Another online daing journal

[happpybear]

Yes. .I will have to have this talk with him again.

He still throws out the `L' word even after I asked him to dial back. I guess he may have refrained for a day or two and now it's back on.. . hmm if he even refrained I may have missed it.

I guess I need to be more specific.

I do feel pressured. and maybe a little `bought' right now.

 

Notalady is right, the more you retreat, the more he will continue to go over the top to win you. I think it's an insecurity/anxiety based reaction. Do you find him to be overly sensitive too?

[reinventmyself]

Notalady is right, the more you retreat, the more he will continue to go over the top to win you. I think it's an insecurity/anxiety based reaction. Do you find him to be overly sensitive too?

 

Yup. .

 

Yah. .I know what's going on . . because I've been him. I don't typically act on it and have more self control but when you feel someone is out of reach or pulling away it makes you anxious.

Having said that I really try to let him know I have the same goal and try to move towards him... I feel he may swallow me up whole sometimes. .

[notalady]

Notalady is right, the more you retreat, the more he will continue to go over the top to win you. I think it's an insecurity/anxiety based reaction. Do you find him to be overly sensitive too?

 

I think it is exactly that, insecurity/anxiety based reaction. He's brain probably keeps going what more can I do what more can I do!

 

I think you need to be very specific with what you expect him to do or not do when you said dial it back. It may seem intuitive to you and me what this means, and what he should be doing, but you'll be surprised different people interpret it differently. When I said I wanted to slow things down, my bf thought I meant I wanted to see him less (at the time we were going out twice a week). I said no I'm fine with that, it's just the lovey dovey stuff that made me feel pressured. See not everyone interpret things the same way, which is especially true between men and women.

 

If he did indeed stop saying the L word for a few days then started again, perhaps he felt that was him dialing it back. Also keep in mind he may be afraid that if he stops showing affection (whatever he interprets that to be), you will think he's lost interest and move on, he's trying to play a balancing act right now and not doing very well at it at all, but you also need to understand this could be the reasons behind it.

 

Also it is good to be specific about v day expectations especially when it's your first one together. I remember seeing multiple threads popped up during this last week on conflicts arising from v day and many are based on mismatched, miscommunicated expectations. So do remember that too.

[reinventmyself]

I did see him last night and I brought up the bike and the fact that I noticed a price tag under the bottom bar, only noticeable when he was putting the bike on the bike rack. He reeled his head back and said `I know I know". . then referred to his friends having given him all sorts of grief over such an extravagant gift. He recognized that it wasn't the best decision but defended that it was the first bike he saw and couldn't stop thinking of it while he continued to shop. He does like nice things and has really good taste. . so that's his defense. At the same time I could tell he was a little embarrassed.

 

We talked some more about me feeling pressured by the terms of endearment and the fact that I had asked him to dial back and let me catch up and not only did I feel this wasn't happening but it was causing me to pull back more.

 

He came back saying if he dialed too far back he was afraid he wouldn't recover. ."really?" I said . .`it sounds as if it's all or nothing". "You don't think you could manage to find a sweet spot somewhere in between?" He agreed.

 

So that's where we are at. He ended up with the most intense case of hiccups I have ever seen and ended up sleeping on the couch. .

[notalady]

What does he mean he wouldn't recover?

[happpybear]

^^Ya I am wondering what he means by that too

 

I hope he can find a middle ground here. He has to realize that his approach and quick attachment would likely turn off most women...it reeks of desperation, even if that is not where it's coming from, you can be enthusiastic and keen without overkill.

[reinventmyself]

^^Ya I am wondering what he means by that too

 

I hope he can find a middle ground here. He has to realize that his approach and quick attachment would likely turn off most women...it reeks of desperation, even if that is not where it's coming from, you can be enthusiastic and keen without overkill.

 

Update. . he texts me that he wants to `talk' tomorrow. I respond. . should I be concerned? He says: Maybe.

Slightly annoyed I called him and said it's not really nice to be cryptic about something that's almost 2 days away from addressing and maybe he should consider telling me what's on his mind now or at the very least what the topic is.

 

He says it hurts him when I tell him that I don't want him to not share how he feels about me and if he loves me he wants to say so.

