Paying for dinner, etc.

[katrina1980]

Interesting how differently people see it. I think she gets a lot in being able to go to his home, sleep in, have breakfast made for her. That's on top of having all these expensive dates paid for.

She is giving something by driving, and some cooked meals. Baybabysitter I wouldn't even factor in , that's on her to pay for her kids, not on him.

 

I think she enjoys the wining and dining, and having a romantic escape. That whole feeling of being treated like a princess and being courted that way, well, asking that they switch up how things are arranged is a wet rag on that fantasy.

 

So now she's being punitive and bratty. Well, I drive! You must pay if you want to court me!

Not charming in the least. Maybe a wake up call to OP to stop the 100 flowers and 300 symphony dates.

 

What he does in four months, I'd consider special treats whether beginning a relationship or well in one. It's extravagant, over the top. Now if it were me, well past my time of being dazzled with the princess treatment and interested in something grounded and equitable , no way I'd accept all that to 'court me' ( in fact I'd see it as a red flag). And I wouldn't drive 1 hour half so frequently either - it's silly to do that and then resent it, hoping to get something out of it.

 

It's unbalanced, and it seems they both have ideas about how it somehow should have to be unbalanced to start something.

Both their baggage is out there. Hopefully they can work it out.

 

This^ is a great assessment, I agree.

 

And I hope they will work it out as well, I have a feeling they will (and have).

 

Hopefully, Mitch will update.

[katrina1980]

Re the kids thing, OP wrote in his posts 28-29 they have not met each other's kids yet and he also addressed how many times she's driven to his - five times.

 

He's been to hers three times, the rest of their dates they met in between.

 

Agree there is a lot of info that has not been addressed, which would explain the differing opinions.

 

Par for the course on these forums though, right?

[Wiseman2]

It's about not spending $100s voluntarily on flowers, fancy dinners, etc. then complaining.

It wasn't an invite then handing over the bill once there.

[journeynow]

It's about not spending $100s voluntarily on flowers, fancy dinners, etc. then complaining.

 

Got it. You have a point.

 

Reminds me of a friend who would bend over backwards doing things (unasked) for other people, then complain about being taken advantage of. (I guess because people let her do those things?)

[figureitout23]

It's about not spending $100s voluntarily on flowers, fancy dinners, etc. then complaining.

 

Got it. You have a point.

 

Reminds me of a friend who would bend over backwards doing things (unasked) for other people, then complain about being taken advantage of. (I guess because people let her do those things?)

 

 

That's exactly what I've been trying to verbalize. Thank you wiseman.

[katrina1980]

I didn't sense he was complaining per se, he genuinely enjoys/enjoyed treating her.

 

But after four month's of "treating" he thought things should be more equitable, so simply asked how she feels about picking up the check once in awhile.

 

After her snarky (and as itsallgrand said, punitive and bratty) response, he started "complaining" to us about it, or perhaps just explaining the situation?

 

But I think that came from a place of anger/confusion at her response, more than him feeling resentful about it.

 

Just my take, I could be wrong!

[journeynow]

But after four month's of "treating" he thought things should be more equitable, so simply asked how she feels about picking up the check once in awhile.

 

After her snarky (and as itsallgrand said, punitive and bratty) response, he started "complaining" to us about it, or perhaps just explaining the situation?

Right. Could be he's assessing the overall situation. I still believe it is a good trigger to start a discussion on what each means by certain key words, such as "dating", "courting", "exclusive vs. committed relationship", etc. Because, really, gaining understandings is what dating is about, right? Unless it's only about sex, in which case it's good to be in agreement about that as well.

[katrina1980]

Right. Could be he's assessing the overall situation. I still believe it is a good trigger to start a discussion on what each means by certain key words, such as "dating", "courting", "exclusive vs. committed relationship", etc. Because, really, gaining understandings is what dating is about, right? Unless it's only about sex, in which case it's good to be in agreement about that as well.

 

Absolutely! :)

 

This was just a bump; hopefully they will discuss, resolve, and have a better understanding of each other after doing so.

[purplepaisley]

She's driving 3 hours, round trip, and it's more than just gas. It's time. It's mileage on the car. Make sure the tires are good. Replace and rotate more frequently due to the high level of wear and tear. Basic car maintenance. Insurance. Paying for roadside assistance. A lot of time on the road. Packing and preparing for that time. Getting errands done on other days, in order to have that space of time to drive 1-1/2 hours, one way, for that date. Paying a sitter or arranging child care. Picking up, dropping off, making sure there's food for the kids and the sitter, and extra money in case you forgot to buy toilet paper or the bath soap has gone missing, and the sitter has to go buy some. It's work and it's exhausting, and she's making the time and doing these things to spend time with him...making the time and spending the money in order to make this relationship work.

