Another online daing journal

[reinventmyself]

Thanks BEG36

[notalady]

Mark certainly seems lacking in his conflict handling skills. I think he's overly sensitive and perhaps a little insecure and that makes him less communicative when he feels inadequate or generally not being able to meet your needs.

 

It reminds me of two of my friends, both newly (and happily) married, both guys are lovely and nice decent guys. One of them is very passive and conflict avoidant, he would just agree with everything she says but not actually do what is agreed on. The other one isn't very good with his words and find it hard to express himself when he's frustrated, he'd rather punch something (not people!), she had to coach him to express himself and communicate better. Both couples made it work because by and large their personalities and values do fit.

 

What I'm saying is that a lot of people, guys in particular, aren't good with communication and conflict resolution, whether Mark's someone you can work with in that area is the question.

[reinventmyself]

I'm on my phone so not talented at quoting text but browneyedG's question about regarding what my motive for talking to the ex might be. We'll honestly if I was madly in love with Mark I imagine I wouldn't be talking to him. That realization makes me sad.

 

Today's has been hard. Marks been quiet which is normal for him on a good day. With an un resolved conflict looming I have no clue what to expect from him. Consider his being passive could he be waiting for me to fix it? Pretty sure I tried.

 

I got a couple short texts today but that's it. Seriously, if he thinks this can wait til the weekend to resolve it may very well be too late.

[testcase]

Hmmm. Hopefully he realizes he screwed up here and makes a move!! I agree with others. I think you, like me, have gotten more comfortable with things. Happier about some things you had doubts about.... but you still have doubts. Hopefully they can be resolved. If not you'll know when you know.

[reinventmyself]

So I text M this morning asking if he was considering talking to me. We have both agreed that we handle things better in person. He's pretty much avoiding the challenging conversation that sits in the room like a giant elephant but to leave me hanging for days seems cruel not to mention irresponsible.

 

His response to my text is that he's text me a couple snap chats and I in return have been quiet (texting/snapping?. . are we 12?)

 

I had to sit on this for some time to settle down . .what I wanted to say was that him snapping me picture of his frozen dinner wasn't going to replace an actual adult conversation.

But I thought better of that. .

 

A couple hours later. .I wrote: . `I love the snap chats. . but we didn't finish our conversation'

He said. . `it's hard to talk over the phone'

Me: agreed.

 

Since then I've gotten cute little stickers via FB, blowing me kisses. . .sigh

oh yah. . more snap chats of the work site he's at. .but he sends those to his coworkers as well. He just happens to check my box as well so I can see what he's doing. .

[browneyedgirl36]

I get what he's saying about having these conversations in person, but....he can't at least CALL to talk? He can send cutesy pictures and stickers all day (his frozen dinner...really?!!?) but he can't pick up the phone and at least call to talk about some issues? I don't know, reinventmyself. He sounds like he has major communication issues, especially for someone his age.

 

 

Has he even tried to set up a time to talk about your issues? It would be a solid, good faith move on his part if he did, one that, for me, would at least indicate that he's serious about working on things and not trying to avoid them. I hope he gets his act together and makes time to talk to you about this.

[reinventmyself]

I get what he's saying about having these conversations in person, but....he can't at least CALL to talk? He can send cutesy pictures and stickers all day (his frozen dinner...really?!!?) but he can't pick up the phone and at least call to talk about some issues? I don't know, reinventmyself. He sounds like he has major communication issues, especially for someone his age.

 

 

Has he even tried to set up a time to talk about your issues? It would be a solid, good faith move on his part if he did, one that, for me, would at least indicate that he's serious about working on things and not trying to avoid them. I hope he gets his act together and makes time to talk to you about this.

 

EXACTLY! so there in lies my problem.

 

I can assume we will talk on Friday. . when we typically see each other.

 

I have few things to say to him. First. . That this relationship is important to me and resolving issues is imperative and I would have been on his doorstep to see that everything was resolved and not have left things unsaid for a week. And if I suspect he is upset for any reason I want to get the bottom of it asap. I expect the same in return.

 

Secondly. . I don't ever use the term `break up' unless I am prepared to do so. He threw it out over text a couple times `if I treat you so badly then break up with me'.. First off I never said he treated me badly rather he wasn't handling this conflict responsibly.

