Another online daing journal

[reinventmyself]

Why does she still have mail coming to his home, 8 months after having moved out?

 

Idk.... It doesn't sit well with me either. Concerns for each of you are natural ones, if not justified. Only thing you can really do is trust that he wants you and will continue to make sure you're aware of that. Same thing you can do for him, in regards to your male friend.

 

At the end of the conversation I told him my attitude I try to live by:

 

Basically. . People ARE going to be with who they want to be with. I can't drill it down any more simplistic that that.

If I want to be with you. . I will. . If you want to be with me or not. . you have free will to make that choice.

 

(Same thing for someone wanting to break in your house. . they will if they want to)

 

All the extra extraneous stuff is just noise.

 

As for the mail . . .Yep. . I was lookin' through her new mail order catalogs on Sunday. Meh'

[WithLove]

That I believe to be crossing boundaries, in all honesty. There's no reason for her to be receiving mail still. She should have completed a change of address months ago, and he should be writing "does not live here" on the mail and putting them back in his box for the mail carrier to take back. All of her mail would eventually trickle down until nothing is sent there... and it doesn't take 8 months for that to happen. What gives?

[WithLove]

I agree with you about people being with who they want. When my ex C cheated on me, I finally understood that... people are people, and they are going to do what they want, sometimes regardless of the consequences. It wasn't my fault that he chose to cheat. It wasn't my fault that he chose not to just come to me and tell me he wanted out of the relationship. I can't be brave for other people - just for myself. You know?

[reinventmyself]

I get what you're saying.

Though my son is currently living with me again, I still got some of his mail a year after he left the first time.

 

I really can't say much about it. They had an amicable break up and I couldn't possibly keep him in a bubble.

[reinventmyself]

I agree with you about people being with who they want. When my ex C cheated on me, I finally understood that... people are people, and they are going to do what they want, sometimes regardless of the consequences. It wasn't my fault that he chose to cheat. It wasn't my fault that he chose not to just come to me and tell me he wanted out of the relationship. I can't be brave for other people - just for myself. You know?

 

Gotcha. .I've spend so much of my energy trying to trust people. That energy is best learning to trust myself and being able to handle what ever comes my way.

[reinventmyself]

. . I suppose it helps to know what she's an unemployed alcoholic. (according to him)

He says the only reason why she wants to reconcile is because she wants someone to take care of here.

I couldn't be any more opposite. . I have a hard time letting anyone do things for me.

 

But heck. . he was attracted to her for a reason right?

And if he's the kinda guy who needs a project, then he's not the right man for me.

[notalady]

The mail thing reminds me a lot of Z's situation with his ex, if you can recall. She kept finding excuses to see him and contact him, likely wanted to get back together. To me it's a boundary issue, as in he wasn't able to establish proper boundaries after break up.

 

I didn't realise S just came out of a 10 year relationship for 8 months, it does sound pretty soon. I think he should've taken more time to recover from the break up and get everything sorted. Anyway, I really hope he doesn't turn into a Z, for the lack of a better way to phrase it lol...

[Ms Darcy]

All in all. . he's really consistent. . I never question his whereabouts or intentions.

Still makes me nervous. . nonetheless. Could I be a rebound?

 

Yes, you could be a rebound.

[reinventmyself]

I guess it comes with the territory.

The more you become invested the more you fear to lose.

It's the ex gf situation that has me feeling anxious.

 

He hasn't given me reason.

My past experiences have.

Just trying to ride this out . .

[faraday]

I think it depends on how it ended. I broke up with my daughters father and was dating the week after. It was over for a few years before I had the courage to tell him I was out.

 

Why is this coming up now?

[WithLove]

I think it depends on how it ended. I broke up with my daughters father and was dating the week after. It was over for a few years before I had the courage to tell him I was out.

 

Why is this coming up now?

 

Yes, but if anyone on here posted a thread about dating a week after leaving their ex, everyone would say that it would be way too soon. Even if you were checked out for years, cutting the physical tie to him likely opens emotional ones. Obviously not in every case, like yours, but that's what happened in mine with J, and it happens a whole lot.

[reinventmyself]

I think it depends on how it ended. I broke up with my daughters father and was dating the week after. It was over for a few years before I had the courage to tell him I was out.

 

Why is this coming up now?

 

Probably due to what I mentioned. I feel I have something at stake now.

 

I also tend to get a little anxious at the 3 month mark. I have personal experiences and in watching others, 3 months tend to be a milestone of sorts. The high starts to wean off some and what you actually have begins to come into focus.

 

I can't help but think for him I am the first relationship he's had since his last 10 year relationship. I have been a new fun toy of sorts, as well as he has been for me. But mostly for him there has been a lot of new experiences he hasn't had in a very long time. I think his high has been a little higher than mine, if that makes sense. Things become more apparent and this is typically where relationships turn a corner onto another phase or fade.

