He's great, he's gorgeous... and he's married.

[TheSmilingTurnip]

I agree with Batya. What is sad in this situation is that the people participating in it slowly start to lose touch with reality as it regards their relationship. They get addicted to the high of the forbidden fruit. That's where you are, it seems. Unable to be truly honest with yourself or to know what the truth is.

 

I've been there many times (not in a relationship with a married man, just unsuitable relationships), where so many people were telling me some really good truths and I was not able to really process it. I would say, 'yes you're right, BUT...' and then convince myself that what they were saying wasn't entirely true, they didn't have all the facts, or that it actually wasn't true at all.

 

I also very strongly agree with Batya on the passivity. You're an active partcipant, this isn't just magically happening to you. When you think of what happens with this relationship, I encourage you to think about it in an active way. 'He was close to me and I chose to kiss him.' Not 'I don't know how it happened, we just ended up kissing.' You know that's not honest. Thinking back on it, you know every detail of how that kiss happened, and you wanted that kiss to happen, so you chose to participate in that kiss, which I highly doubt was just a peck on the cheek.

 

Thinking about yourself as an active participant who is making active choices in this relationship will help you stay in reality. And it will also empower you.

 

We all make mistakes, so I will try not to judge you for it. It's your life,,,,and his wife and child's too I guess, but you're the one here asking for help. But stay in an active mode, be as honest as you can be with yourself, and don't rationalize.

[tangi39]

Perfect post- Couldn't have said it better.

 

OP- I have seen this happen over and over to people I know- Don't get involved with married people. It always ends the same way, with the OW/OM alone and crushed, worse off than they were before.

Hurt and alone when the reality sets in that all they were was a temporary distraction from the person's real love life.

Do yourself a favor and avoid the horrific pain that is sure to follow- Walk away NOW !!!!!

[E. Dane]

That's correct; all the responses I got here predicted something like this would happen. I, of course, acted according to my usual stubbornness and thought things would end up differently. I honestly thought we could work on our friendship and be friends only.

 

Now that I think about last night, I realize that I wasn't even looking forward to seeing him again. I didn't feel my usual anticipatory nervousness or daydreamed of how great it would be to see him. Actually, I almost wanted to cancel, but for some reason I didn't. But when I saw him waiting for me outside the place I had this funny feeling of comfort. Plus, he seemed really excited to see me and kept hugging me even when we got into the bar. I didn't feel all fuzzy inside, like I would have a few weeks ago, but it did feel good. Anyway, as we were talking and he started being really flirtatious, I told him "you know exactly what you're doing here" and he didn't deny it.

 

I feel like I am waking up (even if only a little) to the way he thinks and what goes on through his head. This is a guy that needs attention and, so far, I haven't had a problem giving it to him. The attention giving is actually a mutual thing - I don't crave for attention like he does, but what he gives me is exactly what I've always lacked (from a very early age) and I'll be honest, it's very addicting to receive something you've always wanted and never even knew it was available to you. I know, I know this sounds sick, "he's married" and "I should find myself an available man" - I agree with that 100% and I also see how unhealthy this "attention exchange" really is. But, as I said, it's pretty addictive. Anyhow, I got to see that he does know what he is doing and that he does have control over it, but is choosing not to restrain himself too much. And, BeStrongBeHappy hit the nail right on the head with "He wants to keep things at a nice sexy simmer, where he's totally in control, enjoying the excitement, but you are not actually threatening his marriage. So when things get too hot and you might expect him to leave his wife, he'll cool it off. And when things cool off and he's not getting enough excitement, he'll turn on the heat again."

 

Heh... I thought I'd feel all tingly inside if we ever kissed, but to me it didn't feel that way. It definitely felt good, but it also felt a little duty-like, if that makes any sense. I still stick to what I said before - I don't know where the hell that kiss came from, but yeah, as another poster said, I actually can remember everything that lead to it, step-by-step. A little contradicting, I know. I don't feel any butterflies in my stomach today either.

 

Oh man, I was pretty honest with him last night and it was kind of weird to realize that he is choosing not to get out of this situation... and to see him acknowledge the fact that this is snowballing into something bad. Until last night I had been looking up to him as "the strong one", the guy who had all these feelings that he could just not help, but wanted to remain faithful to his wife. Well, now I am questioning that. I still think he is a great person, but something, I don't know what exactly, is shifting on my perception of him.

