Can somebody explain to me how continuous cheating isn't evil?

[Unreasonable]

So yeah, I've been reading up on cheating a bit lately, and I've seen a lot of stuff like "Cheating isn't evil - it's human", and "people aren't perfect, they make mistakes."

 

I've looked back at my life, and there has been an instance or two, where I totally had a crush on someone, unbeknownst to everyone, thought about them a lot, even fantasized about being with. So I understand the feeling of wanting to cheat. My idea of what would have happened if I acted on it is I would feel terrible, never do it again, and that the guilt would eat me up to the point where I confessed. I say this because this is exactly what happened when I got talked into going to a strip club by my boss when I was young man. So, I know any cheating would end really badly, and that foreknowledge has, I believe, prevented me from any further shenanigans, even when I wanted to. I also grew up in an extremely guilt-focused religion when it comes to sexuality, so that might have something to do with it. My first hand experience seeing what cheating does to a family further reinforced this I believe.

 

I take a look at my dad, who a long time ago cheated on my mom with a married woman over the period of several years. He even had had kid with her (accidentally I presume), which resulted in a massive cover up (my mom was part of this) and neither my half-sister and I knew each other existed until about a year ago. Now, I don't know what was going through his mind at the time, I guess my dad thought my mom was boring or something, but the amount of scheming, deception, and total premeditation required to pull that off for YEARS is just mind-boggling to me. I'm sure it all started out with some mutual crying on the shoulders, but then my dad worked it out that this woman would befriend my mom, even become best friends with her, and our families got close, to the point where if people saw my dad and this woman out together, my poor naive mom would say, oh, we're all just good friends. It was like the perfect crime.

 

Now, I have since forgiven my father for that, it is easier to do because I can rationalize away that it was a long time ago, and my dad has changed. I'm even happy that there was a silver lining in my half-sister (I was an only child). But I can shake this idea that what he did was just plain evil. How can you write that off, to just being human, and making mistakes? How can you do that, time after time, scheme, plan and just totally disregard your spouse, without being a sociopath? I just plain don't get it.

 

This is really bothering me because my wife had an emotional affair over a period of months, its over now, and we're trying to work things out, but it's coloring my perception of her. I don't view what she did nearly as insidious, but still.

[LaHermes]

Unreasonable:

 

Cheating is bad, and destructive and demeaning. For sure. The well thought out and structured deception is actually worse IMO. Long-term structured deception.

 

Anyhow:

 

Percentage of men who admit to committing infidelity in any relationship they’ve had: 57%

• Percentage of women who admit to committing infidelity in any relationship they’ve had: 54%

• Percentage of men and women who admit to having an affair with a co-worker: 36%

• Average length of an affair: 2 years

 

As if that weren’t enough, they also cite the following:

• Percentage of men who say they would have an affair if they knew they would never get caught: 74%

• Percentage of women who say they would have an affair if they knew they would never get caught: 68%

 

"But sometimes the cheater is just an opportunist who is takes advantage of whatever pleasures come along without knowing or caring what anybody thinks. In this case the infidelity itself may not be a sexual addiction but may just represent pervasive pattern of immaturity, impulsivity, self-centeredness or antisocial behavior. He or she may cheat once or many times but the prospects for change may be poor. Such people may find it easiest to simply get better at covering their tracks or may move on to a new spouse to escape any consequences."

 

"I have long been struck by the fact that serial cheaters I have had as clients (mostly men) are usually married to beautiful women. Often these women are also accomplished and very bright. These addicts are not looking for something better and in fact often cheat with someone less attractive and less desirable than their spouse. As one addict put it: “I married a 10 and I cheated with 2s”.

 

You might say that they cheat for one of two reasons. Both are built on deep insecurities.

 

From an article by Dr. Linda Hatch PhD. titled "Can Serial Cheaters Change". Good article.