It's just part of the process.

 

That and knowing more about his past relationship that I wish I didn't know.

Because the more I know the more I realize I could very well be rebound.

[reinventmyself]

I am looking forward to this weekend.

I've been feeling a little less anxious by mid day yesterday and today.

Probably due to going out with my friends last night. . reminding myself that I have a good life outside of a relationship.

That and there are just some things that are out of my control and no matter what I will be ok.

I sat back and let him reach out to me yesterday and he was his normal warm, fuzzy self.

We chatted last night when I got home and he's excited to see me, as I am him.

[notalady]

Probably due to what I mentioned. I feel I have something at stake now.

 

I also tend to get a little anxious at the 3 month mark. I have personal experiences and in watching others, 3 months tend to be a milestone of sorts. The high starts to wean off some and what you actually have begins to come into focus.

 

I can't help but think for him I am the first relationship he's had since his last 10 year relationship. I have been a new fun toy of sorts, as well as he has been for me. But mostly for him there has been a lot of new experiences he hasn't had in a very long time. I think his high has been a little higher than mine, if that makes sense. Things become more apparent and this is typically where relationships turn a corner onto another phase or fade.

It's just part of the process.

 

That and knowing more about his past relationship that I wish I didn't know.

Because the more I know the more I realize I could very well be rebound.

 

I think it's normal to feel a bit anxious around the 3 months mark, I did too for the very same reason you mentioned. But I think logically, we all know if there is in fact any rational cause for concern. I think in your case, there is. Whether you choose to bring that up or not is of course up to you. I remember feeling very uncomfortable and anxious about the fact that Z's ex still tried to lean on him so much and he never cut her off. Not because I thought he wasn't over her or would get back with her, I thought he was very much into me, but I think it just highlighted the difference in our value and boundaries and that's what was making me uncomfortable.

 

I doubt you're a rebound, he seems very into you, but that doesn't say much about whether he's ready for another serious relationship. That also doesn't say much about if your values and boundaries are similar.

[reinventmyself]

There are so many threads about ex's returning.

I often contribute but all this talk makes me reflect on my own boundaries and why exactly do I allow them to reappear and honestly what do I get out of it? Thanks to ENA I challenge myself more about such things.

 

It's been 2 yrs since I last spoke to R. I dated him for a few months and ultimately ended it due to a lack of chemistry and connection. Much like Mark he was even more closed off and I naively thought in time things might change.

But in R's case something didn't sit right with me. A couple times he received a text and while looking at his phone spontaneously I couldn't help but see someone was sexting him. Scantily clad, headless woman . .some other things didn't add up. His reluctance to ever marry. He didn't care for kids and dogs.

 

Why did I got out with him? I enjoyed his company and we had similar likes. Much like with Mark I wasn't really ready for a relationship and their emotional unaviability had a guaranteed outcome. It will go no where.

I reconciled with the ex bf and said good bye to R 2 yrs ago this month.

 

I don't know what made me do it. . but with a gut feeling I started digging around websites and found R on an adult website suited for webcams and naked pictures. On a scale of 1 to 10 this site is a solid 9 for skankiness. Every once in a while I would log on and see that he was actually on the website 7 nights a week. Sometimes all weekend. Once I saw him masturbating on on a web cam. I almost dropped my laptop and I text him his user name just to let him know I knew and yes, to embarrass him.

 

I spend sometime considering my poor choices in men and feeling a little rattled and embarrassed.

A few days ago I get a text from an unknown number. It was a picture of a book `sex after 50' I figure it was one of my gf's being silly. I asked who it was and R responded. 'new number, new job, new car' `do you have a boyfriend?' Me: yes, sorta.

R: Do you want to go on a date or am I bothering you?

D: You aren't bothering me, how are you and maybe we can just meet for coffee sometime.

He sends me (text) kisses. Ewww. . why do I feel he just asked for hookup?

 

STOP right there. . What am I doing? What is my honest motivation here? Is this someone I want in my life? .Uh No.

There is that little voice that somehow feels the validation of the attention from someone after you think you've both moved on?

Surely I have better self esteem to feel otherwise validated by other things other than R, who comes off creepy and strange.

I consider all the doors I have left open for that same reason.

I've often considering it a compliment. . .rethinking my actions and motives.

[saluk]

You're human! Attention, even sometimes from someone you don't like, feels good. Heck, sometimes the fact that you DON'T like them makes it better. Whatever he ended up being for you, there was something that attracted you to him, and you can always get caught up in old feelings. It's so easy.

 

That's why you have to trust your brain and not your feelings. If your nervous system is going crazy, try to calm it down and not act until you think it through.

