He's great, he's gorgeous... and he's married.

[tangi39]

Sweetie, please don't kid yourself. This is not a good man.

Granted, you cannot always help feelings, but you can control your actions- And he is not acting noble, good, or respectful in any way.

If he were as great a man as you believe him to be, he would not have met you privately, held your hand, or confessed feelings. That is cheating on his wife, just because it's not physical does not mean it's okay or that he's some wonderful "self sacrificing" hero.

He is using every classic cheaters line in the book. As another poster said, it's a cycle of lies and if you choose to believe them you'll only just keep getting sucked in over and over being hurt more and more every time.

Tell him to talk to you once he gets a divorce, then you'll very quickly see how "real" all these feelings are.

I mean, he claims he wants to "work on things" with his wife

when he's "Out on a date" with the women he's having an emotional affair with. I doubt you're his only prospect at the moment anyway, clearly this man is not very trustworthy. If he'll betray his wife and child, he'll betray you even faster.

Please don't put yourself through this. Consider this-

If you are this uncomfortable with his wife knowing things now, (and she should) imagine how awkward it will be if this escalated. Do you really want to help raise their child the rest of your life, especially one that will most likely resent you as he gets older ? There are very real profound consequences for your actions.

Start thinking about the realities involved here and stop being hung up on "feelings". Feelings come and go, but facts always remain.

[Girl79]

Stop seeing him NOW. He is playing mind games with you.. if he wants to work on things with his wife, what is he doing going on a "date" with you, holding your hand,confessing he fell in love with you! Wake up, he's playing you for a FOOL and you have fallen right into it! Now you say you are more in love with him than before! W T F? Before you know it, you'll be having sex with him and being another homewrecker. Leave this dude alone! Stop all contact. It's obvious you guys cannot just be "friends". Put yourself in his wife's shoes, how would you feel?

[PixelPusher]

I'm happy you seemed to have a good meeting, but I agree with the others that you're ALREADY helping him cheat. Cheating is not just about sex, and this relationship has emotional affair written ALL over it.

 

I think you're WAY too close and taken by him. It's only going to take ONE fight between he and his wife... he'll come to you sad and needing a "friend" and you're teetering so close to the edge that it'll only take a look and you'll go from emotional affair to physical in a blink of an eye.

[curiousofthat]

I think you said it yourself. You would have given in to him. He knows that..... And he's keeping you there.

If you don't stop now your going to end up alone and hurt. At some point you will be sitting at home alone and waiting while he's at home with his wife and his child.

After your "date" you went home, I assume to an empty bed.

When he went home, he went to bed with his wife.

I know in your mind, he was backing off. But from where I sit, he told you he was taking a step back...... but the holding hands... was giving you hope of more. He's saying one thing and doing another. Your setting youself up to be hurt. You know it deep down too. You might even think it will be worth it, but its not.

I mean, how many people on this thread told you, that you were doing the right thing.

[E. Dane]

Wow, I guess I have to agree with you all. I mean, if everyone has a different opinion than me, what are the odds that I am right...?

 

This is so weird. I usually have a pretty practical and reasonable way of thinking. I just can't get used to the idea of how blinded I might be! I also have a really hard time believe that he would be doing all this in a conscious level...

 

Anyway, I am on my way to a short trip out of state, so that should be a good way to try and settle on this issue.

 

Thank you guys so much for your responses... I really appreciate it

[curiousofthat]

I'm sorry if I sounded harsh at all. I don't know you and I don't know him. I just don't want to see you hurt. ya know

[tangi39]

I just can't get used to the idea of how blinded I might be! I also have a really hard time believe that he would be doing all this in a conscious level...

QUOTE]

 

That is exactly how men like this get away with affairs. They claim they

"can't control" themselves, that they don't want to hurt their SO/Spouse, try to convince you what a "great" and "honest" person they are, so you take their side and see it less as a conscious decision for him to cheat on the person he should love most.

But it is conscious. He is fully aware of what he is doing.

He's just trying to make it seem like he's less of a creep than he really is.

If he really cared about his family, he wouldn't be even discussing this with you. He would have diffused the situation, not encouraged it.

And if he really was madly in love with you, he'd be filing for divorce.

But I don't think either is the case.

The person he loves the most is himself, wanting love from both women while not having to give real love to either one. Which is incredibly selfish IMHO.

He's toying with your emotions and enjoying the ego trip it gives him, while trying to paint himself as this wonderful man who is in no way responsible for his own actions. He's getting exactly what he wants, a woman who is worshipping him who he has no obligation to and can drop or pick up whenever it's convienient.

What do you get out of this ?

