Just got this e-mail from the husband--what to do?

[Lady Rashomon]

He deserves so much better than this. I just called him. We're going to talk about everything tonight.

[Unreasonable]

But here's what I keep coming back to: I've allowed my guilt to be what keeps me in this marriage--I've told myself time and again that I SHOULD be feeling a certain way, that I SHOULD be committed to my marriage (hence, the recent idea that feelings will follow commitment), and I SHOULD be in love with somebody as awesome as my husband. But I always come back to the fact that no matter how much I WANT those things, my reality is quite different. I've been in combat with myself for the past year (probably more than that) in the hopes that something will shift, but in response, all I'm getting is an equal and opposite reaction. leave. There's no point of keeping up this charade, which is exactly what you're describing. Maybe if you're lucky you'll find someone better suited to you.

[Fudgie]

Changing her name is a symbolic gesture of her loyalty to him. It might be hard to understand, but she cheated on him. He wants this symbolic promise that she will be faithful. A refusal to change her name probably feels like she isn't committed to the marriage to him. It's not control at all.

 

The cheating partner has to make some concessions if they want to make an effort to save the marriage. Some of that is symbolic, and helpful to the wounded spouse.

 

Symbolism or not, it still doesn't solve anything, it's a band-aid solution. It doesn't address the underlying reasons in their relationship. And it's important to her, it seems that it's a part of her identity and if she doesn't want to change it, she shouldn't have to. I think it's messed up that people are insinuating that she needs to "give up" a part of herself just to make this relationship work. I'm saying that doesn't have to happen. They need to work on their REAL issues.

 

Honestly, I think the reason why they are still struggling is because she hasn't done enough to help their relationship and improve his trust, her ambivalent feelings about the whole relationship are probably coming out in how she relates to him. Changing her name would do nothing to improve those relations. Maybe for a short time, but not for long term.

 

OP, your heart clearly isn't into this. you're staying out of guilt. You're not a bad person for leaving, so please don't think that. You need to do what is best for BOTH of you and leave so he can find someone who suits him, and same goes for you. You're not doing him a favor by sticking around because clearly, he's hurting and you feel "stuck". Not a good situation for either of you.

 

Leaving will be painful but he'll heal and move on, as will you.

[agent1607307371]

He deserves so much better than this.

 

You both do.

[Lady Rashomon]

You both do.

 

Thanks. But honestly, that isn't something I wholeheartedly believe. I think of the world of hurt I created for both of us, and I find it hard to believe that I can be deserving of a "good" relationship. Sure, I have my friends and family and community, so it isn't the end of the world, but in all honesty--would I want a partner like myself? I used to think I was so self-aware and smart, that my natural sense of caution and deliberation would serve me well, but today there are times when I stop and think, "How the hell did we get here?" A domino effect of unwise decisions that have culminated...in this.

[Fudgie]

This is what life is. We make mistakes and sometimes we hurt people, but what matters is that we make up for it, apologize, move on and LEARN from it so we don't do it again. This is what you need to do.

 

I have f'd up a couple relationships in the past. It doesn't make me a bad person. I came to terms with it and apologized and learned from it so I can be a better partner for my current boyfriend.

 

You're human. You made mistakes. You caused a lot of hurt/pain. Stop beating yourself up over it and feeling guilty so you can understand WHY you did what you did and you can move on from it. Staying with him is not helping. Let him go and move onto someone new. I doubt he will ever feel trusting of you again and you'll probably always feel guilty with him. It's not healthy either way. You tried your best, it wasn't enough, you learned your lesson, say you're sorry, and let each other go.

[DN]

Actually I think you are right to reject some sort of absolution. You feel guilt because your conscience is telling you that you did a wrong and that you really haven't made a proper effort to put it right. I know it is well intentioned for people to say it was a mistake but it wasn't a mistake - decisions were made while a mistake is inadvertent. And now this man is going to be hurt even more than he has been already because of a series of decisions that put his best interests as a secondary consideration. Hopefully, he will recover in time and find someone who does love him.

