From Wow to more Wow? My "I just knew" journal of wonder.

[chickadeedee]

>>a dual-ADHD couple.

 

Honey, you are framing this to try to find some way not to say goodbye to a person who is no longer your BF. And regardless of any way you try to define him as an excuse to keep him in your life, he currently is running around with another woman and has run around with multiple women since the day you met him (and before he met you). You can try to define him any way you want, but he is not trying to be a couple with you, he is currently coupling up with someone else, and his behavior is destructive to you as he continues to try to use you for attention and stimulation and a shoulder to cry on.

 

It is not your job to be shrink/sympathetic to an ex who is madly banging someone else while refusing to respect you or your wishes, your privacy, or your feelings.

 

And this guy is currently under criminal prosecution for not respecting the boundaries of his children either. And they are old enough to speak for themselves now and the court and police know that, so the fact that he is being prosecuted now (something for which they don't indict lightly) is something you are also ignoring and excusing rather than opening your eyes and seeing this man for who he is. If they were really young children it is possible that his ex might be making it up to gain some advantage over him, but these children are old enough to be considered reliable witnesses to their own mistreatment and will have been consulted before the indictment, so I think you shouldn't discount what is going on there either if he is actually under criminal prosecution now, which he is.

 

I don't think you are ready to let go of him yet because he was so blazingly satisfying and stimulating for you for a few months before it turned ugly. Don't confuse the fact that he was stimulating with moral character. You have been playing with fire for a while now and need to start protecting yourself. But I do suggest you might want to take this to a therapist if you cannot respect yourself in your own best interests and can't stop constantly thinking about him or can't let him go.

[Batya33]

"Honey, you are framing this to try to find some way not to say goodbye to a person who is no longer your BF. And regardless of any way you try to define him as an excuse to keep him in your life, he currently is running around with another woman and has run around with multiple women since the day you met him (and before he met you). You can try to define him any way you want, but he is not trying to be a couple with you, he is currently coupling up with someone else, and his behavior is destructive to you as he continues to try to use you for attention and stimulation and a shoulder to cry on."

 

Agree with this and that it is this simple or even simpler. Burying it in words (I mean the OP's words) and referring to the past, to ADHD, whatever doesn't change the simplicity. It does give you an excuse to hold on in some manner. Please make a different choice and if needed get help to make that different choice.

[IAmFCA]

Chickadeedee, I appreciate you rooting for me and trying to back me up. I would ask if you would please refrain from characterizing Mr Wow, because I find your characterizations distracting. I don't want to spend my energies clarifying or correcting; who he is is secondary to what I need, have, and want.

 

Everyone, I am still ignoring.

 

My points re ADHD and his behavior patterns were to help address the ideas of N and hoarding... and also an exploration of why some of what is patently unacceptable to others is to me simply a symptom. I don't see N and I don't see hoarding in his long term patterns, only since the trauma of divorce, death, financial ruin... and repeating myself, when I went through divorce, death and financial ruin, my own relationships were self serving, chaotic, and confusing. If we are going to assign labels and use them as a filter through which to interpret his behavior, we need to be careful.

 

The only factual medical diagnosis is ADHD, and his behavior is textbook for that. What other people see as errors in judgment is, to an ADHD person, as instinctively correct as tying one's shoe. It is why we need to create systems and safety nets to help regulate ourselves. It is also why it is easy as an ADHD person to become codependent and take on unhealthy relationship patterns, because we learn that we are not so good at regulating ourselves, at being responsible for ourselves, and that leads us to valuing someone else's authority over our own. That is a mistake as much as it is a logical response to life experience.

 

The spot he is in now is one I understand. He is human, he isn't a psychopath who is incapable of making attachments nor a chameleon who changes his stripes to win his prey. This is a human in pain and in chaos who is trying to hold on to his future. Those are HIS needs and they have nothing to do with mine.

 

As I said in my prior post, unwilling, untreated, or unable is still unsuitable. Also as I said in my prior post, I can find no reason to remain in contact, and I acknowledge that listening to his reasons is a waste of my time.

 

I simply cannot guarantee that I won't listen.

[IAmFCA]

Re how I talk about his behavior - that is because I am explaining him to myself and sometimes to others, in this journal. How I talk to him about his behavior is different, and has evolved in part because of the learning that goes on here. In a sense, I no longer talk to him about his behavior; who cares. I talk about what it means to me.

 

In recent days my message has been Your choices are clear, there is nothing here for me but words. I am gone.

 

It is very difficult for me to detach, in general; I can tell I am working through my process.

 

Again, I have been silent to his most recent request to meet. I do not know whether I will respond.