 

I will share with him during my marriage my ex used to say immature things like that for shock value. I didn't realize it until I actually said it (breakup) after 18 years, it was the first and last time I ever said it because I did indeed act on it.

[reinventmyself]

Last night M texts me. . Are you still my girlfriend? (sad that he has to ask)

I waited a moment or two and responded. `hard to tell lately'

He asked to see me Friday night. .

Problem for me is that in the moment I am upset . .I go to feeling hurt.. then angry. .then I being to detach because I don't like the discomfort of an unresolved issue that I can't resolve by myself.

So I am left to do all I know how. . Get right with myself and move on.

so when he's ready to talk . . I have shut down.

[browneyedgirl36]

Last night M texts me. . Are you still my girlfriend? (sad that he has to ask)

I waited a moment or two and responded. `hard to tell lately'

He asked to see me Friday night. .

Problem for me is that in the moment I am upset . .I go to feeling hurt.. then angry. .then I being to detach because I don't like the discomfort of an unresolved issue that I can't resolve by myself.

So I am left to do all I know how. . Get right with myself and move on.

so when he's ready to talk . . I have shut down.

 

Well, I can understand why you'd shut down! You've been trying to engage him in discussion about certain issues, and he doesn't want to, but then gets all "sad" at the prospect of the relationship being over. That would shut a lot of people down, for sure.

 

I guess now you have to decide what you want to happen when you see him on Friday; what do you want to talk about, and what do you need to hear/see from him in order to be able to move forward with the relationship. And, what do you plan to do if he DOESN'T step up and say/do what you need him to do?

 

I understand wanting to give him a fair chance to work things out, but he needs to be willing to listen and work on some things, rather than avoiding the issues and getting all 'sad' when you shut down on him because he isn't addressing your needs.

 

I hope all goes well -- let us know!

[PaintWithLight]

Last night M texts me. . Are you still my girlfriend? (sad that he has to ask)

I waited a moment or two and responded. `hard to tell lately'

He asked to see me Friday night. .

Problem for me is that in the moment I am upset . .I go to feeling hurt.. then angry. .then I being to detach because I don't like the discomfort of an unresolved issue that I can't resolve by myself.

So I am left to do all I know how. . Get right with myself and move on.

so when he's ready to talk . . I have shut down.

 

I think you deserve better than this. If a girlfriend of yours was in this exact same situation, you would tell her to cut bait in a heartbeat, right?

[reinventmyself]

I think you deserve better than this. If a girlfriend of yours was in this exact same situation, you would tell her to cut bait in a heartbeat, right?

 

Can't say I would. Relationships are not without issues. Everyone needs to determine their own deal breakers and some things are manageable. He's a really good man and has been really good to me. .Not to be confused with perfect.

 

My concern is this could very well be a deal breaker for me. . I am with holding decisions until I talk to him tomorrow. I plan on letting him speak first. .hear him out. .gage how I feel about it and then I will say my peace.

Gage his reaction and response and then I will have to make a decision.

 

I'm tend to not act impulsively but to put a lot of thought into decisions like this. Not to be confused with stalling. I am perfectly capable of pulling the plug if needed.

I just need to do this in a way that feels right by me.

 

On a side note his explanation of why his last marriage didn't work out. . First off, it was a total rebound and they really didn't know each other. Other than that he couldn't really elaborate other than she spent most of her time involved with church choir activities and he was busy working remodeling the house. I now can't help but wonder how much of this was about him shutting her out? I can only speculate. .

[notalady]

Agree with this. Not a whole lot to add, but I hope M will step up on Friday and discuss the issue with openness and honesty rather than avoidance or brushing it off.

[reinventmyself]

M came over Friday night and even though we had a productive, healthy conversation and came up with some guidelines so this doesn't happen in the future. .I feel my feelings have cooled so much I don't know if I can get them back. We had a light dinner, sat and talked and with that I sent him home.

 

The distance has allowed me to detach to this point. I explained to him that I don't operate like a light switch, that I have detached and checked out and it would take about the same amount time we've been apart to get back on track. . if it's possible. Add in he had to work yesterday and most of the day today we really haven't spent much time together in the last 9 days. Our schedules are such we don't see each other during the work week so another week will pass. This weekend job isn't typical but it's timing came as a blessing and curse I suppose

 

So things are up for renegotiation. Not sure where we stand. At least I feel better that we got to talk, respectfully.