 

I think you have a hard time saying no. Don't think of it as saying no or shutting someone down, but saying yes and turning toward someone else, a better future. I don't know if that's your current bf, but maybe it will help for now to put him in that position. Who do I like more, R or S? If you are even leaning toward S at all, turn toward S - and away from R. Leaving so many doors open... it's just another way of leaving the right door closed.

 

Also, maybe the fact that S may be dealing with ex issues is prompting you to follow his lead here.

[reinventmyself]

Thanks Saluk. .

Yah, no comparison between S and R. No worries there.

When you posed the question I had to ask myself if S wasn't in the picture would I meet R? Yes I would, but for nothing else than friendship and possibly one time only.

Why I ask myself?. Probably out of boredom and wanting attention.

Clearly I need more hobbies!

And I think I'm the one dealing with his ex issues, not S.

Another case of over thinking things and yet another argument for hobbies

[reinventmyself]

I notice S is really on top of making me feel 'desired' He's very generous playful physical and sexual references but I noticed the heartfelt, feeling things fall a little short.

I can text him that I miss him and though I don't do so for a desired response, after sometime and it not being reciprocal I stop doing it and take notice. It got me thinking yesterday as I attempted again just a simple, miss you at the end of texting and he didn't respond to it. Ack. . feeling awkward and I start over thinking.

 

I didn't plan on saying anything, rather decided to wait. Because after all his actions tell me what I need to know.

If I did say something it would be in person and not over the phone.

 

S typically calls at my bed time. Half way through the conversation he spontaneously said something very endearing and thoughtful which was somewhat out of character for him and it caught me off guard.

I thanked him for saying it and spilled all my thoughts. He was surprised to hear me say so because his interpretation of what was going on was so different.

He said that this had been an issue in his previous relationships and with me he felt he was making a conscious effort to do things differently. I told him it's probably the same sentiment, we just express it differently. But after a weeks of innocent sexual references and no responses to my `feeling' comments I was taking notice. He felt bad and said he would look at his texts when we hung up.

We hung up and I did scour through the texts over the past couple weeks.

yah. . there is enough material on there to support my feelings.

He was very sincere though about not either not being aware and honestly thought he was doing things in a different way then in his past.

This morning I get a good morning , miss you madly text. . minus the comment about how cute he thinks my butt is. . .Boys!

[WithLove]

But I think it's important to remember that men are very visual, and for him to mention your cute butt is pretty good. I totally get where you're coming from. He needs to know that you're reaching for things that mean more than a physical element, and not getting that. I think he'll respond and make efforts to give you what you're needing right now.

 

All of the things you've questioned or found lacking, he has addressed and fixed. How do you feel about that?

[Ms Darcy]

Glad you were able to express your feelings and feel heard.

[reinventmyself]

All of the things you've questioned or found lacking, he has addressed and fixed. How do you feel about that?

 

Having read that I had to go reread what I've written. I suppose that's the nature of journals as we have said before. We tend to not come and gush about the good things but rather bounce of any bad or misunderstood items to get clarity.

 

Having said that things are going really well. It's probably one of the most mature, if not the most mature and respectful relationships I have been in. He clearly hears me and doesn't get defensive and in turn I get thoughtful, empathic responses.

 

Something I so am not used to, always wanted and because of this his value goes up every day!

[reinventmyself]

I spent 3 days with S over the weekend. Friday night we had our first argument.

 

What I have learned over the years about listening and being empathic and what I would want in return when I share my feelings with someone, I'd like to believe I am able to give someone the same in return.

 

S and I had had a talk a couple weeks ago where he shared with me some things he is sensitive about it. I hadn't done anything wrong but he wanted to let me know that he had a reaction to a couple of things.

 

One for example (just to give some theme to the discussion) is I had playfully mentioned that he was `being a typical guy' more than once. He took a little offense to this and though I don't really understand why and understand or agreeing why isn't what mattered in the moment, I accepted it bothered him and thanked him for sharing that with me. I listened, I let him know I heard him and I won't be saying it again. That along with a couple other things of that nature I heard him out respectfully and my recollection is I was very empathic. Now two weeks later he mentions I didn't take accountability for these very things and apologize. huh?

 

Now we are splitting hairs about this and I though I didn't say the exact words 'I am sorry' I thought that I had addressed his concerns respectfully and I didn't actually do something I needed to apologize for and how if I understood and had empathy for his feelings, how he would consider my response to be unaccountable??

 

This discussion started Friday night when he brought my earlier comment about the my `feeling' texts vs his `sexual flirty' texts. Again, when I shared that with him I prefaced it with he didn't owe me an apology and didn't do anything wrong. .it was just a feeling I was having and I wanted to say it out loud. Now suddenly S is the victim and I guess my stating how I felt in the moment was not a good thing.