And in turn after this amount of time if I don't know how I feel about him then there is a `problem'

 

I stayed calm, yet the very word `problem' is a hot button for me and I said I would be happy to discuss this with him tomorrow but in the meantime to give some thought to stating that my timing is a `problem'. That I can fully respect where he is at and his timing and he ought to consider respecting that my timing is a difference, not right or wrong or certainly not a `problem'

 

His tone was that of defeat and surrender, as if I don't feel the way he does it hurts too much to continue. He said something to the effect that 'you don't know how you feel about me'. I quickly responded back . "but I do know how I feel about you and I make it clear to you in several ways"

 

Ack ..I am having a week. ;(

 

He does need to be reminded that if he is reserved and not very talkative, it's taking longer to get to know him. I don't fall in love with men I don't `know' and I know the difference between that and infatuation in the early stages.

 

I feel like my hand is being forced. . This will backfire.

 

He didn't respond to my last 2 texts.. hours apart. I called him and he said he just got the last one but not the previous. I told him I was just checking. .not clear on the seriousness of this and wondering if he was going dark on me between now and tomorrow night. He assured me he wasn't. . and said `I would say 'something' but you don't like it when I say it' (love you)

 

Serious? Can he leave lie for a minute? sigh

 

this suddenly feels like all or nothing.

[happpybear]

He says it hurts him when I tell him that I don't want him to not share how he feels about me and if he loves me he wants to say so.

And in turn after this amount of time if I don't know how I feel about him then there is a `problem'

 

Dude sounds high-drama. And emotionally weak. My ex was like this. He was way over invested while I was still figuring it out. He did a lot of this "we need to talk" and also felt it was problematic that I was not feeling as nvested as he was and was also very "all of nothing". My ex was high drama, very anxious personality. It was exhausting. So I totally get how you feel.

 

That I can fully respect where he is at and his timing and he ought to consider respecting that my timing is a difference, not right or wrong or certainly not a `problem'

 

If he isn't interested or able to accept that this is how you work, being patient for you, then you can walk...It's hard not to get sucked in to situations like this and feel like you need to change in order to make him feel better...I know that I got sucked into that dynamic, I wanted to feel the way he felt about me, and I put a lot of pressure on myself because he wasn't cool with going with the flow and letting things develop. I always felt forced. I should have walked away sooner than I did...

[notalady]

Agree with happybear, he is pressuring you and making you feel bad about not being at the same place emotionally, though I'm sure not intentionally but that is essentially what he's doing.

 

Z never pressured me like this, he was fully accepting of where I was, respected my requests to not "express his feelings", made no big deal out of it and just hung back and enjoyed spending time with me. That's what allowed my feelings to have the time and space to grow.

 

If he can't handle this and just take things slow, and if he just HAVE to express his feelings regardless of how you feel, then I'll say it's over.

[reinventmyself]

I see him tonight for our `talk'

 

Work's been crazy, stressful busy, my best friend and I aren't speaking. . I have the day off to see the dentist to fix a chipped tooth I am not sleeping well.

I can be pretty thoughtful and fair when discussing emotional issues when I want to. . expect when I am stressed. . my tolerance is really low right now.

Afraid I may say the wrong thing.

 

Having played the past two months over. . he's questioned and doubted things from the beginning. Now this. I am going to tell him that it's interesting that we are having 2 different experiences. I have enjoyed the past 2 mo's and in turn he seems miserable.

[notalady]

I am going to tell him that it's interesting that we are having 2 different experiences. I have enjoyed the past 2 mo's and in turn he seems miserable.

 

haha that is true!

[reinventmyself]

Mark ended up being sick all weekend. But he did rally for a couple hours to go with me to meet up with my friends and listen to a band we like Saturday night.

 

Meeting my friends is such a beta test for me. This is the second time and they love him. I also tune into how I feel when I am along side of him in this group. It's all good

 

This group of friends are really fun. .men and women, mostly unattached but very friendly, no hit ups or hook ups. . we've known each other too long for that. You would need to be open minded, secure with yourself and need a good sense of humor to fit in with this group. My last bf didn't fit in so well. Mark likes them and vice versa. I felt bad he wasn't feeling well and surprised he stayed longer than expected.

 

We didn't have our 'talk' as planned. . but rather chatted some on the phone on Friday and I think I gave him enough to think about that he backed down. As it turned out he was pretty disappointed that I had asked him to check his feelings and comments to let me catch up. He was at the point he thought he may be wasting his time and I wouldn't ever come around.

