Just got this e-mail from the husband--what to do?

[Lady Rashomon]

I am more often than not in favour of couples working things out. I advocate for that and have helped people accomplish it.

 

But in this case I don't see a way forward. I don't see a real sense of responsibility for actions other than an admittance of fact rather than fault; I don't see much real empathy for how much he has been hurt, I don't see any willingness to change a viewpoint or keep a commitment, I don't see any real ambition or desire to save a relationship that was probably never 'real' in any meaningful sense from the beginning from your side.

 

Most of all - I don't see or sense any romantic love - not the sort necessary for a successful marriage.

 

A counselor can't make you fall in love with him. That should have happened before you married him.

 

Typically, I refrain from launching into the backstory precisely because I don't want to blame him for what I did. I have a great deal of empathy for what he is going through, and I want to help, but allowing myself to be his punching bag doesn't seem healthy for either of us. In the absence of a strong family network or even friends who have been through similar things, I'm not totally sure what to do from here. (And I won't dredge up the stuff I said regarding my promise about the name change, as I've already explained that, I believe.)

 

I'm also curious as to what you mean by "romantic love," especially since most of the people who have told me to save my marriage have denounced the idea of romantic love as a Hollywood-produced myth.

[sweetpea03]

Sorry for not providing a backstory. Yes, I was unfaithful and had a brief affair a little over a year ago. I told him about it and we've been trying to get back on track but everything has been so difficult. I vacillate between not knowing whether I want to be married and feeling extremely guilty and remorseful.

 

I have not been in contact with the other man ever since, but as you can see, our marriage has continued to suffer.

 

You made a mistake and need to REALLY work at it to save your relationship. Take ownership of what you did, and begin to move forward. Look at this in the reverse, if he had done this to you, how would you feel? It's VERY difficult to get past infidelity, but it is possible. Have you tried marital counseling? It may save your marriage. And why not change your name as he wants? Really talk to him and tell him how you feel. Work on gaining his trust back.You both can work through this, but it will take time and a lot of effort.

[DN]

Well, Hollywood or Harlequin Romances make the idea of romantic love cloyingly sweet and unrealistic.

 

How to define it? Not to be flip but one way is - not what what you apparently feel for him which seems to be what? A liking maybe? Not much evidence of that. Respect? Well given his drug and alcohol abuse - perhaps not much of that either. A realisation of his good qualities? Yes, i think that is apparent but not so much as to make you want to be with him.

 

Did your pulse ever increase just a little when you saw him? Did you daydream about being with him? Was the prospect of being in his company exciting in any way? Do you miss him when he isn't there? Does the prospect of being without him sadden you? If he were to die tomorrow - would your primary emotion be grief or a secret relief? Or both?

 

Do you care more for his well-being than for your own? Would you sacrifice your life for his? Does the prospect of being with him for the rest of your life please you or scare you?

 

Are you really sorry that you cheated on him and hurt him so badly? If not - why not? And if you are sorry - why are you sorry?

[Ms Darcy]

I think what strikes me is that this marriage is only three years old and you know in your heart that you need to end it. Do what you need to do. I think if you want to be strong and independent, you can't be afraif of ripping off the band-aid all at once because slowly tearing it as you are now is just making it worse.

[TouchNastY]

HarboiledEgg:

 

I'll pre-empt this by saying:

If you don't want help, don't read this; it might burn on the way out.

 

That being said:

 

 

I hate to look at this as a t1t-for-tat sort of thing, where I did something that I need to "fix" and that's that.

Gas-light more. You're trying to assuage your guilt by saying but..but..but he has a drug problem!, or some other retrospective cherry-picked excuse to insert into the fill-in-the-blank that is your sense of accountability. Yes, you own it in words, but not in practice - saying that yes, you're the one who cheated, but something else HE did, not you, of course, gave impetus to it. That's bull, and you know it. Or maybe you don't. In which case, re-read and internalize two sentences back.

 

Using your logic, his alcohol and drug problem was caused by you, not him, and you're responsible for fixing it, since you're both culpable, not him. Doesn't sound appealing? Well that's the bull excuse you're trying to use to save your own ego and spread around your guilt, like some sort of shhh sandwich. Look, you f-ed up. YOU did. Not anyone else, don't point the fingers, it's you. Reminiscent of kindergarten.

 

 

I know that I will never stray again, and that I have no desire to[....]

