From Wow to more Wow? My "I just knew" journal of wonder.

[IAmFCA]

I don't know. I went to bed wondering same. He's been unusually inarticulate, really, sin e March. I would like to know what he is doing. Its unclear.

 

Mostly, that when he gathered his thoughts _ finally_ I listened. I feel better about myself knowing that I listened.

[IAmFCA]

I had forgotten till just now how many times he told me You are who I was supposed to marry.

 

In my mind there is nothing to "establish properly" but my mind has been focused on what am I getting and where am I going... As it should be.

 

I haven't heard what is in his mind in some time. Its been an emotional garbage heap.

 

I dunno. This whole connection has become completely dysfunctional for me and I've no clue what purpose he would like to serve in my life, if any. I would like to hear his thoughts on that too. I'm not sure I would accept any of his answers.

 

Noise.

 

It was beautiful, that beauty had passed.

[Batya33]

What purpose he serves? Unclear but seems pretty clear it has nothing to do with love or care either your love or care of yourself or his of you. It likely has to do with self-love (his, or his form of it) plus perhaps the new love/lust he has for this woman that he would like to share with you to alleviate his guilt (again his self-"love"). I do not think it demonstrates your love and care of him because as you've indicated you know that your meeting up with him is not about caring for yourself in a healthy way so in this instance I don't think you, not showing yourself care, can care for him. (I am not saying you don't have loving or caring feelings, just commenting on this specific meeting and its motivators). I don't think you believe that you need this for closure or that it will give you any sense of closure - maybe superficially you believe that but I don't think you deep down believe that at all.

[IAmFCA]

Not sure about all that Batya. One thing I realized is that much of recent, deeper break.was a one way conversation. I'm willing to listen to his half of the conversation.

 

I was reminded last night that he continues to think of me someone to marry, and he is afraid now he would ruin it until he settles a bit. He is ruining it anyway, of course.

 

My thoughts re his suitability are unchanged, undetermined but open to see how he rises from the ashes. I know that sounds nutty, but again, I've been there in almost exactly the same shoes.

 

I will walk with him if he schedules it. I don't feel as vulnerable as I did a few days ago.

 

I have learned my chief mistake, to apply in future in all formats:

 

Leave my audience wanting more. Always.

[Batya33]

He might be thinking of you as someone he would marry, and he has said those words, you say.

 

 

And what actions, choices and behavior on his part are consistent with wanting to marry you -aside from words and what you think he is thinking? And I am talking about recently, not a year ago.

[IAmFCA]

Batya, I am under no illusion about a relationship at this time.

 

Everyone - thank you. I know you are trying to protect me from dragging out something that died a few months ago and is no longer even on life support.

 

I am resolved to hear his thoughts, in part of how he framed his request, and in part because it will provide me with an opportunity to test/confirm whatever conclusions I draw and carry with me. I will need confidence in my assessments as I move further down my path.

 

He previously texted that my statements were inaccurate and inappropriate; I ignored his rebuttal and don't much care, narrowly speaking. More likely, my exertion of control to cease all contact feels disorderly, and he would like to "arrange things". I have no idea what he might suggest. Maybe I will be surprised; not likely. By walking with him, that question mark will be eliminated so that I do not wonder in a moment of weakness months from now.

 

I get it; its messy, its cleaner if I shut him out now as opposed to later. If he advances the plan to walk and talk, I will listen. It will be a learning journey for me, on which I will practice listening, withholding guidance except in the broadest terms, and being my own best friend.

[IAmFCA]

I must say, on reflection, talking to his friend last night was a true gift.

 

Confirmation, validation, permission -- none needed, but all nice to have from someone who has known him for 15 years and will be active in his circle long after I'm gone.

[IAmFCA]

Dang.

 

One more death in Mr Wow's world.

 

I felt today that the switch was thrown, I'm just not into the rationship dynamic anymore, and hearing from him re business thing was just regular. .

 

Even so, I feel his pain. Such deep deep exhaustion and pain.

 

He was in denial. I heard the news, texted I'm sorry for your loss (because he'd rather text even then), and he fell like a ton of bricks. That made it real, he said.

 

Oof.

 

Since 2012 or maybe 2010, it's been one body blow after another. Its a helluva lesson he is learning. Its just awful.