 

I spent some time with the ex bf yesterday. I had an idea of which way to take the conversation so I could see behind the nice `I want you back, I've changed' veneer and I barely had to poke him to get the answers I needed. I saw the flickers of the old B, along with his controlling views that I am convinced he truly owns and is working on. After all he has lost every relationship over this and he knows it. But I for one am not up for the ride. I know full well these things are a process and not something you wish away. Though he would like me to believe otherwise. But I am smarter than I look

 

So here I sit. .In my peaceful quiet home drinking a cup of coffee and processing all that's transpired over the weekend. Sadly, I am not right for either of these men. .nor are they right for me. I have no qualms about how to deal with B.

 

M on the other hand pains me. . I don't need to act on this this morning. . It's not like I'll see him in the next few days.

[reinventmyself]

Not much has changed.

 

I waffle between having a great time with M on weekends and appreciating everything about him, to not knowing what I want.

I keep telling myself on a daily basis: Honestly, there isn't a decision to made, so why fret? It's not like I see him very much anyway.

His new job has him spread so thin.

 

It doesn't help that talking to the ex is a constant reminder on how intense chemistry with someone should feel. I am trying to learn something about myself and what I am attracted to. Those with that electric chemistry have not been good choices for me.

 

So what is that chemistry?. . Something I can't have or maybe it's intense drama and not intense chemistry?

 

B (ex) is controlling and M is passive. . . .In comparison to what I am used to, maybe M's more normal than he is passive. What do I know?

 

M is a steady calm. . something I am not accustomed to. It doesn't help that we don't see each other during the week and he absolutely hates to talk on the phone. It's pointless to try because he's so awkward on the phone anyway. He texts, snap chats all day so as much as I know he's thinking of me it doesn't replace a real conversation. By the end of the week I feel so disconnected to him, I could easily walk away.

 

In comparison to the ex who emails me all day. Ironic as it is I feel more connected to him just sharing the daily antics of life throughout the day. But hmmph. .I am not dating him.

 

All in all . . I am not terribly concerned about what will happen or what's around the corner. It feels odd in way to not be attached to any sort of outcome.

 

No matter how this plays out I'll be fine.

[notalady]

Sometimes I feel the same in "what do I know". Maybe I'm being blindly optimistic haha, but I think there is a happy middle between controlling and passive. I don't think your views of M being passive is wrong. You shouldn't date men like your ex but maybe men like M are also not suited for you. Somewhere out there, there's that "happy middle" guy and I think if you want that you should go find it rather than settling for "good enough".

[reinventmyself]

. . Thx NL. Hoping I find the courage to trash all this and start over and trust that it's the right thing to do.

[reinventmyself]

Dear B,

So round four, what did I learn?

That you are indeed a Narcissist. I guess it was the lesson I needed to learn again. After my marriage I committed to spotting your type and it’s rattles me to my core that you got past me. . at least initially.

 

Did I know you were an N?. . No. .but I knew something was seriously off. I am saddened and shaken I had to pay a therapist money to tell me something I should have known. But from this point on I will work at forgiving myself.

 

So my day with you yesterday . I watched as I spoke and you glazed over with my conversations, much like G and M (other N’s in my life) do because they are rarely if ever are actively listening. You even excused yourself and walked away while I was midsentence. Midsentence in some benign question you yourself had asked me.

 

I find it fascinating when your own friends say things that make me sit straight up:

Yesterday -Mark: I can tell he’s rarely listening to me anyway. (or something to that effect)

 

You in an arrogant way demanding to speak to the manager about the $4 plate splitting fee. . ugh.

 

I am tired this morning and haven’t had time to gather all my thoughts and replay the inane conversation we had last night before I walked out.

But the comments about `How my mind works’ and the moment you said. `if you only understood how my mind works and you could adjust yourself to the that’

I repeated the same sentence back to you changing the names so you could hear how inane it sounded.

