My boyfriend's nonexistant career is affecting my feelings for him

[Seraphim]

Not everyone is born to be super competitive though and you can not make them so. People are going to be who they are whether we like it or not and so they should. People should just be yoked to the people they want instead of trying to convert someone into the way they want them. It never works and it creates intense bitterness on both sides. Just because we love someone it does not make the relationship right or workable.

[annie24]

Just because women are now getting paid more and moving up into better careers does not mean there will instantly be more good paying jobs for the men who have been displaced from those careers.

 

I take issue with your word of "displaced." That implies that women are "taking away" jobs that "rightfully belong to men." It doesn't work that way.

[Lonewing]

Ok, so if the dude is "95% done" with his degree he'd get a loan and finish if he wanted it bad enough. And he can't use the "I don't want to owe loans after college" excuse. Everybody has student loans and everybody eventually pays them off. One loan for one semester won't kill him. Like I said though, if he wanted it bad enough, he'd finish and then he'd be able to begin a real career and job.

 

Thanks to this BS we now have one of the largest classes of student debt our nation has ever seen and the majority of these students will not see the end of their student loan payments until their children have been concieved, raised and graduated from high school. By and large, this class holds what is at the end of the day little more than wall paper, and these are even what many would have called "good degrees," things like law degrees, science degrees.

 

He already has 15k in loans. If the lenders won't give him one more semester, he's not going to get one more semester. He'd do well, though, to get his FASFA turned in, though, because he does have until February 14th or so to get it filed. But like I said before, just because he gets that last semester down will not mean he'll be any closer to having a job much less the kind of job she desires him to have. And he'll be down 20k instead of 15k. For what, Wall Paper?

 

College is not the Silver Bullet we were all brainwashed into believing it was. It's a commercial good, sold to us by organizations who have by and large become large private for-profit entities, regardless of what they may say.

[Batya33]

I think some of you are being really unfair on the OP. Whether we all like it or not, financial stability is essential for a comfortable life. That’s all OP wants.

 

But she has a definition of comfortable life that is not universal -what she wants isn't unreasonable in the least IMO but it's far more than many people have.

[Lonewing]

I take issue with your word of "displaced." That implies that women are "taking away" jobs that "rightfully belong to men." It doesn't work that way.

 

It's a simple law of 1+1 = 2.

 

There's no "right's" here whatsoever; there is the simple reality that there are only so many Good Paying Jobs, and if you remove the barriers to entry that existed before, that does not mean the Pool becomes larger - it means the number of available positions remains the same while the number of applicants Increases - or inthis cases, practically doubles.

 

Now I can "displace" your domestic workers further by adding in the pressure that has been created by outsourcing, particularly in the fields of manufacturing, customer service, engineering, and in short every position that is outsourced. I can further displace more workers by introducng those local workers who are undocumented, under the table, and thus able to operate in the trade industries on margins far below what your legal honest businesses are able to survive on. Finally, we should mention the current small business tax climate, which impact every business which makes more than $250,000 a year - the tax rates start hiking like you wouldn't believe. In all of these cases, what used to be Good jobs in viable industries have been practicaly decimated into nonesxistance.

 

Here's the reality: there is One Circle, One Whole. That pie remains one Pie. There are no magical Piemakers making more Pie. While you may say the Pie has grown over the years, it has been growing in proportion to the overall population, thus it remains similarly proportional. We only have capacity for X number of Lawyers, Y number of Doctors and Z number of Engineers. This capacity is not measured by how many we can graduate, but rather, by how many we can fund once they graduate. Resources do not magically multiply or else no race, no culture, no nation, no species would ever run into the age old problem of Exceeding the Land's Carrying Capacity. Resources are finite, as are the positions that manage those resources.

 

If you are in a role that is a Primary breadwinner role, a role that was traditionally filled by a man, then you have taken a piece of pie - rightfully so, by the way, I've never disputed this right or should I rather say Privelege, for it was Never a Right - from someone who was a "primary breadwinner." This does not mean that man now magically gets another job higher up on the ladder, nor does it mean he still gets a position on the same spot on the ladder. It means he must fill one of the roles you left open when you moved up into that position.

