Women, age and fertility - Lif is Totally Unfair

[Sirenia]

Hi Lonewing,

Thanks for your reply, it's honest but also sympathetic.

 

My boyfriend also thinks that moving back to my home country would be the best option for me but I don't feel like it is. For one thing, I know that my parents want grandchildren and although they haven't pressured me as such, I know that they really want me to settle down with a partner and have their grandchildren.

 

They are not the reason I want children though. It's something I could always see myself doing. I enjoy playing with kids and doing kids stuff. I don't enjoy going to nightclubs and staying up all night. Right after my divorce back in 2008 I was going to a lot of events, especially free outdoor ones and it turned out that they were almost always family events and I started to feel a bit weird about that.

 

The thing is, I don't have a great 'home' to go back to either. My parents are divorced, my dad is clinically depressed and barely leaves the house, doesn't see or talk to anyone, my mother is living on peanuts, has to look after her older partner with frail health...

 

I feel that life would be far more stressful if I were to return home. I don't have the loving, warm, conventional home/parents/family that some people do.

 

Another reason I don't want to go home is that while I have more friends there than here, I've 'lost' a lot of friends simply because we've lost contact or they don't 'get' me and my new life etc... (apparently it happens to all expats not just me)... I don't feel there is anything for me at home even though I have loving parents, and there are far more and better job opportunities there for me. I also have health problems back home that I don't have here.

 

I want to stay living here (in Europe) because this is where I can see my future. I enjoy learning foreign languages, I enjoy art,history,culture and I'm not ready to give that up yet, even if it is hard to live here and even harder to find a job here.

 

I think I'll give it a good try (finding a job here AND looking elsewhere) for a few more months and if it doesn't work then I'll have to make other plans.

[Batya33]

"Do I give up someone who feels like the love of my life, OR do I give up the one chance to have kids?"

 

I only know one person who chose the love of her life over having kids (he didn't want more children -he is divorced). They've been married a few years and she seems happy but I don't know her personally. I was very surprised at her decision. I never, ever would have made that choice. I was not in your situation that you describe and I'm sorry things are so difficult but as far as the children part I would not stay with this man and give up your dream of having a child.

[lavenderdove]

>>I can't bear the thought of starting life over AGAIN, and looking for a job AND partner all over again from the start like a 22 year old.

 

There are no guarantees in life as you are discovering.

 

But there are certain realities that you must deal with. For example, will this current BF be willing to continue to support you if you run out of money? As an adult, regardless of whether you want a baby or a husband or whatever, you've been out of work nearly a year and need to get yourself gainfully employed to survive unless you are willing to stay wtih this BF *and* he is willing to support you while you don't work.

 

So regardless of anything else you 'want', you have a larger 'need' at this point to take care of your survival first. So that will drive other decisions at this point in time.

 

You received a ton of excellent advice earlier in this thread, but 6 months later you are still not dealing with current realities and instead are hammering the same nail about the unfairness of life and wanting a family and kids when the man you are with doesn't want them. That is your bottom line. He is not interested in kids, though it sounds like he would agree to be family with you if you make the choice to not have kids. So that is a choice it is time for you to make (past time for you to make) whether you will choose him or not. And if you don't choose him and a life without kids, then it is way past time to move on.

 

Don't think about moving to a place where you can extend your savings longer, think about moving to the most appropriate place to actually get a JOB. You are of an age where you not only need to worry about kids, but also about supporting yourself, helping your parents, saving for retirement etc. So you need to get real here, and make decisions to take care of very real realities like you need a job unless you've got someone who has the money and desire to support you indefinitely. And moving to some country where you sit on your keister and obsess more about not having kids isn't the answer. Finding a job and re-engaging in normal life is.

 

Next, even if you met your perfect man tomorrow, you may never get pregnant. Or any other number of things both positive or negative might happen. So you need to stop emotionally DEMANDING you get exactly what you want or the world is a bad place. No, the world is a MAGICAL place with so many opportunities and marvelous things, but it is also unpredictable and about change so nothing is guaranteed. So you need to learn how to be more flexible and adapt rather than sitting in a dark corner and crying because the world hasn't handed you exactly what you want. EVERYONE must make hard choices, as must you.

 

So time to make a hard choice and based on REALITY that it is time to make a decision as to whether to say with the BF or not, and also to make a decision that will put you in a place where you have a very good chance of finding a new job soon if you decide to not stay with your BF.

 

If you just stick around and cry in his lap while your money dwindles away, eventually you might get to the point where you don't have the option because he'll get sick of you making him feel like a criminal because he doesn't want children and he'll toss you out. So life has a funny way of making decisions for you if you don't make decisions on your own.