More hardboiled bull. How do I know? Simple logic. I venture you believed this around the time you got married. And what happened? Exactly. So, since that point, your word don't mean shhh, and you yourself don't even know what you'll do. I do. Arrogant? I've spent years studying this; that's why I'm here. Have you done your due diligence? I'm going with a "no." Start now.

 

 

But for the record, I'm not looking for something "newer, better or more exciting."

You absolutely are. Take my word for it [my word's damn good]. You just don't realize it, so I shall elucidate: you don't respect this man. Look, I get it - he's human. He has his vices, he's f-ed up before. But you don't respect him. And that's why you feel no attraction - respect is the foundation of attraction. A foundation you're lacking. Why you don't have that respect for him is a peripheral issue - all that matters is that it's not there, explaining your lack of attraction, explaining your affair [which you weren't expecting, yet did...shows how much you know yourself {rational/limbic disconnect}]. You yourself just don't yet realize it. So listen you well:

 

You need to separate yourself, as you're not one bit willing to move. Go on your retreat and shhh. Ain't going to change anything, and you know it. Stop playing the victim, lamenting, "Oh poor hardboiled me, I must quarantine my bad self from everyone else." That's shhh. That's taking the easy way out, blaming everything else except yourself. Saying "it's my fault" isn't accountability. Remedial action is accountability.

 

 

And I'm not sure how to fix this feeling of disconnection.

You don't respect yourself. Think long and hard. Relationships are like adding second-stories to houses - they need to rest upon solid foundations. Try building a second on a shhhhy foundation, and we know what happens. It's easy to point the finger and say ______ is why it all fell (literally and figuratively), but the actuality is that you're lacking the foundation i.e. relationship with yourself. Fix it.

 

 

 

Straight up, why did you come here? Were you expecting the first five posts to be, "Oh yea, your husband's horrible, you're doing the right thing homegirl!" and then feel vindicated? You want help, but are being dragged kicking and screaming. It's like shhhhing your pants, then sitting there b-ing and moaning about it. Come on.

[Unreasonable]

I definitely think they should get couples counseling before they throw this away. If the husband thinks that's about admitting his own guilt, he has the wrong attitude. Maybe it won't help, but it is my feeling that EVERY effort needs to be made before finalizing this kind of decision. Personally I DO think the surname thing is him grasping at straws to find ANY reason to stay with her, but he won't go to counseling? Why?

[DN]

I definitely think they should get couples counseling before they throw this away. If the husband thinks that's about admitting his own guilt, he has the wrong attitude. Maybe it won't help, but it is my feeling that EVERY effort needs to be made before finalizing this kind of decision. Personally I DO think the surname thing is him grasping at straws to find ANY reason to stay with her, but he won't go to counseling? Why?

 

My guess is that he doesn't want her cheating to be put as 'just another problem' to be dealt with in counseling. He sees it as something that needs to be dealt with first and foremost and she has made it clear by reneging on her promise to change her name that she isn't willing to keep her word about anything - so what would be the point of counseling?

 

Counseling isn't a panacea guaranteed to fix relationships - if a couple go to counseling there has to be an assurance that both parties are committed to trying to fix the relationship. And from his point of view it may seem that doesn't appear to be the case on her part.

[Unreasonable]

From what I've read she only ever agreed to change her middle name. I can see why she wouldn't now if she felt divorce was probably imminent. In any case, I think the name thing is a complete side-issue that he's using as a (rather lame) justification to stay with her in spite of what she's done. Sure, counselling might not work, but if things are becoming imminent anyway, it couldn't hurt.

[DN]

From what I've read she only ever agreed to change her middle name. I can see why she wouldn't now if she felt divorce was probably imminent. In any case, I think the name thing is a complete side-issue that he's using as a (rather lame) justification to stay with her in spite of what she's done. Sure, counselling might not work, but if things are becoming imminent anyway, it couldn't hurt.

Well, it may seem lame to you but it is clearly important to him and to dismiss it on that basis would not be wise.

 

Cheating on a spouse is one of the worst forms of betrayal at more than one level. To ask for something like this as a symbol of commitment to the marriage actually makes sense - and if it doesn't to other people it does to him.

 

And clearly he is onto something - because the OP's refusal to keep her promise over this is highly indicative of her lack of commitment to him and to the marriage - as has been apparent since before the wedding. Her insistence on keeping her own name at the time looks less like a wish to keep her own name for professional and cultural reasons and more like no real wish to be married in the first place.

 

So it may seem lame to others but as a symptom of a greater malaise it is highly significant as yet another broken promise.

