anydaynow

I really think distance can really make or break a relationship. Unfortunately, it sounds like it has broken yours. I think you should completely break up instead of taking a break. Maybe he's trying to soften the blow. Honestly, why would he care if he lost someone he didn't "click" w/? It may be true that he will still want to be with you when school starts up again, but the fact that he gets to "take a break" is definitely not fair to you. You really don't want to get into a cycle of taking breaks and resuming the relationship, or breaking up and getting back together again. If you are to be his girlfriend, than you should be for the duration of the relationship, not just when it is convenient for him! I've seen relationships where breaking up and making up occurs very often. This guy will start a fight, they'll break up, he can do what he pleases for some time, and then come back with roses to be in the relationship again. Do not let this happen to you. This guy I'm talking about plans this stuff!! Camping trip with buddies coincides w/ girlfriend's birthday? Yup, he broke up w/ her. On her birthday. To go camping w/ his buddies. Just after the weekend was over, he was back on her doorstep, and she took him back. He knew she would.

It would be interesting to know the age of the person and their vote. For people that have not gotten to marriage yet, I bet the vote would be their current age +1 or +2. (Maybe +1 if they are in a relationship and +2 if the are not...) Like RayKay, my ideal has changed over the years. I agree that waiting for the right person is so much more important that getting married by a certain age.

So glad things are working out! I wanted to chime in and say how hard it is to see other people getting married left and right when you've been ready and waiting (and waiting...), but circumstances really hold you back. Like your fiance, I'm in waiting mode (except I'm still a g.f., not a fiance) and it sucks to feel left behind. I completely agree that it would be stupid to throw away a perfectly good relationship because of a bit of a timing difference. Just make sure you stick to the plan- a year or two. Remember that when the time comes, you will probably still feel like you need more money, or need to do this or that before you get hitched. I think it will always feel like that (barring a lottery winning or something!) From the way things sound, it would not be a dealbreaker if it went out longer than that, but the relationship could get very stressful if you change the time-frame on her! Good luck!

I used to have major issues falling asleep for the same reasons- thinking of things that had to be done the next day, etc. Do you have a regular waking schedule? Besides the obvious (limiting caffeine, activity, too-exciting-tv right before bed, etc) here are a few things you can try: Before you go to bed, make a short list to think about or do the next morning. For me, it helps to get them out on paper. When it's out on paper, it isn't in my head anymore! (Keep it short or you'll be up all night making the list!) Make sure your bed/bedroom is the conducive to sleep. The room shouldn't be to hot, your bed and pillow should be comfortable. If it isn't comfortable, it will take you longer to fall asleep, and if it takes you longer, you are more likely to let your mind wander... you know what happens then- you can't shut it off! Imagine something relaxing. I like to imagine I'm laying on top of a giant bubble. You know, like a soap bubble kids blow. Except it isn't wet or soapy... Anyway, I imagine the bubble sinks in like a hammock where I lay on it, and it just floats about the air... It's silly, but it is also boring, so it keep my mind from filling up with other things that might make me anxious. Try listening to ambient music made to help you fall asleep. My bf got me a CD that contains one 1-hour track of this strange ambient music. He thinks it is creepy sounding, but I swear I never hear more than 5 minutes of it, because it really puts me to sleep! If there is something (or someone) that comforts you, keep it (or him/her) handy. My bf had a hard time believing that I had difficulty falling asleep, because when I am at his place, I'm out as soon as my head hits the pillow! Good Luck!

Hmm. I would say you should force yourself to wake up at a reasonable time, the same time, each morning. Your body will have to self-adjust, and I think it will by getting tired earlier. I just revamped my "usual" sleep/wake times quite effectively. I was a 2 hour snoozer, and getting up later would cause be to stay up later. Quite the vicious cycle! But stopped cold turkey 11 days ago, and haven't hit the snooze button since... It was only a couple hours for me, and you've described a bigger change, but I think the same principles apply.

If they say they are ready to settle down, but then give those kinds of excuses and break up, I would guess that they don't think they are with the right person yet. Just because you want to settle down doesn't mean you have found the right person to settle down with yet.

Maybe the affair continued for so long because she was able to keep it up because you were willing to. I don't want to make you feel bad for being part of this relationship. I know and agree that affairs are wrong, but I also think that the heart wants what the heart wants. I'm not sure why, but I feel like it was up to her, being the one that was already in a relationship, to end the affair. I guess in the end, ultimately, there are two people in the relationship and both are responsible for continuing it. I think you did the right thing trying to end this, and if what you had with her was special to you, and you think it is worth trying to work out, than go ahead if she is willing to. You've definitely have serious work ahead of you to overcome trust issues, though. Good luck, and keep us updated.

