Girls want a nice guy!?

[BlueMilk]

All such wonderful advice, especially the livejournal link, that article was an eye-opener, especially since I have a feeling one of my friends may be a Nice Guy (which is a shame since I do like him, but if it is all fake...yea. Guess time will tell.)

 

Don't mean to hijack the thread but I was just wondering is there a female equivalent to Mr. Nice Guy?

[testcase]

Definitely a female equivalent to Mr. Nice Guy! It's just because guys are mostly attracted to looks they'll overlook the niceness and go out with them because they are attracted to them. I guess the bad thing here would be maybe they would like dating them and being with them but wouldn't want a relationship with them because they aren't exciting enough for the guy.

[testcase]

Oh and Dougie yea man I'm sorry I'm honestly not too sure what to do. The sad, honest, part is success brews confidence. So if you haven't had much success I'm not sure how you go about starting. I'd say hit the gym, I remember you were talking bout that, change up the hair style. I good body and good style will def put a little swag in your step and help you out. Aside from that I dunno. The more success you have the easier it'll get. This is why "players" if you can even call them that... I hate that term... do so well. They go out, have fun and don't really care about the reaction they get from any girls that night cause chances are they're talking to another girl or two. So no success that night no problem. This puts them totally at ease and fine with any situation... and it makes them easier when talking to girls because they aren't banking on it working. It's funny you can really see this in almost all cases. Normally a friend will have a "good" summer because they had a lot of success with women.. but then they won't have had a date for a year or something. That summer where they were dating left and right they were in a zone, and their confidence was sky high because of it.

 

Hit the gym and find a style that really suits you. Def a good place to start.

[oldenoughtoknow]

Hey Dougie, good for you for being open to work on yourself. Most people aren't even willing to accept the fact they could use improvement, and acceptance is always the first step. I'm also an INTP, and I know how being an introverted rational can make you a little uneasy when it comes to emotional endeavors. Testcase gave you some great tips. Here are some of my random thoughts: First, forget about your perceived failure with women. Instead, accept that you primarily need to work on your self esteem. Step out of the clouds and allow yourself to focus on details. In this case, the big picture you seek isn't going to happen overnight, or with one deft move. It comes after a vigilant series series of baby steps. I emphasize this because details aren't an INTP's forte.

 

What would those baby steps include? First, start by learning to control your internal dialogue. Find it and listen to it. There's a pretty girl - what are you thinking? Something like "wow, she's hot. I should talk to her, but she'll just shoot me down. Or worse, maybe we'll get along and start seeing each other but she'll only see me as a friend." See, you're dead before you even start the process. If you do actually talk to her, you'll be begging, and that means you're on the road to the friendzone yet again. Replace those thoughts with the new, positive and confident thoughts you're working on.

 

You may have natural people pleaser tendencies. It often goes hand in hand with low self esteem. From now on, when someone asks you for help, stop and think before you open your mouth. Is this a reasonable request? Would they do something like this for me? Or, is this a bit too extreme. Think of the Seinfeld episode when a baseball player (forget his name) who he just met asks Jerry to help him move. Learn that it's okay to set boundaries. Learn that it's okay to say no. Learn that people will still like you. Learn that by doing this, people will actually have more respect for you. Learn that having a spine is something women find very attractive.

 

One trick to help your introversion is to start randomly saying hello to strangers. Walking down the street, as you pass by someone, just say hello and keep walking. Don't stop and wait for a response, that would put you in a situation of potential rejection. Just smile and say hello and keep walking. You'll be surprised how many people respond. Do that for a few days or weeks, and then focus more on women, and then focus more on women you find attractive. See where I'm going? You're retraining your subconscious that people can, will and do respond positively to you, and even more importantly, attractive women are willing to talk to you - you're proving your internal dialogue is wrong. You'll feel your whole attitude slowly begin to change and your confidence will begin to rise.

 

While you're doing all of this in the background, in the forefront you should focus on you and your life. Have fun. Create a fun life and do fun activities with friends. Forget about finding a woman for a while. When you accept the possibility that you may be alone for the rest of your life, or you may go through a series of short term relationships that don't work out for the rest of your life, it takes a tremendous amount of pressure off your shoulders. So I don't find somebody? So what? Adopt that attitude. You don't NEED anybody to be in your life. You already HAVE a great life. Finding someone to share it with would be icing on the cake. You have to first bake the cake all by yourself.

 

Do you see how these steps can raise your self esteem and thereby your confidence?

