ping pong show.....on our honeymoon

[abitbroken]

I was with an emotionally and verbally abusive man and no matter how i was committed to him, it just got worse. I stayed because the good times would be awesome but the bad times would get worse and worse.

 

I think you don't know what it is like to be truly respected, so you are just taking his behavior. No man should have to brag that they never hit a woman, but yet belittle them. It should be something that doesn't even cross their mind to do.

[lavenderdove]

OK, i'll be blunt here and keep it short... so he yells, pouts, AND cries because you told him you don't want to see a prostitute shoot a ping-pong ball out of her hoo-ha on your honeymoon?

 

Just think about that for a minute. He has showed you in one episode that the most important thing in the world to him is getting his own way which includes watching sexual perversions, at at time when he should be interested in making this honeymoon so special to YOU and not an opportunity to get his freak on ogling prostitutes doing weird things.

 

Really, this is about as big a red flag as you can get. Most men who are considerate and mature enough for marriage and love their wives go to great lengths to ensure their bride will be happy on her honeymoon. And your BF is CRYING because the bride doesn't want to watch an enslaved Thai girl put weird things in her hoo-ha!!

 

I think you need counseling to see how strange this really is, and how troubled HE really is. Perhaps a 13 year old boy might cry when he is told no and is frustrated, but a grown man who cries because he can't see prostitutes because his bride wants a normal honeymoon has a BIG problem.

 

It sounds like you are going to do this one way or another, but i suggest you get him into counseling and be HONEST with the counselor and tell them about this episode and that he is also suicidal. I can't imagine trying to do a wedding with someone who is suicidal and is telling you he is bored with you and wants to go to freak shows rather than have a normal wedding/honeymoon with you. There is something very wrong here, and he needs treatment.

[Seraphim]

I could have not said this better myself. Not only that who wants to support sexual slavery in other countries that just boggles my mind. Most of these "women" are children who are being severely abused. It is revolting really. He needs SERIOUS help. Him and his friends are supporting abuse.

[Hanz33]

hrmm I have read all your posts and I greatly apprechiate your comments. I have been reading up on abuse, control, etc and it made me dawn on something... perhaps I am the abusive one? - My Reasoning: I do snoop allot - because I am worried my fiance will cheat on me even though he hasn't done anything in the past. I tell him out front that I do, in fact I do it in front of him as well. I've always told him up front that it concerns me - not becasue I don't trust the man who he is today but becasue people can change - especially if he is in a man filled rig who more often than not have low morals and cheat on their wives. Living in this environment for 6 months of the year is bound to rub off on people. But is this controlling? Is this trying to force him to be a loyal person? I know logically I could never stop somebody from cheating, but maybe threw these actions I subconsiously try.

 

I apologise to him to 'fix' an argument so in a sense - I take control of the situation

 

When he ignores me after I have spoken to him calmly - I explode into anger.. I yell at him and tell him that we can't fix things if he doesn't talk to me. Then I settle down after about 30 mins and go back and apologise for my behaviour and start calmly trying to reslove things.

 

I push him to talk to me when he wont. He tells me to go away and I don't. I can't stand being ignored.

 

I question why he doesn't call when he is on the rigs. Not directly.

 

I indrectly let him know how I feel about things to avoid an argument me. E.g so and so went to a prostitute - playing russian roulette with stds! and he has a wife! How low can you get?" (no he hasn't been to any prostitutes its just an example)

 

Maybe I created all of this. Maybe I am the casue of our crappy relationship at the moment?

[redrose85]

No, you are not the abusive one. It takes two and you both are lacking in proper communication. My major qualm with him is that his manipulates to get what he wants. He even manipulates you to believe that you are the problem. I have been there. Please get out while you still can or you’ll be back here in 6 mos posting about your horrible divorce. Do not marry this guy. Marriage doesn’t guarantee a healthy relationship.

[abitbroken]

Really? You really think that by claiming to be the abuser that you will convince us that he is a wonderful man that treats you well and you cause him to act this way? One sure sign of a victim is when they think they "deserve" or "caused" the abuse. Well, maybe you do things to...but this is a TOXIC RELATIONSHIP for both of you no matter what way you slice it.

 

You are abusive because you question why he doesn't call you when he is away for six months? Really? You think its BAD to wonder why a fiance doesn't call you in days weeks or months? It seems any time you do something to demand respect for yourself, you think it is abusing him or unreasonable.

