IAmFCA Posted May 6, 2015 Author Share Posted May 6, 2015 you know, in simple terms.... he dated someone, thought he would woo her, got shut down, and said, huh. i think I'll keep ITIC around. I'm making that up, but I like it and it has got some truth in it. i mean, maybe he didn't like her as well, either way. Don't care. I know, I think I got a plan. When is he serious? When he returns me to the company of his family. That is how I know. Link to comment
chickadeedee Posted May 6, 2015 Share Posted May 6, 2015 >>In his favor: this disruption has been 100% his doing (notwithstanding the impact of the clarity of my terms) -- that he has been reluctant to be 100% in when he really couldn't rely on himself to be 100% in. See, that is where you keep wrapping yourself around the axle. You keep thinking if you can find a caveat for his behavior that you can spin positively, that somehow means things are actually better for you than they are. the bottom line is it is what it is, he's not committed to you and is balking at the idea. And that means he's not in a relationship with you and you should treat it for what it is, like he's not in a relationship with you and distracting you from finding your real goal, which is a steady partner. This is a form of covert denial that you need to watch because it leads you to putting yourself in a very passive position where it is all about waiting for him to change, waiting for him to come around, waiting for him to make up his mind, waiting for him to be the man you need him to be based on your own personal spinning of what you hope his behavior WILL mean rather than what his behavior actually is. It becomes about, 'He does X which I really don't like, but he doesn't really mean to do X, or it is OK that he does X because he won't do X in future when he 'progresses' and realizes he really should be doing Y instead of X because we were meant to be together.' So there are a lot of assumptions there and denial of looking at where he actually is and how he is actually behaving and treating you and what he is saying/doing as opposed to how you WANT him to be or how you HOPE he will be in the future if he 'progresses' down some arc you hope he will follow (which he may not). We've all taken many trips around the denial axle when we fall in love, but things become much clearer when you actually look at the behavior you are getting and make decisions based on that as opposed to spinning it to try to make it palatable because you don't want to give up the idea/hope that the person will be who you want him to be and act the way you want him to act when that may not come to pass because so many variables come into play in life. Human beings are extremely complex and never follow a straight arc because they are not that predictable and so many factors can come into play to change their minds or circumstances. Link to comment
IAmFCA Posted May 6, 2015 Author Share Posted May 6, 2015 Received two texts, music his father liked. Ignoring. Link to comment
IAmFCA Posted May 6, 2015 Author Share Posted May 6, 2015 chickadeedee my point re valuing his word was simply with respect to potential credibility if he says he wants to be all in. Bottom line absolutely is whether I am getting what I want, I get that. Why and how he behaves is secondary, if its behavior that works/doesn't work for me is primary. Link to comment
IAmFCA Posted May 6, 2015 Author Share Posted May 6, 2015 If he were to say I'm all in... do I want that? Lol. I don't know, watching him change his behavior has been costly. It will take a minute for me to gauge where he is. Last night when he stopped by, he was insightful re daughter. The introspection is working. I am not going to judge for him what he needs. I need to experience him and see what its like. Already a text from him this morning. I think that makes 5 or 6 that I've ignored. I'll respond to this one because it requires a response, but not immediately. He's been running this game while I have been accommodating the body blows that came at him. It's time for my game now. Link to comment
Batya33 Posted May 6, 2015 Share Posted May 6, 2015 But if he said "I am all in" wouldn't the cost decrease significantly since he was giving you his word at the outset, as opposed to you hunting for signs in his behavior to see if he is all in? Then at least you would simply see if his behavior is consistent with his promise -but that is assuming you trust him. If you don't, then non-starter and too costly as you wrote. And as you wrote since you will know he is all in if "he returns me to the company of his family" I would think that if you don't see that happening ASAP after he says "I'm all in" then you will know (according to your standard) that he is not. Link to comment
