He's great, he's gorgeous... and he's married.

[Odysseus]

E. Dane,

FYI...so, I was the guy in this situation two years ago. I had real issues in my marriage which my wife wouldn't deal with, and I met her. She seemed everything I always wanted, and she felt the same. I'd NEVER broken my marriage vows/cheated before. After five months of an affair, nearly continuous depression and angst for both of us, I broke it off because my wife got the therapy she needed and I couldn't stand the thought of leaving my kids. I broke her (the OW) heart, and mine. After TWO years, I'm still trying to heal from this thing.

It doesn't matter what his "situation" is, ...please please save yourself from this and walk away. I've been there....(broke NC last week because I actually saw her in person after almost two years, and just "had" to say hello and I'm going through yet more recovery). All this path is leading to is heartache and a headon crash with trust.

It doesn't matter what his situation is, or yours. The whole thing is wrong and this will seriously screw up your life if you keep taking things further. Respect yourself..respect his family....and may I say, respect God. I never want to see anyone go through what me and the OW went through.

I'm praying for your strength, and mine.

-O

 

p.s. I'd you'd met me before this, you'd have thought I was the pinnacle of strength and confidence. This has changed me and I'm humbled. I weep for those who may yet have to go through this.

[The_411]

Edane,

 

I'm going to clue you into this situation from a rational standpoint. 1) No one can "change your mind" You and you alone are responsible. With that in mind let me give some information.

 

1) 97.5 affairs don't make past two years.

2) of those 2.5 that do "make it" and get married 75 percent end in divorce.

 

Now for the subjective

 

1) There is a "handbook" for married men with single women. They say things to give the illusion that they want you but they're too tortured to make a decisions. The fact of the matter is that they don't want to make a decision.

2) Your relationship is so "ideal" because you guys don't have to deal with the realities of the world like kids, paying bills, dealing with in-laws, taxes and everything other possible responsibility issue that goes along with a monogamous relationship between two people.

3) Since he isn't being honest with his wife about seeing you how can you possibly take anything he says as truthful. Do you really think that if you two get together with his wife out of the picture that he won't just turn around and cheat with a woman on you?

 

Back to the "playbook". There isn't a real playbook but it seems like married guys operate like there is one. Married men usually target women with poor boundaries and low self-esteem.

 

They like to make you think that you're his world with things like there are three women in the world that I have ever loved.

 

They like to tell you that things are terrible at home and that you make them feel alive yada yada.

 

They like to make you feel like you fill an emotional gap like said.

 

It's all crap. They just want sex from you.

 

So the question is why is your self-esteem and self worth so low that you'd rather have a dishonorable and lying man who is screwing over another human being and treating her with such disdain rather than a man who will love you, love himself, and love other people.

 

He does not love he does not love his wife and he does not love himself.

 

There is no love here.

 

 

Yes I have been through it. My ex cheated on me with a married man. I found out and our relationship ended. However, I challenged her with the very same questions.

 

She did not love herself and has terrible self esteem which is very sad for an extremely attractive woman who is very intelligent, charming, and has loads of potential as a human being.

 

She will continue to go down this same road again and again until she is all alone and nobody finds her physically attractive or she chooses to get help and changes her behaviors.

 

You have the choice as you recognize that your situation is not right.

[E. Dane]

Try your DAMNDEST not to reply to this email. My OW replying to my texts and emails only prolong the feelings I have for this woman and fuels the confusion...

 

Take some time to reflect without contact.

 

Personally, I am dying to send my "friend" an "innocent" message tonight but know it won't help either of us heal or move forward. Thanks for the props on how ballsy you think I've been about this....I keep thinking I'm gonna screw up at some point though.

 

Well, I did reply to his e-mail after all. I said we need to act like the rational adults that we are (I almost want to laugh here) and figure this out. The "figure this out" part is what worries me about what I wrote. I feel like no contact is pretty much the only alternative right now, but doing it without even communicating him or coming to a consensus with him about it makes this so much friggin' harder.