 

Also, you are blaming the "environment" for his behavior. i have worked with people who were cheating on their spouses with eachother, who were selling drugs (they got caught) and whatever else and it never crossed my mind to do any of those things no matter how much it was in front of me because it is far from what my moral compass is. Despite peer pressure or people saying "you should do this, its no big deal" i still said no and steered far clear of it. It is not his coworkers. It is either his determination of right and wrong is flexible and he is easily clouded or this is who he really is.

 

I think you are trying to normalize his requests and behavior because you know something is wrong but want to keep him and are willing to lose yourself, your self esteem and self respect to do so.

 

Also, about the "show" - you were sexually abused and want to marry a man who thinks its either funny or titallating to watch other very young women who are being sexually abused by either being molested, doing things against their will or doing things that they want to do but only under threat of their family being harmed. Some of thse girls were kidnapped right from their families at an early age.

 

Believe me, if you get away and create physical space and surround yourself with support and support groups from people who have been there, you will be amazed that you were ever in this spot.

[Hanz33]

I guess I am looking for an alternative answer. but i still feel like he doesn't abuse (if it is that) me intentionally and its something we can work on. p.s his not away for 6 months.. ergh I couldn't handle that! its 2 weeks on 2 weeks off but equates for half the year - Bad explination on my behalf soz.

[anna0511]

I've been following this thread for a few days now, without knowing what I could add to the conversation. But from what I can tell from your posts is that you are a young, loving and wonderful woman who has so much to give. I don't think you realize that you deserve only the best kind of man.

 

If you are feeling even a pang of doubt, please don't be afraid to change your mind, or speak out to your family and friends. I can only imagine how difficult it must be, but never underestimate the strength of your courage. You seem

[lavenderdove]

>>perhaps I am the abusive one?

 

No, you are not. You are showing classic signs of an abuse survivor, where you are anxious and worried because you have experienced trauma in your past.

 

BUT, you are not to blame for his behavior! Would you ever in a million years suggest visiting Thai prostitutes on your honeymoon? No! He's the one who came up with the twisted idea.

 

And why doesn't he call you from the rigs? That makes no sense at all! Of course that should make you wonder and worry and question what he is doing and want him to be normal in his desire to talk to you, which he should.

 

The problem with abuse survivors is they have had such egregious behavior done to them by those that supposedly love them, that they don't really know what behavior is appropriate and what isn't. And they tend to blame themselves for everything because abusers play terrible mind games to get the abused to believe it is their fault they are abused, or that the abuse is OK and they are wrong if they feel bad about being abused.

 

So this incident is classic. Your BF suggests a RIDICULOUS idea like you should go watch enslaved prostitutes do perverted things on YOUR honeymoon, which is WAY out of line from the 'normal' perspective, then when you object, he instantly turns around and attacks you and tries to make you feel like you're being unreasonable, then he throws in a bait and switch manipulation by screaming that you're the problem and you never let him have any fun!

 

So no, you are NOT the problem here. As as I said before, i think you both need some counseling... you to learn what is appropriate and really process the abuse from your past so you can live a normal life, and him to deal with his pornography obsession and suicidal ideation. You will not be able to have a happy and normal relationship until you both do get counseling. And even then you may not if he doesn't take responsibility for seeking pornography and blaming you every time any of his wishes get told no.

[jimmyh]

I remember this thread being disturbing to me. I read some of OP's stuff and I have one advice. Forget ping pong, enslaved women and the like. You can't even talk to this dude. Forget even whose fault is. The point is that there is no communication between you two. The other point is that he abuses you and you don't know how to defend yourself. Luckily, you still try (by yelling). And there is the trust issue (also from lack of communication). Then he's immature. Why stay? Wait for him to come around?

 

In conclusion, I think you should leave. You can try to work things out by getting him to go to counseling with you first. Don't go alone, though. Alternatively, learn how to be the abuser (silent treatment and the like) and slowly transform him into the "yes, dear" guy. I'm sure you'll be happy that way.

[Seraphim]

Let me ask you, have you had any therapy for all the abuse your family put you through and for being sexually assaulted?

[tiredofvampires]

His a nice guy in general. Plenty of affection and doesn't expect me to get tea on the table etc etc. So I hope I didn't depict that. I think his main problem is he has to automatically defend himself when I question his opinions on something and automatically feels like I am attacking him and he naturally responds negatively. To put it blunly, I cannot disagree with him. I agree he has a bit of a twisted point of view about what a honeymoon should be, but I don't think it is enough to stop the wedding?? It does make me extremely nervous though...but the wedding is at the end of july and everything has been paid for (by my parents btw), god bless them.