As another poster said, He's going home and sleeping with his wife.

That says it all.

[KunFyoosed]

Hello E.Dane,

 

Firstly, I'd like to thank you and all the others on this forum for the insightful, thought-provoking, and carefully considered commentary. At first glance I thought this would be a topic filled with the man-hating opinions of women who have been on the receiving end and thus very one-sided. On second glance it has been very one-sided but I do get the feeling that most of the ideas are valid and not colored by bitter scorn. Ha, as I read back on that statement I can’t see how there could be any other side but I guess I’m still trying to hold onto the fleeting idea that I am a good person.

 

This thread contains so many parallels to the situation I currently find myself in. Not to hijack E.Dane’s topic, but I just want to say that I have used this discussion and applied it to my own torturous, confused process of self-inventory and introspection. You see, I am the married man. I have a beautiful wife of 9 years and two impossibly beautiful daughters. By all accounts we are happily married; some may have even expressed envy when they comment that we have a very progressive, beautiful, understanding marriage. We do not argue (much). We have sex (on occasion). But like other marriages, I guess we’ve fallen into the classical “rut” that I suppose most married people use as an excuse to help rationalize their straying.

 

I have only known my, um…, “other woman” for the past 5 weeks. We have not had sex but have been in a very EMOTIONAL relationship with actions just short of sex. We (naively?) thought the feelings we felt, bolstered by the fact we never had actual sex, validated the idea that we were soul mates. I don’t want to get too much into the how we met and the feelings and conversations we’ve shared; it would appear that my story isn’t that scary unique and has been retold a thousand times by others. I just want to say that I didn’t (at least consciously) set out to meet this person. It just “happened” (I’m sure all of the seasoned posters on this forum will beg to differ. For now I will call our meeting an accident as I continue to sort through my feelings).

 

In a, um, “noble” moment of strength I saw where this relationship was heading and out of respect to my family AND the other woman said we should stop seeing eachother in “that way”. The idea was that we could remain friends (this was week 2). She was heartbroken, but hey…at least we did it early. Imagine if this dragged out a year? We had a period of no contact (which embarrassingly lasted only 2 days) and jumped right back in when we thought we could have a friendly lunch. It again got heavy and we both knew where this was headed. Our times together were bittersweet because we knew cooler heads will eventually prevail, which did. We are now 2 weeks of no face to face contact and have broken down and texted each other and had some heartfelt phone conversations. These conversations never re-addressed our feelings; we were merely keeping tabs on each other under the guise that we can continue to care for eachother as friends. She also doesn’t allow herself to share her feelings with me as to not confuse the situation any longer (and out of respect for me and my family). I do know, however, that she still holds something for me and would make herself available should things not work out with my wife. I am sure, in time, she’ll meet some super cool dude that evokes the same emotions in her that I have. I'd honestly be happy for her, but admittedly, I will be sad and always think about how life would be if it were me.

 

I am now trying to reaffirm my love for my wife and move on but I have to admit it’s hard….painfully hard to have ended things with TOW. I’ve grown despondent and distant in many areas of my life: personally, professionally, and socially. The feelings I have for the other woman are so strong. However, the more I evaluate myself I’m wondering if my feelings are real or am I simply the narcissistic dishonorable cad that so many on this forum paint us men out to be? You know, the one who’s really doing all this for the self validation and the ego stroke? I am still of the opinion that my feelings for the other woman are genuine; I know hers are for me.

 

So E. Dane, do you believe you can remain friends with the married man? Or is this a naïve romantic notion that is impossible? I am wondering, the longer we go into no-contact mode, if I’m doomed to be relegated to a mere acquaintance or even a distant memory for my “other woman” (I hate calling her that but I guess there are no kinder ways to phrase it). I would like to remain her friend because she is just that cool. After all, our agreement not to hang out in “that way” anymore was presumably to ensure that we can remain friends. Please don’t tell me it’s impossible.

[BeStrongBeHappy]

The problem is as long as you leave the option open for this other woman to be your backup plan, you will never be fully committed to your wife.

 

Remember you are pitting a brand new shiny and exciting fantasy (other woman) against a well known and less exciting reality (a marriage). You say you are 'in love' with the other woman, but you've barely known her 5 weeks, and don't see her that much. So what you feel is a strong sexual energy (from the variety of a new woman) and a fantasy that is fueled by those brain chemicals and an EXPECTATION that she will be that perfect women, when you have no real way to evaluate whether that is true.

 

Affairs are fueled by fantasy, not reality. You have returned to that early dating excitement phase with this other woman, that is just a flood of brain chemistry that will die over time, just like it died with your wife.

