I love him BUT...

[Batya33]

Thanks for your concern Allie, and for everybody else's. I'm wondering, what is it in my posts that you guys see that makes you think this guy is a bad person??? I've never posted anything bad of him, just that he hasn't sent me pictures. I'm sure he's not married, nor has kids, nor is some psycho or online predator. I can tell and I feel it when I speak to him that he is a very sincere and trustworthy person.

But for everyone's sake, I am going to tell someone about this. I have a very good friend that is living in the country where I'm going to study abroad. He's an adult figure in my life whom I'm very comfortable with and before meeting this guy, I will tell him about him. Even though it's not necessary, but JUST IN CASE, you never know right?

 

The most scary thing I read - and it reads unfortunately like those stories you read about on line scary people/predators is that you can "tell and feel" he is sincere. You can't - because you've never met him in person and because even more so - he is desperately trying to hide who he is from you by hiding what he looks like. That would be fine if you had no plans to meet him - if you were just chat buddies - but it makes no sense to trust someone and agree to meet him in person when he refuses to let you see his face. It's not "the only thing is he won't let me see a picture" - it is huge, his reasons for not showing you a picture are even more indicative of instability and shadiness on his part and, well, just reread the thread if you need more , it's all there.

 

 

He may not be a bad person - he may just be a very unstable person whose illness is untreated and thereforeee he lies to get young women hooked and agreeing to meet him in person.

 

And how again are you sure he is unattached, etc? Have you run a background check on him from a reputable company? Do you have his full name, his home phone number, his address, his work address, and have all been confirmed?

 

If he won't show you a picture and continues to make up excuses and you won't do a background check I would not meet him no matter what. If you do meet him please bring the friend with you to the meeting. And don't leave your coffee or drink unattended.

[CallingAllAngels]

You asked me my concerns...

 

Batya summed them up perfectly for me.

 

I STRONGLY ADVISE AGAINST MEETING THIS MAN IN PERSON. THERE ARE TOO MANY RED FLAGS.

 

PLEASE...read this thread...again. And again. And especially Batya's post above.

 

Understand...anyone can be anyone they want from the comfort of their home...from behind a computer screen...from behind a cellphone.

 

Yes, he could be married and still talk to you.

Yes, he could be 20 years older than you and still talk to you on the cell phone.

Yes he could be a sexual predator and wait a whole year for you.

Don't you know they are the most patient kind??

 

Please don't meet him alone.

 

Your story really makes the hair on the back of my neck stand up. I wish it didn't, but it does.

 

I'm all about safety. I'm NOT against meeting people on line. I'm not. But you gotta do it the right way.

 

Post again please.

 

~Allie

[annie24]

Thanks for your concern Allie, and for everybody else's. I'm wondering, what is it in my posts that you guys see that makes you think this guy is a bad person??? I've never posted anything bad of him, just that he hasn't sent me pictures. I'm sure he's not married, nor has kids, nor is some psycho or online predator. I can tell and I feel it when I speak to him that he is a very sincere and trustworthy person.

But for everyone's sake, I am going to tell someone about this. I have a very good friend that is living in the country where I'm going to study abroad. He's an adult figure in my life whom I'm very comfortable with and before meeting this guy, I will tell him about him. Even though it's not necessary, but JUST IN CASE, you never know right?

 

personally, i think you should tell your parents.

 

the things in your posts that make us have red flags.... first off, the fact that he hasn't ever gotten a webcam to show himself to you. but you've shown yourself to him a million times. i have met many men online, and i know the genuine ones, even if they are very shy, send me a photo. the ones that have not posted a photo, etc.... i later found out they were married!

 

i just read another post here on enotalone. a woman was seeing a man 3-4 times a week, he introduced her to all his friends.... and it turns out that he was married with a baby at home!!!! i mean, if he could hide that from her, a woman he saw frequently and introduced his friends to, then i'm sure this guy is hiding a lot more from you.

 

have you actually called up his work to see if indeed he works there? hm?