 

This is a reality women must come to understand and accept - Men who are like women used to be. Men have to a degree already come to understand that woman are now like men used to be, and for myself, I'm quite comfortable with it. But we see time and time again that women are still holding men to these higher ambitions, as if they are blind to the size of their own footprint.

 

It's all One Pie.

[Alpine]

Lonewing, I agree that there are many women who want a partner who earns more than them, who they can 'show off' and say he's a 'winner' or however you put it. But in the OP's case, I don't think it is about wanting a boyfriend who earns lots of money, but I think she just wants to be financially secure. Having an unemployed partner when you are 29 years old IS something to worry about when it comes to thinking of your long-term position in life.

 

In my relationship, I am the primary breadwinner and I am the female. I have absolutely no problem with this and I have absolutely no problem that my SO earns less than me and he is a man. But if he was unemployed, or not-motivated to find a job and contribute to the household, and we were struggling financially - then yes, I would be concerned.

[In the Dark]

I see as at least he is finding a job and isn't overly fussy about where his job is.

This to me is something to hold in high regard rather than to start finding him unappealing.

 

The guy is currently unemployed and the thing he wants is to be employed.

The quickest and highest chance of him finding employment would be in areas where the pay is lower with the current credentials he has.

 

Heck, even people with qualifications up to their eyeballs can't get jobs as they would desire based on unrealistic want of qualifications and other superficial unnecessary wants the employer wishes for which is why these over qualified employees who most likely are much more skilled than their employer are in low paying jobs.

[resilient7]

Why Op are you even thinking of BU with the guy if you get along great with him.why not support him and back the guy up.He seems to have every other qualification.I dont think you are shallow but Im sure he wants his situation to be different.

[Thorshammer]

Normally, i would jump on the negative-train (if there is one, i didnt read any post except the OP's), but a lot of reading material points to how some women want motivated ambitious men that seem they can be a strong provider. Desperation in the work-force might rub on some people as desperation. So, i think you are well within your right to judge him as potential, i dont see it as shallow or wrong. Its attraction, its whatever tickles you.

 

Its no different than a man wanting a clean women, even if she never does more than half of the cleaning. All of a sudden, for some men, the nurturing care-taker feminine stereotype they might favor changes, and attraction takes a hit.

 

But, i can tell you this much... from the experience of people I have met, this type of break up is the one that bites you in the butt hard. To hang on to just one flaw might not keep your boat floating when you realize in the future that you only have one thing to persuade you to push him out of your life. So, make sure this flaw is serious enough to you to contemplate ruining what you have. Also, BU's tend to spark revelations in people, so i wouldnt be surprised if he fixes himself up just for the sake of diverting hurt/rejection (like my friend said, women motivate men when they dont have them- her words, not mine). I know its happened to me, and i never forgave the rejection.

[DN]

I agree with this although admittedly a little reluctantly because I am tempted to be frustrated with the bf's lack of motivation and his excuses for his decisions.

Lack of motivation for what? His priorities may be different, that doesn't make them wrong.

 

People should not be made to feel a failure because they don't have or don't want material success. And they should not pressured into changing who they are and what they want to satisfy the wants of someone else. I find that attitude fairly offensive. I am not sure why it is that people are constantly advised on here not to change themselves for someone or not to try and change someone else but an exception is made when it comes to their job and income.

 

It's certainly fair for the OP to want financial stability in which case perhaps this man is not the man for her. However, financial stability means different things to different people. What may be considered stable by one person may seem inadequate by another and luxurious by a third. But you should certainly not pressure someone to provide an income to your perceptions of what is stable.

[annie24]

Lonewing - The boyfriend hasn't been "displaced" by anyone. He had a job, which he quit!! Now he's thinking about getting a grocery store job. No woman, immigrant or whatever has displaced him out of his job. He did that to himself. As of right now, the OP hasn't let us know why BF had a job that he decided to suddenly quit without having another one lined up.

[BlueEagle]

 

I don't know what to do about this situation. I've been with my bofriend for over a year and a half. A month ago we got into a bad argument and on the spur of the moment, he quit his job. I don't consider it a huge loss because it was only a $9/hr job anyways but it's the principle of it.

