and when it seemed like he had his answer I was like “okay he can survive a time or two without it” but now it’s likely this giant thing that apparently he needs all this time for so it will definitely seem like I’m withholding. Frankly, I miss it lol, but not enough to initiate it again. Half the fun was how compatible we were and everything just fell into place-now it feels like we’re two different jigsaw puzzles that got stored together.

[akrngrl]

And this is literally the best mindset to have. Reality.

 

*cough* the over thinking came from overthinking posters leading the way *cough*

 

[emoji23] maybe a little. I feel like shifted mindsets on you guys throughout this thread though so my apologies. Reading the initial post I remember how hurt I was, but now I’m like “nope this is all his demons and nothing to do with outside women or myself.” Not my monkey, not my circus.

[Wiseman2]

It sounds like you are disappointed because he didn't tell you what you were hoping for. However, he's not stringing you along because he's not making promises.

[akrngrl]

It sounds like you are disappointed because he didn't tell you what you were hoping for. However, he's not stringing you along because he's not making promises.

 

I am disappointed, but mostly disappointed that it wasn’t an answer one way or the other. Just that more time is needed, and he didn’t exactly state that outright either.

 

Am I/was I going to feel sad he didn’t feel the same way and said “I can’t do this”? You bet, but I would have had a lot of respect once I got out of the weepy headspace.

 

If this is “see how long I can get away with it before she cuts me off” then he’s not who I thought he was and I would lose all respect anyway.

[akrngrl]

It sounds like you are disappointed because he didn't tell you what you were hoping for. However, he's not stringing you along because he's not making promises.

 

Sorry, I can’t edit on my phone. I didn’t think that term specifically at first, but I kind of feel like “I want to/can get to that headspace” “I have to work through these things” and bringing it up only to not have anything new to share is stringing someone along. Any sort of carrot dangling, which IMO that is, would be considered that.

 

Not stringing someone along, to me, is “I can’t offer what you want right now, you should find someone who can” or even “I’m going to try to work towards that, but you shouldn’t wait for me”. Get in touch when your head is on right and if I’m still available we can talk.

[bluecastle]

*cough* the over thinking came from overthinking posters leading the way *cough*

 

Did I just hear my personal little dog whistle, calling me back into the fray?

 

Look, AK, I'd love to keep turning the prism here, but I think you've got a lot of voices in your head that are making it hard to hear your own voice.

 

From what I can see, you're verging dangerously close to the place of simply wanting this man to be, well, someone he is not. He says x and y and your response is: Why didn't he say z? He does a and b and your response is: But why not just also do c?

 

Subtext: Why can't he like me enough to be, you know, more like me?

 

Not in his toolkit, not who he is, not right now. If you need z and c, you need z and c. You don't extract those variables through exhausting conversations; if anything, the opposite. More noise and needles, more disconnect, enough to drown out x, y, a, and b—i.e. the good stuff, the fun stuff.

 

If the good stuff and the fun stuff isn't, well, good or fun enough, just own that. If you read the story of Metal and her husband and think "yeah, that's how it should be, that's what I want" then, well, make room for that.

 

(Me, I read that story and I think: so lovely, so beautiful, so happy for Metal and her husband—but ain't no way I'll ever commit at that speed or be with someone who rolls like that. Hence my grain of salt caveats...)

 

Bottom line: it breaks my heart to see anyone feeling "good, but not good enough" in any kind of romantic situation. I literally can't imagine that. If I've ever felt that, it's for a few hours, max. That alone would be the exit light turning on for me, not a reason to go deeper into the decoding/analysis wormhole. (And I'm a rabid decoder—that's just how my brain works—but I don't stay in the thing pulling me into that place; I get out, burn off the energy through overthinking, so I can get into something else that turns thoughts off and feelings on.)

 

Brass tacks: If you can continue seeing this guy, hanging out and having sex and putting the brakes on all this decoding—keep doing it. Not because it's a maybe-path to Metal's bliss, or a maybe-path toward Katrina's and my more fluid bliss, but because its enough bliss, for you, right now. If that's not possible, time to move on, so you can appreciate this chapter and this man instead of coming to see it/him through a darker lens.

[akrngrl]

Did I just hear my personal little dog whistle, calling me back into the fray?

 

Look, AK, I'd love to keep turning the prism here, but I think you've got a lot of voices in your head that are making it hard to hear your own voice.

 

From what I can see, you're verging dangerously close to the place of simply wanting this man to be, well, someone he is not. He says x and y and your response is: Why didn't he say z? He does a and b and your response is: But why not just also do c?

 

Subtext: Why can't he like me enough to be, you know, more like me?

 

Not in his toolkit, not who he is, not right now. If you need z and c, you need z and c. You don't extract those variables through exhausting conversations; if anything, the opposite. More noise and needles, more disconnect, enough to drown out x, y, a, and b—i.e. the good stuff, the fun stuff.

 

If the good stuff and the fun stuff isn't, well, good or fun enough, just own that. If you read the story of Metal and her husband and think "yeah, that's how it should be, that's what I want" then, well, make room for that.

 

(Me, I read that story and I think: so lovely, so beautiful, so happy for Metal and her husband—but ain't no way I'll ever commit at that speed or be with someone who rolls like that. Hence my grain of salt caveats...)

 

Bottom line: it breaks my heart to see anyone feeling "good, but not good enough" in any kind of romantic situation. I literally can't imagine that. If I've ever felt that, it's for a few hours, max. That alone would be the exit light turning on for me, not a reason to go deeper into the decoding/analysis wormhole. (And I'm a rabid decoder—that's just how my brain works—but I don't stay in the thing pulling me into that place; I get out, burn off the energy through overthinking, so I can get into something else that turns thoughts off and feelings on.)

 

Brass tacks: If you can continue seeing this guy, hanging out and having sex and putting the brakes on all this decoding—keep doing it. Not because it's a maybe-path to Metal's bliss, or a maybe-path toward Katrina's and my more fluid bliss, but because its enough bliss, for you, right now. If that's not possible, time to move on, so you can appreciate this chapter and this man instead of coming to see it/him through a darker lens.

 

That’s true bluecastle, perhaps I like to see the different perspectives a little too much. I just like to better understand where people may be coming from.

 

I appreciate your insight and I’m so sorry that I’m coming off as wanting him to be more like me, because I don’t actually want that. I want him to be honest. “Yes/no/I’m not there yet, but here’s the plan _____”. He’s a very confident and assured person in general so seeing him this unsure is almost unsettling-like I’ve caused him to battle some inner demon by asking a question. Even yesterday I was like “dude, it’s not that deep. If that’s how you have to approach it, you do what you need to, but just know I’m not asking for you to approach it that way”.

 

Last night as he kept talking in circles and I sat there listening every time he said “I’m anxious or nervous about _____” I wanted to say “okay, what are you going to do about it?” Believe me I do not want these long conversations. I’m more of a “hey so this is a thing now, cool?” Or even better yet just getting introduced as a partner haha.

 

Sex is already off the table unfortunately, but I may continue to date and just have fun knowing that I won’t be able to be here waiting for him to get back when he leaves. I find it a little peculiar that he still wants to date in the absence of intimacy, but maybe he really does like me and really is just this conflicted.

 

I can see what you’re saying about the darker lens as this last experience has definitely given me pause. I’m curious to see if going forward, not being told were going to talk, if I can have a more enjoyable time.