[Maya_A]

But for everyone's sake, I am going to tell someone about this. I have a very good friend that is living in the country where I'm going to study abroad. He's an adult figure in my life whom I'm very comfortable with and before meeting this guy, I will tell him about him. Even though it's not necessary, but JUST IN CASE, you never know right?

 

Yay That's a great & smart move Bebe.... I’m really so glad you decided that.

 

I'm wondering, what is it in my posts that you guys see that makes you think this guy is a bad person??? I've never posted anything bad of him, just that he hasn't sent me pictures.

 

It was as the story unfolded more, it was more than just not sending pictures. It was your calling him by the wrong name without him correcting for a longish while, the vague or "common" name when he did give it (many hiding identity do this), being untraceable at work, & also traveling a lot for work makes for easy excuses for certain things you might want to verify as well. Being vague about living arrangements (living with roommates leaves room for "excuses" in areas if necessary too), the sneaky constant "changing subject tactics" (this shows a mind-set), the fact that the relationship was kept secret from everyone. I know you said this was your decision but one can be "primed" in ways of seeing things & think it was their own idea. I’m not saying you were specifically – only that it is fairly easy for an experienced person to do this with someone.

 

On top of it all, was that he expected you to meet up with him & go on a vacation with him, knowing so, so little about him… When I’ve only been merely emailing men & it is time for the 1st phone call they always take my feelings of safety into account & offer their number, & mention to me that I can always block my call info. if I need to call them back.

 

In other words, they do everything to make sure that I feel safe. He seems to want to do little to assure you of the truth regarding what he is telling you about himself. He could do a lot more, even apart from sending a photo. So the fact that he is purposely not offering much in this area seems suspicious. It also means that you know so little about him for certain. I know you believe he is genuine. I'm only saying that what you know as fact, from actually having concrete proof, aside from your feeling about his honesty is not there. And again, he could make that area better for you but doesn't. This is saying yet something else about him.

 

And scary is that whenever some tragic incident does occur where a woman has been kidnapped or worse, when the communication is traced back, it often has many of the same signs that your situation does…. So for me, those were some of the reasons I have been worried for you… It has been a cumulative effect of everything altogether.... You also mentioned that all of this discussion had made you think of other small things from the past that he did, that made you uneasy.

 

Batya also said something really important. When meeting anyone new for the first time, never leave your food or drink unattended, not even for a moment. Really important.

 

But again, I’m so glad you are thinking more deeply about all of this & will take some the precaution in telling someone… Really, really good thinking Bebe..

[Aleadragonhawk]

 

the things in your posts that make us have red flags.... first off, the fact that he hasn't ever gotten a webcam to show himself to you. but you've shown yourself to him a million times. i have met many men online, and i know the genuine ones, even if they are very shy, send me a photo. the ones that have not posted a photo, etc.... i later found out they were married!

 

From my personal experience, I wouldn't trust or settle for a photograph - those are incredibly easy to fake. I have a close friend who spent two years mooning over a woman online. She wouldn't send pictures and he thought she was just very shy. After he pushed enough she finally sent him a photo. One day he googled her very distinctive name and found a myspace without pictures (but in her area) from a male, and found another webpage that included multiple photographs of "her" in a hindu ceremony. He freaked out and told me and my husband - we went looking through various usernames of hers that we knew and confirmed that she was male by finding a picture of the same man that she'd posted five years back.

 

Insist on a webcam. They're much harder to fake. Skype is free to get, easy to use, and allows you to talk and use webcam at the same time. A webcam is twenty dollars. You know that he can afford it - after all, he affords travel and gifts to you.

[annie24]

good point. i absolutely agree about insisting on a webcam.

 

but that he doesn't even include a photo is more worrying! when she gets off the airplane at the airport, how the hell is she supposed to know who he is?!?!!? she just has to walk up to strange men and ask, 'are you my boyfriend?'

[Batya33]

A webcam isn't necessary if you decide to email a few times, speak on the phone a few times and meet for coffee in a public place asap. If he is lying about his looks he either will refuse to meet or will meet and the most you have done is wasted the time getting to the coffee place (and then you can leave in 15 minutes or less - make an excuse - because liars don't deserve your time).