[mhowe]

As I have no experience with ADHD and its associated mind processes, I simply offer you my support in your journey, wherever it may lead you.

[Batya33]

I don't think you need to detach in order to make a choice not to interact with him. Take as much time as you need detaching completely -or you might never - and while that makes the choice to not interact with him more difficult you're a mature, intelligent, aware person and you can do it and act in your own best interests.

[IAmFCA]

As I have no experience with ADHD and its associated mind processes, I simply offer you my support in your journey, wherever it may lead you.

 

Thank you MHowe, I really appreciate your post.

 

Quoting from an article in ADDitude Magazine: "ADHD is a brain-based biological disorder. Brain imaging studies using PET scanners show that brain metabolism in children with ADHD is lower in the areas of the brain that control attention, social judgment, and movement.... There are also chemical differences in the ADHD brain. Low levels of dopamine, which is a neurotransmitter, are found in children with ADHD."

 

Dopamine is responsible for mental stimulation, reward and interest. In the ADHD brain, the dopamine is absorbed too quickly. As a result, the ADHD brain is constantly under-stimulated, and searching for stimulation. Finding none, it will cause us to create something that requires our attention: we will create chaos that we don't want, just to stimulate ourselves. Hence, ADHD brains are highly distractable, or as a coping mechanism, highly focused. Not much middle ground.

 

My brain's resting state is analogous to a classroom of 5 year olds on caffeine. I never knew until, say, the past year that other people's brains are quiet inside. In high school, I found I studied best in the high school gym. Loud music, disorganized clanging about and conversation together created a din that functioned like a wall of sound that matched my brain's own noise. In libraries, I hear everything and try to follow it to its origin. Mr Wow remembers with pride the success he experienced in military school: the highly structured environment helped him channel his brilliant mind. In adulthood, we try to create these structures for ourselves, and when the structures implode, it creates a fundamental level of disorganization.

 

It is both powerful energy and frustrating when trying to implement.

 

As it relates to me, right now... maybe Mr Wow gives me something to think about. Also or more powerfully, I have enormous empathy for his path. Its as if I am a disease survivor talking to someone else still in treatment, although I do not want that role because I am attracted to him and too vulnerable as a result. Finally, I get to learn about myself while watching him struggle.

 

Meanwhile, he can't settle into a relationship with me because it promotes stability, which is frightening to someone who has the capacity to blow it up just for fun. I completely get this. An ADHD-qualified therapist would help immensely. Where we live, that is $250/session. Not easy for someone who is in financial distress. Been there too... It is not an easy set of obstacles to overcome. Hence, I do not see a villain; I see someone with a very real and relatable set of obstacles. He will overcome them, it is what he does.

 

Still makes him unsuitable for what I want, and me too vulnerable for what he wants.

[mhowe]

My brain's resting state is analogous to a classroom of 5 year olds on caffeine.

 

Holy crap.

[IAmFCA]

Lots of learning going on here, ladies. Thank you for constantly pushing me to be my best advocate.

[IAmFCA]

My brain's resting state is analogous to a classroom of 5 year olds on caffeine.

 

Holy crap.

 

No lie.

 

What's funny is how obviously biological it is. Mr. Wow and I have parallel responses to chemical inputs like aspirin, alcohol, cocaine, pot. What those substances do for others is not the same for either of us. My ADHD child and I have similar responses to dietary inputs that my other child does not share, especially with respect to sugar, simple carbs, caffeine and chocolate.

 

My pride in my learning in recent years to run for miles at a time is because it means I found a way to channel / entertain my brain in a way that supports my goal instead of undermines it. Try getting a gaggle of five year olds to run in one direction. Ha!

[IAmFCA]

I don't think you need to detach in order to make a choice not to interact with him. Take as much time as you need detaching completely -or you might never - and while that makes the choice to not interact with him more difficult you're a mature, intelligent, aware person and you can do it and act in your own best interests.

 

This is an interesting point and might provide a gray zone that satisfies.

 

Not sure it is within my capacity to execute. Something for me to think more about. Thanks.

[mhowe]

It's like herding cats!

 

It is so anathema to my brain --- I am completely logical and process oriented. Except when it comes to calculus. Which I simply cannot fathom.

[faraday]

Not to derail things, but I have some questions

 

I was tested for ADHD when I was 15, and the test came back negative (they found I was depressed).

 

I've always had a hard time focusing. Always. I can't sit through a tv program, let alone a movie. Jay gets frustrated because while we watch movies, he wants to cuddle, and I want to bring in my paints and paint. If I do sit there and watch a movie with him, I often space out and think about different things...and he'll say, "woah, I can't believe that just happened!" and I'm puled from my thoughts, "huh?" ..and he thinks, what's the point of watching a movie if I'm not going to watch it? I have to write everything down...I have notebooks full of to do lists...or else I end up doing other things. I have a hard time listening to people talk (even though I try really hard to be a good listener...people just talk so much and it's boring)...

