Kids or no kids?

[Crazyaboutdogs]

I used to be like Crazyaboutdogs -- disliked kids, thought newborns were ugly, didn't coo over babies. I hated baby dolls too when growing up. I was also afraid of childbirth. I thought I'd never have kids. In my early 30s I began to wonder about it, but not too seriously. I think finding the right man had a lot to do with my change of mind -- I wanted to have HIS kids. I worried a lot while I was pregnant ("Will I not like my baby?") but like the post on the first page, I fell in love with my son and generally like children better now.

 

I also didn't like playing with dolls when I was a child. I always played with stuffed animals rather than dolls. As an adult I much prefer dogs over children.

[lostnscared]

Understandable. And you sound like a very nice person. I won't say I'm selfless, or that I have an intense experience with children. But I am very creative and imaginative--I've taught preschool before, and came up with lesson plans and activities, and I'm really good at entertaining children so I've always liked kids in that way--because they help me use my imagination and creativity in ways that adults just aren't able to do for me. To top it off being with children makes me feel young and feel like a "child" LOL. Family is very important to me--more so even than my career, and that is why it would be difficult for me to spend my twenties and thirties building my career up, only to NOT have that family unit that I want and regret it later on. I've always known I would have a big or good sized family, and I always knew I'd start young--if I could help it. I knew that I would not want to wake up a decade from now and desire a family but not be "able" to have one because of career decisions or other decisions I made that delayed the process. Again this is all banking on everything going as planned with my boyfriend and with the pofession I'm transitioning to but I do plan on "starting" to have children in the next 3-4 years(when I'm 26 or 27).

Me and my boyfriend are both biracial, and he is probably a shade or two lighter than I am--but our kids would look similar to us. And that is what I've preferred--I want a child that looks like me and that has my quirks. I want to go through the pregnant process, labor, the whole nine yards. If I had to adopt I have no problem doing so, but I've always wanted one mini-me.

[newwave]

Lostnscared, you mentioned you are biracial and that reminds me of something I just read recently. Said that biracial children are the hardest ones to place with adoptive homes from an early age because neither black nor white families want them (though I've heard white families are even more strict on this). I found this interesting because I know many biracial people (including my niece) and it's sad people are bypassing them because of this. I would be completely open to the idea of adopting a biracial or even an African American child. I think that's why me personally wouldn't be too upset if I can't bear children (or time runs out). Incidentally I had a close childhood friend who was black but raised by a white family. I always thought this was cool that they adopted her and her brother.

[Lonewing]

I've always known I wanted kids; I'm the oldest of 8, so the cycle has pretty much been a part of my life. My ex gf had kids, and it was a good experience that reinforced the notion that children are an important part of my future. Single mothers, on the other hand, are NOT. The emotional investment risk is too highly lopsided.

 

I used to be pretty obcessed about the finances and making sure the conditions were right. My dad pretty well harped into me that I shouldn't start pursuing a relaitonship until I was ready to afford the consequences of what could happen from that relationship [which in turn kind of fumbled my early interest in girls]. Mind you, he was pretty destitute when I was born, and my parents never really had a lot of money their whole life, though my dad has saved up enough over the years to get his property paid off. Back then I was so driven towards college and my career as the foundation for a good future that I compleltley ignored the most fundamental component, developing a good relationship.

 

As I've become older I've come to realize that well off parents aren't necessary to producing well balanced children. Yes, if I was well off, my kids would not want for anything - but then, would I really be doing them a service by raising them in an atmospehre where there is no strife, either for myself or for them? I know that for myself, I appreciate things alot more based upon funciton first, and I'm not driven to always having the best form. I still use a phone over three years old, because it works. My first car is a 63, and it still works. My new car has a heater and a defroster, hence the only reasons I bought it! My closet only has about five daily outfits and another ten dressier outfits, but otherwise, that's it for my clothes. And I don't have any desire in my heart for a whole lot more.

 

So today I'm more comfortable finding that relaitonship and less concerned with the details of how we will afford our life together. Whatever happens, we'll make it work - I have a good job now, but that could change; she could have no job now, but again, that too could change. And when the kids come, well, ready or not, I'll make the most of it the best I can!

