From Wow to more Wow? My "I just knew" journal of wonder.

[IAmFCA]

I am confused. Is this not what you wanted to hear from him? Why did you decline?

 

Because he asked me what did I want, instead of telling me what he wants. It was like asking me to set my terms, and he would accept whatever. That's not good enough.

[Batya33]

Because he asked me what did I want, instead of telling me what he wants. It was like asking me to set my terms, and he would accept whatever. That's not good enough.

 

"He literally said, I don't want to date anyone else. I don't."

 

What else should he have said?

[chickadeedee]

You are making the right choice.

 

Yes, to a healthy life. No to drama,drama,drama. What you are asking of him is a normal relationship. He's not able to offer one. Maybe just not now, maybe never. But you need to protect yourself emotionally.

[missmarple]

I'm confused, too. Do you mean he didn't actually say the words 'I want to date you'?

[chickadeedee]

>>he tried and realized he was supposed to be with me, tried to fool around and couldn't (which is exactly what I thought happened, funny).

 

This is also an admission that he was not being honest, lying to you. I didn't believe all that nonsense about how he was just 'hanging out' with his male buddies. He had you on the back burner and was dating other women while saying he wasn't doing it.

 

You can't trust him. So don't.

 

Wise choice to pass and move on from the drama.

[IAmFCA]

>>he tried and realized he was supposed to be with me, tried to fool around and couldn't (which is exactly what I thought happened, funny).

 

This is also an admission that he was not being honest, lying to you. I didn't believe all that nonsense about how he was just 'hanging out' with his male buddies. He had you on the back burner and was dating other women while saying he wasn't doing it.

 

You can't trust him. So don't.

 

Wise choice to pass and move on from the drama.

 

Oh, no, he never lied about his whereabouts. He is so open with me that I know when he has something else going on by the hole in his description. This really isn't the case of someone trying to play me by being purposefully dishonest in that sense.

 

We talked about how he represented himself, about giving me the power to filter what's important instead of him deciding what to filter.

 

MM I don't think he did. OTOH he did ask me to come with him tonight, but I declined, and there were a couple of times he clearly chose NOT to say something. Maybe I was too busy protecting myself such that I headed him off at the pass. It IS an odd omission.

[mhowe]

Forgive my assumption but I think you are both addicted to the synchronicity of the dance and somehow feed off of it.

 

Tell the band to ROCK ON and either get on the floor... Or peace out.

[chickadeedee]

>>He saying, What do you want? I don't want anyone else. What? Just tell me what you want.

 

btw, i think you have been very clear about what you want so that question is absurd. What i have seen happening in your interchanges is you say, 'I really want an apple.' And he comes back with 'How about an orange?' and you say, 'I really need an apple.' and he says, 'how about a pear now, and maybe i'll give you an apple later.' So it is clear what you want, and he is always twisting around trying to give you what he wants to give you, and convince you he is giving you what you want, or will give you what you want in the future, meanwhile he's still not giving you what you want while pretending to be confused or incapable of it. Red herriings, all of it!

[IAmFCA]

Forgive my assumption but I think you are both addicted to the synchronicity of the dance and somehow feed off of it.

 

Tell the band to ROCK ON and either get on the floor... Or peace out.

 

As usual MHowe, I'm right there with you.

[IAmFCA]

Mmm, maybe. I suppose he expected that saying he didn't want to date anyone else was the key. I believe him.

 

I may have been doing a little sabotaging of my own.

[IAmFCA]

In thinking about it, no. I declined because I was still hearing ambivalence. I don't want anyone else does not equal I want you.

[chickadeedee]

It also might mean: i don't want anyone else at the moment.

 

The interesting thing and the reason I think you made a wise choice is regardless of him saying that, he was TRYING to get with someone else. He shouldn't have been doing that at all if he was really devoted to you and the idea of permanence with you.

 

So i would interpret his statement to be: 'i don't want anyone else (at the moment) and i want you (for now) but i still want my options open just in case i do meet someone.' So he really was just stalling, but in a more sophisticated way.