 

Two things: Why in the world did he quit his job after a bad argument? Did you say something about his job he quit that made him be defiant and quit, knowing that you didn't like the job in the first place? I think to quit like that, especially in this bad economy, was foolish. Secondly, why wouldn't it be a huge loss? He's now unemployed and has no income. Something is better than nothing. How long was he at that job? Stability should be seen as a good thing; he could still work on improving himself, like finding a way to go back to school somehow, while still being gainfully employed. Were/are you supportive of him and encouraging of him to help him better himself? No one wants to feel like a failure, and especially if he's not getting any support from a significant other. It just sounds like, from what I've read, while there are earning power and job/career issues on the surface, that there could be some deeper and potential anger/resentment issues going on.

 

Now he's looking for another job - but the jobs he is looking at are more minimum wage jobs. My boyfriend is 95% done with his bachelor's degree but has to work right now just to earn a living and can't afford to go back to school to finish off his last semester.

 

Given that he has suddenly no job for whatever reason, I think a job, any job would be better than being unemployed and on government assistance. He can still look for other jobs while being employed and figure out what to do about finishing up his schooling.

 

I have a house, a son and a career. My boyfriend is a loving, amazing person and I have the best time with him. I get along with him better than anyone else I have ever dated. But unfortunately right now I make about triple what he does and it's turning into a huge turn off to me, especially when he tells me he might try to use his connections to get a job at our local grocery store. I mean, he's 29, not 15. I feel like he simply doesn't have the time nor the luxury to hold off starting a real career while he continues to pursue jobs that barely pay minimum wage.

 

I really hope you didn't say this (bolded) to him. Surely there are better and healthier ways to get the point accross?

 

I want a future - I want to get married one day and to be able to travel and take vacations and just live a relatively decent life without struggling. His employment situation is making me think that despite the fact that we get along so well, and despite the fact that my son loves and adores him, I may be ending the relationship. I don't know if I will regret it though .. but right now my feelings for him are definitely cooling off.

 

A few nights ago I was really upset and depressed and told him that I never want to get married and told him never to ask me.

 

Ouch. And you think this might somehow motivate him to better himself how?

 

He responded by saying that he has personal things to take care of, and that he never went into this relationship "just to get married." The truth is, though, that I just don't see myself making that commitment to HIM with things the way they are. In truth I really do want what most people want, which is marriage and a solid future.

 

I feel terrible but I am not sure that at my age, I really want to "waste" another year ...

 

Either work on communicating while being supportive about your concerns, which I don't think are entirely unreasonable at all but how they are coming accross here seems a tad inflammatory, or if you believe the situation irreparable and you have no more desire for him, then leave him. I'd recommend the former before doing something drastic, but it sounds like you are not only unhappy being with him but don't even want a future with him based on your comment telling him not to ever ask you to marry him. Sorry, I just don't see how something so draconian as that can really inspire him to want to try harder to win you over.

[Lonewing]

Lonewing - The boyfriend hasn't been "displaced" by anyone. He had a job, which he quit!! Now he's thinking about getting a grocery store job. No woman, immigrant or whatever has displaced him out of his job. He did that to himself. As of right now, the OP hasn't let us know why BF had a job that he decided to suddenly quit without having another one lined up.

 

The job he had, as the op so well stated, was not that much better than the one he's seeking now. I bet he quit because of something she said in that argument about his job, what ever it was. Either way, the point is he's not charged towards more ambitious roles - and why should he be? But this is besides the point...she wants him to have a "real career."

 

All the while missing the reality that is just how many people work in these sorts of jobs, people far older than 29, and do it day in day out because THAT is now their career!!

 

If he retired from the grocery store at 68, well, that wouldn't be so bad, would it????

 

Do we ignore all the primary breadwinners, much less secondary winners who raised whole families Working in similar jobs?

 

Eh...

[annie24]

The job he had, as the op so well stated, was not that much better than the one he's seeking now. I bet he quit because of something she said in that argument about his job, what ever it was. Either way, the point is he's not charged towards more ambitious roles - and why should he be? But this is besides the point...