[Lady Rashomon]

Fair enough--I can accept and take to heart most of the things you have said here (particularly about the lacking foundation). Actually, I wasn't expecting to feel vindicated, and of all people, I hardly think my husband is horrible.

 

Actually, you hit on something: in some ways I do feel that his drug/alcohol use currently is my fault, which is a major reason I'd like us to go to counseling together. I have said to him repeatedly that I'd like to make things better between us, but a major impediment has been our inability to communicate constructively. I expect that going to counseling together will dredge up more than my affair, but I also fully expect that the core issue and crux of our going will be my affair. That is not something I am trying to run away from.

 

Also, I don't think I'm a bad person, nor do I want to quarantine myself from the rest of the world. My statement was a hyperbolic reference to the fact that I am not trying to escape my situation for something better. You can say what you wish to, especially if you think you're some sort of expert or something, but I have a little more self-awareness than that.

[TouchNastY]

Two years after our marriage I cheated, at which point he demanded that I change my last name in order to set things "right."

Whether deliberately, you're not reading between the lines. It's not the name changing, but the act of the name change [indicative of positive reception toward progress] that is paramount. As DN made mention and your intuition picked up, he's dropped this not because it's no longer important, but because you've quite explicitly shown you're not receptive to making progress - you don't need more ammunition or side-shows to steal the limelight.

 

 

i. I have been uncertain as to whether or not those doubts had to do with my own insecurities or something that was legitimately amiss in the marriage.

ii. [...]I believe marriage is what two individuals make it

First, you speak of "the marriage (i.)" as though it's a separate entity owned by you (like a corporation), postulating that something may be wrong with the intangible third-party, and not you. Later, you say that the marriage is simply composed of its constituents (ii.) i.e. you and your husband. Which is it? Do you see what it is you're doing here?

 

If the marriage isn't working, it's because one, or both, of its two constituents are broken. If there's something "legitimately amiss in the marriage," then it means there's something "legitimately amiss" with one, or both, of you! The marriage isn't anything; it's an intangible structure. Your first guess was that it was something to do with your own insecurities, and guess what? It's a pretty good guess.

 

 

i. At this point in my life, I don't feel certain of anything[...]

ii. In terms of what I'm clinging to, I guess I ask myself the same question every day.

iii. [...]my husband doesn't believe I am committed to our marriage.

I wonder why.

 

 

i. I saw the pain that my leaving would cause him, and I just wanted to mitigate our suffering

ii. There has been a great deal of hyperbole and finger-pointing from his side, but it's also something that I understand given that this is an emotionally difficult time for him.

iii. I have a great deal of empathy for what he is going through, and I want to help.

You dissociate yourself from your husband, right after having said that marriage is what two individuals make it. You ostensibly feel shared culpability for his drinking and drug problem, yet you dissociate from your having had an affair? So, since something is amiss in the marriage, and you and your husband make up the marriage, and it's not you.... Get it? You're ducking out while paying lip service to fixing your relationship. But you don't even care about it (see above) [which explains the lip service].

 

This is most notable in the first excerpt (i.) [perhaps this was subconscious?] in which you dissociate from the pain of leaving, implying it would hurt him, and not you, and yet the suffering being mitigated is experienced by both. This is very telling - you're both suffering, but your suffering is for a reason not related to the pain of leaving [not to mention of being cheated on]. Meaning, leaving your marriage and the consequences of cheating aren't contributing factors to your suffering.

 

So, is this not an emotionally difficult time for you (ii.)? More dissociation. Oddly, why didn't you have a "great deal of empathy (iii.)" [or is it sympathy?] prior to this? It's not you that was cheated on. Here's a novel idea: don't do something for which you'll have to apologize.

 

 

Being an empathic person, it is very difficult for me to accept that I could be the cause of another person's pain.

Here's another novel idea: being an empathic person, how about not causing that pain you'd later have to accept? Logically, you didn't feel this way prior to cheating, or it wouldn't have happened - so you're either lying, or your word is no good. Quite the package, HarboiledEgg.

 

 

I'm also curious as to what you mean by "romantic love," especially since most of the people who have told me to save my marriage have denounced the idea of romantic love as a Hollywood-produced myth.

The Hollywood portrayal is the myth, not the concept. The basic premise is one of mutual respect, support, acceptance, and investment. Re-read the first and last ones.

 

 

 

You don't now know why you want to stay, so leave. Mayhap then you'll find out why you shouldn't have left. I mean it quite objectively.