 

I doubt we'll have that talk, now. What energy could he possibly have left? It is clear to me that he had decided not to date me because of some of what was. coming, he knew at some point this would.happen and he didn't want to burden me with it. I see how his story comes together. He knew this loss was coming and he knew he would be utterly vacant, and he wanted me relieved of.it before it happened.

 

I see it..

 

Its messed up but I.am.grateful.

 

I have never seen a life unravel.so. It can only lead to.rebirth, I will hope, as one human for another.

[IAmFCA]

He knew late last night.

 

I received a text giving me assurance about an ill loved one in my world, as if we would no longer be in touch should something happen later. He knew this death was nigh and that it would slay him too.

 

He wanted to set me ffee of his future. Its why it was important for me to know.he shouldhave maRried me, because now, he would never burden me. Its a way of making sure I know, as I head off onto my path, that he would have given me.his life and that in a way, he was doing it now by forcing me out.

 

Wow. Tears.

[mhowe]

Who died? Did you know them as well?

[IAmFCA]

Who died? Did you know them as well?

 

I knew just superficially. He was Mr. Wows safe place, his sense of home. A mentor and a father to fill in what he was.missing at home, a.friend.and.a.playmate. His mom, his hero... meanwhile he works tonrwbuild.his.financial.health but he is as empty as a robot. Some.improvement in finances.will come but so.will great difficulty bwforw he gwts wvwrything squared.away.

 

Using language loosely, he didn't marry me as his best way to give me the life he would have given me had he married me in our 20s. Bawling a minute.ago.

 

I hate to.be dramatic, but he is indeed arranging things. I fear he may have much more in his mind and have requested an eyeball to eyeball conversation.

 

He may have taken what he can.take. Or, maybe I.am.just feeling emo.atm. He has made jokes and I now see a pattern that matches.the gallows humor. It is quite frightening.

[mhowe]

Be kind to yourself. You have been a good friend to Mr Wow. Whether he knew it was coming or whether this is another hailstorm in his life...you cannot be his safe haven. He must weather the storm....sometimes they come, one squall after another.

 

But eventually, the sky's lighten and the air is fresh and clear.

 

Breathe.

[IAmFCA]

Thank you MHowe. He is not leaning on me at all. He is off enjoying his kids. I am just beginning to grasp the depth of his words.

 

To my concern for him he replied that I was right, there may be some truth to his gallows humor but that I didn't have to worry, and lets walk and talk soon.

 

I clearly am just now beginning to get my nose under the tent and we are both angling for an All Cards on the Table conversation.

 

Will put this to the side until time permits.

[IAmFCA]

Just checking in to let you tireless readers know after my little emo moment, I sorted. He called (alert the media) to tell me he's fine and try to schedule a walk. We didn't succeed at the schedule.

 

I'm fine. I am back to my side of the world whole his implodes further. I think he is learning to get in the flow. Not sure. He did say he was thinking about reading books his mother gave him about adhd, that he previously rejected because they seemed to mean he is damaged.

 

Oh, yes- my role in his life is to prove to him that he isn't damaged, by being a respectable role model of adhd. (It all depends on ones standards lol). I am curing acceptance from mom. Well, good to know. Not my job, couldn't do it if it were. Pieces beginning to fit. I deserve only the sort of comfort his father gave his mother, he can't do that, better to leave me than block my ability to do that on my own/with someone else. Its a dang blasted way to think. Very Wuthering heights. For goodness sakes.

 

We had a momentary argument.about President.Obama which I cut short and.I patted myself in the back.and.told.him so, for not letting him.draw.me in.

 

Whatevs. I went back to my work. No leftover feelings, nothing unusual. Yay.

 

And no, I can not get lax. His purpose in my life right now is so that I can be in control and set boundaries in real time, on the spot, in peer situations. So I will do that.

[chickadeedee]

Honey, your purpose/role in life is to be a good mother and well balanced mother to your children, to take care of YOURSELF emotionally, and to stop being obsessed with some man who is banging multiple women while under criminal prosecution for child abuse.