 

is that adhd? Should I get tested again? The only thing I can ever focus on is painting...but even then...it's like...I have to be in a specific frame of mind, and then I can paint for 12 hours straight. But then I think...I'm not adhd because I can cook a 4 course meal to perfection, while doing laundry and supervising a crafting playdate with 3 six year olds.

[IAmFCA]

It's like herding cats!

 

It is so anathema to my brain --- I am completely logical and process oriented. Except when it comes to calculus. Which I simply cannot fathom.

 

Yes, I can hear that in your writing. And I love it! Ye old GIGS applies to making friends as well... my best gfs accept me as I am and offer me a counter example.

 

My coach is ADHD also. It helps! He will say a phrase in the course of giving direction, and I will break into song. The phrase will be part of the lyric in the song, and my brain locks right onto it and runs with it. He laughs, because he gets it and so he isn't annoyed. That mirrors back to me what I've done, and then I self-correct.

 

Not to overthink 10 seconds, but it is a microcosm of what happens all day long. I am great at parties. My dinner last night with 6 women I've never met ended with me being appreciated for being so entertaining. I embrace this aspect of myself but I am not proud of it; it is like being complimented for having an arm.

 

The chemical element fascinates me. Mr. Wow and I discovered neither one of us has any attraction to illegal stimulants like coke. We both are like, Why? Tried it, shrug, feels like SSDD. Tried pot, but it just dulls our ability to stimulate ourselves. Boring. Alcohol is the only drug that is dangerous... without inhibition we can find endless stimulation in all things, and that feels wonderful. Its why he was right to be watchful of his increase in drinking, and I experienced an increase in mine too when my life imploded a few years - 5+! - back. Now, I hardly drink... its just sugar and works against my fitness goals. When I do, I can feel the calm. Nice.

[IAmFCA]

Faraday, get tested again! The art gives you a chance for hyperfocus. Without it, it seems you are looking about for adequate stimulation. We know much more now than we knew when we were kids. I was diagnosed just a few years ago; both diagnostic doctors were amazed nobody had ever diagnosed me previously as I am obviously ADHD. The med profession is generally ignorant about it. My well-educated GP thinks its behavioral and an excuse for disorganization and a lack of discipline. It isn't. It is biological, and drugs mitigate but do not eradicate the effects. Once you see yourself though this lens, you will be able to access logic that leads to ways to manage yourself most effectively.

 

Assuming it applies...

 

Also, the dopamine element could lead to a confusion with despression, or a mingling with depression.

 

Finally, even when it was recognized as physiologically-based, doctors thought it was only in children and that we grew out of it. We don't. Our synapses adjust to create pathways that represent coping skills, work-arounds.

 

And, after the finally lol, meds now are better understood but hard to find because of abuse in the secondary (illegal) market. So you will want to get tested and give yourself time to find a psychiatrist with whom you are comfortable AND who is knowledgable. My first doc told me misinformation about my Adderall, so I didnt take it every day. Which meant I didn't take it, because, DUH, I forgot. I found a woman who went to Yale, focused on the impacts of hormones in women, and adult ADHD. BING BING BING. She is the real deal.

 

Bummer is, she is the real deal. She is moving to a clinic where she can help the under-insured, and will no longer be available to me. I have had a hard time finding a replacement. May have to go back to the first doc, with all of her facade and make up and top-doc publicity, and just ignore her ignorant advice (not accepting that defeat, yet).

 

In short: YES!

 

Go to link removed for more resources, in the meantime.

[faraday]

Thank you so much for your response...I looked over an article on that site, and I have 6/7 ADD symptoms...but only one of ADHD...that's interesting. I'm going to get into my doctor to see if I can get a referral somewhere. This explains so much in my life lol

[IAmFCA]

Thank you so much for your response...I looked over an article on that site, and I have 6/7 ADD symptoms...but only one of ADHD...that's interesting. I'm going to get into my doctor to see if I can get a referral somewhere. This explains so much in my life lol

 

ADD is subsumed into ADHD now. I do not display so much of the H but have major hokes in executive function. There are gender disparities and (of course) the male displays tended to define the diagnosis, but that is changing or has changed. Find an expert and you will be recognized for whatever it is you sense in yourself.

 

And post here if you like as you go. It feels good for me too.

[faraday]

ADD is subsumed into ADHD now. I do not display so much of the H but have major hokes in executive function. There are gender disparities and (of course) the male displays tended to define the diagnosis, but that is changing or has changed. Find an expert and you will be recognized for whatever it is you sense in yourself.