 

Last time we met (the day of the kiss...) he had actually told his wife he was going to meet with me. I have actually met her a couple of times a while ago and he's told me he's had a conversation with her in which he talked about me. He obviously gave her the watered down version and she seemed to be ok with it, that we're just good friends. Wow, this is actually sickening.

 

I definitely don't need this drama in my life... and neither do they.

[E. Dane]

The_411, thanks for the facts. They are quite alarming.

 

You definitely hit the nail on the head in many points of your post, specially the ones in regards to my personal issues with myself.

 

It is just so hard to change my perception of this man. Even before anything started with him, I admired him so much and even looked up to him. It is really hard to admit that he just might not be that special...

[The_411]

E Dane,

 

You are welcome.

 

Here's another question? What do you think of John Edwards? He just admitted cheating on his wife while she had cancer.

 

While people make mistakes and deserve second chances the question is what do you believe in? Where does your moral compass lie?

 

It's isn't wrong that you admired him or felt he was an interesting person but when someone does something poor we as society tend to just sweep it under the rug.

 

Your admiration should have ended the second he made inappropriate advances towards you.

 

However, I know it's not that simple. There are men and women in this woman who were gifted with the innate ability to attract people, and manipulate them and there are those of us who for one reason or another ignore the red flags or abhorrent behavior because our need to feel desired, needed wanted, etc.

 

The married men that cheat do so because they can and they don't really care.

 

Unfortunately our society promotes the idea that true love should conquer.

 

Think about in movies when we see lead guy charm his way into a girl's life and the boyfriend is portrayed as clod, jerk, tool etc. Do we really ever see the girl say it's over to the old boyfriend? Nope all we see is how the girl sees that her boyfriend is a jerk and the new guy is amazing and is showing her real love and doesn't treat her like crap.

 

You may say that's ridiculous but if we're constantly hammered with that ideal that's how socially we are expected to behave.

 

Same thing goes with movies like the Notebook. The Notebook is supposed to be this great love story and yet adultery is almost made acceptable because the two main characters were in love. (P.S. don't revoke my man card my ex forced me to watch it.)

 

That is a misguided concept of love. People just want the bullcrap fantasy without dealing with the reprocussions. How come we don't see the anguish of the other guy?

 

Best advice I can give you is get healthy and find some one who will love you without lies and deceit and most of all learn to love yourself. You deserve better than a philanderer.

[BeStrongBeHappy]

His wife knows he's meeting you and she's 'OK with it'??

 

The other thing about married men who cheat is they lie, lie, lie. Do you think she'd be OK with the kiss? I sincerely doubt it, and suspect he told her he was going off to work, or that he was going off to play squash with someone named Fred.

 

Never EVER mistake charm with sincerity or honesty or character. The most charming men in the world are con ment. They learn how to use a web of lies and charm to position their victims where they want them, then pluck they like a chicken.

 

As an outsider, I see him leading you down the path, a little at a time. He gets you hooked on his charm, then he does the you're so special i've never felt this way thing, then he throws out the 'i can't do this to my wife and kid' card, then its the excited reunion where he not only kisses you but tells you his wife is 'OK' with it? Next will come a night of slow dancing or other activity that makes sex the next logical step. The he's in your pants, which has been his ONLY goal all along.

 

Let me tell you, NO WOMAN is OK with her husband 'dating' other women (especially when she has a newborn at home) unless they have an actively open marriage which they obviously don't.

 

Ask yourself, would you be OK with it?

 

Please don't be naive. See this for what it is, and remind yourself that 85% of what he tells you will be lies with the goal of some hot and easy adulterous sex for himself.

[healthseeker]

Why are you still letting this guy call all the shots? He calls or emails and you jump. It doesn't sound to me that either one of you want this to end. His poor little baby and her exhausted mommy.