 

About an hour before we kissed (I am not sure anymore what brought up this conversation) I told him I thought we were having an "emotional affair" (I've been familiar with this term for a while...) and he kind of agreed, but said he'd prefer to call it "safe dating", since we're not really doing anything physical. Well, after that, lo and behold...

 

Anyway, wrapping up this ginormous post, he called me a couple of minutes ago. He was in a great mood, said he was totally cool about what happened, asked if I was ok with it and said "you're still my hot friend". I am making a conscious effort to feel offended by that statement, but no luck so far. I feel like that kind of statement should bother me and it really bothers me that it doesn't. He also told me he might quit his job soon, as he needs a change of life and right now it's been hard to make ends meet. He's applying for a higher position within our organization and I guess if he doesn't get it, he'll quit. The idea of him quitting scares me a bit and I don't like that.

 

Well, ok, thanks again for your posts and taking the time to reply. I am really not sure where I'm standing now, but it's a relief to let it out here...

[Aleadragonhawk]

E. Dane - I've been following your thread but haven't posted yet. One thing I noticed was that when you went on your vacation, you weren't worried about him. You were pretty cool and calm, and felt like you could handle the situation. You weren't even looking forward to seeing him. Things got out of hand after you met up again.

 

Have you considered going no contact?

[TheSmilingTurnip]

I don't know where the hell that kiss came from, but yeah, as another poster said, I actually can remember everything that lead to it, step-by-step. A little contradicting, I know. I don't feel any butterflies in my stomach today either.

 

It's contradicting because it's not true. You are not being straight with yourself. You know exactly where that kiss came from. You want him, he wants you. That's where it came from. Period. End of story. You are dishonestly overcomplicating matters in an effort to make yourself feel better (and excuse yourself) about something that you are NOT comfortable with but don't actually want to stop doing.

 

Just be honest with yourself. These posts are too wordy when the answers are in fact VERY VERY simple, if you are being honest.

 

1. you want him.

2. he wants you.

3. he is married.

4. you and he are sneaking around and telling lies to yourselves and others in order to eventually get what you want.

[curiousofthat]

It's contradicting because it's not true. You are not being straight with yourself. You know exactly where that kiss came from. You want him, he wants you. That's where it came from. Period. End of story. You are dishonestly overcomplicating matters in an effort to make yourself feel better (and excuse yourself) about something that you are NOT comfortable with but don't actually want to stop doing.

 

Just be honest with yourself. These posts are too wordy when the answers are in fact VERY VERY simple, if you are being honest.

 

1. you want him.

2. he wants you.

3. he is married.

4. you and he are sneaking around and telling lies to yourselves and others in order to eventually get what you want.

 

This is exactly what I wanted to write. I'm just not that good with words. That was well said.

[tangi39]

About an hour before we kissed (I am not sure anymore what brought up this conversation) I told him I thought we were having an "emotional affair" (I've been familiar with this term for a while...) and he kind of agreed, but said he'd prefer to call it "safe dating", since we're not really doing anything physical. Well, after that, lo and behold...

 

QUOTE]

 

That says it all. Of course he wants to put a nice label on it- He will never want to admit that he's a liar and a cheater. An affair is an affair, kissing another woman is an affair- You don't "date" a married person - You cheat with a married person. Call a mule a horse, it's still a mule. Call an affair anything you want, it's still an affair.

 

I find it interesting that he called you his "hot friend". Notice he didn't say, "My good friend" or use any other adjectives to desribe you beyond the physical. This speaks volumes as to his true feelings towards you.

 

I personally think it would be better for you both if he got a new job.

But then again, with the type of man he is, he'll probably just try to his seduce the new "hot friends" he makes there.

 

You deserve better than this creep- Please save yourself the trouble.

[E. Dane]

It's contradicting because it's not true. You are not being straight with yourself. You know exactly where that kiss came from. You want him, he wants you. That's where it came from. Period. End of story. You are dishonestly overcomplicating matters in an effort to make yourself feel better (and excuse yourself) about something that you are NOT comfortable with but don't actually want to stop doing.

 

Just be honest with yourself. These posts are too wordy when the answers are in fact VERY VERY simple, if you are being honest.

 

1. you want him.