[lostnscared]

Lostnscared, you mentioned you are biracial and that reminds me of something I just read recently. Said that biracial children are the hardest ones to place with adoptive homes from an early age because neither black nor white families want them (though I've heard white families are even more strict on this). I found this interesting because I know many biracial people (including my niece) and it's sad people are bypassing them because of this. I would be completely open to the idea of adopting a biracial or even an African American child. I think that's why me personally wouldn't be too upset if I can't bear children (or time runs out). Incidentally I had a close childhood friend who was black but raised by a white family. I always thought this was cool that they adopted her and her brother.

 

I'm sure that you are correct about the difficulty in placing a biracial child in a home. But I had no idea that it was that difficult. I was aware that african americans and biracial children get adopted less than white and asian children.

[lostnscared]

Is that realistic though? Not being rude but just wondering? I think it's idealistic to want children even when you can't afford them and just "scrap some money together" to make it happen but I feel as thought that would be a disservice to the children. You don't have to be well-off to have children. It's nice, but it's not necessary. But I do think it's a disservice to have children when you are destitute are don't have much money to provide them with needed "basics"(safe shelter, food, water, clothes, education, and sometimes even entertainment).

 

I know I probably won't be well off when I have children, but ideally I would at least make enough so that the children wouldn't struggle or "want" for anything important.

[newwave]

I'm sure that you are correct about the difficulty in placing a biracial child in a home. But I had no idea that it was that difficult. I was aware that african americans and biracial children get adopted less than white and asian children.

 

I didn't either until I read it. I know that white babies that are healthy are the easiest to place but didn't know biracial was that hard.

[newwave]

Btw I will not even consider children until my financial situation improves. Here's my timeline:

 

1) Get a fulltime job (working on this but it's hard because of the economy)

2) Pay off my debts, such as car, credit cards, etc.

3) Find guy, date then get married (unless guy I want comes back but who knows)

4) Get in shape and prepare to have baby. Take vitamins and get checked out to see if having a baby is an option.

 

These aren't in any particular order but all things I plan to do to make the dream happen. Of course there is a possibility time might run out or something else happens to prevent this. I'm hoping within 2 years for everything to fall into place. The one thing I'm not obsessed about is buying a house before having a kid. This used to be important to me but not anymore.

[SayWhen]

I am not 100% sure at this point in time if I want a child. I have worked with children for nearly seven years, in many different settings, including in the poorest section of Philadelphia. I always felt that if I had a child, I would adopt because there is significant overpopulation and many homeless children. There are children where I work who live in the back of cars, in abandoned homes and even a few who have lived on the street during their short lives. How can I justify bringing another life into this world? Not to mention how terrible the condition of this world is otherwise. Wars, the economy, hate, ignorance...just the way we treat each other and have treated each other for so long. I have no doubt I could raise a child in a loving, warm and supportive environment and everyone tells me I'd be the best mother...but I just don't know. It is a decision that can never be reversed and it is not one to take lightly. My fiance and I agree that we will revisit the idea of having a child in five years. The problem is not that I wouldn't love the child, I absolutely would, but I do get this feeling of selfishness in having a child, not to mention it is a 24/7 lifetime commitment. I wish it was one that people thought more about before going ahead with it...

[itsallgrand]

I relate to your post a lot.

 

I feel almost like bringing a child into the world is a responsibility that is not only personal, but it is communal and even global at this point.

 

I am not saying that other people have the right to decide for others. But I think, personally, that when considering the decision it should mean thinking about other people besides oneself, one's family, and one's possible child(ren). There is a bigger picture aspect to it that I think deserves considering.

 

I think about it quite often. I see a lot in my work as well of the underside - sometimes darker side - of families and people's decisions about reproducing and parenting. Some people do not even think, it isn't even a decision to have children or not; it's more like - well, if I get pregnant, it happens. Almost like it is something that happens to them; not something they choose or take accountability for. And on the other side, plenty of folks who actively PLAN for large families as though this were pioneer times and there is a need to populate a world.

 

Sorry, don't want to go into a lecture or rant here. But I related to your post a lot and too often think; jeez, I just wish more people would take it more seriously and not be so reflexively resistant to considering it from other points of view. And to not reflexively always want to pull out the "it's my human right to have children and no one has a right to say anything or do anything about it" card.

