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Thread: Help Was I Taken Advantage Of

  1. #11
    Forum Supporter ~Seraphim ~'s Avatar
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    Originally Posted by WaywardKiwi
    Hey Sherry, and everyone,

    I am not sure what jurisdiction you are living in Zoe, so I don't know the applicable law, plus I can't give you legal advice. However, the police in your area can.

    In a more general sense, I did want to address these two statements, more from a general point of view (and not in anyway to attack you Sherry, because I do take your point)...



    The express withdrawal of consent vitiates implied consent (participation).

    The inability to consent or withdraw consent (i.e. lack of conciousness) vitiates implied or express consent.

    These are general accepted principles in most legal jurisdictions, and, more importantly, should be principles we embrace socially and demand men and women follow. If someone says no, thats it. If someone is asleep, passed out, or unconcious, thats it.



    Intoxication of the accused is not a defence against non consent.

    The relevant Canadian Law, for example:

    273.2 It is not a defence ... that the accused believed that the complainant consented to the activity ..., where

    (a) the accusedís belief arose from the accusedís
    (i) self-induced intoxication, or
    (ii) recklessness or wilful blindness; or

    (b) the accused did not take reasonable steps, in the circumstances known to the accused at the time, to ascertain that the complainant was consenting.



    As I said, I agree that there is a general lesson here in the unfortunate reality that women need to be aware of high-risk situations and plan accordingly, as well as a personal lesson around substance use/abuse, but I want to reiterate:

    it is extremely important that women report assaults irregardless of the time-lapsed, or the likelihood of conviction. Complaints are still registered, and this goes toward funding for resources across the board; from more prosecutorial resources, to victim support and counselling, to education.

    So, for my part, as someone who has worked in criminal justice (on all sides), please, report this.

    T
    Thank you! Also being drunk doesnít mean you need to be sexually assaulted. BOTH men AND women need to understand being drunk doesnít make women OR men liable for their own assault. The CRIMINAL is.

  2. #12
    Platinum Member SherrySher's Avatar
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    Points taken, WaywardKiwi, but as much as we'd like to argue over this, things don't go this way in court, I'm sorry but they don't.

    He would have a defense lawyer and they would be tearing her story to shreds so as to try to keep their client out of jail or from being charged.

    I am not saying she wasn't taken advantage of here, let me make that very clear.

    I am only saying to try and prove that now to others, especially in court, is going to be quite difficult especially if this guy and the friends said she was going along with it and liked it.

    I also want all women out there to stop getting so intoxicated that they make themselves vulnerable to attacks like this.

    We all have to be much much more careful.

  3. #13
    Forum Supporter ~Seraphim ~'s Avatar
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    This is not about intoxication. This is about people committing criminal acts and society both men and women blaming victims for being intoxicated. Sexual assault happens without intoxication as well. Do we never leave our homes? We get raped by family members and relationships too. Should we not have those ?

  4. #14
    Bronze Member WaywardKiwi's Avatar
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    Hey Sherry,

    I absolutely agree that there are systemic problems relating to the prosecution of sexual assaults in common law jurisdictions. If this is indeed a "he said, she said" situation, there is a high chance (statistically) that this matter would not even lead to an arrest, let alone a conviction. However, (imo) silence and non-reporting is not the solution.

    Plus, regardless of the likelihood of prosecution, there are many other benefits of reporting, such as access to victim support and counselling (as well as the potential social gains mentioned in my other post). I'll leave it there, because I really think we are actually on the same side here. I just want to really drive home the importance of reporting.

    One more thing, I want there to be more people at the party, men or women, who will take the camera from the friend, pull the potential rapist off the intoxicated girl, and say "what is wrong with you people" in attacks like this...

    T

    Edit: my hypothetical person used somewhat stronger language originally, but enotalone didn't like it...

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  6. #15
    Forum Supporter ~Seraphim ~'s Avatar
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    The law is so so so far behind and still blames victims as well. My rape in 1980 was reported and I went to court. My own uncle who was an adult and I was a child and he got to walk away. And he went onto rape more kids and is still at it almost 40 years later.

  7. #16
    Platinum Member SherrySher's Avatar
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    Thank you for understanding, Wayward. I am not intending to start an argument whatsoever on what is right or who is right, I am only being realistic on the whole situation at hand.

    I agree with your points. As for the people at the party, absolutely!!! I cannot fathom what was wrong with these "friends". It made me sick to my stomach.

  8. #17
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    I don't think Sherry or anyone is "blaming" the victim (I prefer survivor) for being intoxicated, not at all.

    The message to women is control your drinking, not get so drunk that you're blacked out, so that if/when something like this happens, you're aware enough to remove yourself from the situation before a sexual assault (or worse) occurs.

    I don't see how anyone could argue with that.

    Same for allowing a man you hardly know into your apt, which was not the case here, but was a mistake I made and was sexually assaulted.

    Be self-protective, be aware, be smart.

    I work in law too, in CA, and here it's next to impossible to prove in a court of law a sexual assault or rape in a case like this.

    It's essentially a "he said, she said" and in many cases the assault victim ends up feeling more victimized and traumatized by the court system, than from the actual assault.

    I've seen it happen. It's very very wrong but it is what it is.

    I do agree she should report it though. To a female officer. The police will have it on record, and if the guy does this again, your report might prove valuable.

    Plus it will make you (OP) feel better, less victimized, and help the healing process.

    Seek therapy as well.

    I'm sorry this happened, it happened to me too many years ago, I understand how you feel.

    ((Hugs))

  9. #18
    Forum Supporter ~Seraphim ~'s Avatar
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    The thing is all the extraneous conversation takes away from the real issue which is a crime was committed, period.

  10. #19
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    Originally Posted by ~Seraphim ~
    The thing is all the extraneous conversation takes away from the real issue which is a crime was committed, period.
    I agree with you there S.

    Sadly, our justice system (in the US) is very very flawed in many ways.

    I've seen that play out more times than I can count.

  11. #20
    Gold Member Gary Snyder's Avatar
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    Call the police and let them sort it out.

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