Controlling or very opinionated?

[Michael22]

And @victoria her mom is fully aware we have sex. She had a sit down with us and we talked about it. I don't tell her what to shave. I politely asked if she could and when she said no i was a little upset and told her I didn't want to do oral. And thats what caused her to break down.

[Seraphim]

When you make someone cry you are being a bully. Personally I think she needs to go to her dad with your " opinions."

[Wiseman2]

Your thread asks if it's controlling or opinionated. Coercion is controlling.

All i do is express my opinion. She doesn't have to make any change at all. She chooses to.

[Michael22]

Except I never bullied her. She has problems dealing with her feelings sometimes and gets overwhelmed and cries. She's been through a lot in the past. Including losing all contact with her father.

[reinventmyself]

She's a child for petes sake. .

You are both just kids for that matter.

Please leave her be and both of you go grow up before you attempt to engage in a mature, serious relationship.

Sorry. .. I am a parent and if she were my daughter I'd be pretty upset with you.

If I said how I really felt, I'd be in trouble by the moderators here.

 

Your ultimatum for her to shave down `there' or you wouldn't be going there just crossed the line.

[Seraphim]

Except I never bullied her. She has problems dealing with her feelings sometimes and gets overwhelmed and cries. She's been through a lot in the past. Including losing all contact with her father.

 

Except you know what ,her opinion and rights to her own body matter more than yours so back off.

[Wiseman2]

If all these demands are to mold her to suit your wants, how is that for her?

She's been through a lot in the past

[Seraphim]

She's a child for petes sake. .

You are both just kids for that matter.

Please leave her be and both of you go grow up before you attempt to engage in a mature, serious relationship.

Sorry. .. I am a parent and if she were my daughter I'd be pretty upset with you.

If I said how I really felt, I'd be in trouble by the moderators here.

 

Your ultimatum for her to shave down `there' or you wouldn't be going there just crossed the line.

 

I agree as a parent you would be out of my daughter's life at this point. However , I have a son and he was taught everyone has a right to their own body.

[itsallgrand]

This is a bad track you are on, OP.

 

I personally don't think that girl is ready to date anyone. Sixteen and already a history with boys and abuse, the answer isn't another boy.

 

Why did you choose this dynamic and this girl? I agree with the others who have said it is not ok to be treating her in this way.

 

However, if you had chosen a girl with a decent level of self esteem, she would have never had put up with this as long as this. You wouldn't have gotten crying, you would have got dumped.

 

She isn't representative of all girls her age, just like you aren't of all boys your age.

If you want to date healthy girls, yes, you have to change this behaviour and mentality. It's not healthy this current dynamic- and that cuts both ways

[missmarple]

Her breakdown last night is because I told her that if she didn't shave down there that I wouldn't want to go down there.

 

So, it's not just fake lashes, extensions and clothing that bothers you and it's not just your insecurities that she 'wants to be pretty for others' that cause problems between you.

 

Let the poor girl go because this is not love.

[Fudgie]

Controlling or not, I still stand by my previous comment: it's a waste of YOUR time and HERS for you to date someone who does something regularly that you can't stand. Don't like heavy make-up? Don't date girls who like to wear heavy make-up. It's that easy. I know that sounds "mean" but there are many fish in the sea. You're going to be mighty unhappy and going to make others unhappy if you enter relationships with folks and then try to change who they are. Really, why bother?

 

For the record, I make this go for women too. Many of us know women who constantly go for "Bad boys" despite wanting a committed, monogamous relationship. They make stupid decisions like trying to get with a guy who is partier, non-monogamous, and doesn't want to settle down, and think that they can "change him". They can't. Same principle.

[DancingFool]

Well I guess i have to say it again. I don't tell her to do anything. All i do is express my opinion. She doesn't have to make any change at all. She chooses to. Sure if our opinions go against eachother i'll be a little upset but i always get over it in a bit.