[meinreallife]

Again I find myself shocked at how previous pain is translated into advice on this site. If you have been hurt, I am truly sorry for you. In E.Dane's case this guy does sound like a jerk. However, lumping all men who fall out of love with their wives for reasons none of you can possibly know is wrong. Yes, men can be pigs and at times we all are, but we also have the ability to love. My children are my life and I know what divorce can do to them. Can you even begin to understand the confusion that is in my life is at this point? My wife is a wonderful women who probably picked me for the wrong reasons and has been trying for years to make me someone I am not. I was insecure young man who thought that I was doing what I was suppose to do. When the OW came into my life I was shocked by how much of myself I had buried. Do I leave my life, not necessarily for the OW, but because I was asleep for years? Do I try to find love with my wife that may never have been? What about my kids? I have been married for twenty years. I know marriage, I have been through good and bad. These are questions that only I can answer.

 

Do not condemn a man before you know him.

 

E. Dane, I am sorry for using your thread to say what I had to say. Please don't assume any of us know what we are talking about. We are all just anonymous voices who have experienced pain and love, and we hope to give you advice. Again, even though I disagree with the words some use here - Leave this man. Find love without the pain and deceit.

[itsallgrand]

It is just so hard to change my perception of this man. Even before anything started with him, I admired him so much and even looked up to him. It is really hard to admit that he just might not be that special...

 

That makes sense.

 

It's the lies we tell ourselves that are the hardest to admit and deal with.

 

Other people - at least we have someone to feel angry at, to blame.

 

But when we build up fabrications in our own heads because we want them so much - and that's what I think a lot of people do, not because they are bad people, but because they do really want something so bad they will start to see it even when it isn't there -

 

when we build up our own fabrications of how things are, it's not easy to let go of that illusion to see the truth. But it can be LIBERATING too.

 

And it is so much easier to deal with on our own terms, than to have hard reality crush us in the face. On day finding out you have an STD, or having him push you out of his life when he gets bored, or or or....so many possibilities that would not be nice for you.

 

tc.

[BeStrongBeHappy]

meinreallife... why don't you start your own thread on being a married man having a midlife crises and infatuated with a woman he's only known a month.

 

and honestly, in the OP's case, i can find nothing redeeming about a guy who has a wife at home with a newborn going on 'dates' with another single girl and kissing her and playing the romance game. he's not some tortured soul, he's a cad.

[meinreallife]

I agree with the consensus about the guy that E.Dane is struggling with.

 

What upsets me is the immature advice that is given based on generalities.

 

BSBH, I am sorry that you were hurt.

 

Good luck.

[BeStrongBeHappy]

meinreallife... please read the forum guidelines...

 

i don't give 'immature' advice nor do most people on this forum. everyone is entitled to their own opinion and to give it freely. you should be commenting on the OP's topic, not commenting on other people's posts.

[healthseeker]

meinreallife,

 

I believe that men who are unhappy in their marriages should divorce before looking elsewhere...period. It is just staying true to vows and there is nothing immature about that...quite the contrary.

 

I think you are applying words to other's posts to appease your own guilt.

[TheSmilingTurnip]

Again I find myself shocked at how previous pain is translated into advice on this site.

 

Why that would be shocking is beyond me. Pain is an excellent teacher.

 

You go out with someone. They cheat. You try to forgive. You discover they're a serial cheater. Lesson learned: forgive but run away. Protect yourself.

 

You go out with someone. You feel like they're cheating but you brush it off. Later on you find out you were right. Lesson learned because of pain: trust your gut instincts.

 

And check out this saying: People don't change until the pain of staying the same outweighs the pain of change.

 

It makes sense that others have experienced pain, and they're using their experience and their learnings from that to try to help others.

 

Maybe you're hearing things here that you do not wish to hear.

[Aleadragonhawk]

However, lumping all men who fall out of love with their wives for reasons none of you can possibly know is wrong.

 

 

Meinreallife:

 

I think that a lot of the people on this board aren't against men who fall out of love with their wives. It happens, and it's sad and confusing, but I truly believe that if a man came on here and said "I'm no longer in love with my wife, what should I do?" he'd receive the same care and support as anyone else.