 

If he needs a therapist or doctor for himself, let him get one. This is absolutely, completely, and totally not your purpose in life, and you need to start focusing on your children and your own needs and leave this man alone. I am very concerned for you and wonder if you might not need a trip to the doctor yourself to get your medication adjusted and talk to the doctor about your unhealthy enmeshment/obsession with this man. Obsession can be one side effect of improper medication dosages or the need for medication.

[IAmFCA]

Chickadeedee, I am going to annotate below using all caps in the middle of your quote... Caps look like yelling, I am SO not yelling. just lazy or expedeint or something similar.

 

 

 

Re obsession, this is nothing. lol.

 

Been reading about adhd and relationships... it is possible I am glad to have him as a stimulant. exploring this idea.

 

Been thinking about how we each share a medical condition, how we each have been discovering its impacts, with he more clear on facts and me further along on behavioral modification and self-esteem recovery (also a common impact... its like how when you have a learning disability people think you're stupid). Been thinking about my fb friend who held my hand with fb messages all the way through my recent diagnosis and surgery, because she is a knowledgable survivor. Been thinking about how, in fact, I never had therapy, except in the context of diagnosis. My friends intervened for me, my coach taught me to retrain my thinking. Been thinking about him not as a man or a bf but as someone with the same thing I have, at the cusp of treatment.

 

Also been thinking about my own capacity, need for boundaries, and the danger of being involved.

 

It doesn't feel good to leave him cold when I know I can pay it forward. It doesn't feel good to be around him if I feel vulnerable. Right now, I feel well grounded and strong. It won't always be that way, perhaps. So I am thinking... I know I can disengage completely. I know he will let me go; I know he thinks that is the best gift he can give me. I believe the walk/talk is so he can put all of his cards on the table in that regard, so that if I disengage completely he will have said everything he intends to say. I would like to know what I don't know.

 

If he is committed to learning new tricks, I MIGHT engage with him according to a set schedule, around the topic of ADHD, akin to a book club. We will learn about ourselves, how to deal with the utter lack of executive function and other impacts of dopamine deficiency (simplified). I would use this as a time to get business coaching, at which he excels. He would use this as a time, I expect, to learn how to moderate his choices, to find stimulation in incremental change, and to eliminate negative self-talk. On paper, this could be a positive mutually beneficial, experience.

 

In practice, this could be rich with emotional challenges, if either of us becomes emotionally involved with someone. Dating, sexual involvement, a certain level of emotional involvement... I think we could each find a way to tolerate that. A deep involvement, I doubt we would find that comfortable.

 

I have asked one of my longest friends who loves him too to think on this as well. She is ready for me to disengage, which I would have to do in any scenario and have done already on many levels. To have any contact at all is the open question, and how. I am not making any final decision until I hear whatever it is he intends to say.

 

He has turned the hardest corners, unless there is more I don't know. More chips will fall, but there is nothing left that is completely from left field as before (well, I guess nobody ever knows). He is poised, and sounds poised, for recovery from his losses.... if he pursues it. I'm NC until the walk/talk.

[IAmFCA]

Maybe what I see is the fun of distraction, oy

[IAmFCA]

The mild ADDer is probably not going to be a social klutz, but he may have problems in the subtler realm of deciding whom to approach and whom to avoid. A mild ADDer may repeatedly choose the wrong person to love, in part because he does not absorb all the social cues other people may see from the start.

 

Or the ADDer's need for stimulation may actually cause her to seek out trouble when choosing a mate. A mildly hyperactive adult may choose mates who are "bad" for her because they hold her interest in a way that the "nice guys" don't. Some individuals know this about themselves; they know they are not looking for a calm and steady presence, as this leaves them feeling starved for stimulation.

 

This last sentence is true. I have never sorted for a calm partner. Ever. Oh, the thought of feels like physical pain, disgust. I guess that's not so normal.

 

Choices: accept this about myself and plan for it - make accommodations to afford the madness, let other people know what my goals are, then work with my mate to create a chaos that is of our choosing and mutually supportive (is that possible? I feel like it is...)

 

Accept this about myself and train myself to understand a new set of rewards in a relationship. This is possible. Will think on this; it is like learning to see find the chaos in increments. I used to choose difficult jobs because I knew they would be difficult. So, maybe it is the same in relationships. Why not choose something easy?