 

I think you need to seriously consider getting some therapy once you get a job and have the resources for it. You don't want to spend your life being ungrateful and bitter when honestly your life is what YOU make of it and not handed to you on a platter. You need to learn that you don't always get what you want (exactly) but you can prioritize and get MOST of what you want if you work for it. So maybe you can't have a husband and family and be a stay at home mother. But maybe you can be a working mother. Or maybe you can have a wonderful partner but no kids. So you may end up with 80% of what you want if you prioritize and make plans to make things happen. But you'll end up with 0% of what you want if you spend your time being bitter, doing nothing, refusing to make decisions, and whining about how life done you wrong.

 

So time to women up! You need to sit down and list your priorities and then make decisions based on those priorities. And frankly I doubt your BF will let you stick around forever crying in his lap and not working, so you need to do this soon. Maybe it will be worthwhile to pay for 3 or 4 counseling sessions to help you decide what you want to do. But you need to do SOMETHING and accept that life is what you make it, and you need to recognize that bitterness or indecision is not the answer to this, nor chasing fantasies that are not working out within the current context of this BF.

[Lonewing]

I learned from my first ex that no matter how good one partner is, it's never a sure thing.

 

If this is near and dear to your heart, I would not compromise this issue until after you're sufficiently barren or have hit menopause and the issue of children has been completely removed from the table.

 

There are many, many great men and women out there, you can't get stuck on the wrong one.

[faraday]

I have a large group of friends (well, more acquaintances- life takes you in different directions, you know?) from high school (there are about 10 of us)...anyway, about 4 of them are married, and the other 6 are always single. Like we're 30-35...and they haven't had bfs in 10 years....and I can tell you why each of those women are single. They all have self esteem issues.

 

My friend Jen is a bit heavier. A year ago, she weighed what I weigh now (I gained 30 pounds due to a medication I was on- and she's gained 30 pounds since then) and she would always talk about how men weren't interested in her at her weight, they only wanted skinny chicks...blah blah blah. Well...I have had no problem meeting men at this weight. My bf thinks I'm ridiculously hot. But you know what? I think I'm hot. She thought she was fat and horrid and who would love her? (yes, she's said those things to me). And that's why she's single.

 

Sarah feels she's attractive (she is) but she always goes for guys that don't have their lives together. You know...the ski hill bums...the ones that can't commit to any girl because they're too busy living for themselves...her picker is broken. A large part of why it's broken is because she doesn't feel like she has her life together enough to deserve a man that has it together. She projects that onto men she meets...and so the good ones run away (and she's not interested in them anyway).

 

Tara is a 32 year old bar star. Every weekend she gets super dressed up, goes clubbing...makes out with a random and goes home. She sleeps with every guy on the second date...because they validate that she's attractive. She doesn't discriminate at all with the men she dates. If he's interested, so is she. She has no filter...so she gets the "pump and dump" because she doesn't value herself.

 

Tracy had an accident a few years prior to me meeting her, and had part of her hand amputated. She was depressed, stayed home and lived on chips in front of the TV. She finally woke up around 34 (I had just met her at that time because she started leaving the house) and the first man she met, she married. Joe was a nice guy...but he had momma issues...meaning his mom ran his life. He wasn't capable of doing anything on his own without being told to do it first. They had a child within a year, and Tracy started working out...and 3 years later divorced him. She's now dating another loser because she doesn't have her life together and thinks she doesn't deserve a good person because she hurt her ex husband so badly.

 

Sadly, I have so many more examples of this.

 

The thing is...none of these women realize these things about themselves. They don't self reflect. They keep doing the same thing on repeat hoping for different results.

 

Instead of thinking "all men want younger women" or "they don't have to worry about fertility"...start analyzing yourself. You can't change the men that do think like that (and I think there's far fewer than you think of those guys), but you can change yourself.

 

Love yourself. Value yourself much higher than you do. Know your boundaries and when someone doesn't fit in with what you want, cut them out of your life immediately. It doesn't matter how old you are, how much you weigh, what your career is like, how tall you are, if you wear make up...people will perceive you how you perceive yourself. So...make yourself a high value woman.

 

I don't agree with the idea that we should settle or lower our standards. I think we should adjust our expectations to realistic, but I think most people (not just women) have too low of expectations...and that they need to filter MORE, not less. It's not about having/dating someone with a broad appeal, but finding someone that fits you perfectly.

 

****Sorry, I replied to the OP...I didn't realize this was an old thread********

[faraday]

So...are you say you're happy with him....but something doesn't feel right in the way you're writing it.