 

I also hope that you too learn from this and find happiness - and part of that will be recognising what love is and how it really works. I hope both of you find someone to properly love and be loved by in return.

 

For those who think his insistence on the name change was nothing more than a 'band-aid solution' - he has actually been proven correct in that insistence. The fact that it has become a dealbreaker has exposed the lack of love and commitment to the relationship before he invests even more emotion, time and money in a hopeless cause. How wise and farseeing he has been proven to be.

[Sanesoul]

Symbolism or not, it still doesn't solve anything, it's a band-aid solution. It doesn't address the underlying reasons in their relationship. And it's important to her, it seems that it's a part of her identity and if she doesn't want to change it, she shouldn't have to. I think it's messed up that people are insinuating that she needs to "give up" a part of herself just to make this relationship work. I'm saying that doesn't have to happen. They need to work on their REAL issues.

 

I'm speaking as someone with experience as a cheater. I have given up some things because I want my husband to know that I love him and will be faithful from this point forward, and I was glad to do it.

 

It seems the OP doesn't want to work on the relationship, so it's a moot point, but I was bringing my point of view in as someone who's been in her situation.

 

It's not giving something up so much as it is holding onto something much more important.

[Sanesoul]

For those who think his insistence on the name change was nothing more than a 'band-aid solution' - he has actually been proven correct in that insistence. The fact that it has become a dealbreaker has exposed the lack of love and commitment to the relationship before he invests even more emotion, time and money in a hopeless cause. How wise and farseeing he has been proven to be.

 

Exactly correct.

[DN]

It's not giving something up so much as it is holding onto something much more important.

That is the point that people seem to be missing. He had already given something up through no choice of his and this 'demand' was an attempt to regain it - and that was trust.

[Fudgie]

Wait, I'm confused...I agree with the name change thing was a "band-aid" solution, but by her saying "NO WAY" to changing her name shows that she doesn't love or want to commit to him? Is that what you're saying?

 

I think it would be possible that OP (if she wanted to) could show her trust/commitment by undergoing some SERIOUS changes in their relationship, seriously going to counseling, perhaps being very open with all her emails/technological communications so he sees that she isn't cheating, and the like. I agree that something big has to happen, but I disagree that it has to be the name change.

 

It's a moot point anyway. Given her feelings, I encouraged her to move on. But I just wanted to get this clarified.

[OptomisticGirl]

Changing your name when getting married is a huge thing that should be discussed earky on otherwise, it only breeds roblems later.

[DN]

Fudgie, it's irrelevant what you and I think about the name change. It's what they think that matters. If the OP's husband made it a condition of reconciliation that is his right. Just as it is her right to reject it.

 

Once someone cheats they put themselves clearly and unequivocally in the wrong. I don't wish to make the OP feel bad but it really is one of the worst betrayals, not only of your spouse but of yourself - you betray your own ethics and morals becuase you promised when you married to be faifhtful and to love your spouse.

 

If the cheated-upon spouse is prepared to forgive and try to save the marriage they have a right to demand something in return to show commitment. And it isn't for others to judge whether that is ridiculous or controlling or a band-aid. They get to decide what is meaningful for them - what they need from their cheating spouse to show regret, remorse and a willingness to make things right if that is possible.

 

The cheating spouse has a right to reject it and walk away - which is what the OP has decided to do.

[OptomisticGirl]

I would rep you DN but I'm on my phone. great point though.

[Fudgie]

I've never heard of that scenario...making sacrifices to show commitment to "right" a "wrong".

 

I'm still of the opinion that if it gets to that point, it's rather useless, but I've already expressed that to the OP. She needs to make that choice for herself.

 

I hope she follows her heart, which, if what she is saying is right, is telling her to leave. She needs to go with her gut.

[Lady Rashomon]

Wait, I'm confused...I agree with the name change thing was a "band-aid" solution, but by her saying "NO WAY" to changing her name shows that she doesn't love or want to commit to him? Is that what you're saying?

