I don't understand the whole having kids thing

[Unknown1607307972]

People don't usually spend too many years in a retirement home anyway. Most never go at all. My father is so busy with his friends, he has no time for me or my siblings. It's funny, the older people get, the more independent they seem to be. At least the mentally healthy ones.

 

My great grandmother never went into a retirement home and she died aged 102, still totally mentally aware at that age too.

 

Also having kids doesn't mean one will not end up in a home without many visitors, even if your kids love you they may end up moving far away (just for one example)-

[Batya33]

I'll leave you with this paper. It's about as good as it gets as an overview to this issue. It hits most every point we've brought up.

 

link removed

 

 

 

I think we can agree that we have seen this occur even here - there are the childfree here who are venehemently entrenched in their belief, and there are the pro-natal here who are as deeply entrenched in their belief.

 

In short, you are no more right than I am, and I am no more wrong than you are. That may be hard to swallow for either of us, but that is what it is.

 

I think you can want children without being pro-natal. You can desire to adopt, to be a stepmom to your SO's kids ,or to work with children in some capacity. And I think you mean "childfree by choice" not just "childfree".

[Batya33]

That is the biggest one that does bother me though. When someone says that I should have a kid because who is going to take care of me when I'm older. I think well gee I didn't think that was a purpose of having a kid. I have my life planned out for the best and for the worst. Things do change and nothing goes as planned but I have a pretty grand idea of what I want and where I want to be. I'll be fine and I suppose it is hard to explain to someone who loves kids and couldn't see their lives without them.

 

Contrary to what you might think people who love kids and can't see their lives without him are actually able to relate to someone else's decision not to -with exceptions of course.

[Miss Firecracker]

My great grandmother never went into a retirement home and she died aged 102, still totally mentally aware at that age too.

 

Also having kids doesn't mean one will not end up in a home without many visitors, even if your kids love you they may end up moving far away (just for one example)-

 

If my father ends up in one, we will be far apart. And my husband's parents are much farther, so we won't see them in a home either...unless they want to come to one in Nashville.

[Lonewing]

I think you can want children without being pro-natal. You can desire to adopt, to be a stepmom to your SO's kids ,or to work with children in some capacity. And I think you mean "childfree by choice" not just "childfree".

 

It's a very good paper on the subject. At one point the discussion covers this point, and further considers the difference between childless and childfree. There is further a diagram following a study from Italy that very neatly breaks all types into their various avenues, Figure 3. All in all, it's well worth the time.

[PhilliesFan001]

Sorry if I'm missing the point here, but who cares what a bunch of studies or papers say? The amount of people who don't want to have kids and end up regretting it or vice versa has absolutely no bearing on any of the individuals in this thread or their decisions.

[Marah]

People make all sorts of different life choices, and said choices are motivated by all sorts of different things..it hardly matters why people choose to or don't choose to have kids. Abuse, lawbreaking, and mental illness aside, it doesn't matter at all. Evo psych chatter doesn't change anyone's mind about anything. It causes one to have blinders about social changes and the here and now. It just proves there are people on earth who think they're a lot smarter than they actually are.

[Miss Firecracker]

It's a very good paper on the subject. At one point the discussion covers this point, and further considers the difference between childless and childfree. There is further a diagram following a study from Italy that very neatly breaks all types into their various avenues, Figure 3. All in all, it's well worth the time.

 

It may be worth your time. Some people don't have to read diagrams to decide whether they want to have babies. They just KNOW.

[Unknown1607307972]

I actually read it, unless I am mistaken and have missed something there is nothing that really gives any negative impression on the childfree choice other than the childfree facing the judgement of other people.

 

Oh and that on some internet groups people can get very extreme when putting their views out there. I think said people are just venting their frustrations, we all live in a world where people don't take our opinions seriously (especially if you're a woman it seems) when we say we don't want children. Where we're subjected to rude parents and unruley kids (note: I am not claiming all parents are like this in any way and there are plenty of good kids around as well) and pretty much told to deal with it. While I feel some people get a little too carried away with the stuff they say on these groups, I think being defensive is pretty understandable when we have to deal with so many people telling us they know better than we do about what is best for us.

 

The diagram simply breaks down the groups of childfree into categories of how many are married, single, voluntarily childless, involuntarily childless, and how many intend on staying childfree permanently by percentage.

[JU27]

I can understand someone having an abortion/adoption if they are struggling financially, etc and will not be able to take care of a child. But, what about someone who is very wealthy and well educated, and who has the capacity to provide for a child but knows that they don't want to have children? Is it okay for a person who can provide for a child to have an abortion/adoption? I haven't formed a strong opinion either way, but am interested in others opinions. I know that I'm not so worse off that I could never provide for a child...I am well educated and have knowledge about child development and lots of experience working with children. But I've decided that I don't want to have children. Any thoughts?

[Fudgie]

JU27,

 

I think it's okay to have an abortion even if you have money. If it's an issue of not WANTING a kid, even if you CAN have one, what's the problem? Just have it. If it's early, it's really quick, easy, cheap, and no pain.