Sorry for your situation. My current boyfriend spent a 2 years being "the other man" in a triangle. I think it was really hard for him to deal with, being secondary, having to share, and most of all, the secrecy of it all. Anyway, this was when he was in high school, and he is nearing 30 now, so the feelings have run their course and I don't think he is damaged by it. But it must have sucked to have to sit back and watch his sort-of girlfriend and her "real" boyfriend go to prom while he sat alone at home. Back to your question... I think it is possible, but in a relationship with just the two of you, it will take a lot of work to deal with trust issues.

Hi, it's the poster who was tired of waiting! You are right, two people can love each other and not get married and still be happy. I know someone who just does not believe in marriage as a religious or civil institution. She is very dear to me and has a wonderful relationship with her partner. I do not think any less of her because of her views on marriage or because she was living with her partner and unmarried. Likewise, she does not think I am crazy for wanting to be married before I do certain things. Like merging finances, living together, and having children. A piece of paper will not change our relationship. I don't need marriage to think that our commitment to one another is solid. But I wanted to do things in a certain order out of respect for my parents beliefs. This was the only reason at first, but they have now become my own beliefs. I do think it is silly that some people think that getting married will fundamentally change a relationship- i.e. make participants of the relationship more committed to each other. It really is personal preference. But it is true that there are legal differences between married couples and unmarried. My friend that does not believe in marriage actually ended up getting married. It has not changed her relationship at all, but they had to deal with societal conventions, including the inability to be covered under her partner's healthcare plan until they were married.

Thanks everyone for your responses. I appreciate them all. It's so nice that so many people here care to put their word in. What a great community. My boyfriend and I are in a good place right now, eagerly anticipating our future together while also enjoying the present. We both realized things that we would not have (or at least not as soon) if not for your insight and support. Thanks again, everyone!

I think hiscoldfeet may be a little to optimistic and it doesn't address the issues of relationships that aren't going to work, marriage or not. It's basically saying, if there is tension around this issue, it may be completely normal. Key word - may. I really do believe that my situation will work out. We have just had another talk about this. Yes, after I promised him and myself I would not bring it up! But we had the conversation because he brought it up. He said he really thinks that we are good together, we are a good team, and he knows if issues should ever come up, like this one, we can work on them and figure it out, just like we've been able to in the past. I told him I didn't want to force him into anything because 1) nobody likes being forced into doing something and 2) I don't want to end up with a ring on my finger if it is only because I would not shut up about it! He told me, at this point, it's going to be hard to surprise me, which he semi-wanted to do. (I say semi, because how surprised could a gal be if her beau of 8 years finally proposed?!) Which is true, and this is why I must keep quiet about it and let it come naturally. He admitted that it has been too long. But he now realizes that what he is waiting for is 1) hard to define and 2) likely may never occur. And so he will not wait for that anymore. So why not right this minute? Because of the stress in our relationship that it has caused lately. We both don't want for this, when it finally happens, to be born out of a situation laced with negativity. I know it's going to happen, and I'm okay with waiting a little longer for it.

aymee_lee- Thanks for your post. This is more the kind of stuff I expected to see here. But I know posting here, you have to assume everyone will fill in the gaps you left the way they want to. I really believe he will come through with this. It was agreed on that we would not get engaged while I was in school. That was the first 4 years. Then it was agreed by both that it would not happen for at least ~3 years, because he was working on his career. The tension has really only been for the last year. We talk about it a lot, and we started to talk about it too much, which only exacerbated the situation. I think it's time for me to back off. I know he will do this, he just needs to do it on his own terms. People think I'm settling by waiting, but I'm not. I'd be settling if I decided to be with someone else.