 

Dude, when you tell someone do this or else...that's not an expression of an opinion, that's forcing and manipulating someone into an act that you want from them. You are then defending yourself with "but they can just tell me to eff off and do as they please". Well some people can, most cannot. It takes balls to do that, especially with someone you are in love with and want to please. So if she were here, I'd tell her to dump you yesterday because you are a grade A control freak. She is not here and you are asking if you are controlling - YES you are and manipulative to boot. Your behavior is not defensible. You can continue to argue against or you can work on adjusting your attitude - up to you entirely. Both choices have consequences that you will live with.

[reinventmyself]

From the outside looking in, it's no mystery that if this girl has had abusive relationships prior (at 16!) and issues with her father, that she ended up with you.

[True Story]

Put yourself in her shoes? How would you feel if she made similar comments to you, that you are making to her?

 

Her make-up, clothing etc. are a form of self expression. So when you are criticising those things, you are indeed are criticising her, and killing her self esteem each time you do that. That is why so broke down and said:

"I don't like those things that she does it means that I don't love all of her and hate certain parts about her."

 

No, you are not forcing her by saying "you have to do this...", but you are forcing her, by putting pressure on her, and that is wrong. Her appearance is part of her. You may love her, but if you can't accept ALL of her, then you need to do the right thing and end the relationship. Trying to change what you don't like about her IS controlling, can be considered abusive.

 

Again, it is WRONG to treat someone this way, Accept her for how she is or end the relationship.

[TMifune]

I stand by what I've written. Nothing I've read subsequently, including what he just posted, changes my opinion.

 

I never really occurred to me that you would do anything else.. When people make moral judgements based on partial evidence and preconceived notions, they're very very seldom willing to reconsider their judgements or question the preconceptions that lead to those judgements when new evidence comes to light.

 

What's scary to me is that he elaborated in a way that directly refuted some of the presumptions that people made, and you're still like "nope, didn't assume anything".

 

This whole thread reads like this to me:

Outrage.

Tailor the facts to justify the outrage.

New Facts

Ignore them or shoehorn them into a shape that fits the original outrage.

 

Everybody grab your torches and pitchforks. Less Git Im!

[reinventmyself]

. . . .majority rules

[Krankor]

My take: My girlfriend and I tell each other what looks we like and don't like on each other. For example--the other day--my girlfriend said "Dude, seriously? White socks with that outfit?" She laughed about it, but she was also kind of letting me know that maybe it wasn't the best look. It didn't bother me. And I let her know what looks, hairstyles, etc I find particularly attractive on her. I see nothing wrong with this, because neither of us insist on getting our way about it, we just state our opinions.

 

But I had an ex who hated how I got my hair cut. I have a military style haircut and am clean shaven. That's been my look for probably 15 years now. It's how I see myself and I don't want to change it. But she liked the slightly scruffier look on a guy and would get upset with me every time I got my hair cut, even going so far as to insist that I "clear it with her first" before I got it cut. She was also always on me to grow facial hair. For my job, I am only allowed to grow a mustache because I have to be able to seal a gas mask. She complained constantly about that workplace rule but said that I should at least grow a mustache. I did once and looked absolutely ridiculous so I shaved it off. She threw an absolute fit when I did. No matter how many times I told her that this was the look I was sticking with, that it's what I had when we got together, and that I wanted her to leave me alone about it, she just wouldn't drop it and was constantly downright harassing me about it. That was controlling behavior and was wrong, and she was controlling in other ways as well.

 

OP--It's OK to tell your girlfriend your opinion on her hair, makeup, etc in an honest but kind and respectful way. But once you've stated your opinion, you've stated it. Hounding her about it because she doesn't do what you like isn't OK.

[TMifune]

No, you are not forcing her by saying "you have to do this...", but you are forcing her, by putting pressure on her, and that is wrong. Her appearance is part of her. You may love her, but if you can't accept ALL of her, then you need to do the right thing and end the relationship. Trying to change what you don't like about her IS controlling, can be considered abusive.

 

Again, it is WRONG to treat someone this way, Accept her for how she is or end the relationship.