Basically I am defending myself and I caught myself and just shut down. Ack!! . this is familiar dynamic in my past relationships and I am trying to discern how much of this is me and how much is his.

 

So all in all. . S can share his feelings on things and I need to say I am sorry.

(empathy isn't the same as an apology even if you didn't do anything wrong?)

I share my feeling on one subject and S feels victimized?

When exactly do I get my moment??

 

Like a light switch, I go from enamored - to - done and I don't want to do the hard part that comes with relationships and I tell him after flailing about, we aren't hearing each other.

 

I keep hearing in my mind a comment he made about his last relationship `even when she was wrong, she couldn't admit it' hmmmm.

 

At some point I am ready to head the 90 minute drive home because honestly I have had enough.

 

When he realized this had gone too far and I was serious about leaving he said a couple things to me that tells me he heard me and understood a couple things I had said.

He asks if in that moment if there is any progress. I repeat back that he heard me on a couple things and I feel a little better.

 

With a smirk on his face he says `oh, so you are fine now that I've rolled over on a couple things?'

 

I start to cry. . `how is it when I give you something and let you know I heard and understood you, that's ok and I feel good about it. But when you give me something in return and you say you've heard me, you feel you've - lost'

"If this is about winning and losing, then I need to go"

 

He hugs me and asks me not to leave. He says he really wants to learn from this.

After a long silence I shared with him that I spent the last hour trying listen and understand, whereas I felt he spent the last hour trying to win.

Somehow we managed to get through weekend.

 

The downside to LDR's . . you just can't run away. . or go get some space and objectivity.

I dunno . .if this indeed is a dynamic for us. .it's a deal breaker for sure.

 

We pushed through the weekend but there's a shift. . at least for me.

S shifted into damage control, trying too hard mode.

I tried to compartmentalize the argument and focus on the good.

Today I am at work and he's gone home.

Add in a dose of my mom in the hospital and dragging S around to take care of business, it wasn't the best of weekends.

Hoping some time and space will give me some balance.

[browneyedgirl36]

Reinventmyself, I looked back at your journal to see where you began dating S (I couldn't remember, but I thought it hadn't been long). It's only been since November, so not even three months. At this stage, especially long distance, when you aren't seeing each other 24/7, it seems too early for these kinds of intense arguments. This early on, if you are already having this kind of conflict -- where he has to "win" and you end up "losing" -- it just doesn't sound promising. When you described the argument you had over the weekend, what I took from it was that he feels very justified in explaining things YOU have done that have upset him, and he expects you to listen (which you did) and offer a formal apology (which you say you didn't literally apologize, but you DID say you understood, empathized, etc). On the other hand, if YOU have concerns, it sounds like he dismisses them -- or at least minimizes them -- until you get really upset, at which time he starts backpedaling to keep the peace, to keep you from leaving, etc. In other words, it sounds like he's just trying to placate you -- that he's not really sincere about changing his behavior. If this kind of thing is starting so early on, it's not a good sign, in my opinion, and I'd be worried about what else would reveal itself over time, particularly if you end up living closer -- or living together at some stage.

 

While relationships aren't supposed to be all sunshine and rainbows, in the first few months, at least, there shouldn't be any significant conflicts, but if there are, that's usually a good sign of incompatibility.

 

I'm not advising you to break up with him immediately or anything, but I think you may find that, if it's already starting to get rough at this stage, it will get rougher.

 

I'm sorry you're having to deal with this.

[reinventmyself]

 

While relationships aren't supposed to be all sunshine and rainbows, in the first few months, at least, there shouldn't be any significant conflicts, but if there are, that's usually a good sign of incompatibility.

 

I'm not advising you to break up with him immediately or anything, but I think you may find that, if it's already starting to get rough at this stage, it will get rougher.

 

I'm sorry you're having to deal with this.

 

Thank you for the kind words.

This dynamic seems to be the relative normal for me in relationships.

I do the `is it me or him' thing? Am I picking the same man over and over?

Is it a man vs woman thing?

Is it my years marriage counseling and personal therapy crashing into those who haven't?

He seemed empathic about some things initially and seeing I am on the look out for it, I was doing a happy dance - -initially.

Now this. .

 

I am tired and I don't feel well. . doesn't help.

I don't know much. .but what I do know is, if this a dynamic. .I am out.

Whether it's me, him or otherwise I just don't have it in me anymore

[WithLove]

Ugh.

 

I don't know. I tried coming up with a lot of different explanations for you and him.... but I keep coming back to - he is still feeling the burrs stuck from his last relationship. And without meaning to, he's making you pay for the pain they give him. Everytime you say something that reminds him of his ex, he's going to get defensive. That's how he used to react to his ex. It's not your fault. But I think no matter what happens, you'll be constantly fearing reminding him of how his ex was. And I've dealt with that before. It's exhausting.