I think we are getting a little too far deep into analysis of what my boyfriend's emotional availabilities and capabilities are. It feels a little ridiculous to have to explain him to a bunch of strangers, but I guess things can get carried away in forums and I should really have expected this, since there is no way for you to know how emotionally available he is. I am sure he is very emotionally available. Plus, I've seen plenty of emotionally unavailble guys get married. And they end up divorced. Emotional availability and marriage can occur exclusively of each other. Which is to say (like in my case) that emotional availability can still occur while marriage has not yet occurred. And, not to toot my own horn, but whose to say that I'm not that pretty young thing that he wants! (Because I am, FYI!)

not to worry, you haven't scared me away. I do feel a little like you are ganging up on me, but I know this is not the intention. I assume everyone is here to share experiences, give advice and support. You are all doing a wonderful job. I know I sound completely desperate, totally out of options, ready to call it quits in earlier posts. This is why forums are hard, because nobody knows the entire story. I can be a drama queen sometimes. Honestly, in comes in waves, one day I'll be okay with waiting, and one day I can't wait! I think that might be apparent in my previous posts. The fact is, we do both want to get married. He loves to talk about it when I'm not in nagging mode, actually. (Lately, it's all be nagging mode, which is why it's been a problem) I think the main issue I've been able to hammer out here is that he thinks there is a right time, and I do not. As for the career taking a lifetime to build and such.... It's much easier to say he is working on his career, because it tends to sound more concrete than "he is working on his self-worth." This sounds very very abstract, but, like I said before, it is a job in the field, or schooling in the field. Those are more concrete things. When he has that, he will be ready. And, yes, he knows what field that is. Of the first 2-3 years of this waiting (that started after I finished school) it was an issue of figuring out what that field was. Now it is an issue of getting into the field. It's hard to compare this to things like buying a house. Condos in decent locations where I live easily go for 800K. I'm living rent free. It makes more sense for me to save up. I think someone asked about how long I was in school. It was the first 4 years of the relationship. You guys are hitting the nail on the head though, about him needing to realize that, like kids, it's just a plunge you take. We've talked about the house and the money and have decided kids are something we want pretty soon after getting married (w/in 1 year), regardless of our financial situation. We are great budgeters and very resourceful and know we will be able to handle it. He just needs to start thinking the same way about marriage. He recognizes that he has a hard time making decisions, and is working on "satisficing." Meaning, taking the satisfactory option is okay. While I don't think people should satisfice much in who they want to be with, they can in other areas. I sometimes think that marriage is compromising on the what, when, where, and how because both are unwilling to compromise on who. Satisficing is okay for choosing an entree or a pair of jeans. And it sounds stupid, but that is stuff he is working on! Seriously, guys, even though I'm hearing a lot of advice I will not take, I really do appreciate everyones input. Another thing my boyfriend has taught me- try not to be so defensive (I'm still working on this, as you can see) and take things in stride.

Well, an agreement at one point can turn at another. We did agree at 4 years that it would be 3-4 years before he might be set with a career. After about two years, he said "well, maybe I don't need to be set with the career, maybe I can just be on a pretty sure path to one." So he's slowly letting his expectations of where he needs to be before we get married change. We are getting closer and closer. The closer you get, the harder it is to wait, it seems! It's like missing a passing score by 20 points- oh well, you totally missed it. Missing by 1 point? Killer. Nobody can tell the future, which of course is the big issue here. Nobody knows that in x years when RayKay's schooling is done if they really will get engaged. Of course, if you ask RayKay, she will tell you they are 100% committed and for sure they will get married. That is what I was saying 2 years ago, 4 years ago, 6 years ago. And after much thought, I'll still say it. I know it seems I am saying different things if you read through all my posts here. I posted here because my darling bf was sick of hearing it, which was understandable. But I was also sick of waiting, undoubtly, also understandable. I don't think it is fair to say that he values career over me. I didn't want to marry him when we knew 2 years into it because of my career. He patiently waited. When he decided that he wasn't happy with his, I owed it to him to give him a chance to get that settled, like he did for me, right? Ask him and he'll tell you that if there is one thing he is sure about, it is me. I think Batya is right on in saying that my problem is I sometimes don't want to accept his reasons. Who wants to accept any reason after 8 years? But he accepted these reasons from me earlier, and now I should accept them from him. I hope I don't sound too defensive. I can't help but be a little seeing as how I've decided to stick around against nearly everyone's advice here. But, seriously, keep it coming. I was on your side (this is ridiculous, I have to leave) for a while and feeling that I need to refute it now is very telling. I know you are trying to give me the best advice, and advice can only be so good with the bits of information I can provide. Everything I've said here is such a small fraction of the last 8 years, and an even smaller fraction of the next 60-70, depending on how long we both live...