 

I won't go into all the details but I think what I said got through to him and I saw him again last night. He commented on it and it seemed to make sense to him. After everything. .he added. .'You show me all the time how much you care, I don't know how I got so hung up those 3 words. .so much so I was ready to throw in the towel. So for now, I'll wait until your ready. Sorry I pushed"

 

I smiled and told him to `enjoy the process.'

 

Huge bonus points for him right there!. . .I like him more already

[notalady]

That sounds great! Hopefully he can slow down now

[reinventmyself]

Not much has changed since my last update.

I did have a really great weekend with him last week. . sneaking up on that falling in love feeling.

 

He still makes it known that he's `there' and not bothered that I am not and still trying to catch up.

I am a little doubtful that it doesn't bother him as much as he insists.

 

So things are moving along and I am feeling really good about everything and then . .I see him mid week. He's quiet. . nervous. . I think my alter ego (conservative business suit) throws him a little. Out of work I am reeeeallly causal. Jeans, sweater, boot girl.

Can't put my finder on what got him wound up but over dinner I find myself rattling on endlessly otherwise there is that awkward silence and he's nervously shifting in his seat. I can hear myself, so I stop. . . . silence. He smiles. . more silence.

 

All this adds up to my desire and budding loving feelings crashing. .Uhg. . I am left wondering if we are right for each other, again.

 

I've tried to tell him in the past and will do so again . .that for me `connection' is everything and given his natural demeanor to be reserved I struggle feeling connected. . and connection builds attraction. Without it . . it's gone. Aside from that I know it shouldn't feel so fragile. . .that I could lose it that easily.

 

It's been a brutal couple weeks at work and I am tired and not my best self. It's not a good sign when I wake up with hives the side of my face. . Really??!!!

 

He wants to see me tonight but I am opting to staying home, alone with a movie, wine. .catch up on some rest and see if I can't rally for him for the weekend.

[notalady]

How's everything been going reinventmyself?? Haven't seen an update for a while, I assume no news is good news?

[reinventmyself]

Thx for asking

I'm afraid I'll sound like a broken record repeating g myself.

Things are going well and I continue to waffle in and out of that loving freling. I reeeealy don't want give up this though. There is so much going for it but I am concerned at times that I should feel more for him then I do.

Last night he made a couple comments where he came off a little simple (I hate saying that because I think it makes me sound arrogant)

When he does this combined with being overly nice I feel my budding feelings for him sink.

The bigger part of me doesn't want to give up on this, we are so good together on so many levels but I can't help but wonder if this will ultimately take a toll.

He's a great guy too and I don't want to waste his time.

My friends love him and keep telling to hang in there.

So. . That's all I got. More of the same

[notalady]

Good to hear an update! I was wondering hehe it's only been 3 months, so I'm not sure about the "I should feel more for him than I do" kind of thing. If you do feel love sometimes and other times not, that's pretty normal right? we can't always feel "in love" with a person all the time?

 

I've had moments where I had doubts about if me and Z are right for each other when some of his characteristics annoy me, so I made a pros and cons list, of what I like and don't like about him. I find it helped seeing things written down, it helped reminding myself what's more important to me when I see the pro list made up of positive qualities (with examples where this quality was demonstrated) that I value, and the cons list is short and actually not that big a deal in comparison.

 

It's funny I've also got 3 or 4 friends who's either met Z or seen his photos and said he seems like a really nice guy, no one of my friends ever said that about my ex lol... It's good to get that first impression view from someone else, I trust my first impression / gut feel about someone a lot (not solely but a lot), my experience is obviously tainted by actually knowing him, so it's good to hear other people's first impressions.

[reinventmyself]

Thx notaladay. Your experience helps me re focus.

I will make an actual.physical list to look at. I have the running dialog one in my head and I know the pros are really long and the cons not so much

It would help seeing it on paper.

I do know for sure if I let this go I will regret it but at the same time I'm uncomfortable straddling the fence for more then 3 mos.

Not to mention he senses it.

Helps to hear your story again.

Besides, th here will alway be 'something' II just need to pick my battles.

[notalady]

Yes I had a mental list too, but often forget about the pros list and focus on the cons list. So it did help seeing it in writing and get some perspective.

 

I do agree though, you shouldn't be "straddling the fence" as you put it at 3 months. Perhaps it helps to think of a timeframe you would give this before giving up?

