Girls want a nice guy!?

[dramallama]

It is ok for men to ADMIRE women and the unique qualities about a particular person. That's what falling in love is about. But I have a feeling that the OP wants ANY girl to fulfill his NEED to be in a relationship, which means he has put the whole female gender up on a pedestal, which in turn means that women will look down on him because he has essentially just de-valued himself as a man and the strengths that HE has.

[tylercdurden2004]

Egg or chicken I guess.

 

A man who puts a woman on a pedestal does not become a wuss but a wuss/man uncomfortable in his own skin will put a woman on a pedestal.

 

How does putting a woman on a pedestal affect her? It puts her in a postion of having to fulfill unrealistic expectations.

 

It's unfortunate that many of the things that many males are exposed to would indicate that being a wuss is the way to go. Unfortunately it rarely if ever works that way.

Niceguys would do well to be more aware of how their interactions influence others. Rarely do they understand that.

 

I mean who wouldn't want to be put on a pedestal? It's not until you understand the effects of being on a a pedestal that you can understand why it's not a positive thing.

 

 

 

 

That is part of it, sure. But there is more at work here. A man who puts other people on pedestals is a man who doesn't "look comfortable in his own skin," which is what women want in a man. A man who continually does this looks desperate (what dramallama was getting at earlier), and ends up looking weak and like a wuss.

 

However, a man who does NOT put women on pedestals, but instead is nonchalant, relaxed and comfortable in himself, treating each woman as though he has many options and doesn't need her, is far more attractive: because, then, the MAN becomes the prize to the woman, not the other way around.

[agent1607307371]

Girls put me in the "best friend" zone. What else does a girl want!???

 

Obviously not another girlfriend then.

 

I don't date men who behave like my friends, because I think of them like my friends. It would be like dating a family member. Too weird.

 

Plus, when they ask you out you realise that all their acting like a friend was just acting. It's not fun.

[FathomFear]

Well, I'd say that the easy answer is that there's a difference between being friends with someone and wanting to develop a romantic relationship. You can share interests, be there for each other, etc, yet have no sexual spark/tension.

[Firiel]

Well, I'd say that the easy answer is that there's a difference between being friends with someone and wanting to develop a romantic relationship. You can share interests, be there for each other, etc, yet have no sexual spark/tension.

 

Exactly. And along those same lines, if that "spark" was there, you wouldn't be friends. You'd either be dating or she'd have moved on to find someone else with that "spark" if things weren't developing between you two.

 

So why don't your girl friends date you? Because if they wanted to date you, you two most likely wouldn't be friends in the first place. Two people who want to date each other end up dating each other. No attraction or one-sided attraction leads to friendship.

[Wayfara]

Girls, you make NO sense to me. Many women have said they are looking for a nice guy.

 

No emotionally healthy individual would want someone who hits, kicks and spits on them, so most people want someone nice. But wanting an non-abusive partner doesn't create an automatic romantic attraction in every person who isn't abusive.

 

Why are YOU NOT dating YOUR guy FRIEND?

 

The reason I don't date my guy friends is because I have no romantic interest in them, but if romantic interest would be there I would be open to date a guy friend.

 

Or do women ALWAYS think they can FIND someone better?

 

Not wanting to date someone isn't about thinking I can do better, it's about not wanting them in a romantic way, taking away all other options wouldn't create chemistry.

 

Most guys will be willing to at least give the relationship a chance.

 

Girls put me in the "best friend" zone. What else does a girl want!???

 

I don't believe most guys would be willing to give a relationship a chance with someone they have zero interest in that way. If you are heterosexual, would you give a relationship with a guy friend a chance? To me starting a relationship with someone I'm not attracted to physically/emotionally or both would be as unappelling as I imagine starting a relationship with someone of the gender you are not attracted to would be to most people.

 

I think girls want what most people in a partner, attraction and chemistry. There are some basic guidelines to what is attractive but what one specific girl is attracted to is different from each girl.

[Blue Spiral]

Women are attracted to confidence. I don't really understand why, nor do I understand the appeal of the whole "confidence" concept. It seems to be a combination of aggressiveness, success, and ego; basically a repackaged-for-modern-times version of traditional male traits. A lot of my female friends got with "confident" guys, only to be shocked that their aggressive/traditional nature can be bad, as well as good.