2. he wants you.

3. he is married.

4. you and he are sneaking around and telling lies to yourselves and others in order to eventually get what you want.

 

 

I can't disagree with the main point of your post, but I really do have to disagree with the part where you say I am dishonestly overcomplicating matters in an effort to make myself feel better. I admitted to kissing him and I admitted to the fact that I remember, step-by-step, everything that lead to it. Of course I know how and why it happened; yes, we're obviously very attracted to each other, but my point is: I did not see it coming. (Yes, throughout our whole thing of course I saw a kiss coming, etc, but at that exact moment, no, I didn't).

 

Also, I think you are right in saying that this is a pretty simple issue, but once you're in a relationship, once you're a part of all the turmoil, things are not so easy. And this goes for any type of relationship, romantic or not. It's a human condition to not be able to see things as straight as we would like when we are part of a troubled relationship, be it with a family member, a co-worker, a significant other, etc. I am sure everybody here has experienced at least one type of relationship in which they wish they could change something about it and even knew exactly what to do, but just couldn't do it.

 

Now, yes, I know exactly what to do and I know that this is wrong. Period. Simple. End of story, as you said. I know I have a choice here. But I am also aware of (and I am not trying to victimize myself here) all the emotional gaps that I have and I know exactly where they came from. My personal history and family background tells me exactly why I am letting myself involved in this. And it also tells me why it is so damn hard to say "no" to this guy. I am not trying to justify my foul actions here and I am not trying to tell myself that I am f***ed up so I have no control over my behavior. I am saying that it is really hard to break the only pattern I have known my entire life, which is not being "the other woman", but accepting unacceptable situations.

 

I am not trying to make myself feel better by my "wordy posts" - please don't say that. Thinking about this actually makes me feel like crap, but it's the least I can do, don't you think? I honestly want to get out of this situation, but finding the drive to do it is pretty much unimaginable right now.

[tangi39]

E. Dane,

 

The way this man phrases it "safe dating".

Even assuming he was single- why would you want this ?

Don't you want to be able to feel passion and love without reserve ?

To be able to kiss, hold, love, and be intimate with someone without guilt or shame ? To be placed first in his life before everything and everyone else ?

To have someone there when you want them there and not just "stealing moments" here and there ?

To have a man who not only feels passion for you (Because, let's face it- passion fades) but also genuine love and concern for you as a person ?

 

This man can't offer you any of this.

 

I don't know about you, but I sure wouldn't want to be in a relationship where one person gets to determine the when, where and how of everything.

I would never want a limit of my love. I would want to wake up at 1 am and go out for drinks. Or have him there nursing me when I'm sick. Soothing him to sleep when he's had a bad dream. Calming his fears. Having him make me dinner when I've had a bad day.

Do you want a man who can actually offer you things ?

 

I'm sure you can find a single man who wants to give all of himself to you, to love you without reserve and caution. Romance shouldn't be about ducking and hiding. Wouldn't you want to shout your love for someone to the rooftops ? Instead of living with lies and secrets ? Doesn't sound very fun or romantic to me. Having everything be scheduled and sensible. But that's just me.

 

The Biggest problem with seeing someone who views you for attraction alone, is attraction is fleeting. It's important that your relationship have a stronger basis than that because there will always be someone younger and/or prettier than you.

Do you want him to eventually do to you what he is doing to his wife ?

That is the raw deal you will be faced with when you could have focused your energy on finding a man who genuinely loves you.

 

I understand it must be hard having feelings for someone you know you shouldn't.

But a lot of times these are fantasies for a reason, the truth will never measure up. And you'll be left hurt.

I'd hate to see you go through years of this only to have him crush you entirely.

Please protect your heart, it's more valuable than this man.

[Aleadragonhawk]

Another thought - he may call it "safe dating" because he doesn't have to worry about things like long-term commitment.

[healthseeker]

It is so strange how you never bring up his wife and child in your posts, unless you are referring to him bringing them up. Do you think of them at all?

[Batya33]

It's a cliche that it's hard to get perspective when you're "in it' but you chose to be "in it' so it's now your obligation (because you are impacting an innocent child, among others) to get objective and to do that very quickly, with therapy as needd.

