Lonewing Posted October 29, 2011 Share Posted October 29, 2011 This is a difficult decision, but is abortion/adoption the best option if someone knows they don't want children? Even if they may be financially ok, but they know that they won't truly want the child? Would it be better than to have a child and resent them? Also, is pregnancy still likely if one always has protected sex? All protected sex has an error rate. Even vasectomies/tubectomies have an error rate - I have met a husband/wife who have a fifth child who came to be because his vasectomy, though complete, failed. Genetically, the child is indeed his - they had the paternity test done! Only full removal - hysterectomies/oophorectomies and castration [which only removes the testicles, contrary to public belief] have the desired full fool-proof error rate of 100%, no pregnancy. Once you go this route, though, there's no going back. Unfortunately, once the sex hormones are removed, the body operates at a lower physical level. A large component of many muscle building supplements [like shakes] is indeed bull semen. Shocked? Plan accordingly... Link to comment
Unknown1607307972 Posted October 29, 2011 Share Posted October 29, 2011 The only litmus test necessary is "Are you having sex?" Yes? Then be prepared for what might happen. I have put a lot of thought into what I'd do if my birth control failed. I would have an abortion. I don't want to have an abortion because it's not a great experience but I would if I found myself in that situation, so I'll just make sure I use my birth control correctly and hope I don't have to experience it. So really it has nothing to do with whether I will become a parent or not. It's all about choices, but in the end, the litmus is quite simply put, If you're having sex, you will probably end up pregrnant. If you keep it, it's yours to raise; otherwise, it's yours to dispose of. Yes, I'll use that word here, because that is often what occurs through abortion/adoption: one does not desire to bear the repsonsibility [for Whatever reason, it doesn't matter either way], for whatever reason, and disposes of it. so in the end, if you're having sex, then it's best to be prepared to make some even more difficutl decisions besides "do I want children" or not. For those who can't have children, well, it really is a moot point. Any decision over what to do in the case of pregnancy is taking responsibility. It is looking into the options and deciding what is best for you rather than sticking your head into the sand and putting off your choice. Abortion isn't an easy thing to go through, adoption is very tough and parenting is also very tough if if you're unprepared and/or don't really want to be a parent. You have to make your choice and be strong no matter what that choice is. "do I want children" or "do I want children now" depending on the individual is probably one of the most important questions to ask yourself in this situation. Link to comment
Batya33 Posted October 29, 2011 Share Posted October 29, 2011 It's all about choices, but in the end, the litmus is quite simply put, If you're having sex, you will probably end up pregrnant. If you keep it, it's yours to raise; otherwise, it's yours to dispose of. Yes, I'll use that word here, because that is often what occurs through abortion/adoption: one does not desire to bear the repsonsibility [for Whatever reason, it doesn't matter either way], for whatever reason, and disposes of it. so in the end, if you're having sex, then it's best to be prepared to make some even more difficutl decisions besides "do I want children" or not. For those who can't have children, well, it really is a moot point. Well no not "probably" if you're using birth control (many many years for me and only one pregnancy because it was intentional) but yes it is a risk. Many people who put their children up for adoption do it with an even greater sense of responsibility because they know they cannot provide for the child despite having lots of love to give and make the ultimate sacrifice in giving the baby to people who can. I think it's really offensive to the adoptive parents to write that the child has been "disposed of" when she is being taken care of by adoptive parents. I agree that if a person is not willing to have an abortion or adopt out a child he/she should not have sex unless she's ready to be a parent. And of course it's hard to predict one's feelings before getting pregnant - but there are other options other than raising a child as a consequence of having sex. With one exception that I deeply regret (although no pregnancy resulted -the regret is from going against my values) I never had sex with anyone where we wouldn't have kept the baby and gotten married and been able to provide for the child. Link to comment
Seraphim Posted October 29, 2011 Share Posted October 29, 2011 I agree adoption is a wonderful gift for a child and a set of parents who would otherwise not be parents in most cases. One of my great aunts was adopted because her mother died when she was 3 days old and her father had 8 children when his wife died and he had to go to work and so he had to give his 4 youngest children to others to care for because he could not do it because he had to work to support the 8. His 4 eldest children stayed at home. It was agonizing for my great grandfather to give his children to others but he had to do it for their own welfare. The youngest was given in an open adoption and the other 3 went to be cared for by their mother's mother. Link to comment