 

THIS is why you should not marry this man.

 

Not the ping pong show. The ping pong show is just one of many situations where he will need to assert his selfishness in a way that makes you feel it's your fault.

 

He will spend his life intimidating you into silence and acquiescence, or else outright yelling an crying matches.

 

Not only will he not allow YOU to disagree with him, but if you wish to have kids, he will not allow his children to, either. Which is highly destructive to a child's growing individuality. He is someone who can't be wrong, must have his way, and emotionally blackmails others into giving in.

 

This can't be fixed. Not in therapy, not talking it out. It's a very deep character issue.

 

My mom had a husband like this. This was my father. And life was a living hell.

 

You need to get out while you can.

[Seraphim]

I agree. My husband had a father who was an emotional bully and he barely made it out of that house in an emotional sense. My husband now has life long issues because he grew up with a man like that,

[savignon]

Am I the only one who doesn't know what a ping pong show is? How about one night out to dinner/sight seeing in that town to ease his curiosity an then the rest of the trip dedicated to the more romantic things Thailand has to offer? Not sure if that's an ok compromise since I'm not quite sure what "ping pong" is..??

[savignon]

Am I the only one who doesn't know what a ping pong show is? How about one night out to dinner/sight seeing in that town to ease his curiosity an then the rest of the trip dedicated to the more romantic things Thailand has to offer? Not sure if that's an ok compromise since I'm not quite sure what "ping pong" is..??

Cancel that...I just read more of the thread and I think it would be very wise to question your level of commitment at this point. It's very hard to contemplate divorce later on when you're all the more entwined and losing a few deposits now on wedding stuff won't compare to the pain and financial mess of a divorce down the road. Especially I you have kids. I'm not satin don't marry him...I don't know the situation at all really. I'm saying to ask yourself if you are valued and respected. It's a yes or no....not "well no but it's because...". You deserve to be valued and respected. Period.

[Miss Firecracker]

I guess I am looking for an alternative answer. but i still feel like he doesn't abuse (if it is that) me intentionally and its something we can work on. p.s his not away for 6 months.. ergh I couldn't handle that! its 2 weeks on 2 weeks off but equates for half the year - Bad explination on my behalf soz.

 

I fear all the energy put into 14 pages isn't really being heard. I hope that isn't true. One day, when you are married to this man and under his full control, I think you will look back on this and wish you could turn back time. But then your good years will be over, and there will be fewer choices for a mate.

[Wayfara]

Am I being uptight and taking the honeymoon thing unrealistically?

 

No, in my opinion it's very normal to not want to see a ping pong show and even more more normal to not want to see one on your honeymoon. I would be turned off just knowing my partner wanted to see a show like that, especially in a country famous for their trafficked under-aged prostitutes. A show like that literally publicly humiliates these rape victims for entertainment, I would be very disturbed knowing a partner got enjoyment from that and supported it by paying for it.

 

he said a guy at the rig said prostitution doesn't count as cheating becasue its hte postitutes job - you aren't telling her you love her etc. He said he wouldn't do it but gets his point of view..... does anybody else find this completely messed up? I can't justify this in any way shape or form. - does it sound like he is trying to test my boundaries?

 

Yes, I think he is trying to test your boundaries. I think he wants to judge how mad you would be if he decided to do it.

 

he also mentioned that I pretty much made him want to kill him self this week after i mentioned the ping pong show biz

 

So he is essentially saying a life without ping pong shows is a life not worth living.

 

If he is willing to put our marriage at potential risk for a couple of days in Thailand with the 'mates' then that clearly shows me his level of commitment and I won't even question my thoughts on that matter. It would be a same-day decision.

 

Do you think he would cheat if he did?

 

he use to get angry at me when I would wake up crying every now and again from dreaming about those crappy men and he would get angry at me for it. Then he started trying to ask me to talk about it - i would refuse and he would get angry at me. Now.. he just hugs me becasue he knows I don't need to talk about it - I just need a hug. So its an example of him adapting/compromising and caring.

 

Hugging someone in emotional pain would be the default reaction for most people, only a jerk would get mad at a rape victim for having nightmares.

 

I took his opinion into consideration and he literallaly told me to "shutup I don't want to hear about it"

 

If he doesn't want talk he could say it in a nicer way, telling someone to shut up is pretty disrespectful.