 

We recounted history once again and as I am asking you if you understood that round 4 was a mere four months and based on my other rounds it shouldn’t be a surprise that I was taking my time learning to trust your intentions and allowing things to unfold. (rereading again how N's show up/want and instant relationship/and act as if nothing has happened) Your response was that for you: You knew. therefore in that moment it should have been 100%. But sharing how I felt was different. .but according to you, I am wrong in the my handling my part.

 

You admitting over and over that you are controlling by nature (like a badge of honor) and I should just be more open to your `help’ and not take it so personally.

In reliving the bike moment I am sharing as an adult woman, I don’t need someone barking at me how to ride a bike. But in turn, you say you knew the path and was helping. If it was just that in itself, I could overlook it but the pervasive tone that I am lesser than, not knowing, not capable, the harsh condensation in your means to`help’ or corrections and the rules was just too much for me. You promise that tho you can't change being controlling you will work on your tone. . (??)

 

Then the final comments. .cancer/gemini relationship . did you read it?. .did you ever read it?. .we should read it together

. . yes, yes, and yes we did.

When I get quiet you become somewhat offended that I don't take the horoscope connection seriously. I respond that (I don't dare say what I am really thinking) "why is it when I have something concrete of concern on the table it is glossed over by a connections to horoscopes?"

 

Basically, I can’t nor do I want to recall the mad mess of the enitire volleying conversation we had. I don’t feel heard and you counter everything I say. It so reminds me of my ex husband, where each conversation felt as if I was riding a wild bronco bull.

 

Ending with the best part. . “Well, maybe you have a problem”

I got up. .got my purse and said `Good luck with that, B’ and walked out.

 

I got a text on my way home something about an ending and like my therapist shared with me. . `he's so controlling and narcissistic, he needs to be in control of the ending too' This fact used to really bother me but now I expect it. .It doesn't even matter I walked out once again. .you need to get in the last word so you can feel better about it all.

 

I think of all the snarky, pointed responses I could say. . The nice ones, the sad ones. .But I know better. It's all wasted energy. Besides, I don't want to do you any favors in learning how to treat a partner. Continue on with whatever way suites you because you will anyway. . ~good luck with that'

 

So ..a year later, I got my answers, my closure and hopefully I have learned some more valuable lessons here. One's I thought I learned along time ago.

 

. . and for anyone that's been in a relationship with a narcissist. .it is like a bad trip to the dark side. It's not something to get over or work through easily. It really changes who you are.

 

I am greatful I didn't `go there' with him again. But just being in his presence and reliving our entire relationship has me a little off balance lately. Luckily not enough to have any lasting effect. Just another lesson I needed to learn again. I can close this door tightly and an finally move on.

[reinventmyself]

I thought it best to update here in my journal rather than the public forum. I've been in emotional hibernation mode trying to center myself and realized that further input from those who don't know the whole picture wasn't the best idea. I didn't want or need to spend my time defending myself when I just needed objective honest feedback.

 

Exactly what I didn’t want to happen, happened. M showed up we were rushed to get to dinner and ended up in a really crowded restaurant and ate a quick dinner at the bar. Not conducive of an intimate conversation.

From there we met up with my friends and had a nice eve. .BUT

For me there were some unresolved issues. We hadn’t communicated all week and as much as he might have liked to I wasn’t going to just brush this under the rug.

Back at my house, late at night I share with him that I would like him to stay the night but we won’t be intimate. He asked why and I told him that we hadn’t had a chance to talk all week and I was hoping to before or during dinner but after a couple drinks and it being late at night, having it then wasn’t a good idea. It was best kept for the morning.

I shouldn’t have been surprised that he got defensive and insisted on leaving . . He interpreted `a talk’ as referring to the details of his divorce.

I tried to share with him that I didn’t want to talk about ‘that.’ So the conversation that I didn’t want to do at that time was now unfolding because if we weren’t talking about `that’ what we were talking about? I tried to give him only the theme and it wasn’t going well.

 

I tried to get him to stay . . he had a few beers and lives maybe 30 min’s away. Given the holiday, getting on the freeway was a terrible idea. Besides, I don’t bite and I thought I was being reasonable.