[Annia]

I think "evil" is just semantics. It doesn't matter if we classify as evilness or not. It's a deshonest thing to do and it's up to us to decide if we take a cheater back or not. I've also had huge crushes while I was in relationships, but I chose not to act on them and instead work on the relationship. My mother cheated on my dad for a couple years with another man. I don't think she's evil, we've forgiven and moved on. I've seen cheaters settling down and apparently not cheating now (some friends of mine) with their present relationships. I've also been cheated (I never had an ex admitting that to me, but I'm almost 100% sure I was cheated on in 2 relationships). I don't think that what these people did was personal or an attack directed to me.

 

I prefer to take it "mistake", or "selfishness" or "dishonest" rather than "evil" itself. However I make the choice of trying to avoid cheaters in my relationships, because their values are not compatible with mine. I think some people cheat because they have low empathy, are selfish and narcissistic. However I also believe that many people cheat for other reasons and can become better after learning from that mistake and assuming their mistake and responsibility. However this evolution takes time if it happens, and most often than not it doesn't happen at the relationship they cheated on but in the future ones.

[Liraele]

I don't consider cheating evil, personally. Wrong, yes. Immoral, yes. Evil, no.

 

Most people who cheat are guilty merely of selfishness. They aren't cheating (usually) to hurt the other person, they're cheating for self-gratification. I'm using the word "merely" here, because to me "evil" is a far weightier term with further reaching consequences and also implies an intention that for most...I don't think cheating actually (again, usually...there are exceptions) has.

 

Humans are funny creatures, and we often do things that baffle even ourselves. I see this as one of those things. Sometimes, cheating is a testament to character (meaning: that a person has none), but sometimes it's a last resort, a desperate attempt, a primal need of some sort, or just right time right place filling a missing piece...that drives them to it.

 

Still wrong? Absolutely.

 

Understandable? Maybe, at least from a detached perspective. Does that make it any less painful? Nope.

 

Some people never give in to those baser desires/instincts/whatever you want to call them. Some do.

[Seraphim]

We all contain the capacity for evil. It is a matter of conscious choice to choose good or evil.

[Unreasonable]

I see, so as long as the intent isn't to hurt your partner (which I can see, since most people hide it), it's not "evil," just selfish. But it would be if you're intentionally trying to hurt them. What if you're having a "revenge affair" after you got cheated on?

[Liraele]

I'd say still merely selfish. Eye for an eye mentality tends to be.

[Clio]

I dislike cheaters as well but I believe that looking things in terms of black and white/ good and evil serves nothing. People cheat for lots of different reasons. Some are sociopaths/selfish/entitled. Some are damaged due to unresolved issues from childhood and don't even realize it. Some are very unhappy in their relationships and use cheating as an escape. Some have unresolved feelings from the past and the list goes on. I don't excuse any of them but imo calling them evil is not accurate either. Damaged/hurt/lost/dysfunctional can be some of the cases I can think of. I do believe that cheating is a choice but I can see how some people may have a harder time doing the right thing than others. The important thing is to stay true to personal boundaries, communicate, make informed decisions and stick to the "fool me once shame on you" principle i.e. in certain very special circumstances it may be ok to work on rebuilding a relationship (in my case I would maybe give a second chance if children were involved and there seemed to be true remorse) but no second chances when it comes to cheating.

 

It seems that you are trying to make sense of what happened to your marriage. I imagine it's hard to know which category your wife fits in. The motives behind cheating can be different from one person to the next so painting all cheating with the same brush is probably not constructive if you are trying to save your marriage. Resentment is destructive. It may be that cheating was the symptom of your relationship missing something. While, the fault of cheating is all on your wife, your relationship getting to that point indicates that there may have been a problem with regards to communication at the very least and that takes two. Your wife's cheating was NOT your fault but for your relationship to get to that point of communication break down may have been something you both contributed to it. Only you know whether that was the case or not. Not all cheaters are "evil" sociopaths though.

[Seraphim]

Well, I never said all cheaters are evil sociopaths. People can and do make evil choices and not be a sociopath.

[LaHermes]

"People of the Lie" by the late Scott Peck.