 

There's a difference, though. "I am not in love with my wife" does not equal up to, or in any way justify, cheating. If you do not love your wife or want to be in a relationship with her any longer, tell her. But going behind her back - falling in love with another woman - kissing her, hugging her, lying to her - all of these things are what the people on this thread and elsewhere rail against.

 

There are so many options if you're unhappy in your marriage. Cheating shouldn't be anywhere on the list. And if that's the path you choose, then be prepared for people to be judgmental - because generally, in our society, infidelity is frowned upon.

[The_411]

Meinlife,

 

I don't think anyone has a problem with anyone falling out of love with their wife.

 

However,

 

Confusion as an excuse is bunch of crap. You don't think anyone else is confused and has commitments like children etc?

 

You made the choice to condemn yourself.

 

You say the advice is immature? Well, what do you feel specifically is immature?

 

At what point do you take personal responsibility and stop blaming how you feel instead of manning up and either fixing things or leaving?

 

You made the choice to get in the marriage and you made the commitment. Now either suck up and work harder or end it. Your wife deserves the best from you, and if you can't give then stop being so selfish and give her the opportunity to be happy with someone who will love her.

[kyriel]

People are viewing the "married man" situation in black and white here. Pointing out that you should "get out" of your marriage before cheating fails to take into account those men (and women) who don't realize how unhappy they are until they find someone new. Do I think they should cheat? No. But there is a profound difference between people who have no real love at home and those who deliberately thrive on cheating relationships. Its sad to say that many of the symptoms of how E. Dane described her man puts him in the latter of those two, but I do agree with Meinlife that previous pain should not be used to so clearly justify certain pieces of advice. EVERY situation is different. Just because So and So did this to you 5 years ago doesn't mean that Such and Such will do the same thing to some other woman. Men and women can be weak and have attractions outside of their relationships. What they do with that attraction is a part of what defines their character. I think that giving advice with examples of past experiences can help shape a person's choices in these matters, but it is a form of projection to place yourself so blindly in another person's position. A cheater doesn't always cheat. And a faithful person, doesn't always stay faithful.

 

Stereotypes won't help E. Dane. But she sounds like she is dealing with this as best she can. Remember, everyone has been asking her to turn her back on a man she loves. That is never easy, no matter how practical a choice it may seem.

[meinreallife]

I fell out of love with my wife. I fell in love with someone else. My cheating was emotional. I recognized it was wrong and broke it off with the OW. I am trying desperately to find in my wife what I had in the past. I am trying to figure out all of this without destroying my children.

 

My complaints with this site is that there are some people that lump everyone into good or bad categories based on their own world views. I have no problem with advice given about individuals, however generalites should be avoided. Furthermore, the language is often vehement. I do not know if this comes from past pain endured, or from the personality of the individual. I in no way wish to minimize any grief someone has suffered at the hands of a loved one.

 

Immature is to say, suck it up or leave. You know only a fraction of a percent of what my life is and have already diagnosed and healed me.

 

Life IS complicated, not black and white, not stop or go, not fitting everyone into boxes, not judging based simply on your own hurt.

 

Geez. I am leaving this thread out of respect for E.Dane. Sorry all.

[TheSmilingTurnip]

lol She doesn't love him. She loves the 'idea' of him. She lusts after him. But this is not love.

 

There is no way to justify cheating. Sorry. I'm sorry that people are confused and sad, but get help for it. Don't go around destroying others in order to salve your own emotional wounds. That is selfish.

 

The OP is headed down a painful path should she continue with Mr. Cad. Everyone here is trying to spare her that if at all possible.

[Cadence_oO]

I'm sorry,I have to give my perspective here.

 

My husband (now separated) says he fell in love with the OW.

We have a daughter and were married for 3 years. He had an affair with her for a YEAR AND A HALF.

 

Now,I had spent a year and a half living in a lie.In a false marriage...where the entire time he was in love with someone else.

Broke the vows.