[Lady Rashomon]

i. I have been uncertain as to whether or not those doubts had to do with my own insecurities or something that was legitimately amiss in the marriage.

ii. [...]I believe marriage is what two individuals make it

First, you speak of "the marriage (i.)" as though it's a separate entity owned by you (like a corporation), postulating that something may be wrong with the intangible third-party, and not you. Later, you say that the marriage is simply composed of its constituents (ii.) i.e. you and your husband. Which is it? Do you see what it is you're doing here?

 

Let me explain what I meant here, because I don't disagree with you. By wondering whether there was something legitimately amiss in the marriage, I was referring more to our relationship with each other than as a disembodied entity. Things like compatibility, values, goals, chemistry, etc. That is: "Am I just overthinking the whole thing (my insecurities) or is this genuinely a mismatch?"

 

i. I saw the pain that my leaving would cause him, and I just wanted to mitigate our suffering

ii. There has been a great deal of hyperbole and finger-pointing from his side, but it's also something that I understand given that this is an emotionally difficult time for him.

iii. I have a great deal of empathy for what he is going through, and I want to help.

You dissociate yourself from your husband, right after having said that marriage is what two individuals make it. You ostensibly feel shared culpability for his drinking and drug problem, yet you dissociate from your having had an affair? So, since something is amiss in the marriage, and you and your husband make up the marriage, and it's not you.... Get it? You're ducking out while paying lip service to fixing your relationship. But you don't even care about it (see above) [which explains the lip service].

 

This is most notable in the first excerpt (i.) [perhaps this was subconscious?] in which you dissociate from the pain of leaving, implying it would hurt him, and not you, and yet the suffering being mitigated is experienced by both. This is very telling - you're both suffering, but your suffering is for a reason not related to the pain of leaving [not to mention of being cheated on]. Meaning, leaving your marriage and the consequences of cheating aren't contributing factors to your suffering.

 

Actually, that isn't entirely true. During our brief separation, being apart from him DID feel painful. And given the remorse and guilt and the pain of having caused him suffering and compromised his trust for me, I don't see how the consequences of cheating aren't contributing factors to my suffering.

 

 

Being an empathic person, it is very difficult for me to accept that I could be the cause of another person's pain.

Here's another novel idea: being an empathic person, how about not causing that pain you'd later have to accept? Logically, you didn't feel this way prior to cheating, or it wouldn't have happened - so you're either lying, or your word is no good. Quite the package, HarboiledEgg.

 

Just because I'm not a perfect person and have made some pretty egregious mistakes, that doesn't mean that I'm lacking in empathy and don't have the ability to make amends for my errors.

 

I'm also curious as to what you mean by "romantic love," especially since most of the people who have told me to save my marriage have denounced the idea of romantic love as a Hollywood-produced myth.

The Hollywood portrayal is the myth, not the concept. The basic premise is one of mutual respect, support, acceptance, and investment. Re-read the first and last ones.

 

 

 

You don't now know why you want to stay, so leave. Mayhap then you'll find out why you shouldn't have left. I mean it quite objectively.

 

Again, fair points. If I were to take everything I've read here at face value, it seems to me that there's no use in really trying anymore at all.

[DN]

Of course there is a point in trying. But only if you want to and love him enough.

[Lady Rashomon]

A sincere thank you to all who have responded to this thread. Much of the advice, words of wisdom (kind or otherwise), and thoughts have been very helpful and much appreciated.

[DN]

Have you responded to his e-mail?

[Lady Rashomon]

Have you responded to his e-mail?

 

We have talked over the phone several times in the past couple days. I did respond to his e-mail but it wasn't a good form of communication for me--I felt a lot better talking to him.

 

I brought up the idea of seeing a marriage counselor again, and this time, he was much more receptive. Talked about the name change, as well, which is still important to him.

[DN]

Are you still refusing the name change?

[Lady Rashomon]

I'm not refusing the name change, but I also don't see the logic in doing something so decisive until we fix our communication issues.

[DN]

Why not? You could always change it back again.

[benga]

Hardboiled - Does your husband have any inkling that you have been in contact with a past lover only very recently?

[OptomisticGirl]

Often times those who have been cheated on will ask for the cheaters to reassure them by asking them certain things. For your husband, it's a name change. I agree changing your name is just a band aide over a larger wound but if it's something so important to him and he is important to you, why not? What is wrong with putting your maiden name as your middle name? You aren't losing your identity. What it's going to boil down to is: what's more important to you, keeping your name or your marriage?