Princess123 Posted October 29, 2011 Author Share Posted October 29, 2011 You guys totally didn't get my point. I'm not saying be entirely wealthy to have a kid. I'm saying that there are so many people who can't even afford the basics or struggle to afford the basics. Basic things kids may need and no that doesn't include a champion horse. "Job shadow" a mom. See what her typical week is like with a kid. (For the person wanting to go to the daycare thing) I don't know but it disturbs me seeing little kids with baby dolls and strollers... I actually had someone ask me what I do if I ended up pregnant. I flat out said "I'll have an abortion." Ya the look people give when you have a strong thought. Link to comment
Miss Firecracker Posted October 29, 2011 Share Posted October 29, 2011 I don't know but it disturbs me seeing little kids with baby dolls and strollers... It disturbs me that you said that. Most natural thing on earth, girls with baby dolls. Link to comment
Seraphim Posted October 29, 2011 Share Posted October 29, 2011 What is wrong with kids with baby strollers and dolls? It is how they role play being caring. Link to comment
PhilliesFan001 Posted October 29, 2011 Share Posted October 29, 2011 What's so disturbing about little girls (or boys!) with baby dolls? It's just a toy, it's not a big deal. Link to comment
Seraphim Posted October 29, 2011 Share Posted October 29, 2011 What's so disturbing about little girls (or boys!) with baby dolls? It's just a toy, it's not a big deal. This is true. My son used to play with dolls sometimes when he was about 2 or 3 and he would wrap them in a blanket and give them kisses, telling them they were a nice baby. He was just expressing empathy. Link to comment
Miss Firecracker Posted October 29, 2011 Share Posted October 29, 2011 Ok, this is making me ill. I just found this article. Here is what happens when people have children they don't want. But they will keep on breeding, no matter what. link removed Link to comment
Batya33 Posted October 29, 2011 Share Posted October 29, 2011 You guys totally didn't get my point. I'm not saying be entirely wealthy to have a kid. I'm saying that there are so many people who can't even afford the basics or struggle to afford the basics. Basic things kids may need and no that doesn't include a champion horse. "Job shadow" a mom. See what her typical week is like with a kid. (For the person wanting to go to the daycare thing) I don't know but it disturbs me seeing little kids with baby dolls and strollers... I actually had someone ask me what I do if I ended up pregnant. I flat out said "I'll have an abortion." Ya the look people give when you have a strong thought. I'm not sure you have to answer that question unless the person is a very close friend. I think there are many many ways to parent -job shadowing a mom is one way I guess (there was a show like that where teenagers were given a baby to raise for a week). so I'm not sure how relevant that would be. I wouldn't be willing to have someone "job shadow" me because that would take away from my alone time with my child, and could be distracting or a negative influence on him -he is my top priority. I'd rather the person be a mother's helper so that the person could help the mom (not just "shadow" and passively observe) or work in a daycare. I "job shadowed" one of my best friends for years who had 4 kids a few years apart and did it all on her own (meaning when her husband was at work) - I learned a lot but realized how little I learned until I did it myself. I love seeing little kids pretending to parent -tells me their parents are doing something right! (And it's very cute). Link to comment
JU27 Posted October 29, 2011 Share Posted October 29, 2011 I agree, children are practicing empathy when they play with dolls. I would be more disturbed by young girls being sexualized at such a young age, then I would be with them playing with dolls. My question is, why does society/the media portray sex in such a way when there are so many risks to it? Link to comment
Princess123 Posted October 29, 2011 Author Share Posted October 29, 2011 Okay... almost as its "fun" for the child to play mommy and then will think its fun if she gets knocked up in high school... I don't know I guess I see things oddly. Like an eight year old having a kid or something (I know its a doll)... essentially they are playing that they are a mom right? It's just the fact of them holding a doll and pushing a stroller around and feeding the baby (doll). I guess disturbing isn't the right word. More of weird. I guess this is a worse scenario: I baby sat two girls. NEVER AGAIN. The eight year old asks me to cover her in a blanket on the couch. Then says hey don't look over here... alright... then she says hey can you help me turn the water on the sink? I'm like alright, so she washes her hands. Then she asks if I can put the blanket in the wash for her... Her three year old sister? When she would eat she put the fork vertically in between her legs and make it go up and down. Those were some very disturbing children. Go figure what do you think the eight year old was doing?! Link to comment