 

Now if she's insisting on high dollar excursions, symphony and ballet and theater and fancy restaurants every single time, that's a whole other story. If she can't tolerate a meal at home or some Taco Bell, or Denny's, or Pizza Hut, and insists upon highfalutin meals and entertainment each and every time, let's rethink this relationship. I think the OP can scale back to the "dating budget" that has been mentioned in prior posts. We can do some cheap dates and just spend time together and splurge on occasion...reasonable. I'd be thrilled with this. I'm usually the traveler, and I'm thinking, I'm doing all this driving, and I have to provide the meal too? I'm not opposed to providing, but it's a lot more work for me to do it, along side of an hour-and-a-half drive, putting my life on hold for the travel, plunking $40 into the tank, another hour and a half drive back home, make sure the laundry is done, the backpacks and homework are ready to go, the kids are clean and fed, groceries are covered, your own lunches and work clothes are ready to go. There's a lot to be said about dating local.

[journeynow]

Our first dates were in between each other.

 

How about more of this^?

[WetBlanket]

It depends on culture, I think.

 

I notice Westerners prefer to do the whole 50-50 thing; Asians like me, guys ALWAYS pay unless the girl really insists. My Asian ex gave me access to his bank account (without me asking), saying his money is my money. And he gets really upset/insulted if I try to pay because his view was the man takes cares of the woman. My father is the same way he doen't let females in the family pay for anything.

 

There is nothing wrong with what you are wanting - same as there is nothing wrong with what she's after. But if views on money are not aligned, it will make for a difficult relationship. I would suggest having a calm discussion with her about this whatever way you both like, and if it doen't work, then probably better to break things off.

[Andrina]

Since you feel as though things aren't being done fairly in your relationship, it doesn't matter what others opinions are. You will most likely resent her even if someone points out you're not being reasonable. You say things have been great up until this point. Well, yes, you were in the honeymoon period, but now you're moving into the reality of the situation. And you won't know until you have discussions in the future what her views are on sharing finances in a shared household would be, until she answers those questions.

 

I'm assuming you're wanting a long term relationship and one of you will eventually have to move, which also involves the children moving. Have you taken all of that into consideration when you started dating? That's a major uprooting of many lives, career moves, schooling changes, leaving family and friends, blending of families. It's not across the world or even to another state, but still major.

 

It's time to seriously think about those things before continuing on with someone who differs from you in a major way if you two can't come to a consensus.

[figureitout23]

Since you feel as though things aren't being done fairly in your relationship, it doesn't matter what others opinions are. You will most likely resent her even if someone points out you're not being reasonable. You say things have been great up until this point. Well, yes, you were in the honeymoon period, but now you're moving into the reality of the situation. And you won't know until you have discussions in the future what her views are on sharing finances in a shared household would be, until she answers those questions.

 

I'm assuming you're wanting a long term relationship and one of you will eventually have to move, which also involves the children moving. Have you taken all of that into consideration when you started dating? That's a major uprooting of many lives, career moves, schooling changes, leaving family and friends, blending of families. It's not across the world or even to another state, but still major.

 

It's time to seriously think about those things before continuing on with someone who differs from you in a major way if you two can't come to a consensus.

 

Bingo......

[Honeycomb8]

She's driving 3 hours, round trip, and it's more than just gas. It's time. It's mileage on the car. Make sure the tires are good. Replace and rotate more frequently due to the high level of wear and tear. Basic car maintenance. Insurance. Paying for roadside assistance. A lot of time on the road. Packing and preparing for that time. Getting errands done on other days, in order to have that space of time to drive 1-1/2 hours, one way, for that date. Paying a sitter or arranging child care. Picking up, dropping off, making sure there's food for the kids and the sitter, and extra money in case you forgot to buy toilet paper or the bath soap has gone missing, and the sitter has to go buy some. It's work and it's exhausting, and she's making the time and doing these things to spend time with him...making the time and spending the money in order to make this relationship work.