[Batya33]

I see what you mean in the context of your interactions and history with him. Often in the beginning of a relationship when one person wants to be exclusive he/she will say "I don't want to date anyone else, do you?" as an opening to a discussion. But here he knows exactly what you want and I don't think it was necessary for him to share with you that he was trying to hook up with other women even if he "couldn't". And I can totally relate to you feeling ambivalence despite his words.

[IAmFCA]

I see what you mean in the context of your interactions and history with him. Often in the beginning of a relationship when one person wants to be exclusive he/she will say "I don't want to date anyone else, do you?" as an opening to a discussion. But here he knows exactly what you want and I don't think it was necessary for him to share with you that he was trying to hook up with other women even if he "couldn't". And I can totally relate to you feeling ambivalence despite his words.

 

Yes, that's it.

 

He said it today: "Never before have I been in a situation where I felt like I shouldn't be with someone I love."

 

Whatever. Love me or not, it's the same outcome. The same value to me.

[IAmFCA]

I see what you mean in the context of your interactions and history with him. Often in the beginning of a relationship when one person wants to be exclusive he/she will say "I don't want to date anyone else, do you?" as an opening to a discussion. But here he knows exactly what you want and I don't think it was necessary for him to share with you that he was trying to hook up with other women even if he "couldn't". And I can totally relate to you feeling ambivalence despite his words.

 

Yes, that's it.

 

He said it today: "Never before have I been in a situation where I felt like I shouldn't be with someone I love."

 

Whatever. Love me or not, it's the same outcome. The same value to me.

[notalady]

He said it today: "Never before have I been in a situation where I felt like I shouldn't be with someone I love."

 

Um what? Just sounds like creating drama to me. To be honest it reminded me of Keeping Up with the Kardashians lol! Not that I watch it normally but it was on TV when I was in Vegas and I watched a couple of episodes, all I can say is drama drama drama! Yikes.

 

He's not Romeo and you are not Juliet, he can be with you if he chooses to.

[missmarple]

He said it today: "Never before have I been in a situation where I felt like I shouldn't be with someone I love."

 

That would have been my cue to cut off all contact with him. He's giving me a headache even through your posts..I can't imagine having someone like that in my life.

[chickadeedee]

>>He said it today: "Never before have I been in a situation where I felt like I shouldn't be with someone I love."

 

Why are you even still talking to him when he's saying such blather?

 

He's got you totally hooked on the idea that as long as he is spilling his guts to you with these little intimate confessions like you're his therapist, he can get away with any unsavory behavior he chooses. I think you are both getting a lot of (negative) emotional mileage out of you playing at being his therapist rather than being his partner because it is all very dramatic and challenging for both of you as you circle each other like a pair of wolves who can't decide whether they want to mate or fight each other.

 

But if you want to be healthy mentally and find a good relationship with someone, you need to cut him off entirely and stop speaking to him because you will be repeatedly sucked back into this unhealthy dance as you've already discovered.

 

Meanwhile he's out chasing other women while lying to you and trying to make it seem like you're so special because he can't perform with them. When frankly you should have had a strong desire to kick him in the arse for lying to you and keeping you on a string while he's out trying to find and bang his latest whim. Look at this realistically: he was trying to elicit SYMPATHY from you because he can't perform with other women. And you're supposed to think it is OK he is out doing this because he has confessed he couldn't perform with them, poor sad little him who can't get it up? Seriously?

 

Again and again, his words/actions give you a stroke with one hand followed by a punch with the other. This has turned into a classic dysfunctional relationship, and one that is extremely unhealthy for you if you continue to stay in contact with him.

 

Please, please, please consider getting some short term counseling of your own to figure out why you are continuing to on put up with a man who on the one hand is trying to turn you into his mother/sister/therapist while on the other is repeatedly stabbing you in the heart by stringing you along and periodically making these bizarre confessions about why he wants to pursue (or think about pursuing) other women and why he 'can't' be in a normal relationship with you. Because what you see is what you get, and i think if you stay with this man (and stay in contact with him) your life will be never ending upheaval as he alternates between telling you you're his perfect Mommy/sister/lover/therapist alternating with periods of time where he buzzes off to chase other women and do heaven knows what while telling you why he 'can't' be with you.