 

If only he had told me then in the beginning that he isn't happy,that he is falling for someone else...maybe we would go to therapy or worked it out.If he had resisited this before it grew into love we might be able to work things out.

Or we would have separated then and he could start his relationship with this girl then.

Him having an affair,having meetings with her,kissing her,sharing his life with her and then coming home to me pretending like nothing is going on HURT like hell!

 

You don't fall in love over night.It takes time to grow into it and in my opinion a man as well as a woman should know when to chalk a line.

 

Being intimate (in any way) with another woman while your wife is at home,loving you and waiting for you,and your kids are home,kids that look up to you is betrayal!

 

If it's serious,if you fall in love with another person,tell the wife!

I have lived for 6 months knowing about the affair and it tore me up inside.

 

I might be biased but I believe you need to hear how a cheated woman feels like!

 

In love with her or not,my husband has made a HUGE mistake by acting on those inital feelings and lying to me.

 

Every person has a choice.And the person that commited adultery has made the wrong one.Period.

[tangi39]

IMHO, why are you even looking if you are married ? And if indeed you are or even feel the need/desire to- That should be a clue that your marriage in not a very happy/satifying one.

If you are that unahppy, divorce is an option. There is no need to cheat and toy with people's affections when you have nothing to give them.

This isn't a man who just happened to fall in love and is going to leave his wife to start a relationship with the OP. The man is being judged because he has downright admitted he has no intention of leaving his wife and then proceeded to lead on, hold, and kiss the OP.

That is disrespectful to both women.

This is not something that "Just happened" that he is intending to put a stop to. People have posted according to the information E. Dane has given, not sterotypes. He said he is not going to leave his wife and was offering her an affair. Both women are being used and getting the short end of the stick. How is that in any way honorable ? Or love ?

This isn't a man who can offer her anything. We are telling her to leave to save her time but more importantly a lot of pain and suffering from a man who really does not seem to care about her.

We say it out of concern for her.

[JadedStar]

The fact that you are writing this in a post and contemplating it shows this would be a premediated act, even worse than getting caught up in a moment (even tho that is wrong too). It's hard to respect people who would even contemplate this. I know i am not wearing your shoes, but all i can say is don't do it. Think of who will get hurt.

 

For starters I suggest visiting the Infidelity forum and read many of the threads created there by people who were devastated and heartcrushed by this sort of thing. Puts it into better perspective reading their stories.

[JadedStar]

Don't apologize. The beauty of a forum is you are free to leave it. The replies that you see as vehement are because those people are respecting the people who might get cheated on. There is no way a person can create a thread on an open public forum full of many personalities and speak of cheating on a spouse or helping another person cheat on a spouse without invoking a lot of emotional response.

 

It is what it is and the mods will take out what is inappropriate. Everything else is fair game and the OP might take something away from the more "vehement" responses and it might help them see the reality of what they are contemplating.

[E. Dane]

E. Dane, I am sorry for using your thread to say what I had to say. Please don't assume any of us know what we are talking about. We are all just anonymous voices who have experienced pain and love, and we hope to give you advice. Again, even though I disagree with the words some use here - Leave this man. Find love without the pain and deceit.

 

I appreciate your posts and I do tend to agree with you a lot. As for the "vehemence" and "generalization" you mentioned, I also agree with you on those ones. But I try to call those "tough love" in my mind... I did choose to expose this matter in a public forum and never did I expect anyone to empathize with this story. Some people do have a little bit of a hurtful choice of words, though...

 

 

 

People are viewing the "married man" situation in black and white here. Pointing out that you should "get out" of your marriage before cheating fails to take into account those men (and women) who don't realize how unhappy they are until they find someone new. Do I think they should cheat? No. But there is a profound difference between people who have no real love at home and those who deliberately thrive on cheating relationships. Its sad to say that many of the symptoms of how E. Dane described her man puts him in the latter of those two, but I do agree with Meinlife that previous pain should not be used to so clearly justify certain pieces of advice. EVERY situation is different. Just because So and So did this to you 5 years ago doesn't mean that Such and Such will do the same thing to some other woman. Men and women can be weak and have attractions outside of their relationships. What they do with that attraction is a part of what defines their character. I think that giving advice with examples of past experiences can help shape a person's choices in these matters, but it is a form of projection to place yourself so blindly in another person's position. A cheater doesn't always cheat. And a faithful person, doesn't always stay faithful.