 

Are you really happy with him or are you scared of being alone? Because...I get the fear of starting over feeling from you more than the "wow, I can't live without this man" feeling.

 

LavenderLove's post is on the money.

[Sirenia]

Thank you, everyone, for your comments and advice. I really really appreciate them. You've given me a lot to think about. I see my main goal right now is to get a job and then I'm sure the rest will fall into place... even if it will take some time.

 

I will post back in a few more months, hopefully with some good news to report!!

[Sportster2005]

First world problems. Life is unfair, sit down with a starving Somali child and tell them all about it.

[Sirenia]

What a stupid, useless, immature response. I don't need people like you replying, please. I never said that my problems were worse than a starving Somali child but the thing is, a starving Somali child is probably surrounded by thousands or millions of other starving Somali children whereas I feel like I'm surrounded by happy married couples with kids. That's the difference between me and the Somali child (who is not surrounded by rich, white, well fed children).

 

Like normal people, I compare my life to those around me, and who are similar to me in age, educational background, socio-economic status etc etc, not to someone whose life is so far off from mine.

[Rosti87]

What a stupid, useless, immature response. I don't need people like you replying, please. I never said that my problems were worse than a starving Somali child but the thing is, a starving Somali child is probably surrounded by thousands or millions of other starving Somali children whereas I feel like I'm surrounded by happy married couples with kids. That's the difference between me and the Somali child (who is not surrounded by rich, white, well fed children).

 

Like normal people, I compare my life to those around me, and who are similar to me in age, educational background, socio-economic status etc etc, not to someone whose life is so far off from mine.

As long as you compare yourself to others... As long as you look outside yourself to define your happiness and/or your value the more unhappy you will be. Be proactive. If your eggs are still young have them frozen so if you find someone past your childbearing years you can go surrogate. Expand your social circle to include single women. There are plenty of them out there. If you associate with people who are like you and live your lifestyle you will have a better perspective. On your own life.

 

The happiest people in the world are the ones who live their lives by their own drum not the ones who force themselves to conform to some 'norm' that hasn't existed since the 21st century.

[Blue Spiral]

First world problems. Life is unfair, sit down with a starving Somali child and tell them all about it.

 

You could post that in about 99% of the threads on ENA. Don't hold that against the OP.

[Batya33]

As long as you compare yourself to others... As long as you look outside yourself to define your happiness and/or your value the more unhappy you will be. Be proactive. If your eggs are still young have them frozen so if you find someone past your childbearing years you can go surrogate. Expand your social circle to include single women. There are plenty of them out there. If you associate with people who are like you and live your lifestyle you will have a better perspective. On your own life.

 

The happiest people in the world are the ones who live their lives by their own drum not the ones who force themselves to conform to some 'norm' that hasn't existed since the 21st century.

 

Well another benefit of meeting other single women is that you might meet more men - not "leftovers" but simply people who those women didn't click with but thought you might.

[Ms Darcy]

Thank you, everyone, for your comments and advice. I really really appreciate them. You've given me a lot to think about. I see my main goal right now is to get a job and then I'm sure the rest will fall into place... even if it will take some time.

 

I will post back in a few more months, hopefully with some good news to report!!

 

I'm confused. Catch me up?

 

So, your bf would marry you but doesn't want kids? And why would you move away? Would he move with you?

[Lonewing]

Like normal people, I compare my life to those around me, and who are similar to me in age, educational background, socio-economic status etc etc, not to someone whose life is so far off from mine.

 

Most of us learn to grow out of that phase by...well, high school, I'd hope.

[Batya33]

Most of us learn to grow out of that phase by...well, high school, I'd hope.

 

I disagree. I think it's normal at any age and hopefully one's reactions to those feelings of comparing/inadequacy change as one grows older.

[wilyone 11]

A few thoughts on this thread and the article you linked to:

 

1. Just because a bunch of men on OKCupid or other hookup sites want to bang younger chicks doesn't mean they want to marry them. On average, men end up marrying women who are two years younger.

 

2. I also used to assume that men in their 30's wanted women in their 20's or early 30's. I'm in my early 40's. But over the past 6 months I've been pursued for relationships by a few guys who are 8-10 years younger than me, as well as men my own age. It has somewhat changed my beliefs. A lot of it has to do with the energy you radiate. When you feel good about yourself and your life, men are drawn like magnets. I suspect that you are not radiating any of this positive feminine energy.

 

3. If there's any way you can afford it, you should get your eggs frozen now. You could obviously try IVF, use a surrogate in the future or adopt, or marry someone who already has young children and step into your dream that way. I don't know how important it is to give birth to your own children, but there are other ways to achieve the essence of what you want.