 

Again, it is the deception, lying and even at times the glee the cheater feels at the success of his or her lies.

[j.man]

There's never been a point after a schoolyard suicide bombing where I've said, "Well.... you have to understand that..." So believe me I'm not about to say I don't think "evil" exists.

 

That said, 99.9% of the world is gray. Even if bare infidelity could itself be considered "evil," while I'm certain it does happen, I'd have to wonder how often it really is the case a saint ends up getting cheated on by a demon. As I mentioned in a very recent previous thread, we're all ultimately and solely responsible for the actions we choose to take. But it is very often, even if not through outright betrayal, that the "faithful" partner contributes plenty to a desolate or hostile relationship environment. Add to it the financial and familial ramifications that complicate the whole "just leave if you're not happy," and while not excusable and still something I personally consider absolutely deplorable, it is comprehensible.

 

Point being that I'm not big into stigmas nor completely discounting surrounding circumstances. I have no problem stating without qualification that I think cheating is wrong. What I won't say is-- certainly without intimately knowing the context of a particular relationship-- a cheating partner is evil or inherently more "wrong" than the partner they cheated on regardless of what that partner may have said or committed through the course of the relationship.

 

I remember back when I was like 20. Was struggling with PTSD and, to be honest, I was shamefully vindictive when it came to pretty much any sort of confrontation. During an argument with my then girlfriend, I very consciously brought up the most hurtful comment I could think to. Well, your boy caught the harshest slap across the face he's ever experienced-- and I was raised among Catholic women, so that should say something. No question-- her slapping me was wrong. And while I've since been on the receiving end of some hurtful words, I never have and never would strike someone for it. But I really hope that, were someone to be able to witness what happened with 20-year old me, they'd look at my ex and say, "Wow, that was evil."

[LaHermes]

Great post, J.Man.

 

 

Robert Weiss has this to say in his article on the topic:

 

"Interestingly, after working with hundreds of couples attempting to process and overcome a male (or female) partner’s cheating, it is clear to me that it’s not any specific sexual act that does the most damage to a committed relationship. It’s the ongoing pattern of secrets and lies that surrounds the cheating that causes a loving partner the most pain. The profound and repeated betrayal of relationship trust causes the most pain."

 

and "Reasons"

 

He’s a liar. He never intended to be monogamous, despite his commitment. He doesn’t understand that his vow of fidelity is a sacrifice made to and for his relationship and the person he professes to love. This man views monogamy as something to be worked around rather than embraced.

 

He is insecure. Deep down, he feels that he is too young, too old, too fat, too thin, too poor, too stupid, or too whatever to be desirable. He uses flirtation, porn, and extramarital sex as a way to feel better about himself, to reassure himself that he is still desirable, worthwhile, and “good enough.”

 

He is immature. He thinks that as long as his partner doesn’t find out, he’s not hurting anybody. He doesn’t understand that significant others almost always know when something is up. He doesn’t “get” that his partner will eventually find out what’s been going on, and when that occurs, it won’t be pretty.

 

He is damaged. Perhaps he is acting out early trauma experiences, such as physical abuse, neglect, or sexual abuse. His formative wounds have left him unable or unwilling to fully commit himself to another person. He may also seek sexual intensity outside his relationship as a way to self-medicate (escape from) his emotional and psychological pain.

 

He has unreasonable expectations. He believes that his spouse should meet his every sexual and emotional need, 24/7, without fail. In his narcissistic and self-focused way, he doesn’t understand that his spouse may be juggling multiple priorities (kids, work, home, finances) in addition to him and the relationship. When this spouse inevitably fails him (in his view), he feels entitled to seek intimate attention elsewhere.

 

He is bored, overworked, or otherwise put-upon (in his mind), and feels deserving of something special that is just for him—hiring prostitutes, viewing porn, or having affairs. Or maybe he wants more attention from his mate and thinks a period of pulling away will cause her to comply.

 

He is confused about love. He mistakes limerence—the “rush” of early romance—with love. He does not understand that in truly loving relationships, the early, visceral attraction is gradually replaced by sweeter feelings of longer-term attachment, honesty, commitment, and emotional intimacy.