 

Truth is; whenever there is a birth of a new baby, I find myself mixed in emotion. One: the natural almost instinctive joy and wonderment of a new little being in the world. Two: a bit of sadness that the population count of the world is now sitting at a tipping point and no one seems too worried about it. A little bit angry too, angry that we are leaving this for those little guys.

[Lonewing]

Is that realistic though? Not being rude but just wondering? I think it's idealistic to want children even when you can't afford them and just "scrap some money together" to make it happen but I feel as thought that would be a disservice to the children. You don't have to be well-off to have children. It's nice, but it's not necessary. But I do think it's a disservice to have children when you are destitute are don't have much money to provide them with needed "basics"(safe shelter, food, water, clothes, education, and sometimes even entertainment).

 

I know I probably won't be well off when I have children, but ideally I would at least make enough so that the children wouldn't struggle or "want" for anything important.

 

The thing is, that I am realizing, is just how many of us were born is less than ideal circumstances. My parents had their debts when I was born, they then bought a large piece of property that put them even further in debt. But on the other hand, they applied themselves to their work, and did quite well with what they had. the year my mom left the family business was poised to make 100k in the next year, if eevrything continued well - which it didn't, because the stress got to be too much...

 

All children need are two loving parents. Everything else can be obtained if the parents are willing to work hard enough, and a child seems to be a pretty good motivation for some people. though it also get a pretty good welfare check too, depending on how you play the system.

[petite]

I don't consider 30 older, but here goes. Yes, I have always wanted kids, and nothing has changed, except a bigger desire to have them. However, if I couldn't afford to give them a comfortable life, I probably wouldn't have them. That would just be selfish of me to bring a life into this world and not be able to offer them what my parents offered me and more. I think if we want children, we should be able to offer them more than what they simply need.

[Applewhite]

I relate a lot to this too. I agree with your thoughts and have additional thoughts of similar nature...

[Batya33]

I worked with children in the same circumstances you did probably for over 10 years (7 of those years was as a volunteer, only about once a week). Balancing the selfishness against the desire to have a child was paramount for me and was why I wasn't a singe mother by choice (even though I was in an appropriate financial situation at the time). Just the fact that you are balancing the selfishness is admirable -many people don't. When I did the balancing -having a child with my husband (we tried before getting married but planned to marry -I was getting older!!) - I decided that the selfishness of it was far outweighed by what we could give a child. So far so good.

[lostnscared]

I understand your sentiment. I felt this way when I was back in high school and had vowed not to have children because of it. Now that I'm older, I admit that now that I want children it is very much for selfish reasons. While its hard for me to justify bringing a child in an effed up world, on the other hand its difficult for me to NOT feel the urge and the desire to want and to have a child even knowing what I know. I guess in my mind I have outweighed my own personal desire and feelings against the many reasons as to why I shouldn't have children.

[lostnscared]

The thing is, that I am realizing, is just how many of us were born is less than ideal circumstances. My parents had their debts when I was born, they then bought a large piece of property that put them even further in debt. But on the other hand, they applied themselves to their work, and did quite well with what they had. the year my mom left the family business was poised to make 100k in the next year, if eevrything continued well - which it didn't, because the stress got to be too much...

 

All children need are two loving parents. Everything else can be obtained if the parents are willing to work hard enough, and a child seems to be a pretty good motivation for some people. though it also get a pretty good welfare check too, depending on how you play the system.

 

This is true.

[lostnscared]

Unfortunately there are many decisions that are made lightly in this world, that we often have no control over and those decisions have probably led to many social ills and huge issues within this world as well. Most people don't think outside of themselves when they make decisions. Most people aren't concerned about these events that many feel they have no control over(and don't care to). I think it would be nice, if MORE people did consider everyone else, humanity, and the world, when they made decisions, but as human beings we are not perfect and many of us are in fact selfish. When it comes to children that is even more true--many people have children out of selfishness not because they are trying to "save" or "help" the world.

When I was younger and a bit more idealistic and ruled by fear and teenage hormones I often thought about a lot of things you and others have brought up. I thought about how effed up the world was, and why anyone would ever bring a child in the world with so many evil and negative things existing. I thought about the kids I KNEW within my own extended family molested, abused, treated badly by the system, having babies at 14(yes in my own family) and I thought about the kids I interacted with outside of my family in similar situations. All of it really made me feel so sorry for children, so sorry that they were brought into this world.

