RescueDiver

90% of your job is already taken care of buddy. She's leaning her head on your shoulder, and you been stroking her hair and kissed her on the forehead. It sounds like she's ready for you to kiss her on the lips. Don't think about it too much, just do it. Trust me, if you start trying to plan it you're going to get so nervous you won't do it. The worst thing that could possibly happen is that she'll turn her head to the side and let you plant one on her cheek. But... I think she's waiting for that first real kiss so go get her. I was in a similar situation not too long ago with a gal I was dating. I was pretty certain it was okay, but there just weren't any good opporutnities while we were sitting on the couch watching tv or movies so I know how frustrating it can be. It wasn't until we spent the night together (sleeping) that it happened. When we laid down in her bed I just pulled her in close and kissed her on the lips. So, that may be all you have to do here... just pull her in close and kiss her. All you're needing is a little encouragement... boy if I had people cheering me on like you do here... I could've done a lot better in college (dating-wise). Back then all we had was the usenet newsgroup alt.love, etc...

There's only been one time I've really done a rebound relationship. It *seemed* to work as far as getting my thoughts off of my ex at the time. But, it was also a very hollow and lifeless relationship. I haven't done it since because I have a hard time finding anyone else interesting or attractive enough to date much less get into a relationship with and I also feel bad *using* someone as a rebound cushion.

Hi Ray Kay thanks for posting your insights, they were greatly appreciated. I know I probably should have stepped out when she mentioned the issues with her ex- but the thing was I was already emotionally invested and at that point, I knew it was going to hurt either way. Plus, it looked like I might have a shot in spite of everything. Towards the end of the week before she made her final decision things seemed to swing into my favor. Without going into too much detail she started talking about how much she missed me, started using the kiss emoticon again in our online conversations, and had resumed talking about doing stuff together in the future (instead of just saying "maybe"). However then all of the sudden she backed way off on talking and stuff a day or so later... and then the announcement came down a couple days after that. So I'm thinking they might've slept together or otherwise been intimate. That's the only thing I can think of to explain the sudden 180 she did. I did talk briefly with her last night about the whole conversation with this guy and she said that she has "locked down" both her work computer and her home computer so unless he does some heavy duty hacking (which I doubt) her e-mail and messenger history should be private once again. Her take on this guy's behavior boiled down to insecurity. I suppose that's understandable considering she's 6 years older and an inch taller. I could have e-mailed the entire conversation to her, but didn't because I don't want to start a "he said / I said" war. When I responded to the e-mail she sent me last Wednesday about her decision I told her that I understood her decision and told her that if things didn't work out with this guy to give me a call and maybe we could give it another shot (I told her I wasn't going to wait however). I'm sure she knows I care about her and I've already made it clear that she's welcome to call me anytime if she really needs someone to talk to (or needs help... I am a firefighter after all). I don't think speaking ill of this guy is going to help my cause any even if what I say is true (whether he reads it or not). Every time I've done that it's blown up in my face. Anyway, everyone I've told about this has basically said that it's not going to last. I feel that way too, but I don't know how long it's going to take. Every other time I've been in this situation the relationship that I've been dumped for has gone down in flames eventually. When I was talking to her a couple of weeks ago she said that while the drug thing wasn't the only issue leading to the break-up, it was by far the most severe. So, who knows... he could relapse, or maybe these other issues will get on her nerves more now since the drug issue isn't overshadowing them anymore. My Lieutenant thinks it'll only be a month but my feeling is that it's probably going to take quite a while. I know it was a difficult decision for her so I imagine she's going to do everything she can to see it through because she made a pretty big sacrifice (a future with a wonderful guy like me ) to give this other guy a second chance. She's also never really mentioned any "abuse" by this guy (other than when he blew up at her at work). So maybe he's not really a bad guy... just underhanded.

Thought I'd share a little update... the Brad guy I spoke of started messaging me Sunday night saying that I'm supposed to leave Jen alone. I don't really know why he felt he needed to do that since I hadn't called or e-mailed her since she made her announcement. Anyway, after a very enlightening 3 hour "discussion" I got a pretty good idea of what this guy is like and all I can say is wow... what a piece of work. He is the epitome of over-competitive, insecure, controlling, borderline psycho/schizo. I did feel a little bit better after the conversation because I realized that if she really wants to be with a guy like that... well, we probably wouldn't have gotten along anyway because I would actually treat her right. Surprisingly enough the next day Jen e-mailed me and apologized for him doing that.