Batya33 Posted October 30, 2011 Share Posted October 30, 2011 Pretend play is an essential part of child development. A child who pretends to talk on the phone isn't necessarily going to make a career out of telemarketing, the child who pretends to cook isn't necessarily going to be a chef, etc. Yes they are playing that they are mommy to their baby doll but that has nothing to do with wanting to be a mom in real life -it's classic pretend play. The example you give has to do with potential abuse or potentially having seen some sexual images - that is disturbing. What is weird is that you'd think that was even in the same category (albeit, worse) as pretending to be a mommy. Link to comment
Princess123 Posted October 30, 2011 Author Share Posted October 30, 2011 That isn't an example, I actually was there and it freaked me out enough to never baby sit. First and last time. NO NOT IN THE SAME CATEGORY of course not. I'm saying okay disturbing is a wrong word to use and someone mentioned something sexual is disturbing. So I said okay I see that point because I suppose I find the playing parents thing more of weird/awkward. What is actually disturbing is that story I typed up first and last time I baby sat. So... I was just saying okay I messed up the kids playing pretend I just find that weird personally. But I can see how that isn't disturbing and disturbing wasn't the right word. I only brought up that scenario because of what JU27 made a comment on. Link to comment
greywolf Posted October 30, 2011 Share Posted October 30, 2011 Okay... almost as its "fun" for the child to play mommy and then will think its fun if she gets knocked up in high school... I don't know I guess I see things oddly. Like an eight year old having a kid or something (I know its a doll)... essentially they are playing that they are a mom right? It's just the fact of them holding a doll and pushing a stroller around and feeding the baby (doll). I guess disturbing isn't the right word. More of weird. It is completely normal for children to imitate adults. My sister and I liked to pretend we were adults playing house, going shopping, cooking, etc. Do you find something weird about children pretending that they are going shopping? I guess this is a worse scenario: I baby sat two girls. NEVER AGAIN. The eight year old asks me to cover her in a blanket on the couch. Then says hey don't look over here... alright... then she says hey can you help me turn the water on the sink? I'm like alright, so she washes her hands. Then she asks if I can put the blanket in the wash for her... Her three year old sister? When she would eat she put the fork vertically in between her legs and make it go up and down. Those were some very disturbing children. Go figure what do you think the eight year old was doing?! Maybe she was masturbating. That is normal too. It sounds like sexual things just make you uncomfortable in general. Link to comment
greywolf Posted October 30, 2011 Share Posted October 30, 2011 The example you give has to do with potential abuse or potentially having seen some sexual images - that is disturbing. What is weird is that you'd think that was even in the same category (albeit, worse) as pretending to be a mommy. I agree that it could have to do with abuse, but I don't think we should automatically jump to that conclusion. I started masturbating in 3rd grade and no one ever told me that it was supposed to be done in private. Link to comment
surgeon Posted October 30, 2011 Share Posted October 30, 2011 Why do people do this??? Why have a kid and put yourself in a financial struggle? Why bring a kid into a world where he/she can't be raised having everything possible. Not entirely everything because as most think they wouldn't learn good values. Of course with limits. But I mean someone who has to keep saying no to their kids because money is always tight. Saying "sorry kid you can't go on that vacation with your friends, or to that summer camp with them this year...". Why do people have kids even though it's stressful, aggravating, and they're expensive and ungrateful and it seems like they go right from having their diapers changed to asking you for the car keys and you've got nothing left at the end but bills and more questions including were you this disrespectful and nasty and unappreciative to your own parents? I think its sort of like those who self injure or participate in high risk activities. We're punishing ourselves for some sort of unconscious wrong doing for which we feel guilty. That's just a guess. I started masturbating in 3rd grade and no one ever told me that it was supposed to be done in private. Somebody told me that it was private and I was very thankful for that! And so was everyone else sitting on the bus with me at the time. Link to comment