We are definitely together for the right reasons. And the marriage and committment before actually doing it, I think is there. That is why it is frustrating that we aren't going through with it yet. RayKays reason "because of school" is just as valid as his "because I need to sort out my career." Our friends even say "oh, you guys are practically married." Which is funny because we live 3 hours away from each other. Yet our relationship functions as a marriage would. Marriage for both of us means merging lives completely, and we are both ready to do so. Neither one of us sees a fundamental change in levels of commitment to each other because of marriage. We want the same things in the future. Living together and having children before marriage is not something that we want to do. I am not against it, I have plenty of friends that have children and live with their boyfriends. I don't think any less of them because they are not married, but it is not something that we personally want to pursue until we are married. This is the whole thing with the "buying the cow" or whatever the statement is. Those guys that are living w/ their girlfriends and already have kids do not need to "buy the cow." My boyfriend wants very much to get married and have children (him more than me, did I already say that?), but it is really hard for him to get past the fact that everyone in my immediate and extend family have major overacheiving issues and great success in careers. All my many cousins and their spouses have extremely lucrative careers. I myself am making more money now than I thought would be possible at this point in my career. He felt inadequate because he does not make money, and it took him a while to get over this. Now he needs to get over the fact that his dream career, the one he will be passionate about, might need to play second fiddle to me. That isn't very fair, but that is what everyone here is saying.

Oh, money isn't a issue. We both believe in marriage first before sharing anything financially (except the occasional meal or weekend away). We both know each other's financial histories and credit scores and such. We really are getting our homework done, so when the time comes to merge monies and buy things together (and we believe all things that were 2 become only 1), there will be no surprises.

I have a friend who has been in a relationship for 2-3 years now. He treats her terribly and has even told her that he will not marry her. She wants to be married. He is emotional abusive. We all tell her to leave, but she won't listen. I don't want to be her. If I asked all my friends whether I should stay or go, they'd say "Are you crazy? Stay! He is the nicest guy ever, and you love each other, what's a wait compared to getting the kind of guy you were meant to be with?" This is true. I can't imagine anyone more perfect for me. We respect each other. We don't squabble over small things or try to control each other. We've have helped one another become better people. He's taught me how to admit fault & apologize, and clean up a bit (like, not be so messy), I've taught him to stand up for himself and take chances. We've shared interests with each other and explored new interests together. He's just a good guy, you know, the kind of guy every girl's mother loves. And the spark is still there after 8 years. So here's the deal. We had a major conversation about this over the weekend, and, like I said, we talked it out and I realized later there was nothing conclusive. I needed something concrete. My e-mail: I just need to know that I am not wrong in staying in this relationship and waiting for the next step... I don't need to know when it is going to happen, I just need to know that it will happen in some reasonable time frame. Okay. That is is. I swear if I can get a straight answer out of you (which I don't think I've gotten), I let this issue rest! His response: You are not wrong in staying in this relationship. The next step will happen soon; let's figure out how we want to do it. I'm sorry; I was feeling down for a while, and I questioned our relationship- in that order. I'm confident you and I will be able to do anything we want once we're together. I really believe he means this and isn't just saying this to appease me. We have talked about this issue often, but this is the only time he's actually said that it would be soon. (I know you are all rolling your eyes!) I think I'm a logical person and I'm surprised that my situation has resulted in someone suggesting that I read "He's just not into you." (Not that I think that is bad advice for some people. Maybe my friend in the abusive relationship needs to read that one.) But when I think about it, I would probably also tell me that I am being naive. I've recently discovered link removed. So there's a name for the last couple years of my relationship. Pre-engagement limbo. Those are exactly the symptoms we are experiencing right now, and hopefully, soon, we will be past them. Thanks everyone for all of your input. It really helped me realize some things, and I might not be taking the advice it seems you are all suggesting, but I am appreciative all the same. Hopefully I can come back to this thread in the near future with some good news...

More behind the career thing, you say? Yes. The career thing is what he leans on because of... issues. He dreads social functions because he doesn't want people to ask "what do you do?" He wants to have his own small business, so there is no employer to appease here by getting married. When I ask him about this stuff, he just gets down on himself. "I don't know what I'm doing. I don't have enough friends. I don't do cool things." Then we get into talking about his problems instead of why we can't get married. So... I haven't flat out said, "you need to do this now, or I'm leaving." Because he probably will, and then be unhappy because he was forced to do it. I don't want to force him to do it. He wants to do it on his own terms. Even I want him to do it on his own terms. (haha, I just want his terms to be soon!) Anyway, it sounds like everyone says I should leave because he's not gonna do it. So what now? "Alright, I've been hounding you for the last year now. I can't wait anymore. So goodbye." I can't give him some kind of timeline, but I don't feel like I should just cut him off right now, right away. Should I say, okay, I'll shut up about the issue for x months, so he can feel like he is doing it on his own terms. And after x months, throw him the "I can't wait anymore, goodbye" line?