 

So people having affairs have to really set aside reality and return to the adolescent state where excitement is interpreted as true love. You find this woman exciting, no doubt, but that is not love. You're just in a hormonal haze and awash in the thrill of a new conquest.

 

So there is no 'middle ground' when your dealing with affair partners (whether emotional affairs or physical ones). If you want your marriage to succeed, then you need to cut off all contact with the other woman, and recognize that that friendship has to be a road NOT travelled. Keep in mind that the world is full of exciting women you could feel this way about, and what makes a marriage last is recognizing that you are bored and want to trade your marriage for excitement. But once the excitement leaves, you'll be left with all the fallout from divorce, a woman you can't trust because you both cheated together, and feeling pretty stupid about it too. That is what usually happens.

[KunFyoosed]

If you want your marriage to succeed, then you need to cut off all contact with the other woman, and recognize that that friendship has to be a road NOT travelled. Keep in mind that the world is full of exciting women you could feel this way about, and what makes a marriage last is recognizing that you are bored and want to trade your marriage for excitement. But once the excitement leaves, you'll be left with all the fallout from divorce, a woman you can't trust because you both cheated together, and feeling pretty stupid about it too. That is what usually happens.

 

BeStrongBeHappy,

 

Thanks for the reply. Regarding not travelling the friendship road: that does paint a pretty bleak picture. At the risk invoking the ire of this forum let me begin by defending the other woman and her "cheating". She did not know, at first, that I was married, and I didn't readily volunteer that information until later. I'm sure I'll hear it from the other readers of this post; for what little its worth I'm NOT PROUD of how I cajoled her into this "relationship". I will DEFINITELY NOT do something so stupid and misleading again because I recognize the pain and head trips that I've caused the other woman (though I'm sure others will lump me into the once a cheater always a cheater, leopards don't change their spots category).

 

But back to the friendship road: let's assume the other woman finds a significant other that makes her feelings for me subside; this is inevitable. She's young, attractive, smart as heck, and will likely grow weary of the feelings she has for me. Then let's say, after some serious introspection, I recognize the folly of my ways and rededicate myself to maintaining a fruitful, loving relationship with my wife. We are now both in a state of normalcy. Even then we cannot have a friendly relationship? Is this an absolute?

The idealist in me would like to think I will be able to maintain a fulfilling friendship with this lady, not as a BACKUP, but as a friend. It's hard to buy into the idea that the human condition is such that I have to break off all contact with a person who I click with in so many ways. I am still of the mindset that we can remain friends...though it might take some healing time of no contact (um...a month maybe?).

Or am I just being stupid? Like E.Dane, my "other woman" seems to think we can have a friendship and I believe she's already in the process of resigning herself to the idea we can't be a couple.

[Batya33]

You can if she also becomes friends with your wife -- I don't think it's appropriate to have a close friend of the opposite sex, who you once had strong feelings for (meaning, in the not too distant future, not talking about high school), without your wife knowing about the friendship and being invited to get to know the woman and being comfortable with it.

 

forget about focusing on "the human condition" because that's just an excuse to avoid this specific situation where it seems highly unlikely that anything good can come out of being "friends" - as compared to the "bad"

[BeStrongBeHappy]

The world is full of people wiht whom you can be friends, mutual friends with you and your wife.

 

Why would you choose someone with whom you have this overwhelmng attraction and dangerous history? There's a certain arrogance and lack of common sense there, that you would choose someone who could potentially damage or destroy your marriage, and put friendship with her over protection of your marriage. '

 

Yes, one can be friends with anyone, but it would make more sense to choose friends who don't come with the problems this might bring into your life. Your self control may not be as great as you think it is, and you are playing with fire there, or perhaps deluding yourself.

[KunFyoosed]

There's a certain arrogance and lack of common sense there, that you would choose someone who could potentially damage or destroy your marriage, and put friendship with her over protection of your marriage. '

 

Yes, one can be friends with anyone, but it would make more sense to choose friends who don't come with the problems this might bring into your life. Your self control may not be as great as you think it is, and you are playing with fire there, or perhaps deluding yourself.

 

Agreed. This has been a difficult journey for me and I do appreciate your blunt and honest observations (and from you as well, Batya33). Painfully, I do recognize my arrogance, delusion and my lack of self control.

 

Going through these posts have been very cathartic for me. I am not happy with the self absorbed narcissistic man I've apparently become. I constantly waver between ending my marriage and working on it....but why? I will definitely need to break contact and not have my judgment clouded by this friendship. I'm sure I'll find the strength to do so...but it is rough.