 

I don't know enough about your history to know where you've tried to find female prospects. It sounds like you've compiled a series of friendzone acquaintances. Cold approaches are hard, even for extroverts, and the success rate is low. Finding prospects through mutual friends is the best - you already have a pre-screening system in place so you know her status, and she knows this is a date, you're not just "hanging out." Those are two key elements for dating in general and certainly for staying out of the friendzone - you know she's single and she knows your intentions. Don't let her mistake you for a potential friend - stick your neck out and call it a date. When you gain more confidence, you'll feel your attitude towards dates will change. You're not going in, hoping that she'll accept you. You're going in with an attitude that includes options. If she doesn't like me, who cares - I'm here to find out if I like her first. Next! No, that's not arrogance. That shows you're someone worth her time and you're not just another needy guy standing in line begging for her time. That's confidence.

 

Bottom line: You need to show a woman that you're a good guy with a good life, and if things work out, you may like her to be a part of it. That's what sparks attraction and that's what will keep you out of the friendzone. Good luck!

[ladyninja30]

this whole thread is interesting, I guess I had the one ex who didn't want the nice girl nor the attractive one.....

[pl3asehelp]

One thing that's always worked for me has been honesty regarding my intentions. If I'm romantically interested in a girl, I'll tell her that and won't settle for being friends and pining away for her waiting for a chance. I don't know how that would feel from the woman's perspective, but I'm just being honest and I think if I were a woman I'd be really turned off by the faux friends who are to cowardly to go for what they want.

[pl3asehelp]

Sounds like you have introversion confused with shyness. Introverts like to be around people and are not scared of them, they just want this to be their own terms because it's tiring and also need some alone time regularly to re-charge. The scared of people reactions thing is shy. I'm introverted but have no problem meeting new people, saying hello, or going on dates (before i got married).

[erase this face]

I'm kind of bitter and it takes a lot of man power to take advice! I'm really, really, working hard on it.

 

Good.

 

 

If confidence is what I need to build on, then how do I go about this? What are certain things to build it up?

 

You need to be confident for yourself, first and foremost. Self improvement has to be done for individual interest, which can result in being successful among other people.

 

Anyway, not only is confidence important, but you have to dust yourself off and try again when faced with rejection. Your bitterness and anger will only take a toll on you and the ability to move forward. Not everyone will be interested in you, you won't be interested in everyone either. The easier you can say, "We just weren't compatible/the interest wasn't there," and leave it at that without taking it personally, without blaming the other person, the quicker you can move on to another prospect.

 

That is not to suggest that you need to stifle what you actually feel. If you're feeling angry, fine, feel angry. But ask yourself if this anger is compromising your level of comfort, and slowing down progression.

[pl3asehelp]

Actually I will disagree with your statement.. Speaking for myself I would like to be treated the same way I treat a woman.

 

Me too. I think that comment was insulting to the entire male gender. Men don't all want to be mean people who take advantage of others.

[mad rabbits]

Well, I wasn't speaking of the entire male gender. Just a trend amongst certain self declared "nice guys" I have met - who aren't actually nice, just insecure. I've had some bad run ins though.

[galaxy71]

Thanks guys! According to test I took 5 years ago, I'm basically an INTP. I'm kind of bitter and it takes a lot of man power to take advice! I'm really, really, working hard on it.

If confidence is what I need to build on, then how do I go about this? What are certain things to build it up?

 

Here is the link to the thread "the players win again": . It's an interesting thread about how a "player" puts his confidence into practice. The "player" in that thread goes for what he wants. He acts through his intentions. Not caring about what other people think of you and believing in yourself is great. But how to apply it to real-life interactions is another story. It's interesting to see the villian of that thread go after what he wants without looking needy or desperate. The villian took the lead and pushed the boundaries. The woman that he desired followed his lead. Instead of settling for a phone number like the OP of "the players win again" thread, the "player" pushed the envelope by going for sex, and he probably got what he was after. Probably some of the women who slept with that player might not go around having sex regularly with random guys, but they might have made an exception for that "player" because of his persistence. Dougie, it would be interesting to see you practice that agressiveness. I'm not talking about trying to take a woman home with you. But you can practice putting your confidence into action by causing little things like trying to move a woman around the room.

[lostnscared]

Well, I wasn't speaking of the entire male gender. Just a trend amongst certain self declared "nice guys" I have met - who aren't actually nice, just insecure. I've had some bad run ins though.

 

Meh this is how I feel too. I hate to say it, but whenever I've heard a guy declare or announce that he was a "nice guy" but then go on a bitter tirade about women choosing the bad boys, I always run in the opposite direction. I DO think women want nice men. I just think that doesn't include men who "claim" they are nice, but are really bitter or angry with the women race because they got overlooked(which is actually natural--most people do some points in their life).

[johnnyp]

Dougie, I know a bunch of guys that are in the same position as you and none of you seem to realise that you're SO close to being exactly the kind of guy women really want to date, but yet you let your own insecurity and previous lack of success with women hold you back from ever getting there.