 

That's not who I am. I'm well-aware that I'd have to pretend to be that (and pretend to think it's healthy) to have a serious chance at a relationship, so I'm happily single, instead.

 

And, are some self-proclaimed nice guys actually evil? Of course. But niceness is a better indicator that someone is a good person than self-confidence. Any sociopath can be successful and feel great about themselves, it has nothing to do with what kind of person they are.

[Batya33]

I don't like overly aggressive people and I'm not sure that reflects healthy confidence anyway. To me someone who is passive or insecure often doesn't act in a nice way -they act in an approval-seeking way which tends to be self-absorbed. Self-absorbed isn't very nice. I definitely wanted a good person whose character was such that his inclination was to behave in a thoughtful way while still keeping true to his boundaries and standards -i.e. not a doormat.

[Blue Spiral]

-i.e. not a doormat.

 

I have to say, I've never seen anyone say that women should be looking for a doormat. That's one of the most infamous straw man arguments on the internet.

[itsallgrand]

Like you said, people will want to go out with who they want to go out with. It's not strange to me that your female friends don't want to date you. I don't want to date my male friends, either. They are friends.

 

I think you are probably coming on too strong and little bit desperate. Here, I thought of this video, not because it is necessarily how you are but because it can be one aspect (funny in this because pretty much every woman has encountered this once) of nice-guy = no balls and overly solicitous.

 

 

 

I'm generally not attracted to overly aggressive men either, and love sensitivity in a guy. But I have always hated the word "nice" because it has too many associations that fail to be on target with what matters to me. Nice means doing what people expect you to, and we all know how that is an impossible game. Or if you don't know that, know it now! You can't please people and meet their expectations all the time, and you shouldn't try. You should be you and let the rest work out from there. That also puts the responsibility firmly on YOU to make the changes if things don't go as you want instead of blaming others; i.e. women, for not meeting your expectations.

 

Instead of worrying or trying to be nice, be authentic and confident in that. That is the root of it. Otherwise you will end up attracting women looking for doormats anyways.

 

I do think it is awesome you took the reign on your health and have been working out. Had to say that. Congrats, and you are looking good in your pic!

[TakingtheBlame]

Girls, you make NO sense to me. Many women have said they are looking for a nice guy.

 

So here is my question!

 

Why are YOU NOT dating YOUR guy FRIEND? Or do women ALWAYS think they can FIND someone better?

 

Most guys will be willing to at least give the relationship a chance.

Girls put me in the "best friend" zone. What else does a girl want!???

 

I find the part I've bolded above interesting. I've known many men who have rejected me right off the bat as not being what they were looking for in a girlfriend. This is not because I am objectively unattractive, or annoying, or unintelligent...I just wasn't the physical type/personality type/background/religion/insert dealbreaker here that each one of them preferred. I learned not to take it personally and moved right along to the next guy. Sure, many of those men were more than willing to sleep with me no-strings-attached, but I hardly consider that being given "a chance." So no, it is by no means the case that most guys would be willing to give the relationship a chance, just 'cuz. And if they were willing to give every girl they met a chance, well to be frank, I'd wonder what was wrong with them.

[Batya33]

I have to say, I've never seen anyone say that women should be looking for a doormat. That's one of the most infamous straw man arguments on the internet.

 

Of course not but unfortunately the word "nice" is often misused to mean "passive" -that is what I meant. And actually I have seen several women praise their relationship because of how the man fell all over himself to please them, with the distinct impression that they enjoyed the puppy dog situation. Not for me but some people like it apparently.

[erase this face]

I find the part I've bolded above interesting. I've known many men who have rejected me right off the bat as not being what they were looking for in a girlfriend. This is not because I am objectively unattractive, or annoying, or unintelligent...I just wasn't the physical type/personality type/background/religion/insert dealbreaker here that each one of them preferred. I learned not to take it personally and moved right along to the next guy. Sure, many of those men were more than willing to sleep with me no-strings-attached, but I hardly consider that being given "a chance." So no, it is by no means the case that most guys would be willing to give the relationship a chance, just 'cuz. And if they were willing to give every girl they met a chance, well to be frank, I'd wonder what was wrong with them.

 

You and me both. It's funny how men are the ones to complain about such things, but women seldom complain about being rejected, at least to the point where it leads to bitterness and resentment. Rolling with the punches is hard, but is sometimes necessary in order to achieve the desired outcome.