 

I was really only on the fence during the first month and a bit, and warmed up to him after that, well enough to know I really liked him and that he's pretty great it also helped comparing like-for-like with my ex (although only a small sample size of course), with whom I had already seen some major red flags by the end of 2 months, and the same red flags kept popping up in the months following, which turned out to be the major issue of our entire relationship, and I ignored it at the time. In comparison, things have been going smoothly with Z and I have seen no red flags. There are things I don't like or find not ideal, but nothing major, and I can also see so many things that works with this relationship, in comparison to my past relationships where things didn't work. It helps putting things into perspective when I'm tempted to chase perfection, which of course doesn't exist.

 

But with all that said, if after a certain time you still unsure after a certain timeframe (that you decide to give it a chance), it's probably best to just let it go.

[notalady]

By the way I don't know if you've seen this comedy with Stephen Merchant, it's called Hello Ladies, funny and cringeworthy at the same time. In the finale (spoilers!), the girl he's friends with and likes (and slept with him once) rejected him, saying that he's not her type and she doesn't see them being together (he's very nerdy and not that good looking compared to what she normally goes for), so they stopped seeing each other (even as friends). They ran into each other at a later date, she was dating someone else, when he asked she said she wasn't sure about the new guy yet. He said "You know what I think it’s about? Love? Percentages. Look at you and me, 18% of the time you drove me crazy- I mean f***ing insane alright? But 82% of the time I had more fun with you than anyone. ever. And that was good enough for me."

 

She ended up running after him and told him that 79% of the time she's happy with him. And they kiss, awww... A modern fairytale in my books hehe!

 

Now I like to think in terms of percentages too, that is, how many % of the time I'm happy with Z. So how many % of the time are you happy with Mark?

[reinventmyself]

I do consider the 80/20 rule. But when I feel I need to dial things down in very simple terms when talking to him or in fear he won't understand, it kills my attraction.

I really get angry with myself about this and I know I should be grateful for all his great qualities. Again, if I was in fear of losing him I would want him back. At the same time we have everything in common and have a lot of fun together.

 

I can't help but wonder if it's more of an intimacy issue of mine. I have a tendency to push men away. I tend to like the ones that don't like me too. I don't want to live this way any longer.

He's present, available and says he's in love with me. It's probably part of what makes me want to push him away.

 

I will tell you that my friends had a dinner party the other night. They were supposed to play a game, sorry I don't recall the entire name something

about `. . . . .humanity' From what she described it was reading captions from a deck of card and some obscure humor.

Mark and I didn't go as they were starting pretty late and he needed to be up very early for work.

I was alittle relieved because I was concerned that Mark wouldn't understand or be able to hold his own with the game as my friend described. I didn't want him to be embarrassed. I'll never know.

Then there are times he surprises me with his humor and wit.

 

He admits having had a learning disability when he was younger and issues with reading. At the same time he is the most capable, put to together, organized man I know.

 

Then I've dated really intelligent men that couldn't get their s**t together.

I am conflicted. .

[notalady]

It's hard to love and respect a man when you are worried whether he's able to "hold his own" even if it's just a game. Maybe it would be a good thing to put him under that context and see how he does. Not to see if he can understand the game and/or do well in it, but to see how he handles failure or "embarrassment" if any, and how he interacts with people in that context. Maybe he'll surprise you, you never know. Or he may handle it badly, but you can't know until you let him prove himself either way.

 

I like seeing guys I date under different circumstances and see how they do, whether it be interacting with people, handling stress, handling a bad situation, handling failure (even just at something simple as a game).

 

It's funny that I used to be bothered by the fact that Z seems like a simple guy. He certainly isn't the smartest guy I've dated. I beat him at Words With Friends (aka scrabble but on the phone app lol) by quite a bit, he handled losing well of course, as I expected. That reminded me that my ex (who is really smart), whom I also used to play the game with, used to get frustrated at some of the words I make that are admittedly obscure words that I could get or think of only because it's on the app and the app will tell you if its a word once you make it, ie it's trial and error not because I actually knew the word, and he was frustrated / mad at that even so, I get to score points. He took the game seriously and he didn't like losing. Z also said he's not good at and doesn't enjoy strategy games (neither am I), whereas my ex loved that kind of stuff. He used to go to one of his friends place and they would play this game called Risk Legacy or something, and again, he took the game seriously, and he didn't like to lose. I think one time he got mad at his friend for something happened during the game which I thought was a small thing that didn't matter. I of course didn't like that about him. Although I know Z doesn't play that kind of game, I know he would've handled anything happening during the game with humour, wit and self-deprecation, which to me is a really important quality - for someone to know their flaws and limitations and be able to joke about it.