 

Now if she's insisting on high dollar excursions, symphony and ballet and theater and fancy restaurants every single time, that's a whole other story. If she can't tolerate a meal at home or some Taco Bell, or Denny's, or Pizza Hut, and insists upon highfalutin meals and entertainment each and every time, let's rethink this relationship. I think the OP can scale back to the "dating budget" that has been mentioned in prior posts. We can do some cheap dates and just spend time together and splurge on occasion...reasonable. I'd be thrilled with this. I'm usually the traveler, and I'm thinking, I'm doing all this driving, and I have to provide the meal too? I'm not opposed to providing, but it's a lot more work for me to do it, along side of an hour-and-a-half drive, putting my life on hold for the travel, plunking $40 into the tank, another hour and a half drive back home, make sure the laundry is done, the backpacks and homework are ready to go, the kids are clean and fed, groceries are covered, your own lunches and work clothes are ready to go. There's a lot to be said about dating local.

 

 

This is quite an exaggeration. And she's only driven to him 5 times, while he has done so 3 times. I don't think it justifies him being the only one that spends money.

[figureitout23]

This is quite an exaggeration. And she's only driven to him 5 times, while he has done so 3 times. I don't think it justifies him being the only one that spends money.

 

Yeah, but he's exaggerating too. She's not exactly holding a gun to his head demanding flowers and jewels

[katrina1980]

Yeah, but he's exaggerating too. She's not exactly holding a gun to his head demanding flowers and jewels

 

I don't understand this comment. mitch wasn't complaining that he bought her flowers and jewels, my take was that he genuinely enjoys giving, making her happy, and was simply providing us the details of their dynamic so we could have a better understanding.

 

All he asked was whether she'd be willing to pick up the check once in awhile! Which I think, given he's paid for literally everything for four months, and they both do their share of the driving, I think is quite reasonable.

[figureitout23]

I don't understand this comment. mitch wasn't complaining that he bought her flowers and jewels, my take was that he genuinely enjoys giving, making her happy, and was simply providing us the details of their dynamic so we could have a better understanding.

 

All he asked was whether she'd be willing to pick up the check once in awhile! Which I think, given he's paid for literally everything for four months, and they both do their share of the driving, I think is quite reasonable.

 

Not literal Kat.

 

He's taking her to these extravagant places buying her flowers no one makes him do this, heck even paying for her, no one makes him do this, they don't have to go out, he's hanging HIMSELF up on the cross and expecting others to give their codelences. My mind just doesn't work like that, you're complaining to us but at the end of the day this is an easy fix. If this is truly a deal breaker, walk away.

[katrina1980]

 

My mind just doesn't work like that, you're complaining to us but at the end of the day this is an easy fix. If this is truly a deal breaker, walk away.

 

Fair enough, but what's the easy fix?

 

1. Never or rarely go out, and when they do, continue paying but make the dates inexpensive (cheap).

 

2. Walk away.

 

3. Ask her if she'd be willing to chip in once in a while.

Re no. 1, what if they both enjoy going out to nice places, restaurants, shows, etc.? He should just give that up because his girlfriend refuses to chip in once in awhile?

 

Re no. 2, what if they really like/love each other and envision a future? He should just walk away before asking if she's willing to chip in once in awhile?

 

I vote for number 3, it makes the most sense. But yeah if she refuses, then consider walking away.

 

Remember, all he did was ask, and it appears he's getting beaten up for it, which I don't understand.

[Honeycomb8]

He did bring it up to her and she threw a hissy fit. Demanding people don't make for good partners.

[katrina1980]

He did bring it up to her and she threw a hissy fit. Demanding people don't make for good partners.

 

Yes I know he did, I was just responding to fio's post re "easy fixes."

 

mitch chose number 3, which I personally believe was the correct choice; she threw a fit, hence this thread.

 

Agree with what's in bold!

[figureitout23]

He's not getting 'beaten' up for asking. I don't think he's being beaten up at all, I think reasons people aren't necessarily seeing his side of things vary greatly.

 

Me personally, I just don't see this as big of a deal and I certainly don't see her as entitled or any of that. Entitled individuals don't make hours long trips. Had he said I'm paying, I'm driving, I'm doing everything, ok hang yourself in the cross, I'll help you up, but hes not, so to base her entire personality on his take of one event? Nah.

 

I mean, I could, he could get people to get out the pitch forks and be judge jury and executioner and he can be single again, ruining what could be something good because he won't simply talk to her in a non accusatory manner, Sorry, I don't think this was a nonchalant 'oh hey, can we talk about splitting the bill' I mean he may have meant for it to come off that way but I think it's clear she didn't take it that way hence her reaction. To assume she's the type to just shut down even though he says everything else is good just doesn't make sense. I think he's frustrated the way things went and was venting a bit, which may be why he hasn't come back to the post. I don't think things are all that bad between them though.