Spend less time planning and more time doing. The more you try to plan this out the more ways it can go awry on you. I dunno, I like the lunchroom idea better.

Find a new crowd to hang out with. You shouldn't be friends with people that are making you feel like garbage. Then you won't have to hate anyone.

It means call her up, find out when she's not doing anything and bring a movie to watch. Go hang out and chat... maybe you'll end up staying up the whole night and talking... which I guarantee you is a lot more rewarding than sex.

Yes it's natural to have doubts from time to time. Every person I've ever been in love with I've had doubts about at one point or another. But those doubts generally go away and I end up wondering to myself "why was I worrying about that?" If it's a persistent doubt then maybe you need to talk to your partner about it.

No, you're not worrying for no reason, I learned a pretty hard lesson this past week that ex's can be a threat for a lot longer than you think. You need to be real careful because if his ex- comes back to him wanting to get back together... it may be really really hard for him to turn her away. Simply because getting back what was taken away from you at one point can prove to be irresistible. The gal I was recently dating went back to her ex- after they had been broken up for 6 months. She broke up with him back in April because he had a drug problem and she couldn't start a family with someone that did that so she presented him with a choice between her and the drugs and he chose the drugs. Well, a short time ago (after she and I were already dating) he told her he wanted a second chance... and ditched the drugs. So after spending two weeks trying to decide between the two of us she went back to him even though she liked me a lot too. Anyway, like in your case, these two maintained a friendship over those past six months (they also work at the same company). Plus the she never really talked about this guy much either so I assumed she was over him. So when this all went down it caught me completely by surprise. If you want to read the whole thread : All I can say is be careful.

Stick with the new girl. Trust me things will not be the same if you go back to your old girlfriend. The attraction to what's comfortable can be overpowering but you've been there once... there's a chance this new gal could make you just as happy if not happier than your old girlfriend.

Definitely ask her out... the worst thing that can happen is she says "no". You're already through the toughest part and that's getting her to talk to you.

Alright bud, going to give you some advice that I wish someone had given me when I was your age. First it sounds like you're obsessed with her already... that's not good. Talk like "I want to have her" is likewise baaad. You can't be in love with someone you've never really talked to. Trust me on that one. Plus love is a fickle thing when you're as young as you are. You need to get your feelings in check or you're just going to get hurt. Don't let your interest in someone turn into an obsession before you go up and talk to them. That's just setting yourself up for failure. Reason being is because if you let it progress that far you're going to be 10x more nervous and it's going to hurt 10x more if it doesn't work out the way you want it to. If you catch it early and think hey, she's pretty interesting, it's less of a deal to just go up and talk to her and it's likewise less of a deal if she shoots you down. Second, yes you can just randomly go up and say "hi"... of course you have to be able to have a conversation with her. Basically it goes like this... if she's in the lunch room sitting alone, you walk up say "hi, (insert name here if you know it), may I join you?" Then sit down and start talking (and listening) to her. If you know of any shared interests start out with those. Otherwise, you know she does judo, so ask her about that, what got her interested in that. If things seem like they're going well, see if she'd like to get together after school or something. Now, if you really want to go for the gusto and you think you have the confidence to pull it off... even if she's with her friends go up to the group and say "hi ladies, mind if I join you?" Chances are they're not going to say "no". If they do, don't worry about it, you can always come up with a plan "B" later. Then once you're there just introduce yourself to everyone and start getting to know all of them. If they're her friends you're going to have to get to know them sooner or later anyway. Then the next time you see her in the lunch room it shouldn't be too big a thing to go up to her. Plus by then you might have more to talk about. If you don't think you can do it on your own, get your buddy to go with you. If you can do the asking though it'll make you look better than if you're just riding in on your buddy's coat tails. Learn how to do this now... trust me, it doesn't get any easier as you get older. Just remember, all you're doing right now is getting to know her, it's not like you're asking her to marry you so just keep the conversation light. It's also not the end of the world if this doesn't work. Don't get down on yourself about it and don't get discouraged. Approaching and meeting women is not an exact science. You're going to have a lot of failures before you get the hang of it, but like I said, it's best to start learning now.