 

You're the one who brought up women taking away "mens' jobs." This guy quit his job (because of something his gf said??? how is that her fault?) and he's 95% done with college, but that last 5% is what gives you the important piece of paper and confers the official degree. Everything he has achieved or not achieved in his life is on him, and squarely on him.

[Blue Spiral]

This thread terrifies me. I'm just being honest, here. Yikes.

[LostOne01]

Exactly. I think those assuming this guy is lazy aren't taking into consideration the financial consequences if he chooses to go for that last semester. Going to college is really expensive, and just because he's looking for a minimum wage job doesn't mean he isn't motivated. Obviously if he had the chance to take the semester he would by now, considering he's almost finished.

 

If I were OP's boyfriend I'd consider breaking up with her. If I was in his position I couldn't be with someone who's giving me more unnecessary stress than what I'm dealing with. Many jobs are being outsourced so it is hard to even find minimum wage employment. The guy is focused and as OP stated he's an all-around good guy. Just because he's not making big bucks doesn't mean he's weak or beta, and to me that's what some women who date need to realize. She has her life established and she seems she wants a guy with money to spend on her (even though she has her own). Nothing wrong with that but I think a line should be drawn between having personal romantic preferences, and just being discouraging to your partner.

 

Take care.

[Lonewing]

You're the one who brought up women taking away "mens' jobs." This guy quit his job (because of something his gf said??? how is that her fault?) and he's 95% done with college, but that last 5% is what gives you the important piece of paper and confers the official degree. Everything he has achieved or not achieved in his life is on him, and squarely on him.

 

A man does not up and quit his job like that, so my money is on her having said something that deeply angered him enough to go ahead and quit his job. And now that he's discovered the jobless reality, and he's trying to get a new job - which to her distaste is another menial job, nevermind that it is in his case a realistically obtainable job. Meanwhile, she is in the power role.

 

You have completely missed the point about women in men's jobs. The point is, if women want to make more, they have to accept men who make less than them as part of life. The men's pie did not magically get bigger when women gained access to it - that is the whole point. And yet it seems women assume that every man in that pie still has as much opportunity before women were in that pie as they do now - hence, every man in this world should still be out striving to make more than everybody else in that pie does. This is a failure of simple algebra, of logic, of simple weights and measures: there's not enough pie in that plate to give everybody what they want.

 

And some people accepted this reality, and rather than fighting the rat race, they simply divert themselves to those jobs which must still be done, but are now vacant because not many people want to do them. So where before there was a man's pie and a woman's pie, there is now an ambitious pie and a not so ambitious pie. Seems like a no brainer to me...this man is not one of the ambitious pie people. But the world needs more people like him, because for every role his type fills, he creates room for someone else in an ambitious role - people like his GF, who has a nice income.

 

But here is where the inequality becomes a problem: Women desire to 1) have a job that pays more than a man, and 2) desire a man who makes more than themselves. Whereas in this equation, money is a measure of ambition, because lets be honest, if he spent all day ambitiously working with an organization that never turned a single dollar, she'd still not be happy. Do you not see the issue yet?

 

Women must accept the idea that their mate makes less than they do, in jobs which very well ARE menial, if we are to maintain any sort of balance between available men and available women. Because yes, obviously we all want the perfect mate, but when our ideal matches the ideal everybody else wants, and that ideal is perhaps 1 in 10, well, you're now competing with the rat race for a partner like you want him to compete with the rat race for a job. You may cry about the glass ceiling, but men have a glass floor, and if we go through it, we're pretty well disavowed from life altogether. This is a no-win situation...

 

Now as for that degree...

 

That last 5% gives you a piece of paper, but that paper is worth so little right now I'd need South American fiat currency to equate what it is worth. With so many not even working in the fields their degrees are in, and further working in fields where their degrees neither helped gain their positions nor do anything now to further their potential, it's a wonder degrees are still so widely exhaulted. I have two pieces of paper, which amount to ten years of my life used in a very poor manner, all due to a strategy that was sold to me back in junior high 16 years ago. You can continue selling this strategy, but it is not a silver bullet!! As long as there are not jobs where there are degrees, they are a Complete and Utter waste of time!