I guess as I got older, I volunteered, tried to make a difference in my own way, and separated myself from things that I had no control over. Also realized that most people don't think the way I do, and are selfish, and I guess overtime I became just as selfish.

I don't think most people think about overpopulation, replacement rates or anything of that nature when they make the decision to have a child, because it's such a personal and serious decision for THEIR families that they cannot fathom allowing what's going on around them dictate such a goal. On the other hand most of the parents I've come accross have--in one way or the other-considered how messed up this world was at one point in their lives--prior to having children.

There are plenty of people that make having children a "light" goal (something that just happens) but then there are those who make having children a serious thought-out goal and who prepare for it and who aren't bringing their children in such negative circumstances(by choice).

Just my own thoughts.

[Sparkly Eyes]

I can't believe the ladies here saying they can't stand children. I love them dearly and I think they're awesome. Perhaps you guys don't know how to treat them, because I think they can be a lot of fun, even way more than adults.

 

Anyways, I dunno if I want a child yet and have never been sure about it. For now I think I have a lot of other things I care about and having a child really comes last. If I get to have one in the future that's fine, if not that's fine too.

[Lonewing]

I'm torn by these ideas about a global world. Reality is, we're not a global people, and the rest of the world is not going to do a single thing differnet if you opt to NOT do something. If you don't use something, THEY WILL!

 

Part of living is making decisions that benefit yourself first and foremost. Just the fact that we each individually live is indeed selfish in and of itself, as there's no rule that says we have to stay living. But it is in that absence where we see why what may have been done for selfish reasons ultimately plays a larger impact on life.

 

You may have your child for a selfish reason, but take a moment to think where your child might go and what differnet they might make. Obviously, there are the first great things that one might do, inventions and operations and other situations where one person makes all the difference. But then there is also the reality that your child may be the spouse to that person who does that incredible thing,but without your child in that person's life, that accomplishment never would have been possible. And even if your child turned out to be the evil one, there's still a reality created out of that experience for those who survive the consequences of that person's life.

 

Obviously these are choices that have to be made - but ultimately, I don't see anything selfish about embracing our natural biological destiny.

 

In short, every child begrets a future.

[lostnscared]

These are honestly my feelings about this, and I even stated this(in so many words) in another thread. Even if you, I, and the people on this board started to consider humanity and the global world before making serious decisions, it would not change the fact that MOST people will continue to make decisions in their best interest. It's very idealistic to believe that everyone should make decisions outside of themselves--because as human beings that is very difficult to do. We are selfish creatures. We have an urge and an instinct to procreate, to breed. Not doing so goes against nature in many cases. And making a decision that is NOT in our own best interest or in the interest of our family is also not as much of an instinct or an urge as is to protect our own. While it's great to be compassionate, to want to save the world, to want to make decisions to better the world, that does not mean that one will not be selfish about personal values and goals. I for one, feel for people who are in unfortunate circumstances, and do my best to help, but that's where it ends. It's difficult for me to be ruled be fear, and paranoia, and to make personal decisions based on the circumstances of those around me. Even if I didn't make a certain decision, the world will keep going and there will be millions of people making that one decision that I chose not to make.

And like you said, every child counts, and makes contribution in one way or another. And that is exactly how I look at it. I don't truly care about the notion that we are on the brink of overpopulation, because in my eyes my "one" decision isn't going to make or break what others(millions even) are doing all around me. Not to mention the contributions my kids CAN and WILL make on earth.

[itsallgrand]

This is a really interesting thread to me. Lots of good posts have been made. Lots of different views.

 

To me, I think it's ok if people do think and act differently on the matter. Of course. But we do need some people who think like me, and have a passion for it. Which I do.

 

The main thing is that everyone here that has posted on this thread HAS clearly thought about it, with some real thought to it and consideration for different angles. It's about balance: some balance in the decision and thought.

[newwave]

This is a really interesting thread to me. Lots of good posts have been made. Lots of different views.

 

To me, I think it's ok if people do think and act differently on the matter. Of course. But we do need some people who think like me, and have a passion for it. Which I do.