IAmFCA Posted May 6, 2015 Author Share Posted May 6, 2015 But if he said "I am all in" wouldn't the cost decrease significantly since he was giving you his word at the outset, as opposed to you hunting for signs in his behavior to see if he is all in? Then at least you would simply see if his behavior is consistent with his promise -but that is assuming you trust him. If you don't, then non-starter and too costly as you wrote. And as you wrote since you will know he is all in if "he returns me to the company of his family" I would think that if you don't see that happening ASAP after he says "I'm all in" then you will know (according to your standard) that he is not. Batya I agree on both counts. I also think it helps/would help-if-it-becomes relevant for me to be a bit more reserved, so he can feel himself making the choice over and over to interact with me. Link to comment
Batya33 Posted May 6, 2015 Share Posted May 6, 2015 In your opinion do you think he will have to feel himself making the choice to be in a serious (or potentially serious) relationship with you more than one time? Link to comment
IAmFCA Posted May 6, 2015 Author Share Posted May 6, 2015 Once married, no, but it will be a stronger bond if he does. He quoted Frank Lloyd Wright yesterday, and why he built Falling Water on top of the waterfall. The owner valued the waterfall, so the architect made the waterfall less accessible, so that the sight of it would remain valuable in perpetuity. We were discussing interior design, but I take from it a broader lesson. Link to comment
Batya33 Posted May 6, 2015 Share Posted May 6, 2015 I was referring to a serious relationship, before marriage. Have you read Loving Frank? (sorry if off-topic, great book!) Link to comment
IAmFCA Posted May 6, 2015 Author Share Posted May 6, 2015 I was referring to a serious relationship, before marriage. Have you read Loving Frank? (sorry if off-topic, great book!) Before marriage, yes, I think it it's important for him to feel himself affirming his choice on occasion No, I'll look it up, thank you! Link to comment
Batya33 Posted May 6, 2015 Share Posted May 6, 2015 And it would also be important for you to re-affirm your choice, or just him? Link to comment
IAmFCA Posted May 6, 2015 Author Share Posted May 6, 2015 And it would also be important for you to re-affirm your choice, or just him? That is a great question! I have usually accused myself of committing too firmly too soon, which in years past led to me then feeling trapped and being hyper critical. Now I am building new patterns, and I am not sure I know the answer to your question. Taking a stab at it: I want to feel the reaffirmation of my choice. Not sure if I NEED to feel the reaffirmation, but I might. A related clue: I tend to dive deep into ideas, people, events, stories... I dive deep looking for that kernel of discovery, of something new. I believe it always is there. Given that, I suspect I NEED to feel the reaffirmation, the value of a new discovery in an old choice. Not sure what that means in terms of day to day operations... This is a new train of thought for me, Batya, thank you for developing it with me. Link to comment
IAmFCA Posted May 6, 2015 Author Share Posted May 6, 2015 The other day we were coordinating on a business issue, and as we were figuring availability... Just realized I told him I was going to the ballet tonight. Didn't tell him with whom. My daughter... In a likely unrelated note, haven't heard from him since we managed the details earlier today. Which is fine. I've no intention to reach out to him until Friday, when I need to enter his property. Link to comment
IAmFCA Posted May 7, 2015 Author Share Posted May 7, 2015 Got two texts telling me of the rest of his day till now, including a detail that means he likely just drove by my house. All the lights are off. He knows I went to the ballet but not with whom. I am not answering his texts. I don't want him to report to me, charm me, or seek my approval. I want him to date me. There has been too much of this pattern of seeking my approval. I'm not your mother. Do what you want. If I deem you worthy, I'll fall in love with you, frankly. Right now, you want me to know you're coming back, but you've not yet addressed the text laid out in front of you, making plain the part of you that is full of baloney. When you give your word, it will be meaningful. Till then, language is just pablum to protect the innocent. There is value in that. But you don't get my sex, which is unfortunate for us both. Not till you are ready to honor and desire and be grateful for an exclusive arrangement. Anyway, in truth it is nice to get those two texts. I'll be nice back during regular hours. Link to comment