 

If you've already got a load of female friends telling you that any woman would be lucky to be with you, what they're basically saying is that you have NEARLY all the traits they want in a man but are missing the one key component....attraction! And it's got nothing to do with looks. Loads of average or even unattractive guys have relationships with beautiful women, as their confidence and charisma compensates. Obviously being hot helps get the ball rolling, but without confidence and charisma, even hot people end up single.

 

What you need to do is ratchet up the sexuality a bit and learn to get the confidence to make a stronger first impression when meeting new women. The guys I know that are how you describe yourself always manage to have a great chat with women they meet, get on really well with them, have loads of laughs and jokes and get a hug and kiss on the cheek at the end of the night, but they never manage to get any further. And it's not because they end up getting put in the friend-zone by the woman...it's because the second they introduce themselves and say hi they have already put themselves in the friend-zone with how they interact with these women (ie. zero sexual tension, no charisma and nothing that sets them apart from all the other boring nice guys they meet).

 

You sound like a great guy, but just lacking confidence and that lack of confidence will always be a mood killer. Do whatever you can to feel immediately better about yourself (work out, new wardrobe etc) and then work hard to building long-term confidence, such as reading self-help books, forums like ENA and practice-flirting as much as possible etc. And most importantly stop saying negative things about yourself and your looks...instead start saying really positive things about yourself and you'll find over time that you'll feel better about yourself.

 

And also don't fall into the common trap of so many men here at ENA of saying "Women like jerks...nice guys like me never get a chance" and believing that adding assertiveness and a bit of cockiness to your nice guy traits means you're a bad person. It's a load of baloney and is just another excuse that many men use to make themselves feel superior to the so-called 'players' when in reality they envy the fact that those guys are getting all the girls. I've spent the past year giving flirting advice to one 'nice' guy I know and he always tells me "I'm not doing/saying that...it's too corny and will make me look like I'm too full of myself". And guess what?....he's continued to be King, Queen and Mayor of the friend-zone. And the one time he did take my advice, he had the woman he liked start chasing him....until he stopped doing what had been working for him and ended up straight back to waiting for her to call (which of course she never did).

 

Once your confidence and belief in your own sexuality and self-worth develops, you'll be able to walk up to a woman you like, make a fantastic first-impression and then walk away leaving her wanting more...and that's when you'll find women will be chasing YOU and not the other way around. Remember, YOU'RE the one that any woman would be lucky to have...you've been told it many times. You've just got to start believing and acting like it dude.

[Dougie_D]

it's because the second they introduce themselves and say hi they have already put themselves in the friend-zone with how they interact with these women (ie. zero sexual tension, no charisma and nothing that sets them apart from all the other boring nice guys they meet).

 

I'm confused about Sexual Tension. Can please give me examples?

 

I may not be charismatic in an attractive way but I do have a sense of charm. People genuinely like me. I'm always "That guy" who everyone can get along with.

 

I can be a smart ass and I'll always have something to say...as long as the conversation is not boring (topics about books, history, etc.) Usually started by HER. I'm all about the drama and gossip. That's what we like anyways, right?

[hexaemeron]

You know, when I was in high school, I was an awkward, shy, incredibly insecure person. I was voted in one year of our class superlatives both "ugliest guy" and "most annoying" -- And at the time, I really let other people tell me who I was. That I was ugly and annoying. As I got older, and out on my own, and a few suicide attempts under my belt, I realized that I was giving up my entire sense of identity to other people, who only wanted to build themselves up at my expense.

 

So, from then on, I just stopped giving a f---. What other people think of me is none of my business. I know I'm an intelligent, attractive, warm, funny, caring, responsible, trustworthy guy. I know it. I believe it. And I make sure I treat myself with the best of intentions and actions. I take yoga 4x a week. I read as much as I can. I strive to always eat healthy meals. I run and stay active.

 

I treat myself with respect because I deserve it. And if other people happen to notice and are attracted to that, all the better. But it's certainly not a driving force. It's a nice bonus. Once you stop caring about what others think and just do your own thing, a lot of things start to change around you and inside you.

 

I hope this helps.

[SilverFactory]

And I make sure I treat myself with the best of intentions and actions. I take yoga 4x a week. I read as much as I can. I strive to always eat healthy meals. I run and stay active.

 

I treat myself with respect because I deserve it. And if other people happen to notice and are attracted to that, all the better. But it's certainly not a driving force. It's a nice bonus. Once you stop caring about what others think and just do your own thing, a lot of things start to change around you and inside you.

 

I hope this helps.

 

Very inspiring.

 

Thanks for such a wonderful post!

[Blue Spiral]

Whoops, I wandered away for a few days and forgot I posted in this thread.

 

Well who in the world is attracted to insecurity? That's the flip-side of confidence.