 

The problems come in when people cyberchat with people over long periods of time in a dating/romantic context without having a firm plan to meet and continuing to cyberchat after all the excuses of why no photo.

 

One of my married friends did not post a picture on the dating site - in 2000, neither did she - they met within a week or so of contact and liked what they saw. I agree these days there is no real excuse not to post or send a photo and that triggers shadiness.

[lila...]

Ok well one of the reasons we’ve never met is because we’ve always lived in different countries. If we lived in the same city for sure we would have met up for coffee at least. He has already offered to come to my city as soon as he has vacations. I’ll have to see how that adds up though because I have other plans and things to arrange. If we don’t meet here though, we will meet some time later in the year. He’s very determined to meet me. If it hasn’t happened already is because of what I said, different countries and vacation/work time conflicts.

Don’t worry, before physically meeting him, I’m going to insist with the webcam. Like Annie said, I have to know what he looks like in order to recognize him.

 

Hmm I was thinking, just in case he isn’t who he is saying to be and turns out he is a liar, what questions can I ask him now to make it give away he is a liar? What if I tell him something like, “I’m going to tell my mom about you so she can know I have a boyfriend and it's something serious..." If he was some predator, wouldn’t he flinch? Or maybe I can tell him I already told my mom about him and that my mom doesn’t want me to meet him, and see how he reacts?

[annie24]

well, first of all, did you call him at work? because if he is who he says he is, then the secretary who answers at work should be able to direct your call. if he isn't who he says he is, the secretary won't know what you are talking about. that's the very first thing i would do.

[Batya33]

By doing a background check done by a reputable company after confirming that you have his real first name, last name, home address and work address. That's the only way.

 

Please don't tell me that you would actually meet someone in person where you would doubt that he was telling you the truth about basic facts about him.

 

My point about meeting was that it is not the best course to cyberchat with someone in another country who won't be straight with you about basic facts about himself and then plan on meeting him in person.

[annie24]

by the way, all sorts of interesting information you can find out when you call the secretary at work. a friend of mine called her bf at work, and the secretary said, 'no - he is out of town, he is vacationing with his gf.' apparently, there was another woman all along! that didn't surprise me at all, my friend's descriptions of her bf made him definitely sound like he had something shady going on, but i don't think she was quite smart/sharp enough to pick up on it.

[lila...]

No I would never meet someone in person if I had a doubt about whether he was telling me the truth or not, you see, before I posted all of this, I didn't have doubts at all. I thought the reason for him not sending me pictures or webcam was because of his insecurities. And maybe it is. But now after reading all of this I'm beginning to have doubts, you guys are right in some things. But then again you don't know him like I do. I've talked to him on the phone. I'm pretty sure he works in the Company he has told me. But ok some time during the week I'll try to call, just to confirm.

[Batya33]

I think you believed him because you are not knowledgeable enough about safety precautions when meeting someone in person from the Internet - going by your "instinct" based on typing and talking to a faceless stranger is not sufficient especially when you obviously are attached to this person and want to meet him - then of course you're going to make all sorts of excuses.

 

Calling his company is fine - but not sufficient. Most background checks don't cost more than $100. But for that you need his real full name and where he lives -- are you sure you have that?

[lila...]

He doesn't have a fixed address. I know the city he is in, but he's only there temporarily until the project is done. I do have his full name. By the way he's talked to me a lot about his family, I know about his brothers, his parents, some of his friends, a true genuine person wouldn't do this, and don't say "you don't know for sure he is telling the truth", because the anecdotes and things he's told me are from someone who has experienced and lived them. Anyway, in case I do decide to do a background check, how would I go about doing this? I only have his full name and DOB considering they're all true.

[annie24]

He doesn't have a fixed address. I know the city he is in, but he's only there temporarily until the project is done. I do have his full name. By the way he's talked to me a lot about his family, I know about his brothers, his parents, some of his friends, a true genuine person wouldn't do this, and don't say "you don't know for sure he is telling the truth", because the anecdotes and things he's told me are from someone who has experienced and lived them. Anyway, in case I do decide to do a background check, how would I go about doing this? I only have his full name and DOB considering they're all true.