 

I think with this whole idea of paying for dates is quite the hot topic here where, in my eyes, women who don't throw themselves in front of a man to pay, are seen as gold diggers. We women we aren't that simple. And this situations is far from black and white in my eyes.

 

I'm not jumping on the she's a monster bandwagon. Not for something so easy to fix, quit going out for expensive a** dates. If HE likes the finer things in life, he can pay, if he is simply trying to get to know her, which is what the point of dating is, it doesn't matter what they do, go out for ice cream for petes sake.

[katrina1980]

@fio, you make it sound like she's making this big sacrifice by driving to his when she does, and because of that, she's somehow exempt from being an equal participant in their relationship, financially.

 

He didn't even ask her to be "equal" per se, only to chip in "once in awhile," and apparently they "both" enjoy the finer things in life; if he were to cut that off (because she refuses to chip in occasionally), that could actually be "worse" than him asking her to chip in occasionally!

 

Given her reaction to his very reasonable request (in my opinion) I cannot imagine that going down well, at all.

 

I very much agree with what itsallgrand posted below, she gets a lot from driving to his, it's no sacrifice, in fact she may even prefer it for reasons itsallgrand posted.

 

No she's not a "monster" just a bit of a entitled princess.

 

Again my opinion and I guess at this point, we will just have to agree to disagree. :)

 

 

I think she gets a lot in being able to go to his home, sleep in, have breakfast made for her. That's on top of having all these expensive dates paid for.

 

I think she enjoys the wining and dining, and having a romantic escape. That whole feeling of being treated like a princess and being courted that way.

 

[figureitout23]

Kat that's literally what you don't seem to get. You have tunnel vision about attempting to label her. My point in her driving is not only that she clearly contributes to their relationship, but the spoiled princess label clearly does not fit because of the fact that she contributes in other ways. They don't have to go out! If he's so bothered about who contributes to what quit going, if he thinks she's entitled there is no hope for this relationship, none. We are getting one side of this, again, given here reaction. I think it's more likely she took offense to what he said.

 

You want to label her whatever you want, that's your prerogative. Again it's not that black and white to me. And concidering the poster hasn't come back, I will repeat what I said about him venting and the situation not being nearly as cut and try as it appears to you.

 

I'm done talking about this. You're not going to change my mind. I don't see her as one extreme or the other.

[Batya33]

Kat that's literally what you don't seem to get. You have tunnel vision about attempting to label her. My point in her driving is not only that she clearly contributes to their relationship, but the spoiled princess label clearly does not fit because of the fact that she contributes in other ways. They don't have to go out! If he's so bothered about who contributes to what quit going, if he thinks she's entitled there is no hope for this relationship, none. We are getting one side of this, again, given here reaction. I think it's more likely she took offense to what he said.

 

You want to label her whatever you want, that's your prerogative. Again it's not that black and white to me. And concidering the poster hasn't come back, I will repeat what I said about him venting and the situation not being nearly as cut and try as it appears to you.

 

I'm done talking about this. You're not going to change my mind. I don't see her as one extreme or the other.

 

I also wanted to tack on to what you wrote - at least in my marriage I've seen the real downside of any conversations that have the scorecard/what I've done for you lately approach. It just doesn't seem to go well. So I think any conversation has to start without that motivation to prove "you" do more than the other person, etc. Maybe instead "I enjoy our time together and it's getting hard for me to afford to go out as much as we do. What do you suggest we do as an alternative?" And it's so so important to talk in person (even if you write things down and read them) . I mean general "you" of course.

[katrina1980]

@ fio, tnx for your further post, I am really not trying to change your mind, I promise, I am simply giving my perspective, as you are, as we all are.

 

Sure he could try what you have proposed, not go out, go for ice cream, see how that goes. But as I said in my post above second paragraph, I don't envision "that" going down well either. But he could try it, if paying for every single date bugs him so much.

 

To poster who mentioned score card, I agree, but, and again just my perspective, she is the one who started keeping score after he asked how she felt about picking up the check "once in awhile," by lauching into "all" she does, focusing mostly on driving to his (even though he drives to hers as well). Something she greatly benefits from as itsallgrand outlined.

 

I think the way he phrased the question was fine, he shouldn't have to mince words, it's not like he demanded it, he simply asked if she would be open to it.

 

Anyway, yeah I suppose nuff said, just one of those things we will have to agree to disagree on. I always respect your posts and am totally cool with that. :)

 

Mitch hasn't checked back in, but I hope he and gf have come to a meeting of the minds and worked it out.

 

I would love for him to update, but for some reason, I doubt he will, I hope he does though.