Seraphim Posted October 30, 2011 Share Posted October 30, 2011 Pretend play is an essential part of child development. A child who pretends to talk on the phone isn't necessarily going to make a career out of telemarketing, the child who pretends to cook isn't necessarily going to be a chef, etc. Yes they are playing that they are mommy to their baby doll but that has nothing to do with wanting to be a mom in real life -it's classic pretend play. The example you give has to do with potential abuse or potentially having seen some sexual images - that is disturbing. What is weird is that you'd think that was even in the same category (albeit, worse) as pretending to be a mommy. I agree pretend play is completely and utterly normal and does not mean you will turn out to be what you play. For instance my son is not going to be a mother. He is also not going to be a race car driver even though he played with cars. He also not likely to be a train engineer or a construction worker, or any other thing he played with either. Play is essential to humans and animals for proper development and that includes mimicking adults. Also too there is nothing abnormal in the least in mimicking the people you love the most, ie your parents and the roles you see presented to you every day. I would think it an odd child for sure who didn't. Link to comment
Batya33 Posted October 30, 2011 Share Posted October 30, 2011 I agree that it could have to do with abuse, but I don't think we should automatically jump to that conclusion. I started masturbating in 3rd grade and no one ever told me that it was supposed to be done in private. I mis-wrote -I meant to write it could have to do with it but who knows. Link to comment
PhilliesFan001 Posted October 30, 2011 Share Posted October 30, 2011 OP, have you not been around children much or taken any child development courses? Nothing you're describing is disturbing or grossly out of the ordinary. Imaginative play, role playing, experimentation & imitation are all healthy developmental milestones of childhood. Even the masturbation thing - very very very young children, even infants, have shown interest in their genitals. And having a baby doll /=/ getting pregnant in high school. I think you'd struggle to find a strong correlation there to be honest. I still don't see a problem or anything "weird" at all. Kids do it all the time, it's very normal. Link to comment
Princess123 Posted October 30, 2011 Author Share Posted October 30, 2011 No playing cooking or what not isn't. It's just the whole idea of a kid acting like they have a kid and playing house is weird to me. Ya I was just shocked to know that kids that young play with themselves... My aunt owns a day care and I have a very large family so I have been around a ton of kids! Trust me when I say that I'm 100% sure I don't want them. Link to comment
JU27 Posted October 30, 2011 Share Posted October 30, 2011 I'm glad I'm not the only one who feels strongly like you do about this. I think it's good for people to be around a lot of kids before they have one of their own. I was ambiguous about having kids before I was around them. I thought babies were just "cute." I had no idea that they are also a lot of work, and I found out I don't want that responsibility, although I don't know what I would do if I became pregnant. As princess123 said, many people have kids even when they struggle to support them. Would abortion or adoption be better? Link to comment
Lonewing Posted October 30, 2011 Share Posted October 30, 2011 I speak as the oldest of eight, from a family that has been below the poverty line since before the day I was born... The most valuable possessions in life cannot be bought, but they can be taught. The most valuable people are not those who have, but those who can do. Even in the moment when it appears you have nothing, there is still opportunity. The fact of the matter is, families have been coming out of nothing in this country I believe in since we sailed here in our little wooden ships. Or in my father's family's case, steel steamers. If we all sat around and worried about how we would have afforded our families, none of us would have ever been born. But each person in my family, throughout time, has looked not at what we have in possessions, but rather are what we have in potential, and we have made the most of that potential and turned it into some of the most invaluable intangible possessions ever known. My brother was taken from us a little under a year ago, and yet his work center is still torn up about it. That is how much Joy he brought into that place - and how much his absence now impacts those who were closest to him. These people were not his family, yet they became his family, because in my job, which is now the same job as his job, we are all family. So while my mom and dad most certainly could not "Afford" to have him or even any one of us, the balance of our debt to society that we incurred growing up is paid back in coffers through what we provide in our adulthood. You're all asking the wrong questions. You're focused on the wrong lifetime. Life itself is a river, a river that never ends because just as someone gave you life, you begret it to the next. And even though you may argue that there are many rivers and we have too much life on this earth already, the reality is that none of those rivers are your river, neither are they the river of your community, and there are a number of rivers around the world that would happily destroy your river and and every river around it and take life for its self. Despite our "Advanced" culture, I am almost becoming shocked at the Simple things we simply "don't get" anymore. Link to comment
Fudgie Posted October 30, 2011 Share Posted October 30, 2011 So Lonewing, are you saying that we all should just shut up, do our "duty", and produce offspring? Link to comment
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