[-Sanguine-]

I was once interested in the stereotypical "nice" guy. He would've done anything for me. He looked at me in a way no guy had ever looked at me before, like he was falling in love with me even after only a few days. He told me how beautiful I was multiple times a day. He was a gentleman and generous and we had similar interests. He wasn't a door mat and he was confident in himself as far as I knew. He wasn't very dominant though. He didn't take charge to make plans. He could go places alone, he could hold conversations with people (like you say you do).

 

No matter how hard I tried, though, I wasn't attracted to him in a physical way. His personality was an A+ besides the fact that he didn't take charge at times.. but that couldn't change the fact that I couldn't see him in that light. I don't mean to sound discouraging. All I'm saying is that if someone is not attracted to you in that way, they're just not. It doesn't mean there's anything wrong with you or that you're not a "nice" guy. In fact, I don't think it has anything to do with being nice. It just means that spark isn't there. It's not your fault or hers.

 

I am sure lots of other girls would think the guy I was with was attractive. And I'm sure lots of girl would consider you attractive. You have to stop beating yourself up about this and waiting for you to find a woman. That appears desperate and that is a problem. Having such a negative and bitter attitude about things is a real turn off for women. You should start by improving that. I know it's hard to have a good attitude about things when they aren't turning out the way you want, but I can tell you one thing for certain: things NEVER get better if you have a crappy attitude about them. Change your attitude and I'm sure you'll see a few other positive changes coming your way also.

[testcase]

Everyone has pretty much said everything I'd want to say here. Women are attracted to confidence. Most do want a nice guy but you still have to be aggressive and make your moves while getting them. The friendzone is really something you almost allow yourself, or put yourself, in. If you pick up on the signs you can usually tell if a girl is interested pretty quick. If you're shy and not making your interest known you'll probably put yourself in the friendzone pretty quick. I'd bet the more available you make yourself the quicker you put yourself there.

 

Here's some things I did maybe it can help you out. I dunno. Keep your girlfriends you have now but refrain from making new ones for a while.

 

1) Online Dating - This is the biggest best bet. When you go out with a girl from online it's already a date. You won't get friendzoned unless you really screw it up. Most likely you'll just not get another date if they aren't interested. But say everything goes well you go for the kiss at the end of the night. Bam that works and goes great, now you're dating someone... assuming they wanna go out again.

2) Meeting girls at bars - Well this straight sucks. Your best bet is to honestly drunkenly make out with them that night or to get their number and start texting them shortly after, pushing for a date. If you just get their number after talking a little they might not remember who you are or really care. Maybe here they'll put you in the friendzone depending on how you communicate with them.

3) Meeting a mutual friend or someone through an activity, ie sport or something - This is tricky. Here you want to be an acquaintance, not a friend. Here maybe you have the girls number or her on facebook, but u never really talk to her using that medium. You have to judge her interest when you're hanging out in person. Don't be available all the time. You're available when you're doing your thing. If you see she's interested, because there's no real friendship to ruin, you can go ahead and make your move trying to set up a date.

 

It's really pretty straight forward and all 3 of the things I talked about are successful if you are confident and go for it. Really dating usually happens real quick or it's not going to happen. In #1 and #2 these things have to happen almost off the bat. #1 few emails, set up a date. #2 ur basically going for the date right off the bat. #3 you can set up the date when you want but of course they have to be interested. If you're confident you might fail. If you're not confident u basically will fail.

 

Sorry for the ramble hope this helps. I think because of maybe lack of experience you're waiting to long to try to get someone interested in you. You basically want everything to be for sure before anything happens. "Dating" isn't like that at all. Dating is hoping someone is someway but u don't really know.

[SilverFactory]

Excellent post testcase!

 

Dougie first of all why do you care so much about what women want? If you try to mold yourself into something that women want you are simply rejecting yourself. You can always be a better you regardless of whether that attracts a woman or not. Even if you become a very confident man do not think you will get a girlfriend. You can still get rejected simply because a woman does not find you to be her type. It has happened to me before.

[reboundstudent]

Women are attracted to confidence. I don't really understand why, nor do I understand the appeal of the whole "confidence" concept. It seems to be a combination of aggressiveness, success, and ego; basically a repackaged-for-modern-times version of traditional male traits.