 

The only reason I can see that he should complete his degree is so she feels better about him. I'm not sure if that's worth spending the 5-10k or so that it'd take to do it, though.

[LostOne01]

You're the one who brought up women taking away "mens' jobs." This guy quit his job (because of something his gf said??? how is that her fault?)

 

Technically not her fault, but lets be realistic-he's human. I'm sure everyone who's ever been in a relationship has done something logically stupid when they were emotional.

 

and he's 95% done with college, but that last 5% is what gives you the important piece of paper and confers the official degree. Everything he has achieved or not achieved in his life is on him, and squarely on him.

 

In this economy, that official degree almost means nothing when most of the jobs are scarce.

[Lonewing]

In this economy, that official degree almost means nothing when most of the jobs are scarce.

 

It is not jobs themselves that are scarce; it is GOOD jobs and EASY jobs that are scarce. Otherwise, there are many jobs out there, but they are hard, menial, and don't pay very well. Just as there are many single people out there on dating websites. But the vast majority are bent upon getting that 1 out of 10 job, and hence, remain out of work...or that 1 out of 10 guy/girl, and hence, remain single...

[LostOne01]

It is not jobs themselves that are scarce; it is GOOD jobs and EASY jobs that are scarce.

 

I know, that's what I meant. Sorry.

[Alpine]

I think everybody is making a lot of assumptions here and the OP needs to clarify. We do not know why he up and quit his job - everybody is making assumptions about this. People are also assuming that the boyfriend is either focused on finding a new job OR completely unmotivated. The OP has not stated whether he is focused and motivated in searching for a new job, or whether he is just being lazy and unmotivated. Without knowing these facts it's difficult to say what is really going on.

[LostOne01]

I think everybody is making a lot of assumptions here and the OP needs to clarify. We do not know why he up and quit his job - everybody is making assumptions about this. People are also assuming that the boyfriend is either focused on finding a new job OR completely unmotivated. The OP has not stated whether he is focused and motivated in searching for a new job, or whether he is just being lazy and unmotivated. Without knowing these facts it's difficult to say what is really going on.

 

She gave us the information and we've made our opinions based on what she provided us, so we're going to assume. I don't think we'll ever see their relationship 24/7 in the works so we have to work with what is being told here.

[annie24]

You have completely missed the point about women in men's jobs.

 

Lonewing, you have no idea how misogynistic you sound. Men's jobs. Wow. I'm sorry that women aren't all teachers and nurses and secretaries like you'd like us to be, so we can let men take all the real jobs and make all the money. yay.

 

I don't know what the OP wants from a relationship and her boyfriend/life partner. I can say that you need to stop painting "women" with such a broad brush. Not every woman is looking for a sugar daddy or a man who makes more than her or whatever. Everyone is different.

 

No, it is not her fault that he quit his job. It was something he did, on his own. I don't even know what the circumstances were, who said what - but - seriously - it's his personal responsibility, he is the one who made these decisions.

 

Is that extra 5% worth finishing? Well, in this economy, you might be competing against 100 other people applying for that same job who have that piece of paper. So yeah, it can certainly help get you past certain stages in the job application. Doesn't really matter if you're applying to work at a grocery store though.

[Alpine]

You have completely missed the point about women in men's jobs.

 

I know this is somewhat deviating from the original topic, but men's jobs? Are you serious? Or is this sarcasm/ a joke? I honestly though society had moved on from certain stereotypes such as men's jobs and women's jobs. Just...wow.

[sademotions]

Whatever happened to unconditional love? OP, do you realize how hard it is to find someone that can get along so well as you have mentioned? Lets reverse the role just for the conversation sake. I bet response would have been different had it been a guy posting about his gf earning $9/hr. Since you are earning a descent earning, why not help him out? I personally would have hated my partner if he had issues with our relationship because I was struggling with my finances and was contemplating to leave me worrying about secure life. Relationship is about supporting each other and being there for each other in bad and good times, period.