[Fudgie]

If keeping your name is important to you. I would keep it then and don't compromise. I don't get his fixation on it...you have deeper problems. If you change your name, it's going to fix NOTHING, and I mean NOTHING. The hurt feelings will still be there. So no, if you don't want to change your name, don't change your name.

 

To fix your marriage, you need to stick with your own values but also seek counseling. Do not drop your name just because he wants you to because he is hurt over the past. It solves nothing. You will end up resentful and like I said, changing the name solves NONE of the underlying issues that you guys have.

 

If a guy told me "change your name or I'll dump you", I'd leave him. I dated one guy who told me that he felt I wouldn't be "committed" if I didn't change my last name to his when I married him. I found that offensive and stupid. I left him. Any guy who NEEDS you to change so he can feel better about his own damn security issues isn't worth your time.

 

I am very proud of my father's name and it doesn't matter if I married a Prince, I would never change my last name, because it is a part of who I am and I love it. For me, it is a reminder of the strong bond that I have with my father and no one can replace that, a reminder of how he took a part in making me a living being, and then supporting me through life. Through all the life trials, it will always stay the same. Now, I am with someone who is OLDER than my own father, and still, I would never change my name for him, because he is not my father. He never had (nor will have) that role in my life. But it doesn't mean that I love him any less.

 

If you want this to work, then make it work. However, it doesn't sound like you do and that's okay. You're not a bad person. Find someone who you can feel sure about and won't pressure you into making these sorts of choices because he's still hurt.

[greywolf]

My thoughts are that the name change is a band-aid over a gaping wound. There are lots of serious issues in our marriage that I think we need to address--I have repeatedly suggested marital counseling, but I know that he is fearful and reluctant of going to a professional. Honestly, avoidance has been the primary tactic here--pretending it didn't happen and going on like things are normal until someone explodes.

 

He knew I felt very strongly about keeping my maiden name before we got married, so I think that my changing my name would symbolize me giving away something important in order to remedy what I took from him.

 

I think he wants you to change your name because he wants some sort of control over you, but that is not the answer.

[DN]

I disagree that it is control and I disagree that it is not important.

 

I think it is the only way that he can be assured that you have a commitment to the marriage and it is an affirmation of your agreement not to cheat on him again. By refusing to do so it makes it very clear to him that you have no commitment and that your wedding vows still have no real meaning to you.

 

The problem is that you can't prove a negative - you can't prove that you won't cheat again or that you are not cheating at this very moment. He has to take that on trust and you already destroyed his trust. By asking you to change your name he was asking for a visible and actual renewal of your vows - a sacrifice of something important as a demonstration of regret and commitment to the future.

 

But you are essentially saying is this: "Nope. Not gonna happen (even though I promised I would ) unless I get what I want first. You have to demonstrate your commitment to me by agreeing to go to counseling first and then I might consider changing my name."

 

But he suspects what I also suspect. That even if he were to agree to go to counseling and even if some sort of way of patching up the marriage were to be found, you would still find a way of reneging on your promise. You would try to enlist the counselor on your side over this issue. Just as you would try to make his drinking and drug use the main focus of the counseling instead of your cheating - and therefore put the primary blame on what has gone wrong onto him instead of trying to figure out why you married a man you didn't really love properly in the first place, why you married him and promised to love him him and stay faithful to him and why you broke those promises.

 

Just as people on here are saying you changing your name isn't important - you are hoping the counselor will say the same thing. But what people are missing is not only that it is important to him but why it is important to him. And I think that the reason it is important to him is that he knows that if you can't make this sacrifice and if you can't keep this promise you won't be able to make the sacrifice of remaining faithful and you won't be able to keep the promise that you made not to cheat again.

 

Just as a wedding ring is an important symbol of fidelity - the name change is a symbol of a renewed promise to remain faithful. And you have demonstrated that your promises are meaningless.

[Sanesoul]

If keeping your name is important to you. I would keep it then and don't compromise. I don't get his fixation on it...you have deeper problems. If you change your name, it's going to fix NOTHING, and I mean NOTHING. The hurt feelings will still be there. So no, if you don't want to change your name, don't change your name.

 

Changing her name is a symbolic gesture of her loyalty to him. It might be hard to understand, but she cheated on him. He wants this symbolic promise that she will be faithful. A refusal to change her name probably feels like she isn't committed to the marriage to him. It's not control at all.

 

The cheating partner has to make some concessions if they want to make an effort to save the marriage. Some of that is symbolic, and helpful to the wounded spouse.