 

The main thing is that everyone here that has posted on this thread HAS clearly thought about it, with some real thought to it and consideration for different angles. It's about balance: some balance in the decision and thought.

 

I agree. I am really happy that people have thought about this subject very clearly because it's something that needs strong consideration. I also think this is something that people need to bring up while dating because you dn't need conflicts with this early on. When I was strongly anti having kids I told the guys I dated but many thought I'd change their mind. Of course for the most part these guys were of the view that a mother should stay at home, which is why I knew even if I changed my mind I doubted I'd change it that much. This topic was brought up by my last ex (who may or may not come back) and he made it known that he believed we should share in both working and raising the baby and that grandparents could watch the kids during work. I was thrilled because not all guys share this view. Whether we get together or has a kid remains to be seen but I'd be looking for a guy who feels the same way.

[rachinohio]

I had my first daughter at 16, after "pinky promising" with my bff that we wouldn't have kids together, I was obviously scared and shocked and like most teen moms, I was alone. I then swore off ever having anymore! I knew I didn't want anymore children EVER. Then, I met my husband and after 5 years of marriage, birth control failed and 9 months later at the age of 26 the joy of my life came along. I was sad and depressed throughout the entire pregnancy and had hated myself for allowing this mistake to happen. Then along comes my angel. I would not trade her for the world!

 

OP, don't make any decisions so young in life in regards to having kids, just know that you can NEVER have enough time, enough money or enough energy for kids, if you went by the waiting until... then, very few couples would be having babies. Both of mine came at what I (and everyone else close to me) thought was the worst time of my life, but they are MY WORLD. I would not trade them nor the timing for ANYTHING!!!

[OptomisticGirl]

For me I have always wanted kids, even since I was a kid myself. When we played house a kid, I was the 'mom' who stuffed a pillow under her shirt for the pregnant belly (yep, I was a dork back then as well, lol). So for me, it's always been there, that desire to be a mom. I don't know where it comes from really. My mom is a good mom. She has her hangs up and we have had our issues over the years, so I think a small part of it might be the relationship I have with her. Plus there is something about just bringing a life into this world that is solely dependent upon yourself, a part of you that will always have a piece of your heart.

 

My desire to be a mother far out weighs any other desire I have. I would love to be an Egyptologist but there is no way I could do that and be a mom when I want to be (CS and I want to start trying within a year or 2 after me moving over to England). So as much as I would want to dig, my desire to be a mother far out weighs that. And yes, I know I'm young and i know the whole 'you have SO many years ahead of you to have children'.... no one knows that. I have always lived my life by the philosohpy of you don't know what tomoorow is going to bring. For me, I always wanted to be a young mom. I NEVER wanted to start having kids in my early 30's, and I know that comes from my own mom being my age when she had me. I see nothing wrong in an early 20-something having children as long as they can provide for that child.

[Batya33]

I felt just like you and got engaged young so I could start trying at age 23. But I was engaged to the wrong person and ended it shortly after getting engaged. Then I decided to go for my dream career knowing that if I met the right person I would take time out to be a full-time mom if that was feasible financially. What I discovered, partly in hindsight, partly while I went back to school and started this career- doing that so raised my self-esteem, made me feel so much more accomplished and like I was contributing far more to the world, that meeting the right person was made far easier because I was fulfilling a passion of mine -being a mom was a stronger passion, for sure, but I was unwilling to"indulge" that passion outside of a marriage and while you can control to a large extent your schooling/career, falling in love and finding the right person -and being the right person -not so much. Ironically I met my husband because of my career (at work). And I realized that my ex-fiancee was disdainful of and scared of my future career plans(I was going to have/raise a child/children first and then return to grad school at 40, yup had it all planned out. My ex was highly intelligent and on his way to being successful but my ambitions scared him. Now I know that it would never have worked if I had given up my dream of the career to please him.

 

I wish I hadn't waited until my early 40s because of the emotional stress of being pregnant at that age (which is why I wouldn't recommend waiting that long if possible- for me it was not possible since I wanted to wait until I was in a stable relationship) but since I had my miraculous delicious child I know it worked out exactly as it was meant to with the added benefit of 15 years of savings and an awesome career under my belt so that when I return to work I have a better chance of finding a good job.