 

The way I see it, we have too many people already. Let's not force unwanted children upon those who don't want them. We have too many unwanted ones already.

[eternalsunrise]

I've only read your first post (none of the replies). I see where you're coming from and my perspective is similar. I think that people should set themselves up financially before even thinking of having kids. And if that means they never have kids (because they're very poor) then ok, they should not ever have kids. Hardships on children affect them physically, mentally, emotionally, and cognitively.

 

I think some issues are that people in no position to have kids don't take precautions to NOT get pregnant. Or they think that love conquers all, meanwhile taking in federal assistance money.

 

People really need to use protection, plan for financial success, and have a child with the right person, planned properly.

[Miss Firecracker]

And if that means they never have kids (because they're very poor) then ok, they should not ever have kids. Hardships on children affect them physically, mentally, emotionally, and cognitively.

 

Hopefully you don't want to enforce this. I know a lot of kids who grew up poor and turned into very strong, successful adults...some poor, some rich, but all capable of enjoying life. I think they deserved to be born as much as little rich babies. Funny, people think it's ok to weed out all but the middle to upper levels. This thread is awfully scary.

[scared and alone]

while I do want kinds some day, I completely get NOT wanting them. In fact, what I find odd is people thinking EVERYONE should want kids. Some people just don't... And SHOULDN'T. I actually respect those that ADMIT that they don't ever want kids. I don't know why having kids is such the norm. And with so many abused, abandoned and murdered children, it is clear that no, not EVERYONE should have kids... I'd rather someone who didn't want kids to NOT have them, than someone who doesn't want kids to have them and then something happens to the child because of it...

[petite]

I am pro-choice - if you want to have children ten do so and if you don't then do not have them. I know people that do not want children and that's their right, and they are happy with their decisions but I also know those that couldn't have children and do dearly wish they could have their own biological child. I love children, I want to experience pregnancy and parenthood and everything that comes along with having a child - the good, bad and unexpected.

[Batya33]

Don't we all know very unhappy people who grew up in rich families and very happy people who grew up in poor families? I have two friends who were each homeless for several years - one as a teenage mom, the other as a daughter of a teenage mom. One is now a young adult in college and the other has grown children and is about to get a graduate degree at one of the best schools in the country after an amazing, successful career. I think one is successful in spite of her parents and the other because her mother wanted her to have a better life (I met the mother, too, what an inspiring lady). I think it can also be great to be born into a rich family, or a middle class family, etc but I don't think we can draw those broad generalizations to the extremes I see here.

 

(and of course financial situations are ever changing so the environment in which you have the baby could be drastically different from the one ten years later.

[Princess123]

I've only read your first post (none of the replies). I see where you're coming from and my perspective is similar. I think that people should set themselves up financially before even thinking of having kids. And if that means they never have kids (because they're very poor) then ok, they should not ever have kids. Hardships on children affect them physically, mentally, emotionally, and cognitively.

 

I think some issues are that people in no position to have kids don't take precautions to NOT get pregnant. Or they think that love conquers all, meanwhile taking in federal assistance money.

 

People really need to use protection, plan for financial success, and have a child with the right person, planned properly.

 

I think that there are too many people who don't protect themselves from having kids too early and people like to call them miracles or unplanned and not accidents... same thing to me.

 

The biggest thing that bothers me is someone who is very not financially secured and decides to have kids. Or how people who weren't prepared to have them, have them because they are "unplanned miracles" then get frustrated and take out the negativity and anger at the kid... I've seen young moms yell at kids in stores and you just know she wasn't ready... but she also didn't take the precautions.

 

It's also bad how a single mom is seen as baggage and a single dad is seen as "cute"... or well essentially a single mom is looked more down upon then a single dad...

 

All in all I really just don't want kids. I can't even stand to have a pet because it's too much for me. I know I'd never want kids. You can't "pop" one out and then change your mind that you don't want it. I'm glad I feel this way now and know enough to know I don't ever want them and won't make that mistake because I take precautions.

 

Then there are the poor men who get "trapped". I do feel some women lie about being on birth control or what not and get knocked up to keep a man around only... or his income...

[sara-pezzini]

Then there are the poor men who get "trapped". I do feel some women lie about being on birth control or what not and get knocked up to keep a man around only... or his income...

 

 

i used to have a colleague who suggested i do that to get my BF to marry me...i looked at her and thought she was making a joke but she was very serious, and i tried to explain to her how awful it is to trap a man like that and if you really love him you don't so something like that, but i could not get through to her...really, really weird way of thinking!

i know my BF's parents never wanted him and they keep blaming him till this day that he excists and how he ruined their lives by being born, needless to say he ran from home and even from his country at a young age, but it still affects him to this day......and that is terrible...

so there really are people who have kids by accident and do regret it their whole lives and don't magically develop feelings for the child, and i have seen first hand the effect it has on the grown child.

i would not wish that on an accidental child of mine......better to just know that you don't want kids and admit that and try to avoid any accidents....