 

Anyway the limited conversation was hot mess of passive aggressive comments from him and really reacting again like a cornered animal. He actually lashed out a couple comments that were just uncalled for. He’s done this once before and I see him doing it as shock value to get me to back down. Sadly I am not really doing much of anything other than informing him that we needed to talk in the morning and gaging is reaction. The very thing that will be a deal breaker is happening again.

I just let him go. As it turns out he sat in his car for a couple hours.

I didn’t sleep all night and now it’s the 4th of July and I have a couple different options with friends. I need to plan my day and he’s silent. I am tired, distressed and don’t know what to do so I text him midday asking if I could come over and talk.

 

I said everything I wanted to say and he didn’t have much to say in return. I don’t know if he heard me. . how and if it even registered. For the most part I just limited it to the intense reactions I see in him and the challenge of feeling close and connected to him was as much as a challenge as it ever was.

 

I didn’t end the relationship. I am too much of a coward at the moment. . I left. The day was pretty much ruined and I didn’t see my friends. I actually drove up to one friend’s house for a gathering and realized I wasn’t going to be very good company and didn't get out of my car and left.

 

I am always surprised at the level of anxiety I feel when ending relationships. One would think I’d be good at it by now, but with each one under my belt it just gets harder. Basically, I don’t want to face that anxiety. Not sure why I feel this way because outside of an activity partner, we aren’t emotionally connected. However, it still feels the same.

 

Sunday morning he asks if I will go for a bike ride. I agreed.

4 hours, not much talking and alot of riding and people watching and with that he went back home.

 

When I am stressed it takes me time alone to settle down. I need to make decisions when I am centered.

 

I haven't talked to him since. Nothing more than the typical texts. Which for us is our relative normal.

After some time to reflect I have come to these conclusions. On the few occasions I tried to talk to him about things that are important to me such as:

 

*the desire for him to connect with my son who lives with me. (He doesn't say word in my son's presence or try to engage him, long story) (he took as criticism)

*my attempts to connect with him and know more intimate details of his life (he took as prying)

*my attempts of letting him know what makes me happy sexually (he took as criticism)

 

It's one thing to want an intimate connection with someone and not get it. It's another problem when someone gets angry when you try to do so. I am now at a point I don't know what is safe to discuss, besides the weather.

 

I know what I need to do but the process of letting go takes me time. .

 

Last night he texts me. .(because after all he hates to talk on the phone and we don't see each other during the week)

M: We don't seem close lately

D: It seems I have tried but I feel shut out. I think you and I may have a different definition of `close'

 

Be gentle in your responses. . I am pretty raw still. . .

[notalady]

So sorry to hear about all this reinventmyself. I think the writing is on the wall and has been for a while.

 

It's one thing to want an intimate connection with someone and not get it. It's another problem when someone gets angry when you try to do so. I am now at a point I don't know what is safe to discuss, besides the weather.

 

This essentially sums it up.

 

I think there's nothing I can tell you that you didn't already know. I'd say just take your time to gather your thoughts alone and keep contact to a minimum during this time. Then follow through with whatever you decide on (I think we all know what that will be!).

 

Lots of hugs!

[reinventmyself]

So sorry to hear about all this reinventmyself. I think the writing is on the wall and has been for a while.

 

 

 

This essentially sums it up.

 

I think there's nothing I can tell you that you didn't already know. I'd say just take your time to gather your thoughts alone and keep contact to a minimum during this time. Then follow through with whatever you decide on (I think we all know what that will be!).

 

Lots of hugs!

 

Thanks notalady,

 

He's asked to see me tomorrow night.

I am already on the road of detachment. I don't want this to set me back on the progress I have made already.

But he deserves to be heard out. Then there are always the what if's. . What if he does `get's it'?

I have gone from wondering what it would take to get him to open up to wondering if he is even willing and ultimately realizing, he's not able. So honestly, I know better.

Uhg!

Anybody else I would end it by text or go dark.

Not this one.

 

thx for the hugs. . much appreciated

[notalady]

I also lean towards he's not capable of connecting at a deeper level, emotionally and also intellectually (as you observed early on in dating).

 

I don't think it's a good idea to meet tomorrow, but that may very well push you towards making up your mind about breaking up if he demonstrates once again his incapability to connect. So it's up to you.