 

Well who in the world is attracted to insecurity? That's the flip-side of confidence. Would YOU really want to go out with a woman who sat there like a piece of furniture, acted ashamed of taking up space? (There's flirty-shy, which guys seem to love, and there's furniture-shy. We're talkin' furniture-shy here.) What guy falls head over in heels for the girl who constantly complains about how ugly she is, how nobody likes her, and how she nobody could EVER want to marry her?

 

I can say with utmost conviction NO guy wants to be with that chick, because I AM that chick, and get told repeatedly (by real life guys even!) that that's why they don't wanna date me. That's right, a GIRL getting friend-zoned!

 

But that's the funny thing about blinders... most of my guy friends who complain that women only want the jerk, or how stupid it is that girls are attracted to "confidence" are themselves only focusing on the super-hot, outgoing, funny, etc. woman, and ignoring the bottled-eyed book worm with the frizzly hair in the corner.

 

As far as the distinction between confidence, nice guy, and Nice Guy, try out this journal entry: link removed says it all.

 

Also, Testcase, very excellent post!

[oldenoughtoknow]

You've gotten some great advice here. I think the common themes are confidence and direction. A lot of "nice" guys mistake being nice for actually being a doormat. They try to take the easy way out by doing too much. Not willing to risk a rejection, they think performing an endless succession of tasks, accepting whims as orders, being overly attentive, will net them the coveted prize. It's like "if I can just show her how nice I am and what a good a guy I am..." Sorry, attraction doesn't work that way. Women want the whole package.

 

On the flip side, a lot of guys mistake confidence for aggression and arrogance. Don't make that mistake either. Think about the middle ground. The balance. Step back and think about some of the things you've done in the past. Did you ever take a risk? Were you ever assertive? Did you ever show direction? It's not only okay to do this, it's essential to attract someone and maintain a relationship.

 

You can fool yourself into thinking you're being nice by being supportive and flexible to someone's needs. Having those qualities is good, but that should be your underlying theme - not THE theme. That's the type of nice guy women want. Having a clingy doormat who will do whatever you want whenever you want gets boring really fast - it actually becomes tiring having to make all the decisions all the time. Imagine yourself with someone with those qualities. Yuck. That's not what you would call a partnership.

 

Women search for a partner and a partnership, and you should too. You create a partnership with a woman by being her equal member playing on the same team. Sometimes you both do what she wants, sometimes you both do what you want. Again, balance. You each bring your own strengths and weaknesses. Neither one has to be perfect. True, equal partners. Doormats only become her towel boy - that's all they asked for, so that's all they get.

[lalarose]

Well we want a nice guy for sure! But, we don't want him to be too nice in a sense of like a "girl" friend. Also, it can be that you are waiting for the girl to make the move on you if you are shy.. Well just go for it and flirt with the girl!!

[lalarose]

WOW. exactly what I thought.

[mad rabbits]

All these "nice" men complaining about their lack of opportunity... just a question: if you had the same options available to you as the "players", would you still be "nice" to women??? I don't think so...

[ladyninja30]

Women search for a partner and a partnership, and you should too. You create a partnership with a woman by being her equal member playing on the same team. Sometimes you both do what she wants, sometimes you both do what you want. Again, balance. You each bring your own strengths and weaknesses. Neither one has to be perfect. True, equal partners. Doormats only become her towel boy - that's all they asked for, so that's all they get.

 

this part stood out to me especially, great little bit here.

[guynextdoor]

All these "nice" men complaining about their lack of opportunity... just a question: if you had the same options available to you as the "players", would you still be "nice" to women??? I don't think so...

 

Actually I will disagree with your statement.. Speaking for myself I would like to be treated the same way I treat a woman.

[Dougie_D]

Thanks guys! According to test I took 5 years ago, I'm basically an INTP. I'm kind of bitter and it takes a lot of man power to take advice! I'm really, really, working hard on it.

If confidence is what I need to build on, then how do I go about this? What are certain things to build it up?

[dramallama]

That's a really great attitude Dougie. I was a bit worried that you'd feel hurt, but it's good that you are willing to make improvements because a lot of other people in your position would feel criticised, but we are only trying to help. Remember, though, that your main aim to be confident and happy within your own skin, and getting a girlfriend should become secondary or as an added bonus, if you will. Make your life as fulfilling as possible. NOT to meet a girlfriend (because a guy who constantly looking out for women, ANY woman just to make him happy will be spotted a mile away), but to just help you be happy yourself.