chickadeedee Posted May 7, 2015 Share Posted May 7, 2015 >>I don't want him to report to me, charm me, or seek my approval. I want him to date me. EXACTLY!! He's putting more energy into all these circling around you games than he would into actually dating you which is pretty twisted to be honest. Pat pat pat, tap tap tap. All about him and not what you need. After a while these kinds of games become the end, and not the means to actually securing a healthy relationship. All your energy needs to be put into securing a healthy relationship, not pat pat pat tap tap tap games. Link to comment
IAmFCA Posted May 7, 2015 Author Share Posted May 7, 2015 >>I don't want him to report to me, charm me, or seek my approval. I want him to date me. EXACTLY!! He's putting more energy into all these circling around you games than he would into actually dating you which is pretty twisted to be honest. Pat pat pat, tap tap tap. All about him and not what you need. After a while these kinds of games become the end, and not the means to actually securing a healthy relationship. All your energy needs to be put into securing a healthy relationship, not pat pat pat tap tap tap games. I'm not making broad assessments. Just watching to see if he will hold himself accountable or continue with avoidance pattern. It is dawning on him that he already lost the game. I will ask him to be authentic. He will say he can't commit till he knows. I will say I underatand, respect, and agree with that. And I will say, I'd be interested in dating you, but there will be no sex, and that means you will not be interested in dating me, and I'm okay with that. This will leave him bewildered, because it identifies exactly the point where his values and behavior are in conflict. It never goes like that, of course, but it is that simple. Texting this to myself so I remember. Then putting it out of my mind, because he has to speak first. Once I have a plan of attack it is hard for me to sit still. Plan of attack atm is to sit still. Link to comment
IAmFCA Posted May 7, 2015 Author Share Posted May 7, 2015 Ugh. Now that I've sorted out a conversation, it's easier for me to send this same text to him and avoid the whole conversation. Not doing that. Moving on with my day. Link to comment
faraday Posted May 7, 2015 Share Posted May 7, 2015 I have a hard time waiting for things to play out too. I just want to get it over and done with...but I've often regretted my forward approach good on you for having patience. Link to comment
mhowe Posted May 7, 2015 Share Posted May 7, 2015 "Let the River Take You. Don't Fight the Current. Eventually You Will Get to the Same Place and You Won't Be So Tired." ( M. Howe) Link to comment
IAmFCA Posted May 7, 2015 Author Share Posted May 7, 2015 Thank you ladies. I've neither patience nor discipline. Maybe he will say or do something unexpected. If I am in control all the time, I will receive only as much as I can envision. I lose nothing by letting time pass, and gain everything there is to gain, if there is anything at all. At worst, I come out even. Link to comment
mhowe Posted May 7, 2015 Share Posted May 7, 2015 Same team as you ITIC. I have neither patience, discipline ---- and when I want something, very little wisdom. Link to comment
IAmFCA Posted May 7, 2015 Author Share Posted May 7, 2015 Same team as you ITIC. I have neither patience, discipline ---- and when I want something, very little wisdom. LOL I'm trying to use yours now to supplant my own. You know the drill: Vision it, plan it, achieve it. It is so freaking obvious to me. As is that quieter voice saying, yes, but everyone comes into that at their own pace. WHATEVER! Link to comment
mhowe Posted May 7, 2015 Share Posted May 7, 2015 I have tons of wisdom for others....you are welcome to it. I have tunnel vision and want a FF button when it comes to my own life. Doing NC in regard to my relationship was harder than I ever imagined. Patience is not a virtue that I have ever obtained. Link to comment
IAmFCA Posted May 7, 2015 Author Share Posted May 7, 2015 I have tons of wisdom for others....you are welcome to it. I have tunnel vision and want a FF button when it comes to my own life. Doing NC in regard to my relationship was harder than I ever imagined. Patience is not a virtue that I have ever obtained. I appreciate your candor MHowe. Useful! Link to comment
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