 

all hearsay...... how do you KNOW he has talked to his family about you? have you met them? talked on the phone with them?

 

and EVERYONE has a permanent address. and a background check would show up all the addresses one has lived in for the last 10 years, so his current address would show up.

 

call him at work, see what happens.

[metrogirl]

I'm glad to see that you are finally coming around (a little).

 

Can I just point out it could be easy for him to sound convincing "because the anecdotes and things he's told me are from someone who has experienced and lived them" are probably things that he has practiced over and over with you and probably several other girls. In order for predators to be successful they have to master their intial plan. If they continue to repeat the same things over and over, they are going to sound sincere.

 

I'm not trying to rain on your parade, I'm just trying to help the others help you.

 

May I add that I ran this by my 22 year old daughter, gave her the basic info and she found red flags all around and she hasn't had some of the experiences that the rest of us older folks here have had. Even SHE thinks your guy is a fraud.

[desert_rose26]

Does he have your home phonenumber? IF so, be really careful and don't get him angry or offend him. He may have your home address..all he has to do is a reverse number lookup.

 

link removed - Reverse Number Lookup

link removed - Background Check

[Maya_A]

Hmm I was thinking, just in case he isn’t who he is saying to be and turns out he is a liar, what questions can I ask him now to make it give away he is a liar? What if I tell him something like, “I’m going to tell my mom about you so she can know I have a boyfriend and it's something serious..." If he was some predator, wouldn’t he flinch?

 

It's not a bad idea at all to let him know that you are thinking about letting your mom know about your & his relationship. Tell him that it has been going on for so long & you are growing weary of holding it in for so much time & can't see any reason not to share it with your mom. That you've changed your mind & think she will understand after all. See if he tries to talk you out of it...

 

Also, yes, back to the work thing. Call where he says he works... Let him know that you want to speak with him there when you call that number. If he gives an excuse (that he'll be traveling & not in let's say) - just say that you want his work number for future reference. Tell him it would be strange for two people dating to withhold such basic information. Pay careful attention to how he reacts to that as well. For instance, does he try to make you feel guilty for not trusting him? This is predicable (is why I am mentioning it before it might happen) & would be a very bad sign... Does he change the subject like he likes to do? Does he make up an excuse as to why you can't call? Watch for all of these things...

 

Finally - tell him you want proof of his home address - the one where he stays with roommates & emails/chats with you from. That you want to mail him something by post (don't tell him what - he will have to tell you what it is meaning that he'd have to tell you the right address to have received it)....

 

It's time to really call him out on things that he is being strangely evasive about -- there are too many...

 

If he reacts poorly to these things or evades them like he is the pictures, you can know he is lying. If you really want to know beyond just trusting his word Bebe, try out some of those things.... It will tell you a lot...

 

You’re a very smart young lady in life it seems & you will really want to be extra smart about this situation….

[RayKay]

I am glad you seem to be being a little more aware, and the others have given you VERY good reasons why you should be aware.

 

Look, I could tell you many anecdotal stories of women I know whom truly believed the people they were chatting with were sincere, honest and everything they said they were. I have already told you a couple of them. And they believed it for weeks, months, even years....and then found out the people they were talking to were just really good at coming accross as sincere, honest and single, decent and all that....but they were in actuality either married, or much much older, or entirely different in person, or abusive & manipulative......or any combination. You have NOTHING to base his "sincerity and honesty" on other than what HE tells you. That's it. Not what you experience with him, see and so on.

 

The very fact that he cannot at MINIMUM provide a picture is just what IS so alarming. After a year there is just NO reason, whatsoever, that someone whom is into you and interested in you cannot send you a picture (though as others said, it is not "proof" as it can be doctored or stolen - a webcam would be more suitable at this point). It is the EASIEST thing in the world for him to do....to someone whom has asked..and he hasn't. Yet he is okay asking you over and over again. You should NOT need to PRESSURE him to give you one. That is just wrong all in itself and it should not FEEL like pressure to ask him for one to either him OR you.