Well the questions you're asking require the telling of more back story... I don't think I meant that my profession turns women off in general... just her and heres the reason. Jen's first fiance' died on her. By died, I mean that she found him dead at home one evening when she came home from work. He died from complications of diabetes (I imagine his blood sugar went critically low and he died). So basically she's afraid of having a chief's car show up in front of her house with bad news. What woman isn't afraid of that to some extent, but because she tragically lost once fiance' already... well, you get the idea. Anyway, on her divorce what happened is basically her husband put a gun to her head and threatened to kill her (after a heated argument) so she was out the door. Anyway I don't know the precise timing as to how long she and her husband were separated before Brad came along. Like I mentioned I didn't really think Brad was a threat because of the time frame between their breakup and my arrival so I never really asked to many probing questions about it. I figured the full story of that relationship would come out in due time. I also don't think she flaked out on Brad at all... I think telling someone to get off the weed or get lost is perfectly reasonable.

I have a story to share with everyone... I'm not sure if I'm looking for advice so much as to vent. On the other hand maybe it'll help someone else avoid a similar mess. Here's my story: I met this gal Jen through link removed about two months ago. When we got to talking about dating Jen expressed some reservations about me because I'm a full-time firefighter. Anyway, I ask her if she thinks it best we just go our separate ways so that no one gets hurt she says that because she's really enjoyed our conversations that she'd like to remain friends and still talk. Two days later Jen is lamenting about a failed date she had just had (the guy had a problem with her religious beliefs). Then she brings up that her 32nd birthday is coming up in a few days (I'm younger by 5 months). She says that she's bummed because she has no-one to share her birthday with. I half-jokingly ask her if she'd like to go out for dinner the night of her birthday. She asks me if I'm serious and I tell her I am. She accepts and thanks me for being so sweet. Well, Jen and I have a wonderful birthday dinner, go back to her home and watch a couple of movies. After that we talk until 4:30 PM the next day (crashing out for a couple of hours around 6AM). I can't think of another time that's happened to me. Jen too seemed pleased that we could talk "forever." The next day while Jen and I are talking about how much we enjoyed each other's company she finds out about this car-related event at the end of the. She invites me along on it and I accept thinking "how cool is this! Someone that likes cars as much as me." That Friday she hosts a wine-tasting party. Unfortunately due to the short-notice I'm not able to get the day off of work. However, later on that weekend Jen invites me to go shopping with her at a local outlet mall. Well, we have a great time and end up having a very nice dinner as well. By the close of that date I'm beginning to think that Jen might be interested in being more than friends (reading body language and so forth). So, we have a discussion about my job and she reveals that she is getting more comfortable with it. So, I ask her if she would like to do something the next weekend. She says yes. That weekend she makes a wonderful dinner (I do the dishes), then we go off to the magic show and have a great time. Afterward we watch a movie and spend the night together cuddled up in each others arms (no sex, but we did share our first kiss). That week we plan a mid-week dinner because both of us are busy the following weekend, so once again we go out and have a great time. Two weeks later we head out for the car-event and I end up spending most of the day holding her trying to keep her warm (she'd forgotten her jacket). Anyway, after that we go back to her house and watch another movie and chat. Around eleven she says that I need to go because she has to get up early to have breakfast with a friend and then deliver the wine from the wine-tasting party. I'm a little disappointed that I don't get to spend the night but I kiss her goodbye and depart. The next day we plan a couple more dates. We plan a mid-week dinner date because we're both going to be busy the following weekend, and then we plan to for her to come out to my place in two weeks for a hockey game. By now I'm obviously developing feelings for Jen so I ask her if she's okay with us being more than friends. She says she likes where we're at, but stipulates that she's not looking for a commitment yet. Later on that week, in fact the morning of the dinner date Jen tells me she needs to cancel our dates. When I ask why, she says it's because she has some "crap" she needs to sort out. She asks me for time to get stuff figured out. I tell her that's fine. Well, I discuss what happened with a couple of my lady friends and they both ask me if there's another guy involved. I tell them that I don't think so, but I decide to confront Jen about it anyway. As it turns out there is an issue. Basically what happened is after I started showing an interest in her an ex-boyfriend and her ex-husband suddenly decide they want to get back together. Well, about a week goes by and Jen and I are still talking and having some really good conversations. Some