 

I am worried also that all t his is coming from his rig working. He has been doing this for about 12 months now I think - and I feel like his attitude has changed ALOT.

 

Do you want to be someone who is so easily influenced by others?

 

He always asks me to do stuff, almost every day, and says things like "you never do that to me anymore" if I decline, even if I did it the day before..

 

With that attitude he is making sex feel like work to you, it almost seems like he expect you be like a prostitute ready to serve him whenever he wants.

 

Maybe I am not speaking to him the right way and it is making him go off every time I mention something negative.

 

You shouldn't have to walk on egg shells with your partner, he sound very sensitive.

 

his sister is sleeping around allot and I feel sorry for her becasue her family has literally disowned her adn she has no where to go - I said she is crying out to be loved. He said - if my daughter did that i would drag her home tell her what a f****ing idiot she was and some other form of punishment. - My view is if our daughter is doing that we need to address it by being completely calm about the situation as to not push her away from us and make it worse.

 

Do you really want children with a man who would treat a daughter like that?

 

I love allot of the things he does for me as well e.g - well he cooks for me, he realises when I am tired and hugs me till I fall asleep, he gives me a massage when my muscles are sore from excersising. That doesn't sound abusive to me

 

It's not the lack of good things that makes the abuser, it's the abuse. Being able to hug doesn't make him less manipulative.

 

I always believe it is both parties that casue 'the problem'. So I'm willing to admit any faults that I have and the fact that he is willing to go to therapy with me is a good sign isn't it?

 

Yes, generally both parties cause the problem. He has no reason to change when you accept his behavior.

 

I think people can put too much faith in the power of therapy. Therapy might help if he really wants to change and put in a lot of effort but it will take years and if he isn't 100% motivated then no amount of therapy will help him. To me he doesn't sound that motivated as he doesn't want to hear your side to things.

 

I don't think it is enough to stop the wedding?? It does make me extremely nervous though...but the wedding is at the end of july and everything has been paid for (by my parents btw), god bless them.

 

Do you want to marry him as he is now? If yes, well no reason to cancel it. If no then that is a good reason to stop the wedding.

 

Yes, you will lose money but that is better than an unhappy marriage. Ask your parents if they would be dispaponinted if you don't go ahead with marriage after you have told them how your fiancee feels suicidal because he can't see a ping pong show in Thailand, how he used to get mad when you had nightmares, how he guilt trips you when you don't serve him sexually, how he doesn't think sleeping with a prostitute is cheating etc. Maybe your parents will be relieved more than anything.

 

If I end up in a divorce, I'll come back and let you all say - I told you so.

 

I don't think anyone want to tell you "I told you so", they are just worried that you are going to waste your youth on an unhappy marriage.

[Hanz33]

Let me ask you, have you had any therapy for all the abuse your family put you through and for being sexually assaulted?

no. . I have been to several psychologists when I was ordered to as a requirement to be let out of hospital and never had any interest in discussing anything and nor do I now. I don't want to dwell on it and I feel in some weird way by not speaking the words I have created a safety net for me. If I spoke about it to somebody face to face I think all my efforts would crumble and I don't want anybody to associate me as 'that drama queen'

[Hanz33]

I agree. My husband had a father who was an emotional bully and he barely made it out of that house in an emotional sense. My husband now has life long issues because he grew up with a man like that,

 

my partner was as well. but isn't your husband a success story if you to are making it? why can't we

[Hanz33]

I've been following this thread for a few days now, without knowing what I could add to the conversation. But from what I can tell from your posts is that you are a young, loving and wonderful woman who has so much to give. I don't think you realize that you deserve only the best kind of man.

 

If you are feeling even a pang of doubt, please don't be afraid to change your mind, or speak out to your family and friends. I can only imagine how difficult it must be, but never underestimate the strength of your courage. You seem

 

The reason I won't stop this is mainly:

 

I don't want to disappoint everyone. I don't want to split up with him but I do want to hold off the wedding till everything is sorted. I feel physically sick feeling forced into marrying the guy. I expressed 'some' concern with my mother and she said don't worry about it, it will work out. I vagly mentioned it to my sister said it was a bit too late to be having second thoughts. My father absolutely loves this guy and would scorn me for life. My partner wouldn't be able to coup with me rejecting him like that and would leave.

 

How am I suppose to make such an important life long decision in such a short space of time? If I thought about the 6 years we have been together - I would say yes I want to marry him and I am confident that he is a good person. If I think the last 2 months - I think no, no way in the world - I don't even know this guy anymore. Yet this is the only last 2 months?