 

I have done a lot of online dating in my past, and I would NEVER meet someone without a picture at minimum; and given I always met someone within a couple weeks I always was given one quickly. I don't care HOW insecure someone is...they are hiding something if they won't provide a picture to someone they claim to "care" about and whom they intend to meet. The very fact he avoids the topic and plays "diversion" is just screaming "liar" if not far worse at me.

 

People really CAN be anyone on the internet - it just takes the right "evidence", and the right person to come along for them to get away with it.

[CallingAllAngels]

He doesn't have a fixed address. I know the city he is in, but he's only there temporarily until the project is done. I do have his full name. By the way he's talked to me a lot about his family, I know about his brothers, his parents, some of his friends, a true genuine person wouldn't do this, and don't say "you don't know for sure he is telling the truth", because the anecdotes and things he's told me are from someone who has experienced and lived them. Anyway, in case I do decide to do a background check, how would I go about doing this? I only have his full name and DOB considering they're all true.

 

 

Bebe -

 

Everyone has a fixed address. They lay their head somewhere at night. They have somewhere they get their mail.

 

You know what city he's in, but that is temporary? RED FLAG.

 

What do you know about his family? People, espeically preditors can make up whatever they want. They are dangerous.

 

Ever seen Dateline's "To Catch A Preditor"?

 

I'm gonna come right out and, woman to woman, say DON'T meet this guy.

 

I would like to know how much information he knows about you.

 

Does he know your last name?

Your DOB?

Where you live?

 

Please let me know...

 

~Allie

[Batya33]

Allie - i was also thinking about that same show. Her description reads exactly like that show.

[CallingAllAngels]

Allie - i was also thinking about that same show. Her description reads exactly like that show.

 

Batya...

 

I think a line has been crossed that, no matter who she shows this to, or what type of back ground check gets done, she should not meet this man.

 

Predators of this nature (and I have done MUCH reading on this) are incredibly patient. Wait a year? NO...they will wait LONGER than that for their prey. They wait two years, three years. They do. What do I have to gain by telling you this Bebe other than YOUR BEST INTEREST???

 

I don't want to have to see you on the news.

 

Please, bebe...DON'T MEET THIS MAN.

 

He's a fantasy. If he was all that "great", why would he spend a whole year behind a computer screen with you. Don't tell me he's shy. NO ONE IS THAT SHY.

 

I SEE REG FLAGS EVERYWHERE.

 

I hope other posters besides Bayta and myself will encourage her to discontinue this.

 

Please...

 

Bebe...post again.

 

~Allie

[Batya33]

Just to be clear - I don't think she should meet him either but if she cannot be convinced of that at least the background check would help some....

[CallingAllAngels]

Agreed in the sense that we cannot control what she does...if she insists, AT THE VERY LEAST get the background check, AND AT THE VERY LEAST, BRING SOMEONE WITH HER, along with TELLING SOMEONE WHERE SHE IS GONNA BE!!!!!

 

I still stand by my therory that she should not meet, but again, can't control what others are gonna do....

[Maya_A]

Allie wrote:

 

I hope other posters besides Bayta and myself will encourage her to discontinue this.

 

Please..

 

 

Just FYI for your peace of mind... Throughout this entire thread, we all have been encouraging her not to meet up with him, over & over Allie... Thing is, she has been adamant about it despite, & adamant about not telling her parents... So this is the reason alternates are being discussed.

 

In the end, she has agreed to tell a trusted adult she knows & seems to be thinking more deeply on the whole thing... That is the really great thing...

 

Yes, first choice is not to go at all of course... Maybe if she can see that he is lying by calling him on very specific things (she has asked for ways to do this & hopefully with follow it through) it might help call the whole thing off entirely in the end...

 

I don't want to see her get her heart broken on the one hand (finding out a sad truth), but infinitely most important is her safety & life of course!