I wanted to wait until I was done with school, hence no proposal at two year mark. I told him early in the relationship that I did not want to get engaged if I was not going to be planning a wedding right away. At the time, I had a lot of friends who felt that engagement was some higher level of dating. We both agreeed that engagement means you are planning to get married very shortly. Hence, no proposal until he really has things lined up so we can get married quickly following proposal. We have talked about me proposing to him, and he says he would just feel so emasculated. He is okay with me being the breadwinner and him staying home to care for the children (this is what we'd prefer) but he draws the line and me proposing and presenting him with a mens diamond engagement watch or whatever it is the they do these days. I know it seems like I am rebutting everyones comments with excuses and such, but I'm so attached to this relationship. I really want to find a way for this to work. No one suggests I get over my urges to get marriedso soon and hang out for a while? Let him do his thing? Oh, man, you all think I'm stupid, don't you...

Hmmm. Consequences for prolonging things- the longer he waits, the older he will be when we finally have kids (this is important to him, in fact, I think he wants kids more than I do right now), the more he has to wait until we can see each other on a more frequent basis. (Oh, I'm trying to keep this on topic and superficial, but now I must explain that the last few years have been a mini-LDR- 3 hr drive, so it's weekends only. And he works retail, so his days off are fri/sat, and mine are sat/sun. So we get in about 40-44 hours between fri. evening and sun. am.) The career thing- it's certainly not for lack of trying. He said he was thinking seriously about proposal in January, because he thought he would be going to school that spring, and in his mind, that made him worthy enough to move on with me. In fact, I even remember him asking me my ring size. But school plans fell through. Right now he has a volunteer gig related to the field he squeezes into one of his days off. Am I just making excuses for him at this point? I really do want this to work out... I said to him last night, "look, the reason I keep bugging you about it is because if it isn't going to happen, I need to know, so I can move on." And, the funny thing is, we keep just kept talking and then.... I can't even tell you now if we ever got a concrete response. Does that make sense? I'm just realizing now that I try to have the conversations so I can clear things up, but I get excuses, not answers! Hmm, I'll e-mail him and try to get a conclusive recap of his response...

The first 4 years- Yes, we talked about it. We were probably both completely sure about it after 2 years. I know it sounds like a lame excuse, this career thing, and I see why people ask why he can't work on it while we are engaged/married. But the career thing is some type of superficial manifestation of his feelings of lack of self-worth. So it isn't really that he's got to get this career going, it's that he needs to fix his self-worth problem, and apparently, the career will do that...

I am 27 and he is 28. Annie- I actually had a conversation with him that basically said, the long way, what you suggested. His response was "yes, I want to get married to you. I need to fix this issue (career) about myself first." So it was inconclusive, really, because he's been needing to fix this issue with himself for the last 4 years. I can't even tell you how many times we've had this same conversation now. There is no way for him to hammer out some kind of timeline for his career issue, so there is no way for me to know whether I will be posting in 2012 "I've been with my boyfriend for 14 years now..." I know that sounds ridiculous, but I thought we'd be getting hitched after I graduated. And then 1 year turned into 4... How can I possibly draw a line? On the other hand, how can I wait forever?

My boyfriend and I have been together for 8 years now. We both know we want to get married to each other, and have known for years now. The first 4 years, I was in school. The last 4 years, I've been waiting for him to get on the ball! I am ready to get married and he feels like he needs to get his act together before we can do this. He is working towards his dream career, but it is taking forever! I feel like I've reached some type of breaking point lately. I love him but I am so sick of waiting! He needs this career for himself- so he can feel that his is worth something on his own- before he marries me. I will be the main breadwinner, so he needs this to satisfy his own feelings of self worth! I've told him over and over again that it doesn't matter what he does! Also, I know there is no way for you all to understand this, but I promise I am not delusional about how he feels about me or that we want the same things. He is getting sick of me hounding him, and I'm getting very sad waiting to get on with my life! Any advice or help is sooo appreciated. I'm at wits end!