conversations don't go so well because I obviously get inquisitive as to how her "process" is going. Well, during one such conversation she tells me that she as basically dealt with everyone but me and her ex-boyfriend "Brad" who works at the same company as she does. She says she doesn't know what to do about us because she likes me a lot obviously, but still has feelings (and a lot of time and emotion invested in Brad). She also mentions that she knows where Brad stands as far as religion, children, and so forth. She also is concerned about the distance between us. We discuss these things and find out we are on the same page with them. Before I can continue my story I need to shed a little light on the back story between Jen and Brad. They dated after Jen became separated from her husband (but prior to the finalization of their divorce). Jen's divorce wasn't finalized until just prior to our third date which is why I didn't push things at first. Anyway, Jen admitted that she loved Brad very much. Brad as it turns out is taking some sort of medication (I don't know for what) that has some pretty nasty side-effects. The story goes on that his doctor supposedly told him (off the record) that Marijuana would ease the side-effects. So, Brad picked up a pot habit. Well, Jen being 32 and all is obviously looking to start a family and doesn't want to do that with someone who is into drugs. So, she tells Brad that he has a choice between the drugs and her. Much to her surprise he picks the drugs. So, even though she is shattered by this, she breaks up with him. They decide to remain friends however to keep things from getting weird at work. Here's where things get sticky. Apparently at the wine-tasting party a lot of people were coming up to her and asking her (excitedly) how dinner went with the firefighter. Well, Brad (who was at this party) caught wind of some of these conversations. Anyway, the following Monday at work he goes ballistic… saying lots of really nasty things about her. I only know this because she called me that night and told me. I asked Jen if maybe Brad thought the two of them were getting back together at some point. She said "no" that they had rehashed this all before and she didn't know why after six months this was all coming up again. Well, what I didn't find out until just recently is that after Brad's blow-up, he came out and said that he was giving up the drugs and wanted another chance with her. Once I heard that (and heard that she had been very much in love with him) I didn't hold much hope for her picking me because I had been in this situation a few times before and every time the woman in question has gone back to her ex. Still I was already in this far and it was going to hurt either way so I decided to hold out for her decision. Over the next week or so Jen and I continue to talk and I end up picking up a web cam so we can video-chat. Jen already had one so I had decided early on to get one. Anyway Jen was very excited about the webcam and we shared many long happy conversations. Actually it started to seem like I might actually have a chance of beating out her ex-boyfriend. Jen told me that she was really missing me and started talking about future plans once again. However, a few days later Jen e-mailed me and said that she had decided to try seeing Brad again. She said that it wasn't because of who I was, anything I did, or didn't do. That it was just that she already had so much invested emotionally that she needed to find out for herself what the deal was. Well, I e-mailed her back and told her that though I was upset, that I understood her decision. I told her that if things didn't work out between her and Brad that I thought we should give things another shot because there was obviously a connection between us. I asked her if she'd like to still be friends (because I wanted to keep the lines of communication open so I would hear if their relationship ended). She said she'd have to see. I imagine this Brad guy is pretty prone to jealousy and that's why she said that. After all look at how he reacted when she and I weren't anything more than friends and went out to dinner. So, that's my story... obviously I'm hoping that things aren't going to work out between them but I'm trying not to hold my breath. Because I thought her relationship with Brad was ancient history I never really asked too much about it. So I don't know if they will last or not. Jen has said that there were other issues, but the drug thing was by far the biggest one. But I also know that love can blind you to an awful lot. In every case like this in the past that I've been involved with the relationship the girl has gone back to has not lasted. It's just been a case of how long. I tend to be a bit pessimistic about this stuff because I've never had much luck in relationships so I'm betting they'll probably make it work or that I'll end up being in a new relationship when they do break up. I guess to make this a discussion instead of just a rant, does anyone see any way I could have avoided this, or headed her ex- off before he got a foothold. The only real thing that sent up a red flag was that she told me that Brad had come over recently (since our first date) to fix her furnace a couple of times. I had thought about saying something about that because I didn't like the sound of an ex-boyfriend over doing home repairs for her. However she and I really hadn't reached the point to where I would be justified in making that complaint.