 

Girl: Do you like my hair better up, or down?

Any guy who internalizes the messages in this thread: "I'm sorry, but it's not my place to render an opinion on that because that would be unfairly pressuring you to conform to my preferences. Your hair is perfect in any orientation. Unfortunately I just discovered that you squeeze the toothpaste from the middle instead of the back. It really bothers me but it would be abusive to have a discussion with you about how much it bothers me because that might feel like pressure for you to conform to my preferences. This clearly means that I don't love and accept you for you, so I'm leaving you. Best of Luck finding the person that doesn't have a single habit or quirk that annoys you."

[reinventmyself]

There is a vast difference between stating a personal preference -and- creating drama and conflict while repeatedly stating your displeasure about it. . . .to the point that the recipient is crying over it.

[Clinton]

I never really occurred to me that you would do anything else.. When people make moral judgements based on partial evidence and preconceived notions, they're very very seldom willing to reconsider their judgements or question the preconceptions that lead to those judgements when new evidence comes to light.

 

What's scary to me is that he elaborated in a way that directly refuted some of the presumptions that people made, and you're still like "nope, didn't assume anything".

 

This whole thread reads like this to me:

Outrage.

Tailor the facts to justify the outrage.

New Facts

Ignore them or shoehorn them into a shape that fits the original outrage.

 

Everybody grab your torches and pitchforks. Less Git Im!

 

Your opinion is out of step with everyone else's it seems. And that's fine. If everyone offered the same advice it would be a pretty boring forum.

 

But save the hyperbole. It's kinda boring.

[missmarple]

Girl: Do you like my hair better up, or down?

 

Where did the OP say that she's asked his opinion? Either about her make up or about where/how often she should shave?

[Fudgie]

TMI,

 

I understand your point but it's not the same. In that case, the girl is ASKING for his input and WANTS his input.

 

The case is here, we have a girl who really like heavy make-up and falsie eyebrows. She was doing this when she met OP and she is doing it now. This is not a new behavior. OP hates it. She doesn't want to stop doing it. What was the point of OP getting with a girl who had pre-defined traits and him wanting her to change them? It's stupid.

[Krankor]

Girl: Do you like my hair better up, or down?

Any guy who internalizes the messages in this thread: "I'm sorry, but it's not my place to render an opinion on that because that would be unfairly pressuring you to conform to my preferences. Your hair is perfect in any orientation. Unfortunately I just discovered that you squeeze the toothpaste from the middle instead of the back. It really bothers me but it would be abusive to have a discussion with you about how much it bothers me because that might feel like pressure for you to conform to my preferences. This clearly means that I don't love and accept you for you, so I'm leaving you. Best of Luck finding the person that doesn't have a single habit or quirk that annoys you."

 

I think what it comes down to is the difference between stating an opinion and making your preferences known vs. pressuring someone until they change and you get your way.

[True Story]

Girl: Do you like my hair better up, or down?

Any guy who internalizes the messages in this thread: "I'm sorry, but it's not my place to render an opinion on that because that would be unfairly pressuring you to conform to my preferences. Your hair is perfect in any orientation. Unfortunately I just discovered that you squeeze the toothpaste from the middle instead of the back. It really bothers me but it would be abusive to have a discussion with you about how much it bothers me because that might feel like pressure for you to conform to my preferences. This clearly means that I don't love and accept you for you, so I'm leaving you. Best of Luck finding the person that doesn't have a single habit or quirk that annoys you."

 

In that case has asked for an opinion. She is not being told multiple time I don't like this this and this. You look better like this, I prefer this. Of course he is allowed to have on opinion. But he is going beyond having an opinion. He wants to change multiple things about her that she wants to remain the same.

[mustlovedogs]

It comes down to withholding and threats. If a guy said "I really prefer your hair up!" its one thing. But if he says "I won't take you out unless you put your hair up", it's controlling.

 

Telling her to shave or he won't go down on her is controlling.

 

Telling her all the time to do or change something is controlling.