 

Almost all of the women I've been involved with have been insecure. I'm not attracted to insecurity, I'm attracted to humbleness and honesty. If anyone ever described themselves to me the way that Hex just described himself--talking about how awesome they are--I'd be very wary, to say the least. I understand that illogical insecurity is unhealthy (god knows I struggle with it), but I don't think that confidence is healthy or realistic, either. I'd rather be around people who have grounded views of themselves.

[agent1607307371]

Sorry Blue Spiral but there is no correlation between insecurity and honesty and humbleness. I've been insecure in the past, and still have periods of it, it didn't mean I was anymore honest or humble than when I was feeling confident. I was more likely to fudge what my own thoughts on a matter were, and having low self-worth is did not make me humble.

 

When I feel confident, I treat my self better and I treat other people better. I want other people to share my good feelings.

[Blue Spiral]

Sorry Blue Spiral but there is no correlation between insecurity and honesty and humbleness.

 

I respectfully disagree. You can say it as confidently as you want, it won't change the underlying argument.

 

I think too many people have gotten self-esteem ideas from Road Runner cartoons. If you're not standing on anything, you're going to fall whether you look down or not.

[agent1607307371]

But if you're insecure, you'll never have a base even if you have all the other parts necessary.

 

Overblown confidence tends to just be a disguise for insecurity.

 

Confidence isn't arrogance.

 

Humbleness isn't thinking that you are actually rubbish.

[Blue Spiral]

But if you're insecure, you'll never have a base even if you have all the other parts necessary.

 

I'm saying no one has a base. Some people turn a blind eye to their own weaknesses, some people try to deal with them, and some people get lost in them and don't come back out. How you feel about yourself doesn't take your weaknesses or problems away. But people believe it does, which is why they say "Don't look down"--as long as you don't acknowledge them and choose to focus on something else, you'll be okay!

[johnnyp]

Awesome post Hexaemeron!

 

And to the OP, what I mean by sexual tension is that the sparks are flying between two people through the charisma, charm, humour, flirting etc that's going on between them. That's in contrast to the huge number of guys I see that are only ever nice, polite and friendly with women they like and then wonder why the woman isn't getting knocked off her feet and dying for a date with them. Nice, polite and friendly are all commendable qualities, but they're not the qualities that get women's hearts pounding...however they ARE some of the qualities that can contribute to successful dating and happy relationships later down the road.

 

If you can get the sparks flying with a woman you like, then you can completely avoid the friend-zone altogether, as you'll have set yourself up as a potential partner right from the beginning, and she'll respond by either wanting to date you or she won't. From what I've seen, it's only ever when guys interact with women on a purely platonic level, that they end up getting purely platonic emotions back. If you walk and talk with sexual confidence, rather than insecurity in your own sexuality, then you'll attract just that. That's when you can do as I said above...meet a woman you like, get the sparks flying and then warmly say "It was great to meet you" and walk away and you'll find she'll be the one seeking you out later and asking for your number, not the other way around.

 

If people generally like you and you get on with everyone and can have a great conversation, then you're 99% of the way there and have so many of the talents that loads of date-less guys would love to have. You've just got to become a bit more of a mans-man and exude a bit more sexual confidence and stop being so 'nice'. There's a huge difference between a great guy and a nice guy. Self-confessed 'Nice' guys are polite, accommodating and friendly, but often too available, completely sex-less and a bit bitter at the world. 'Great' guys have all the great qualities of a nice guy, but with added confidence, charisma and sex-appeal. It seems like you've got nearly all of it... you just need get the rest.

 

And also, if you're "all about the drama and the gossip" then that could be hurting you too. I personally hate drama and gossip and associate them as distinctly un-masculine behaviour and so do many women (even the ones that love drama and gossip themselves), so if you're a gossip and a drama-queen, that could easily explain why women don't see you as a sexual being, and instead could maybe be seeing you more as 'one of the girls'. No offence intended...just something to think about.

[agent1607307371]

I'm saying no one has a base. Some people turn a blind eye to their own weaknesses, some people try to deal with them, and some people get lost in them and don't come back out. How you feel about yourself doesn't take your weaknesses or problems away. But people believe it does, which is why they say "Don't look down"--as long as you don't acknowledge them and choose to focus on something else, you'll be okay!

 

How is ignoring your weaknesses confidence? It's foolishness and blindness. No one is talking about having an unrealistic view of yourself, just being able to see that having weaknesses and problems don't mean you are worthless. Having a touch of insecurity is a good thing, it keeps you moving, being insecure makes it impossible for you to move.

[Stay_home]

You can be a nice guy and meet some really good women, but you have to understand that being nice doesn't cover all the basis needed for a relationship to thrive.

[babybrat]

bust out of the friends zone and stop being the such a nice guy. They want the dominant male and the nice guy isnt it. You can be a good person, but retain your balls.

 

I can't stand the dominant male! I don't want to be bossed around but I also don't want to have to be the boss either. What happened to equality?