 

4. I agree that women are at a disadvantage in the dating world with the biological time clock. If a woman is desperate to have children, she will start radiating desperation by her mid to late 30's. There is absolutely nothing attractive about desperation and anxiety. However, I think most men would prefer to have kids at a younger age as well. Do you think men want to be 65 when their kids are in high school? No, they want to be healthy and alive to see their kids grow up, get degrees, get married, have kids, and enjoy their grandkids etc.

 

5. You will NEVER attract what you want by sobbing and bemoaning its absence. Instead, you will attract and create more misery. You need to pull yourself out of this mindset if you want to change your life.

 

6. You should do everything you can to improve your life, start focusing on the positive (make lists of what you are grateful for including socks on your feet and having food to eat), imagine your dreams coming true, and then surrendering them to the universe.

[Sportster2005]

What a stupid, useless, immature response. I don't need people like you replying, please. I never said that my problems were worse than a starving Somali child but the thing is, a starving Somali child is probably surrounded by thousands or millions of other starving Somali children whereas I feel like I'm surrounded by happy married couples with kids. That's the difference between me and the Somali child (who is not surrounded by rich, white, well fed children).

 

Like normal people, I compare my life to those around me, and who are similar to me in age, educational background, socio-economic status etc etc, not to someone whose life is so far off from mine.

 

I'm not comparing your problems to a Somali child. I'm pointing out you should be grown up enough not to whine about life being unfair. If that strikes you as stupid, useless, and immature that's your issue, not mine.

[Lonewing]

I disagree. I think it's normal at any age and hopefully one's reactions to those feelings of comparing/inadequacy change as one grows older.

 

Well then that explains why so many have such poor self esteem, or take twenty and thirty years to finally realize they are doing the things they are doing in their life to appease the rat race, versus doing what actually making them happy.

 

The only comparison you should ever make in life is yourself versus where you want to be, and if where you are is not what you want to be, then you have to get up and change it. Comparing yourself to other people as a means of valuing yourself is a rather poor way of going about it.

[Batya33]

Well then that explains why so many have such poor self esteem, or take twenty and thirty years to finally realize they are doing the things they are doing in their life to appease the rat race, versus doing what actually making them happy.

 

The only comparison you should ever make in life is yourself versus where you want to be, and if where you are is not what you want to be, then you have to get up and change it. Comparing yourself to other people as a means of valuing yourself is a rather poor way of going about it.

 

 

I agree with you. But what you wrote has nothing to do with what I wrote. As an aside, I know I didn't get married and have a child because of any "rat race" - and I think my experience is typical.

[Sportster2005]

You could post that in about 99% of the threads on ENA. Don't hold that against the OP.

 

I bristle when people play the life is unfair card. A six year old child just diagnosed with aggressive brain cancer can claim life is unfair. Someone experiencing life's normal ups and downs, not so much.

[missmarple]

I bristle when people play the life is unfair card. A six year old child just diagnosed with aggressive brain cancer can claim life is unfair. Someone experiencing life's normal ups and downs, not so much.

 

Once more, I agree with you.

It's one thing to ask about a problem and completely different to say life is unfair.

 

Also...OP, don't compare your life to others...you never know exactly how someone's life is, no matter what you see from the outside.

[Batya33]

I guess I never thought of life as being particularly fair. Certainly there are degrees of unfairness and complaining is probably counterproductive (even in a tragic situation like cancer - although of course I wouldn't blame them).

[Rosti87]

I guess I never thought of life as being particularly fair. Certainly there are degrees of unfairness and complaining is probably counterproductive (even in a tragic situation like cancer - although of course I wouldn't blame them).

There are people who are born with disabilities and various impediments and they find ways to enjoy their lives. There are people of certain ethnic groups who happen to be born in societies that hate them and find happiness despite the odds. Life is what you make of it.

[Rosti87]

I guess I never thought of life as being particularly fair. Certainly there are degrees of unfairness and complaining is probably counterproductive (even in a tragic situation like cancer - although of course I wouldn't blame them).

There are people who are born with disabilities and various impediments and they find ways to enjoy their lives. There are people of certain ethnic groups who happen to be born in societies that hate them and find happiness despite the odds. Life is what you make of it.

[Batya33]

There are people who are born with disabilities and various impediments and they find ways to enjoy their lives. There are people of certain ethnic groups who happen to be born in societies that hate them and find happiness despite the odds. Life is what you make of it.

 

I'm not sure why you quoted my post. We are in agreement.