 

This has turned into something that is crashingly unhealthy but obviously you are finding addictive in its drama if you don't see this behavior for what is is and cut him off and go find a loving man who wants a partner and not a mother/sister/therapist. Please save yourself and your mental health and give him his walking papers and cut contact with him.

[chickadeedee]

btw, I might have said there was hope for this situation until these factors came out:

 

He's been with you near a year so he should know whether he wants to be monogamous or not or stabilize this relationship by now

He's had multiple times in recent months where you have evidence he's wanting to be with other women or has been with other women (and your only evidence that it hasn't been consummated is his words).

He's tried to turn you into his mother/sister/therapist while lying about what he's up to with other women and friendzoning you.

He doesn't really want a committed relationship with you but he doesn't want to let you go either because he 'needs' a sister/therapist figure to make him feel secure.

 

So all that lines up to be a roaringly dysfunctional situation, with a dysfunctional man.

[Batya33]

In a sort of devil's advocate stance I go back to the OP's repeated posts that the reason for his behavior are external (at least, mostly) -the crises in his life that in her opinion are so awful that he cannot be with her right now and that when those external reasons fade he will be with her, or at least there is enough of a chance that she was (is?) willing to tolerate the present situation.

 

And of course as a single adult woman with years of experience in relationships, dating, marriage, she might benefit from what others might see as unnecessary drama, dysfunction, bad treatment. Whether those benefits would be seen as benefits to anyone else is irrelevant or whether what she sees as benefits others might see as reasons for needing counseling is kind of irrelevant (short of actual abuse and similar!).

 

I do find it interesting that he made his latest statement so passive about loving "someone" and making it seem like he was some sort of victim of his feelings.

[chickadeedee]

>>she might benefit from what others might see as unnecessary drama, dysfunction, bad treatment.

 

Batya, seriously? 'Benefit' from drama, dysfunction, and bad treatment?

 

She has been tortured by this man emotionally recently, and now he's admitting he lied about seeing other women while pretending he wasn't.

 

Why on earth would keeping such a man around be a good idea, and why would suggesting counseling to get past this relationship that has turned into torture for her be considered 'abuse'?

 

That's a rhetorical question by the way, and my posts are an attempt to help the OP see this man is treating her pretty badly and she's so in love she needs to find a way to see the dysfunction for what it is via going to a therapist or just making a decision to put this man behind her. Of course that choice is up to her... that's a given.

[browneyedgirl36]

>>she might benefit from what others might see as unnecessary drama, dysfunction, bad treatment.

 

Batya, seriously? 'Benefit' from drama, dysfunction, and bad treatment?

 

She has been tortured by this man emotionally recently, and now he's admitting he lied about seeing other women while pretending he wasn't.

 

Why on earth would keeping such a man around be a good idea, and why would suggesting counseling to get past this relationship that has turned into torture for her be considered 'abuse'?

 

That's a rhetorical question by the way, and my posts are an attempt to help the OP see this man is treating her pretty badly and she's so in love she needs to find a way to see the dysfunction for what it is via going to a therapist or just making a decision to put this man behind her. Of course that choice is up to her... that's a given.

 

I'm not sure if I've ever posted on this thread or not, and if I haven't, I apologize for jumping in (though I have read the thread in its entirety).