 

And post here if you like as you go. It feels good for me too.

 

I will post here and let you know what I find out. Thank you so much

[itsallgrand]

I'm sorry to hear about the recent developments. It must be difficult to hear how he is with another woman while you still have strong feelings for him.

 

Got your back on limiting/cutting contact so you can process that break up without further hurts thrown into the mix.

 

I like what Batya had to say about that. And I know that if you continue to take care of you, you will be ok.

 

It does almost seem to me like he sparks something in you that relates to him so much, and brings out the nurturing 'want to take care of you' part of you (a part that is a beautiful part to have, and I've noticed really comes out when we are in love), and it's hard to make that switch where something so beautiful and that feels so right - to love someone - can go against your own interests and taking care of how you can love now. It's a hard thing to just turn off, turn away from, ignore.

 

This is the toughest part of breakups IMO. And not all break ups have this part. Where the other person keeps wanting something and asking for something from you that isn't in your own interests anymore.

 

But you will get through this.

[IAmFCA]

itsallgrand, thank you.

 

I knew he was involved with someone else; we have agreed to move on in that sense, and I have been on several dates myself. I assumed he was spending his weekend with her in some capacity. Thinking of her as a short term thing; over it. It is the public display of her that sent me; the apparent escalation from distraction-from-pain to lady-friend. I felt as if she encroached upon my territory; irrational, but true.

 

I don't need to watch this relationship develop, nor hear about how I am so much better than she is, nor hear how I am being protected from his chaos now out of respect for who I am. All of it may be true, but if so, he should keep her on a low visibility plan and make her none of anyone else's business.

 

There is no reason to be in contact at this time. Can't think of one.

 

Right now, I am being left alone. He has court in the morning. We both have our kids all weekend. There is some chance he will let his request to meet drop. So far, his last text stands unanswered, so maybe he will leave it at that. I doubt it.

 

Thank you for your kind message. I do indeed have empathy for him, and have walked in his shoes, and wish I could show him the way out. I can't, he has to find it himself.

 

I could turn on a dime on any of these statements. I am not through. Am holding on to myself.

[IAmFCA]

I have a wellspring of anxiety. Its logical, am writing for work and looking ahead to three very intense weeks on family, travel, and professional fronts.

 

His non-response is hanging in the air, whereas earlier today I had mostly brushed it off.

 

I remember that adderall can increase anxious feelings, so I may need to adjust that in the coming months.

 

Arghhhhhh going for a run. Hill work maybe!

[IAmFCA]

Well, hell, I cracked.

 

I am focused on what I need to do but at the same time, I have an undercurrent of anxiety about his court appearance tomorrow morning. He is clearly leaving me alone, as yesterday he suggested that we talk today and I never responded, and he let it drop. I didn't want to break the seal; at the same time, tomorrow is one of the most pivotal days of his life, really, no lie. I sent a text wishing him good luck. I don't think I should have done it, but on the other hand, its done and I don't care that much if I mis-stepped. Just reporting it out.

 

I know his battle isn't mine, I know I will eventually not care if he prevails or no, I know that eventually, this will all go away. I am too good and too old for this madness. So, I get it. A crack in the armor. I'm human.

 

I have a meditation that I started tonight: Universe will catch me the Universe will catch me, the universe will catch me. It helps me to feel embraced in an amorphous way.

 

Ok, OAO so I can focus on acts that invest in my people and my world.

[IAmFCA]

Ha, lovely. Spent the last hour chatting with one of his friends who was with us on one of our first dates last summer. Validating, empowering, and comforting. They love him like i do, accept his flaws, see his pain, and can happily encourage me to act in my own best interests without speaking ill of him, whether that means being with him or not. Absolutely lovely.

 

Delay.....

 

 

And now he has just texted me.

 

"Thank you so much, ITIC."

 

and then

 

"We need to establish things properly. I hope to see you soon for a cup of coffee or tea or a walk. We have to talk."

 

I like the tone and the venue. I told him "I will walk with you out of trust and respect." He will have put a lot of thought into his words, and it will be telling.

 

I have no idea when I am available for it. We both have commitments tomorrow and all weekend, then I leave town. That is not all bad, not at all.

[faraday]

What are you hoping to get out of this coffee meet?

[notalady]

What are you hoping to get out of this coffee meet?

 

That's what I'm thinking too..

 

And what are you hoping to get out of keeping in contact with him like this?

 

Sorry I haven't commented on your journal in a while, I have been following it, it just confuses me most of the time so I haven't been able to make any meaningful comments lol..