 

In all seriousness I know I should cancel this wedding - I kinda had a panic attack the other becasue I couldn't work out how I could get out of this in a positive way. Either way is going to end up in heartbreak.

 

In 2 days I am going on my Hens 'fortnight' which my mum and sister organised. They have spent thousands on this as well. Not to mention everybody who comes from all over the world are coming to the wedding and have already booked their flights and can't get refunds.

 

I can't do this to everybody.

[Seraphim]

my partner was as well. but isn't your husband a success story if you to are making it? why can't we

 

My husband has never had a fit because I would not support abuse of women. My husband does not support sexual abuse of women. My husband would never I mean NEVER degrade me sexually. He would never do it and I would never put up with that. He would certainly never and I mean never yell at me about going to show with prostitutes on my honeymoon. I would think he had lost his ever loving mind and I would never have married him. My husband is a success, yes, because he has empathy and he has common sense and would never subject me to anything like that. He also has had years of therapy and medications that I have supported him through and he is working through his issues and constantly strives to improve. We have been together a long time, 24 years together and married for 18 of them. I can tell you if he screamed at me about his needing to see prostitutes on my honeymoon I would have thrown his backside down my drive way.

[Seraphim]

But you can do this to yourself?????

[Hanz33]

I guess I am saying I can. I would be much unhappier to see my family disappointed me.

[Seraphim]

Wow, you are going to have a very hard life. You can not live a hell of a marriage so your family won't be disappointed.

[Snny]

The reason I won't stop this is mainly:

 

I don't want to disappoint everyone.

It is YOUR marriage and it is up to YOU to tolerate it or walk before it destroys you as a person. Any person who loves their own child/sibling would want what is best for them. Several STRANGERS are telling you, based on your observations and past experience, to not marry this man. That should ring a LOT of loud bells.

 

I don't want to split up with him but I do want to hold off the wedding till everything is sorted.

How long do you plan to wait for a man to get his act together and change? What if he never does (which most likely will happen)

 

I feel physically sick feeling forced into marrying the guy.

You're not being forced. No one has put a gun to your head and told you have to marry him or else. You're not in some prearrangement deal either. Get with the times; You live in the 21st century where women aren't a person's property and are treated and respected as individual people.

 

I expressed 'some' concern with my mother and she said don't worry about it, it will work out. I vaguely mentioned it to my sister said it was a bit too late to be having second thoughts. My father absolutely loves this guy and would scorn me for life.

You didn't tell your family the whole story apparently. So what is there to be ashamed about that you have to hide all the details?

 

And BS about it being too late to be having second thoughts or contemplating on breaking an engagement. You are FREE to walk out from an engagement anytime you want. You are not bounded to this man and if people can't understand why, it's THEIR problem. Your marriage becomes YOUR life... not theirs.

 

My partner wouldn't be able to coup with me rejecting him like that and would leave.

Yea... he will leave. He doesn't respect you and has issues. There is no loss in cutting him out of your life if he is manipulative, immature, and disrespectful.

 

How am I suppose to make such an important life long decision in such a short space of time?

You still got time. It's not like you HAVE to marry this guy tomorrow.

 

In all seriousness I know I should cancel this wedding

And yet you want to VOW to be his wife? You don't sound committed to be with this guy at all (which no one can blame you). You aren't ready to marry this guy if you cannot keep a commitment to your marriage with him.

 

- I kinda had a panic attack the other becasue I couldn't work out how I could get out of this in a positive way. Either way is going to end up in heartbreak.

Yea, it's going to suck. Every break up isn't a pleasant experience; It's a fact of life. It took me over a year to get over a broken engagement, but I got over it and was very fortunate to not marry to a controlling partner. If I married him he would be all up in my business, verbally abuse me, force me to dump all my friends, accuse me of stuff, and always have the mentality that he was always right (like your future husband).

 

In 2 days I am going on my Hens 'fortnight' which my mum and sister organised. They have spent thousands on this as well. Not to mention everybody who comes from all over the world are coming to the wedding and have already booked their flights and can't get refunds.

Here's the deal... you tell your closest family members why you're not going through with the wedding. You let them break the news to those people. That's what I ended up doing and people were totally supportive of my decision. It is better to cancel a wedding than end up divorcing him AND breaking that awkward news to people. This is the wrong reason to marry your partner and you got a lot to think about.