 

I think it would be possible that OP (if she wanted to) could show her trust/commitment by undergoing some SERIOUS changes in their relationship, seriously going to counseling, perhaps being very open with all her emails/technological communications so he sees that she isn't cheating, and the like. I agree that something big has to happen, but I disagree that it has to be the name change.

 

It's a moot point anyway. Given her feelings, I encouraged her to move on. But I just wanted to get this clarified.

 

Thanks, Fudgie. Here are some of the changes that I did agree to throughout the course of the last year (both because I offered and because he asked):

 

1) Quit the job I was working at (the affair was a co-worker) and sought work closer to home

2) Demonstrably cut back on my social commitments in order to spend more time with my husband to cultivate more closeness

3) Gave him all the passwords to my Facebook, AIM, and e-mail (so I felt very comfortable telling him about the e-mails from my ex, obviously)

4) Went to an anger management class (he mentioned that he felt my anger was a major issue throughout our relationship and he wanted me to change my attitude; I don't think this is altogether fair, but I did it because he felt it was important)

5) Made more of an effort to keep in touch with his family (they live on the opposite coast, and he made it clear that he wanted me to do things like call his parents once a week, even though I don't even do so with my own parents...and all the while KNOWING that they were fully aware of my affair)

6) Planned romantic/meaningful outings and getaways for us both, sent him cute notes, made his favorite dinner as a surprise, etc. (little things to let him know I was thinking of him)--essentially, doing what I could to instill more romance in our relationship

7) Essentially, unfriended every single straight male acquaintance or friend of mine--even people I have known for numbers of years--because he feels that straight men who are friends with straight women have an ulterior motive

8) Made a huge effort to involve him in every aspect of my life--my community, my hobbies, groups I'm a part of--despite the fact that he is not a social person

9) Learning to cook (I didn't really know how before) and making the majority of our meals (he has a very stressful job and I've been trying to find ways to offer more support than I have in the past)

 

Granted, all of these things are fairly small in and of themselves, and I don't think they necessarily amount to far-reaching change (which is why I've asked that we go to counseling or even see a less traditional therapist...perhaps get involved in a spiritual community of sorts), but I had been trying to show him there are other things I could do to make amends.

[Fudgie]

HardboiledEgg,

 

It sounds like you did a lot, actually. Built up all together, it's a lot. Really, I commend. Giving the passwords alone...gosh, I don't even know if I could ever do that.

 

But, despite all of that, things aren't working, right? There needs to be reason for it. Don't feel bad, I feel that you've done a lot. I mean, if you have done all that and really feel like you WANT to make this relationship work and he's like "no forget it. despite everything that you've done, if you don't change your name, we're through..." I think that's kind of messed up. What do you think?

 

However, perhaps it's just that you do feel ambivalent about the whole relationship (which you have expressed) and he's picking up on that, despite all the things that you've done? That's another possibility that could be happening. Then, he'd be using the "name change" thing to judge your commitment to him because he's picking up that you're not sure, which you're not. You need to examine your own feelings here and judge accordingly. Again, it's not wrong to have these feelings. You need to do what makes you happy. Remember, you live for you, not others. Don't stay because you feel guilty...NEITHER of you will ever be happy.

 

I do not think you're a bad person. Yes, you've done something wrong...You've done something to hurt him in the past but it sounds like you learned from it and are trying to make amends. I respect that. If things don't work out because he can't feel right with you ever again, then that's how things are. There are consequences for our actions and sometimes, we can never fix things. I think you are starting to feel this way or else you wouldn't be second-guessing yourself by staying married to this guy.

[DN]

But you refused to do what he needed from you. And he has been proven right since it appears you are going to dump him.

 

Are you a bad person? I don't know. Have you done something really bad? Yes. You have badly hurt a man whose major mistake was to love you and now you are going to hurt him again. Sorry, but I for one will not blame him if he is bitter. He has every right.

[AndiD]

He has told me many times that he feels passion for me, and I definitely believe him. I guess that ultimately, we have two different ways of expressing that passion.