 

Stereotypes won't help E. Dane. But she sounds like she is dealing with this as best she can. Remember, everyone has been asking her to turn her back on a man she loves. That is never easy, no matter how practical a choice it may seem.

 

Thanks for not seeing everything in black or white... I find this to be a very helpful type of post. It seems like a lot of women on this forum have been cheated on and, for obvious reasons, see the OW as evil little witches who deserved to be punished... which translates into some of the advice given sounding like a test to make sure I am punishing myself enough. Believe me, staying in a situation like this is torture!! I do, honestly, appreciate all posts and I completely understand where everybody is coming from. But I do find it really hard to believe how I seem to be the only one who thinks this matter is just not that simple.

 

 

lol She doesn't love him. She loves the 'idea' of him. She lusts after him. But this is not love.

 

There is no way to justify cheating. Sorry. I'm sorry that people are confused and sad, but get help for it. Don't go around destroying others in order to salve your own emotional wounds. That is selfish.

 

The OP is headed down a painful path should she continue with Mr. Cad. Everyone here is trying to spare her that if at all possible.

 

Well, you never know, you might be right. But you just cannot be so sure. Yes, I lust after this incredibly attractive, charming man; that is undeniable. But it is not an absolute truth that I can't have true, deep feelings for him simply because I am physically attracted to him and due to the fact that he is married.

 

"Get help for it", hell yeah, you're damn right. But I am afraid that sometimes your choice of words minimizes really serious issues. Again, things are just not so simple. If they were, if things were so black and white and easy to forget, most posters who have been here a while would have no reason to come back.

 

But I do appreciate you saying that you're trying to spare me of pain and I can definitely see you doing that. Thanks

[TheSmilingTurnip]

Well, you never know, you might be right. But you just cannot be so sure. Yes, I lust after this incredibly attractive, charming man; that is undeniable. But it is not an absolute truth that I can't have true, deep feelings for him simply because I am physically attracted to him and due to the fact that he is married.

 

"Get help for it", hell yeah, you're damn right. But I am afraid that sometimes your choice of words minimizes really serious issues. Again, things are just not so simple. If they were, if things were so black and white and easy to forget, most posters who have been here a while would have no reason to come back.

 

But I do appreciate you saying that you're trying to spare me of pain and I can definitely see you doing that. Thanks

 

I know it is not easy to accept the truth. Maybe I am blunt. But years from now, when you're done with this situation, you will look back and see how simple it really was.

 

It's not minimizing the issue; it is simplifying it in order to help someone see their way out of a quandary. If a matter such as this one is so complicated that you can't find your way out, you have to find a way to make it simple so that you can figure out what actions to take. See what I mean?

 

When we make something so complicated and hairy, and our emotions certainly help with that, that confuses everything.

 

I don't think you should be punished, not by any means. When I give advice, I am pretty much giving it for the OP, not for the sake of someone else. You're the one here asking for help, so I consider it important that my advice is something that you may find helpful.That's why I try to keep it simple. When someone is confused, the best way to try and help is to boil down the issues to their simplest form.

 

As for the feelings: the reason I say that it's not love at this point is because you and he only have stolen moments together; you don't know him and he doesn't know you. You are in the infatuation stage, and this would be true even if you and he were two single people who were dating. It's part lust, part fantasy, part affection. But infatuation is something that can turn into love given time and nurturing. Do you see what I mean?

 

I'm not saying that *you're* salving your emotional wounds or whatever; that is what Mr. Cad is doing. He's just trying to suck you in too.

 

Good luck!