 

He is addicted. Perhaps he has an ongoing, problematic relationship with alcohol or drugs that affects his decision-making and disinhibits him. He may also have an issue with sexual compulsivity, meaning he uses sexual activity as a way to self-soothe, escape uncomfortable emotions, and dissociate from the pain of underlying psychological conditions.

 

He wants out. He is looking to end his current relationship and is using external sexual and romantic activities to give his wife or girlfriend “the message” without having to be direct. Or, if he is a man who doesn’t like being alone, period, then finding a new and “better” person before leaving a current relationship provides a safer and softer landing.

 

He lacks male bonding and a peer community. Having undervalued his healthy need to maintain solid, supportive friendships and community with other men, his reaction to a busy or distracted spouse is all the more injurious—as he expects all of his emotional and physical needs to be met by this one person (read: Mom).

[Annia]

I see, so as long as the intent isn't to hurt your partner (which I can see, since most people hide it), it's not "evil," just selfish. But it would be if you're intentionally trying to hurt them. What if you're having a "revenge affair" after you got cheated on?

 

Selfish too. What others do to us is not an excuse for us to act wrong or do things that we know are against our values. The challenge in life is being the "better person" regardless of our scars, forgive and move on. When I say forgive is the act of deciding to let go and move on, not condoning what the other person did or staying with people that are not good for us.

[LaHermes]

UNR.

 

"What if you're having a "revenge affair" after you got cheated on?"

 

That IMO would come under the heading "plain childish". You broke my little toy bus so I'm going to pull the head off your doll.

Think about it. L.

[Wiseman2]

There is some wisdom to the proverb 'hate the sin, not the sinner'. It helps to wrap your head around why otherwise good people do horrible things. Cheating is not a 'mistake', it's a terrible thing. However, he's your dad and your dna so you need to make peace with it and it sounds as though you have.

I have since forgiven my father for that, it is easier to do because I can rationalize away that it was a long time ago, and my dad has changed. I'm even happy that there was a silver lining in my half-sister (I was an only child). But I can shake this idea that what he did was just plain evil.

[ParisPaulette]

"Cheating isn't evil - it's human", and "people aren't perfect, they make mistakes."

 

You know who says that? People who are chronic cheaters OR are with chronic cheaters and want to convince themselves it's not so bad, because otherwise they'd have to admit they have no spine and can't break free of someone who is mistreating them. And self-deception is the far greater problem in a lot of those cases.

 

I don't know that I would classify cheating as "evil" but I would classify it as toxic and damaging and placing other people at risk for STDs, some of which are fatal and...wait, yes on second thought, cheating IS evil.

 

Whoever is telling you that or writing that has their head up their proverbial you know what. Delete it and hold your own opinions and boundaries on the topic, because that's what matters. Not some Internet articles written by idiots or a cheater who is trying to justify what they do.

 

By the way "mistakes" are things like mixing salt up for sugar or adding an extra 0 to your bank account records. Cheating is a conscious choice, not a mistake, a choice.

[LaHermes]

As OP says:

 

"As the OP said:

 

"but the amount of scheming, deception, and total premeditation required to pull that off for YEARS is just mind-boggling to me. I'm sure it all started out with some mutual crying on the shoulders, but then my dad worked it out that this woman would befriend my mom, even become best friends with her, and our families got close, to the point where if people saw my dad and this woman out together, my poor naive mom would say, oh, we're all just good friends. It was like the perfect crime.

""

 

and

 

"How can you do that, time after time, scheme, plan and just totally disregard your spouse, without being a sociopath? "

 

The lying and deception over such a long period of time definitely is not a mistake.

What you are describing is not just the one-off scenario of someone in a drunken state sc**wing someone up against the wall of a pub car park without even knowing who she is. Also totally deplorable, but no malice aforethought.

 

I don't know what to say Unreasonable, but I can understand how it bothers you. It was insidious.