 

I was also struck by your analysis of whether you felt butterflies or warm and fuzzy - interesting standard you have there - do you really expect to feel that way if you keep seeing this guy knowing he is going home to his wife and child, and having sex with his wife and taking his wife out on dates, and doing all that warm fuzzy married stuff and keeping his "hot friend" on the side for a little action when he's bored? Of course, once he stops feeling the butterflies with you, he likely will find a younger, sexier hot friend.

 

It doesn't matter if you have temporary amnesia about how the kiss happened - you have to accept that you chose to do it and whether you felt butterflies or dutiful doesn't change that. That is what might end up being the motivation you need to stop (meaning I am repeating it for that reason, not as a judgment).

[ImThatGirl]

I honestly want to get out of this situation, but finding the drive to do it is pretty much unimaginable right now.

 

Anyone can do anything if they truly want to and put their mind to it.

 

What's next, sleeping with him because the excitement just lead up to it even though you had in your mind that he was only a friend?

 

Stop meeting with him.

 

Stop ignoring the fact that you acting like a homewrecker.

 

Yes he is responsible for this as well. But you've stated it clearly. You know you are wrong for participating. So stop it. It doesn't matter why or what got you to this point. The fact is you know it's wrong and you need to control yourself, cut ties, and find someone that is "available."

[TheSmilingTurnip]

The wordy posts are an effort to explain yourself to others and to you. Try boiling down each paragraph to as few words as possible and you will end up with very simple truths. It's not about improving your writing but instead about using writing as a tool to come to some conclusions.

 

No one would consciously choose to overcomplicate and make things dishonest. It just happens. Believe me, I've been in your shoes before.

 

Be honest with yourself - how could you not see it coming? You two are very attracted to eachother, and you met eachother at a bar without his spouse there. Obviously, both of you are not good at setting limits for eachother and yourselves, so where else would all that intensity go except toward the logical conclusion, one step at a time?

[E. Dane]

^ Ok, let's try that:

 

I haven't heard from him nor have I tried to contact him since yesterday morning. I know it doesn't sound like much, but for two people who used to be in constant contact through e-mail I find this quite significant!

 

He's in my mind all day, but I am not freaking out over it. I am also internally rehearsing this "speech" of things I want to say to him in case he contacts me again.

 

That's it.

[E. Dane]

It is so strange how you never bring up his wife and child in your posts, unless you are referring to him bringing them up. Do you think of them at all?

 

Uh, yes, I think of them a lot, to be honest. I am actually just too embarrassed to even bring them up. I think it shows even more disrespect if I keep talking about them.

[Batya33]

If you refer to them as "one of the reasons I want no contact with him is because he is married and has a child" that is not disrespectful.

[KunFyoosed]

^ Ok, let's try that:

 

I haven't heard from him nor have I tried to contact him since yesterday morning. I know it doesn't sound like much, but for two people who used to be in constant contact through e-mail I find this quite significant!

 

He's in my mind all day, but I am not freaking out over it. I am also internally rehearsing this "speech" of things I want to say to him in case he contacts me again.

 

That's it.

 

Hello E.Dane,

 

Reading your posts are very insightful and I thank you for being so open with your thoughts. I know posting on these boards possibly aid you in your personal process; I know they do mine.

 

My OW and I haven't been in contact for the past 4 days now. Everytime I think of breaking NC and sending her a supposedly innocent and simple "How are you doing" text message I think of your posts and I refrain. Though I very much am concerned by her welfare and how her day has been I know that any healing we do by no contact goes back to square one with a simple text message.

 

Though I still would like to remain her friend I am very aware that if we meet under the guise of friendship it could end up with kissing, hugging and declaring our emotions again. I know for her own sanity (and mine) she is trying to stay away (though she's adamant we can be friends). I love and respect her enough to help her in this process by not breaking down and contacting her. It has been very difficult though and I hope I can go another 4 days.

 

Good luck. What do you planning on telling him when/if you get in contact again? And do you really think you'll have the strength? It sounds like your emotions and feelings for him have taken a turn but are still very strong. You have accepted the idea that he does everything consciously but that hasn't seemed to have turned you off to him.

[meinreallife]

E.Dane,

 

There's a lot of judgement on ENA that is clothed in terms "advice". Then there is a lot of really heart felt advice on ENA that comes from past pain. We are all trying to help prevent the pain regardless of how it comes out here. I don't think there are many on ENA that are here because we haven't experienced something in our relationships that has truly hurt our hearts.