 

Z has also had a successful career (bar a small detour and is moving back into it again), which makes me respect his abilities and intelligence in that way. Is/was Mark successful career wise? I may have missed this or just forgot. If so, perhaps that's something to remind yourself.

 

The thing is I've dated really smart guys, and as you said, they don't have their s**t together. One of them is actually in MENSA, in a senior position at an accounting firm at a young age (my age), also has a law degree and is doing MBA at Harvard! He was also the best looking guy I've ever dated and I was so attracted to him. But he also cheated on his (now ex) wife, their kids were 3 years old and 6 months old. He was the type of guy who lacked integrity and would do anything, even shady things, to get what he wants. He also had a lack of respect for women, which although wasn't blatantly obvious, but there were signs. My other ex (the one mentioned above re the games), he is also extremely smart but made a number of wrong career choices and still didn't have a stable established career when we met and when we broke up. He was smart but very competitive and took life (and himself) too seriously, stressed out and annoyed easily about the smallest things, I didn't enjoy being with him at all.

 

Not saying smart guys are no good, but as you know there's bad that comes with every good, and vice versa.

[reinventmyself]

I am sure Mark would handle himself graciously. He has a very gentle demeanor. My concern was that he may get lost in the context of the game or comprehension part of it I guess I would call it.

 

But you're right. I should not protect him and see what he's capable of now rather than later.

 

I dated a `rocket scientist' once -aerospace engineer. He had zero social skills and was about to lose his home. He cashed out some of his retirement to try to get ahead and the first 3 things he did with the money was buy new tires for his rv, and a newer ATV for his 11 yr old daughter and upgrade his timeshare (? Huh).

Not sure if he ever lost his home. . didn't stick around long enough to find out.

 

I come from an above average intelligence family. (not sure where I fit in . .lol) My Dad and brother are aerospace engineers so I suppose I have been surrounded by very cerebral people most of my life. The job I have I am surrounded by doctors and lawyers. I have no real formal education. Wandered around a community college before I got married and was a stay at home wife for years.

 

Mark has had the same great union job for 30 years, fat pension and has been looking at a home to purchase. He's been sitting on some money since his divorce 3 yrs ago and taking his time. He's owned 3 homes in his lifetime and remolded each himself. Much like me he doesn't use credit cards and is pretty financially set.

 

So with that ramble I better close. He's on his way over to help me dog sit. My mother has been in the hospital the past 3 days. . The dog is lost without my om and I can't get to go for a walk with me.

I refer to it as taking the dog a for a `drag'. Mom's good . . being released tomorrow. . Better run

[notalady]

I just re-read your post #146 and seems that I missed the first part where you say you have to dial things back to very simple terms or fear that he may not understand. Sounds like he really does seem to be intellectually challenged? (not to sound mean! Just referring to his learning disabilities from when he was younger.) I wonder if he has actually improved since then? I think this is a tough one. However intellectually compatible you may or may not be, if you have to dumb things down to communicate with him, I don't blame you for losing attraction.

 

Are there things to counteract that flaw in relation to capabilities? Ie he may be challenged language wise, and maybe he can't have an intellectual debate with you about current events, that doesn't mean he's not smart or capable. If you can think of more examples and real life situations where he demonstrated he is smart and capable, perhaps it will help you gain perspective? I do feel that there has to be things that you can admire about the guy to feel attracted to him, like "wow he can do that! That's amazing!" "He knows something I don't, that's so cool and interesting!" or "he's really good at doing such and such things, that's pretty awesome!"

 

Glad to hear your mum is being released from hospital! Hope you have a good day

[reinventmyself]

There in lies the problem. He's low in the intelligence department but far surpasses most or any man I've dated in most if not all other areas.

I don't feel I have much control over the dips in attraction and connection when he says something not quite right or misuses the English language. Last night for instance. He was meaning to say dis-respect. Came up with un or non, I had to feed him the word. Our conversations typically skim the surface without a whole lot of sunstance.

Uhg. I'm tired. Didn't sleep well. So probably not in the best frame of mind right now.

Thank you for your input. It really does help

I have to add: I am (a young)

55 and alot of men my age aren't looking for relationships, most I am not physically attracted to and a good portion of them.arent very active. Factor in the ones who want much younger women too

 

Marks hits all the marks (pun) as a great partner.

 

I'd be silly to keep throwing back fish thinking I can find a better.