 

Having been with someone who I couldn't connect with, I think it's lonelier (and frustrating) being in the relationship than being alone, and I think you see that too. I'm sure you'll end up making the right decision!

[reinventmyself]

I also lean towards he's not capable of connecting at a deeper level, emotionally and also intellectually (as you observed early on in dating).

 

I don't think it's a good idea to meet tomorrow, but that may very well push you towards making up your mind about breaking up if he demonstrates once again his incapability to connect. So it's up to you.

 

Having been with someone who I couldn't connect with, I think it's lonelier (and frustrating) being in the relationship than being alone, and I think you see that too. I'm sure you'll end up making the right decision!

 

Thanks NL. . . I think I need to see `it' again to solidify my feelings.

No doubt `it' will come out in a challenging conversation.

I don't want to second guess myself and feel the pull to run back.

 

And you're right about the loneliness part. .I experienced that in my marriage so I know that dynamic.

[reinventmyself]

I saw M last night and we talked.

 

I really laid everything on the line for him. I told him that I respect our differences but in the end I couldn't continue unless he was able to open up and let me in.

It is ultimately what I need to sustain a relationship.

 

I also brought up the emotional intense reactions and after explaining to him what I meant in the moments in comparison to what his knee jerk reaction was, he said he could understand and it was something he could work on.

 

Now. . I know at this point in my life to accept people as they are. Someone's emotional temperament is hardwired and not easily changed if not impossible.

 

He was actually very thoughtful and articulate which surprised me and shared some things with me but in the end I suspect this will be short lived. Having just said that I know I have a tendency at moments like this to only focus on the negative. There are a lot of positives about him, but unfortunately I don't think we are meant for each other.

 

So I am giving it to the end of the month or the next outburst, which ever comes first and I am out.

I am actually emotionally out right now. . He knows this about me, that I don't bounce back easily and he's really understanding of this as well.

 

Most might ask, why not end it now? Well, I don't have much to lose. Because of our schedules, I may see him 5 or 6 times between now and the end of the month.

I can see once and for all if we can adjust or not and not have any second thoughts.

 

In between, my life goes on. It really has all along as we pretty much lead separate lives anyway.

[reinventmyself]

The outburst happened faster than I could have imagined.

 

When we were talking Thurs I mentioned my friend in town the following night and with 3 birthdays total I would be meeting my friends the following night. He wasn't too happy that I didn't `give him more notice' because we typically see each other on Friday nights. But here I was visiting him on an impromptu Thurs so I didn't think it was a big deal. But I respect it was important to him. If it were me, I wouldn't have minded but afterall I am not him. Besides, if speaking each to other during the week wasn't such a challenge he might have known sooner.

 

Saturday morning he informs me he had been out with his friend the night before and had too much to drink and was hung over and tired. I asked to see him but we agreed to reach out later that day to see how he feels. It's 2 oclock and I reach out and his response was if I couldn't wait for an answer than I should go ahead and make plans with my friends. Uhg. Not sure if I he's sincere and paying me back for seeing my friends the night before, but neither is ok. Especially in light of everything. . more time apart isn't helping.

 

I invite my gf over to watch a movie and he continues to text me asking me what I doing. I just told him I was busy. After all he could have hung out with me but he often takes the route of being passive aggressive or a martyr. I have no patience for this at this point. I get my 'busy' answer was p-a as well but I felt as if he was checking up on me.

 

Sunday morning he texts wanting to come over and talk. . ugh. . I am all about talking. But at this point I have had my fill of drama.

So we are texting . . bad idea, I know and it doesn't go well.

He tells me again to break up with him. Later that day I invite him over and he says no `because he didn't want to argue anymore'

My response `I wasn't planning on arguing, but ok'

 

I am not sure where we stand at the moment we haven't spoken and I continue to get sad little text stickers from him and recently he text a picture of us together. It all feels so high schoolish.

 

I am having a really hard time letting this go and second guessing myself. . . Hoping that putting this in writing helps.

 

Limbo is not a good place for me either but I refuse to ask where we stand. Besides I would likely not get a straight answer.

[notalady]

He's being really passive aggressive, including with the stickers. It's childish. Seriously you don't need any more of this. I'd suggest making up your mind very soon, I think you've seen enough to decide?