 

With all that said I will try to say what I feel about your place right now. As we grow older our circle of relationships grow. We can no longer simply be the child being held, but we need to do a lot of the holding. We all sacrifice some of ourselves as we make promises to others. No decision we make in our relationships is without consequence. As you choose your path in the next few weeks, think about who you want to make promises to, and will those promises be given back. Love is the farthest thing from rational. If it were, we'd all be happy every day of our lives. These choices would be easy.

 

I know I will be disagreed with here, that is the nature of this site and I welcome it, but only you can know if this guy and you can make it. You probably already know.

 

My endless rambling I think lead nowhere...I guess I'm just as lost too. Good luck and thank you for being honest. In many ways it helps us all.

[itsallgrand]

Honestly, the people that are saying that going no contact with him is hard, painful, will take time are wrong IMO!!

 

It's all in your perspective.

 

And obviously, your current perspective and attitude has gotten you in this situation that has you posting here. With a whole lot of hand-wringing, but also a certain savoring of the whole deal.

 

So if you truly want a change, change your perspective. Your attitude. You don't get out of a hole by thinking the same you you did to get there!

 

To me, turning down a married man is not hard. It's not painful. I can't say I "get" what it is you find so irresistible about this drama at all.

 

And that is what is addictive to you. Not the man. The DRAMA.

 

That has always been so and it will continue to be that way.

 

Going no contact and not thinking about him can happen in a minute. It's a no brainer. It's PEACE.

 

You aren't giving up something....you are gaining freedom. A clean break from a little human hell of betrayals, lies, and fake fake fake emotion.

 

The real world is so much better.

 

And rather than thinking of this as "doing the right thing" "being a better person" or any of that garbage....it is so much simpler and more efficient (cuts through the emotional bull) to focus on being authentic.

 

Question is: are you prepared to be authentic instead of living in this fantasy land? Real life isn't always easy.

 

If you think breaking off from this is "hard"...then I can only imagine how difficult you must imagine an actual healthy relationship to be.

 

But it's all possible if you'll only just decide.

[E. Dane]

meinereallife and itsallgrand, both your posts hit me in a pretty soft spot - they are really making me think and I think it's going to take a while for me to get my thoughts completely organized here. (I'll report back

 

itsallgrand, it's funny that you say that I am addicted to the drama when right now I am wearing a shirt that says "I don't do drama". It'd be hilarious if it weren't a little tragic, huh? Well, there's one thing I'm sure of and that is I've never had a single healthy relationship in my life, be it with parents or significant others. I guess I have quite a lot of learning to do.

 

meinereallife, I really appreciate your honesty here. I am pretty sure that's kinda what I want to hear, but it's very comforting to know that someone can empathize with me here.

 

KunFyoosed, congrats on being faithful to your decision. It sure takes balls. I just found an e-mail from him asking how I've been doing and saying that he's worried about me. He also said, and I quote: "I just care about you, guess it goes with the territory. Our whole situation seems always on the verge of disaster ; P (Well not always. Man, I'm such a worrier!)" I honestly don't know what to reply. I don't know if I should reply at all. I do miss him, though.

 

Also, you're right when you say my feelings for him have taken a turn but are still very strong. I don't know if I'll have the strength to cut him off, but I sure hope so. And yeah, I don't know why the hell these realizations don't turn me off to him. I feel completely powerless when it comes to this man.

 

Thanks for your post, btw. It's definitely an inspiration

[itsallgrand]

What about friends, E. Dane? Have you had/have some healthy friendships?

 

This is the sort of time when good friends come in real handy. And if some are faltering but there, it's a time when you can distract yourself with refocusing on strengthening up those bonds.

 

Congrats on a few days without contact. That's a good step.

[BeStrongBeHappy]

'Safe dating'?? Safe for whom? Obviously not for his wife, whom he isn't thinking about one bit. And not for you, because there's nothing in it for you since he's married.

 

So who's it safe for... HIM!! He can go out and act single with you and he knows you won't rat him out to his wife. He's that confident that he's got you wrapped around his little finger (and he does).

 

This guy seems like a charming spinmaster who reminds me very much of a womanizer I know, especially the stroking of your ego (calling you a hot friend!) while trying to convince you how 'safe' and good and harmless this situation is...