 

The ending the marriage idea is definitely the worst option but I need to address why it would even be a consideration...perhaps the no-contact will provide clarity where I don't harbor these thoughts. I'm not a serial cheater and have never had to process these types of feelings before...I definitely don't like it. The pain I am inflicting on myself and all parties is not worth it (though having gone through it was pretty damn life-affirming and exhilirating....but I'm sure that's the narcissm talking).

 

Again, thanks for the insight. I am so glad I discovered this site...the advice dispensed by this community is invaluable. I hope someday I'm in a position to guide others....even if I am here as a current cheater

[meinreallife]

I am going to jump in here at risk of getting beat up some, but I need to reaffirm KunFyoosed a bit. I am the married man also. 20 years. I have other threads out there that explain in detail what I went through and currently am going through so I won't repeat it all here. Bottom line...emotions have nothing to do with smart decision making. You can be in love with the wrong person, that doesn't mean it's not love, and it does not mean that the man is a pig. I am trying desperately to work on my marriage. I am seeing a counselor. I went nine weeks NC when the OW walked into my office unexpectedly. Now I am trying to start again, but this time it's harder. I am now NC for 7 days. I have to do this for my family.

 

My advice to you E.Dane is to sever it. If he is like me, he honestly believes that you changed his life for the better and will not want it to end. Do it for yourself, there are single guys out there that are great too. Be brave, it hurts like hell.

[25thfloor]

healthseeker, i don't think the opinion i hold has anything to do with me being married or not...i have been married and in many relationships. if my partner is weak and stupid enough to jepordize our relationship, i hold him responsible...i don't care if he paid for the 'outside relationship' or had it with a co-worker. i wouldn't respect the other women if she knew what she was doing, but i don't hold her responsible.

[KunFyoosed]

I am trying desperately to work on my marriage. I am seeing a counselor. I went nine weeks NC when the OW walked into my office unexpectedly. Now I am trying to start again, but this time it's harder. I am now NC for 7 days. I have to do this for my family.

 

 

 

meinreallife,

 

I am still very much in the thick of this after having tried to be friends with the OW (in spite of others' advice). I don't believe I'm giving myself enough time to make a friendship work, though. My mind is constantly thinking of the possibility of a me and her even though our contact has been innocent enough (no real expressed emotions...but there are hints of them). But perhaps that's because we only a couple of weeks removed from the romance.

 

I haven't had the time to look at your posts on other threads but am curious to your story....have you tried to be friends with your OW? Was the nine weeks NC after the realization that you cannot possibly be friends? Because my current thinking is that I should really dedicate myself to a period of NC and then perhaps later.....MUCH LATER? a friendship may be possible. I anticipate if I get out of her life for an extended period of time she would be open to relationships with other men (thus reinforcing in both our heads that any possibility of us has come and gone).

[meinreallife]

KF and all...

 

I really believe there is no way to be just friends. There is too much there. The intimacy I experienced with her was incredible, but... well you all know...not part of the promises I made. It hurts! It sucks! But it is what I promised. Should I split with my wife of 20 years, devastate my kids? I can be honest here. I've considered it. My wife has cried at 3am about this and it breaks my heart. I don't want to hurt her. She is a wonderful women. And I love her. But I was young when I was married. Did I know what I was doing... Not at all! How many of you think you were wise in your early 20s? Was I in love then...yep. Are my kids the best thing that has ever happened in my life? YES!!! * * * do I do? I have no clue. This is the hardest part of my entire life. I will NOT be reduced to a simple cliche of "ego" or "mid life crisis". This is taking every single fiber of my life to figure out. I miss my friend every moment of every day.

 

...so...Can we be just friends? Not anymore. Someday I hope to be healthy and happy and not cry everyday in my car.

 

E.Dane. Break it off. Find someone who does not have this baggage. In my heart I wish you happiness and no pain.

 

KunFyoosed. Sorry, no great answers here, maybe just empathy - good luck and peace.

[KunFyoosed]

Thanks for that. Your response is what I feared and expected.

It sounds like you're having a hell of a time...I hope it gets better for you.

 

As for me, I am going to draft a closure email letting her know we should make a concerted effort to move on. My sending it will mark my first painful day of official no-contact.

[E. Dane]

Ok, so I just got back from my short vacations out of state. While I was away, I kept thinking of this guy, but in another way: I kept thinking that I was over him; that we could just be friends. I honestly thought I was completely over him. And, mind you, even though I could not stop thinking about him, I only thought of him in the friendliest of terms. Or at least I thought...