 

I don't know that I ever felt the romance and passion for him, but I've always felt comfortable with him. At the very beginning of our relationship, I knew it wasn't going to be fireworks and crazy sparks, and I was honestly okay with that. We have a fantastic intellectual rapport and a similar sense of humor. He's much more stoic than I am, however, which makes romance a bit more difficult.

 

 

That passion and romance is not a myth. Including with someone loyal and dependable.

 

Wait, I'm confused...I agree with the name change thing was a "band-aid" solution, but by her saying "NO WAY" to changing her name shows that she doesn't love or want to commit to him? Is that what you're saying?

 

She didn't say "NO WAY" to it. She agreed to do it. And then just...didn't.

 

That's not about the name. That's about another commitment being broken. And that's pretty big when a couple is trying to rebuild from cheating/dishonesty issues.

 

And for the record, I NEVER made the promise to change my last name to his (just my middle name).

 

But you didn't do it. Not the last name or the middle name, correct?

 

This isn't about bad person/good person stuff. The world isn't black and white like that. But it is about getting your stuff together and not hurting someone over and over.

 

The calling his family thing is kinda weird. What's up with that?

[Lady Rashomon]

Sigh.

 

I realize the whole name change thing is a bit complicated, but let's get this straight. I WAS GOING TO FOLLOW THROUGH WITH CHANGING MY MIDDLE NAME, and then he told me not to do it--it wasn't good enough.

I agreed to do something and then didn't do it--not because I wasn't willing to follow through, but because he ultimately told not to! Taking that step to change my name (even just a middle name change) was a huge deal for me, and then to be told by him that it wasn't sufficient was reason enough for me to NOT go through with it.

 

Make sense now?

[Lady Rashomon]

I don't think that he feels the things I've done so far aren't "good enough," actually. He's commented numerous times on how much I've changed in the past year, for the better. But he's an intuitive person, and he'll often say "Sometimes I question how much you love me," probably because he senses there is a core of ambivalence. For him, it's not the things I'm doing that are important--it's the sentiment behind those things. He knows that I love him, but he doesn't sense that I love him in the way that he loves me.

[DN]

I am still not clear why it is that he is supposed to have told you not to go through with it and yet he is making it the central point of his e-mail to you quoted in your initial post.

[DN]

But here's what I keep coming back to: I've allowed my guilt to be what keeps me in this marriage--I've told myself time and again that I SHOULD be feeling a certain way, that I SHOULD be committed to my marriage (hence, the recent idea that feelings will follow commitment), and I SHOULD be in love with somebody as awesome as my husband. But I always come back to the fact that no matter how much I WANT those things, my reality is quite different. I've been in combat with myself for the past year (probably more than that) in the hopes that something will shift, but in response, all I'm getting is an equal and opposite reaction. :sad:

He knows that I love him, but he doesn't sense that I love him in the way that he loves me. :sad:

These posts seem contradictory.

[AndiD]

Do it anyway, if healing the marriage is your goal. Whatever it was you agreed to - do it anyway. Follow through, without him "making" you. Do not let anything stop you at this point from following through on a promise that you made, not even him. That is the only way to rebuild trust. Every promise you make must be followed through on, even if he releases you from it.

 

And if he thinks that you agreed to change your last name - well, personally I'd change the last name if I were in your position and wanted to save the marriage, because making him feel the promise was kept would be more important to me than a name. Again, if my priority were healing the marriage.

 

As has been said by several, what comes accross in your posts is that haven't made that your emotional priority. If that's the case, you need to figure it out and make your decision one way or the other, cause the halfway stuff is, as I said before, cruel.

[Lady Rashomon]

These posts seem contradictory.

 

How are they contradictory? I do love my husband--he's my best friend in many respects, but I don't feel the deep passion for him that he feels for me. I guess it's the whole cliche of loving someone yet not being in love with them. He knows that I want the best for him, and he knows that I love him, but he senses, perhaps, that it's a love that comes from habit and familiarity rather than something more meaningful.