 

I must say, Mr Wow was easy at first; his company is ridiculously easy. As a relationship partner, I know and have always known he would not ever be easy, ever. Shrugged right past that, like, OK I get it. Huh. There is an aspect to this that suggests he would blow it up himself to make sure it was a challenge, if nobody else did.

 

AHHHH hence the crazy chicks! I got it!

 

Wow, this is amazing.

[IAmFCA]

And this:

 

Now, I have a sense of the context. If a bleak feeling is coming upon me, I don't say, "I'm a terrible person." I just say, "It's a gray day," and know that I need more stimulation in order to cheer up.

 

Adults with full-blown cases of ADD are risk-takers; they are attracted to any situation that shocks the brain, whether it be race-car driving or corporate deal-making or shouting matches with loved ones. Mildly ADD people may self-medicate with milder dramas - the daily micromanagement of a family's needs and troubles or the choosing of difficult people as lovers.

 

Needless to say, distractibility, restlessness, and impulsivity can wreak havoc in any relationship. But with a genuine understanding of the disorder driving these behaviors, both partners can take a step back - outside the present moment - and decide how to work around it.

 

My risk taking occurs in the context of forming relationships.

[mhowe]

Your shared psychological processing issues makes this both a challenge and adds to the connection. I think those of us who do not have personal experience of this find this beyond confusion. Both of you do not.

 

This is your journal. And while I can see that you welcome input, I would encourage you to disregard the judgement and criticism. This is your life and your journey. You are an articulate, intelligent and responsible woman, mother and partner.

 

What we see as noise, you see as music. Dance, sit it out, pay the fiddler. You are in charge and imminently capable of discerning what will work for you.

[IAmFCA]

Your shared psychological processing issues makes this both a challenge and adds to the connection. I think those of us who do not have personal experience of this find this beyond confusion. Both of you do not.

 

This is your journal. And while I can see that you welcome input, I would encourage you to disregard the judgement and criticism. This is your life and your journey. You are an articulate, intelligent and responsible woman, mother and partner.

 

What we see as noise, you see as music. Dance, sit it out, pay the fiddler. You are in charge and imminently capable of discerning what will work for you.

 

This brought tears to my eyes. Thank you.

 

We haven't met yet. This week sometime. I do not like open loops; I get anxious. Schedules are what they are. If not this week, then it will be several and I will LC or NC that whole time.

 

This morning I overheard my kids talking about when one moves out, who will remain in the broader family as a peer for the other one... and his child was named. Protest by the other: they're not in our family. Mutual agreement with Yes, but when if go over to Mr Wow's house... Now, they've met any number of family friends etc., never such a comfort at their level either.

 

Its so annoying.

 

My guess... we talk, there is no purpose to it except to shed light on his thoughts, and that's that. grump.

[Batya33]

Or, don't waste your energy or time on a purposeless meeting with such a high risk of harming you in some way, however minor.

[IAmFCA]

Or, don't waste your energy or time on a purposeless meeting with such a high risk of harming you in some way, however minor.

 

 

No, I have now got enough to say myself that I will be glad to have a proper discussion. Otherwise, its all mostly been exchanged by text - filtered, truncated, and unsatisfactory.

[Batya33]

No, I have now got enough to say myself that I will be glad to have a proper discussion. Otherwise, its all mostly been exchanged by text - filtered, truncated, and unsatisfactory.

 

Seems to me you're just telling yourself that to prolong contact since in the recent past you wrote that he was the one who wanted to talk to you mostly about his new fling/girlfriend/whatever. You've had several discussions with him since things ended/began/ended/began - do you really think continuing contact is consistent with self-care?

[IAmFCA]

Seems to me you're just telling yourself that to prolong contact since in the recent past you wrote that he was the one who wanted to talk to you mostly about his new fling/girlfriend/whatever. You've had several discussions with him since things ended/began/ended/began - do you really think continuing contact is consistent with self-care?

 

He wants to talk Not so much about HER as much as about my characterization of things, is my guess. I have my ideas, but I will just wait to see.

 

No, I can't tell you that it is consistent with self-care. I would like to hear what his intentions are, what it is that is so important for me to know. I can't tell you that any of his words will matter. If I hear them, I will be able to make that judgment instead of presume it.

 

And yes. It is tiresome.