 

I know I am going to get completely bashed over this... but you can imagine what was the first thing I did as soon as I got back from my trip. Yes, I met with him. But the thing is, I thought it was going to be the friendliest of meetings, I thought we were on those terms, simply because I thought of myself (for some weird reason) as being over him. Distance does not always heal it. At least, in my case, I'm sure we would have needed well over just a week...

 

Anyway, I'll just cut to the chase (and this is mainly in response to KunFyoosed): we kissed. I don't know how, I don't know when, but we kissed. As soon as we started reassuring our friendship, how we could get over this as adults, we effin' kiss!! It felt great and there was much conversation involved afterwards... but life is not made solely of great moments and I have no idea how I am going to feel about this tomorrow morning. Right now I feel ok, but I know that I shouldn't. I have no idea...

 

I thought for a moment that I had been blowing things way out of proportion, but when I saw him leaning against that light pole tonight, and after the hug he gave me, I started melting all over again. I have no idea what he'll say tomorrow.

 

F***!!!

 

KunFyoosed, it looks like common sense really is... common sense, I guess. I thought that after tonight I would be able to tell a story about 2 grown up people who managed to get over a certain feeling and started behaving like adults and not gave in to temptation... but no. Our thing is definitely snow balling into a bad direction.

 

Not saying that all stories will be the same, but I feel like I should share mine...

 

I am very disappointed at myself.

[curiousofthat]

looks like you've made your choice.

sadly this road will most likely lead to hurt. Even if he leaves his wife.

You'll have to support him though a divorce and the family he's left behind.

And if your lucky he won't do the same to you with the next girl.

I feel for his wife that is carrying his child. This is the most life changing thing she is going through and more than anything he should be home with her.

Good luck with everything. I hope it works out for you.

[Batya33]

I would cut out the guilt trip you wrote about at the end since it's obvious you're not going to react to your shame by cutting off contact. It's a waste of time and will make you feel like you're doing something productive by "feeling guilty" when in reality it's just consistent with your decision to do what you feel like at the moment without thinking of consequences for you or his wife and children. I know you didn't ask for judgments - I am reacting to your judgment about yourself.

 

And your passivity about the kiss "just happening" is not going to help you in your decisions going forward - the more you chalk it up to "just happening" the less you're going to be motivated to do anything about it. It was totally in your control (just like him taking vows and increasing his family was totally in his control) and remains totally in your control what you do going forward.

 

I agree with the previous poster.

[bluerose231]

Sorry but I dont have anything nice to say to you at this point. You came here asking for advice and got lots of responses on what you should do which was to leave the guy alone! You know he's married and you know he has a baby at home. He is completely using you whether you want see it or not. It sounds from what you said in previous posts that he has no intentions of leaving his wife for you. You are basically his mistress; his temporary escape from the stress of the real world. What you're doing is just plain wrong. Eventually his wife will find out and he'll go running back to her begging her not to leave him. You will be made out to be the bad guy in all of this and he will turn on you. Either that or if by some tiny chance he does leave his wife (which I wouldn't hold my breath), or she finds out about his affair and leaves him then he WILL do the same thing to you. I think you can pretty much count on that.

[BeStrongBeHappy]

Go back are re-read everything people have already told you on this thread... they predicted this would happen, right?

 

He's your garden variety bored and skeevy married man who will continue to act noble and tortured while trying to get into your pants. every time you get too close, he'll declare he can't do it because he's married. and when you step away, he'll draw you back in.

 

He wants to keep things at a nice sexy simmer, where he's totally in control, enjoying the excitement, but you are not actually threatening his marriage. So when things get too hot and you might expect him to leave his wife, he'll cool it off. And when things cool off and he's not getting enough excitement, he'll turn on the heat again.

 

There's the phrase 'There's a sucker born every minute...' You're falling for this whole married man/affair nonsense, and being a sucker here.

 

Find someone who is available, and not a rat who will be off dining with and kissing other women while his wife is at home exhausted from caring for his newborn child. Don't you see how skeevy and low class this guy is?

 

Another good expression: 'You lie down with dogs and you get fleas.' You are tarnishing yourself and infesting yourself with his own lack of morals. Find someone worthy of you, not just some married guy with charm and no scruples.

[Girl79]

Wow I hope you are prepared for the disaster that is bound to happen. Why can't you find your own man? Why do you need to move in on someone else's? Why do you feel the need to date a married cheating pig? Good luck.

[greensleeves]

Maybe you should try to look at this situation from the point of view of his wife and child. Sometimes putting yourself in another person's shoes can provide you with more clarity and help you to do the right thing. Do you really want to hold part of the responsibility for damaging a family and a child? It may end up being a short fling for you, but the long term ramifications to his family will go much deeper and last much longer. You know what you should do, so just do it.