 

I think there's been a tremendous amount of thoughtful commentary here, ITIC -- significant food for thought offered, which I know you recognize. What has struck me about this thread, and probably why I have read and absorbed so much of it, is that I find it familiar, having had my own "wow" guy who, as it turned out, had all sorts of 'external forces' pressing on him (ex wife, custody/child support issues, issue with his relationships with his children, his omnipresent ex-girlfriend that he couldn't get over, the list goes on -- that, in his mind, made him a bad relationship partner for me EVEN though he said he loved me, I was perfect for him, I would make a great partner, etc. It was always SOMETHING -- always another reason he couldn't be with me. He talked a lot -- lots of flowery language, lots of complicated feelings and philosophical musings that, in the end, I had to acknowledge were just a bunch of blather-y mumbo-jumbo that all culminated in the same conclusion: He couldn't be the person I needed and deserved as a partner despite whatever "wow" or "I just knew" kind of stuff seemed to be simmering there, that, truly, he was NOT the right person for me. I remember one of the times we ended things (there were several over the course of a few years, I'm ashamed to say), I wrote a list in my journal of reasons he wasn't right for me, one of which was "He talks a lot, and writes a lot, but ultimately, most of it is meaningless or doesn't even make sense" (he used to use a lot of odd metaphors -- and I'm an English teacher, so I'm quite well-versed in metaphor) and a lot of what seemed to be sort of a cross between philosophical terminology and new age-y psychobabble buzzwords, and ultimately, a lot of it amounted to nothing but noise. Again, all of it said the same thing: I am not for you.

 

ITIC, it sounds as though you're seeing this for what it is -- a guy who acts as though life 'happens' to him rather than him taking action to shape his life. He seems to feel he's at the mercy of some hidden forces out of his control, hence all the passive constructions/ways of articulating his thoughts and feelings. It is perhaps overly simplistic to say "If a man wants to be with you, he'll just do it," but....I can't help feeling that this is true, all though it may be slightly more complex (but not too much more complex) than that. As Batya always says, humans move toward pleasure and away from pain. If you are this great love that he claims you are, he would naturally and of his own volition, move toward you -- he wouldn't be throwing up all these barriers-that-aren't-really-barriers, ones he's constructed in his mind but claims to be powerless over.

 

Anyway....I am glad to hear that you are blocking out the noise. People can SAY anything. Sustained, consistent, intentional action -- the opposite of the "noise" -- is what matters.

[Batya33]

>>she might benefit from what others might see as unnecessary drama, dysfunction, bad treatment.

 

Batya, seriously? 'Benefit' from drama, dysfunction, and bad treatment?

 

She has been tortured by this man emotionally recently, and now he's admitting he lied about seeing other women while pretending he wasn't.

 

Why on earth would keeping such a man around be a good idea, and why would suggesting counseling to get past this relationship that has turned into torture for her be considered 'abuse'?

 

That's a rhetorical question by the way, and my posts are an attempt to help the OP see this man is treating her pretty badly and she's so in love she needs to find a way to see the dysfunction for what it is via going to a therapist or just making a decision to put this man behind her. Of course that choice is up to her... that's a given.

 

sorry -probably needed another comma or three. I am saying that some see what he has done and how he has behaved in the way described and others might see it differently -might benefit from the thrill of the chase, the intensity of the drama - whose to say? (that is why I said short of physical abuse although of course some people like S&M). Some pages up I was accused of interjecting too many negative comments about his treatment of her in this context especially since it is a journal of self-exploration (I don't think I was the only one accused) so I have taken that to heart and tried either not to give that type of input or to try to see it from her perspective and tried to be consistent with the use of a journal as self-exploration as opposed to seeking advice on how she should be treated and what she should look for in a relationship.

 

I never ever wrote that suggesting counseling was abuse! I wrote that short of physical abuse people can differ as to whether the way a man treats a woman or a woman treats a man benefits or hurts the particular individuals. Counseling is a great idea at times of course and it might be so here as well!

 

As far as why to keep him around? IF she is right that this is all because of external crises she might choose to wait until these crises are over.

 

I'm not sure I understood that he lied to her about pursuing other women. I did not think they were exclusive at this point or even really dating.

[IAmFCA]

Wrote twice, lost both.

 

Short: we threw our hands up at our attempts to sabotage, said we didn't want to be with anyone else, and went with it.

 

And no, he didn't lie. Forthcoming when it was clear how much inFormation I wanted to know.

[Batya33]

Do you mean you two are now in an exclusive relationship?