 

Meanwhile, he's taking it one step closer to bed with a kiss, and he's spiced up his life with absolutely no obligation to you whatsoever.

 

I think you will soon enough discover this guy is not what he appears. He sounds pretty sophisticated at this game, and very used to playing it. He's leading you down the path one step at a time, but you need to stop and think, where does that path lead? It honestly doesn't lead anywhere at all...

 

he's got a little family with his wife now, and has already had the 'i can't leave my wife' talk with you, so from now on, every step you take in his direction he is perceiving as a sign that you will accept his married state and not challenge it and very well might cheat with him if he keeps stroking and 'dating' you.

 

What is there in it for you? Nothing... this is wasting your time and confusing you. Can you really envision any kind of real relationship with a guy like this, especially one you know is perfectly content to 'date' other women while pretending to be loyal to someone else. You can never trust this guy, period.

 

Don't waste more of your time and life on him. Just see him as a charming (but shallow) individual who tried to suck you into his cheating game to spice up his life. He will just move onto someone else, if he doesn't already have more than one flirtation/safe date than you. Most womanizers do have more than one person they are chasing and don't value any of the woman they 'safe date'.

[KunFyoosed]

.

I just found an e-mail from him asking how I've been doing and saying that he's worried about me. He also said, and I quote: "I just care about you, guess it goes with the territory. Our whole situation seems always on the verge of disaster ; P (Well not always. Man, I'm such a worrier!)" I honestly don't know what to reply. I don't know if I should reply at all. I do miss him, though.

 

Try your DAMNDEST not to reply to this email. My OW replying to my texts and emails only prolong the feelings I have for this woman and fuels the confusion...

 

Take some time to reflect without contact.

 

Personally, I am dying to send my "friend" an "innocent" message tonight but know it won't help either of us heal or move forward. Thanks for the props on how ballsy you think I've been about this....I keep thinking I'm gonna screw up at some point though.

[Circe]

First of all, PLEASE don't judge...

 

But I did have what I call a "healthy crush", something that I compare to having for a cute high school teacher. It was something that I couldn't help feeling, but it wasn't overwhelming and I was absolutely ok with the fact that I would never have that man.

 

 

Be honest, please.. were you ever honestly okay with the knowledge that you couldn't have him? Or were you always regretful of this and wishing it would change (thereby making you more likely to be on the look out for ways to be together and more receptive of them?)

 

 

But I also realize at this point that he is kind of a flirt, but I don't respond to any of it.

 

 

Again.. really? Or did you respond to it by being coy - rather than being as overtly flirtatious as he? Because playing it coy is still responding.

 

 

... He kisses my forehead, my cheeks, my neck; he strokes my hair and tells me that I am beautiful and how in love he is with me. I have never said I am in love with him back (which I obviously am), but I do correspond the physical contact.

 

 

Quite frankly, if he loved you, he wouldn't be doing this to you. He wouldnt be setting you up for a world if disappointment and hurt and regret. He would let you be free (emotionally free) to live your life and meet a man who truly can love you and give you what you deserve.

 

I know he must have a huge emotional gap (as do I) that he is trying to fill

 

 

You know nothing of the kind. He might very well just love the extra attention even though his wife is as emotionally and physically loving and caring as any woman could be. Either that or he has an endless pitt of emotional need - and you as the other woman, will not be sufficient to fill that pit - and he'll see others as well as you (if he isn't already)

 

And please don't believe what he says about his wife and their marriage. The man is a proven liar and cheat (the way he is with you means he is lying to and cheating on his wife/mother of his kids/woman to whom he has made vows of fidelity, love and commitment.

 

Why on earth would he be honest with you if he will not be honest with her?

 

I am not a bad person. I am not sitting here, plotting how I am going to destroy a family. I am sitting here, drowning in guilt, trying to figure out how I am going to forget this man. I know we shouldn't see each other anymore, but at this exact moment, this thought just seems impossible.

 

I fear I might have crossed the line trying to kiss him last night. I feel like I have offended him and scared him away, since I haven't heard a single word from him today.

 

Again, please don't judge me, just give me some insight or share a similar experience

 

 

I don't feel you are a bad person at all but I feel very sorry for you because I know you don't see just how much of a torturous ride you are in for if you continue with this.