[JU27]

Princess 123,

I think you made a good point about how we see single moms and dads differently. I think it's really unfair. I think it's best to take all the precautions one can, if they don't want to have children. If they are very careful to take all the precautions and still get pregnant, then I guess abortion or adoption is the only option if they don't want children. I don't want children, but I don't know if I could bring myself to have an abortion. If I became pregnant and had the child I think I would get attached once they were born, and that would make it even harder to give them up for adoption. Also, I always think of abortion and adoption as options for those who really have no way of taking care of a child, like no resources. I don't know if that is true or not....I mean, is it different when it is a person who has enough resources to care for a child?

I agree, It bothers me when people have kids when they're not financially secure. My sister had 2 kids and she is really poor. But, my parents ended up taking care of them and helping a lot...and they have turned out to be good kids....

[sara-pezzini]

even if i had all the resources in the world to provide for a child, bottom line is i don't want one and IMO if you don't want one you will not be good for them, no matter how much money you have, and so if i were to get pregnant and that is unlikely if you use your protection correctly, but it is still possible, i would get an abortion if i found out soon enough, once there would be a heartbeat i couldn't do the abortion, but that is my personal opinion, and in that case adoption would be the road i would go......

i just know for sure i would not be a good and loving mom.....last year i got pregnant by accident and it was a shock but i actually got a miscarriage before i even realized i had been pregnant, it was still very early, and in my case it was fortunate that way cause it saved me from making any decissions....because i do not think lightly of an abortion, so i would have had problems with that, but still, i know 1000% sure i don't want children.....and so then there are only two choices...

but i don't agree that people need to be financially secure, even the poorest of people are good and loving parents and kids don't need the most expensive gadgets or clothes....as long as you are a loving and caring parent that is the most important thing....

though it would be a struggle.....

[greywolf]

I've seen young moms yell at kids before too, but I wouldn't automatically jump to the conclusion that it was an unplanned pregnancy. Parents get frustrated sometimes, and sometimes people are just bad parents. Having a planned pregnancy doesn't automatically make people good parents.

[JU27]

I'm just wondering if it's selfish not to want kids? I don't have a strong opinion about it and respect people's choices to have or not have children. But, it takes sacrifices to be a parent. Is it selfish to not be willing to sacrifice for a child, and so have an abortion instead? (I am pro-choice, so I hope that didn't come out wrong). For example, what if someone has money but wants to keep it for themselves, and doesn't want to spend any money on a child? Also, I've worked in a lot of daycares, so is it hypocritical that I know I don't want to have children and if I got pregnant by accident would have an abortion or adoption? Just wondering what everyone's opinion is...

[Fudgie]

I don't think it's selfish not to have kids. Not all of the money would just be spent on you. Perhaps you want to have more time to volunteer, or travel and see the world, to make yourself a better person for others.

 

I don't really see not having kids as "selfish" because it's not like you're NOT helping others by not having them. You're not "killing" kids by not having them. They just don't come to existence.

 

Anyway, if a "miracle" happened and I got pregnant, I'd get an abortion, absolutely. Better for the baby, better for me, better for the world. Really, I know in my heart that I'd be doing everyone a favor.

 

If it were REALLY early stages so that the egg would be like seed-size, I would probably just induce it myself using a combination of medicines that I know (from medical advice with a doctor) would work. I wouldn't even go to a clinic. I used to induce periods in myself using the same methods years ago before I became infertile, and I would do it again in a heartbeat. No regrets.

[JU27]

Thanks for your response. I wonder if part of post pardum depression that many women experience is because they didn't realize the responsibility of having a baby and feel overwhelmed, etc ? I know that's how I would feel. I know part of the reason is because of the chemical changes that the body goes through, etc though.

Also, it bothers me that some people are against abortion when it may be better than having an unwanted child, etc.

[Fudgie]

Thanks for your response. I wonder if part of post pardum depression that many women experience is because they didn't realize the responsibility of having a baby and feel overwhelmed, etc ? I know that's how I would feel. I know part of the reason is because of the chemical changes that the body goes through, etc though.

Also, it bothers me that some people are against abortion when it may be better than having an unwanted child, etc.

 

I think postpartum depression occurs for several reasons. Sometimes it's simply hormonal. Other times, it's a deep regret that is filled with guilt. In either case, I feel that's very serious and should never be dismissed.

 

In our society, life, unwanted or not, seems to always be preferred over not existing at all. I obviously think differently. I will continue to support a woman's right to choose and if abortion became illegal, I would still support illegal efforts to get safe doctor-led abortions for women under the table. That's how strongly I feel about this subject. I definitely know if I became pregnant, nobody would be able to stop me from getting a medication-induced abortion and then flushing the toilet. I would keep it a secret if I had to.

 

Abortions happen all the time, legal or not. Making it illegal doesn't produce more babies, it makes women seek out other methods. And frankly, I don't blame them.