Why do you always have to assume things about us women?

[polka]

I'm new here, but I've been reading on previous postings and I have a friend who is a member here, and it seems that there is quite a bit of advice on how guys should be cocky and should "embarrass girls" and should control girls to get girls, because girls "like this". I have read men tell other men that girls like to be dominated, that they like to have someone to follow around, that they like to have some guy who makes fun of her and ignores her, etc. etc.

 

But you know what? Why are men telling men about other girls? So far, I haven't read any women telling men that they like to be dominated, that they like to be made fun of and ignored. It's the men telling men this. But how do men know women more than we know ourselves?

 

I am sick of men telling other men that women don't like "nice guys". You know what? I have PLENTY of friends who date nice guys long-term, and who just want to slap a guy whenever he tries to use those stupid cocky techniques of his, which really DON'T WORK unless the girl is drunk silly, in which case she's not worth your time anyway. I have plenty of friends who are actually turned off by cocky guys, even if the cocky guy is good looking. He can be super hot, but if he thinks he is "the man" and that he can make stupid, arrogant passes at girls, he just becomes another loser who only the shallow, superficial girls want to be with. And believe me, those girls aren't worth your time, unless you're shallow and superficial too.

[Lady Bugg]

Well said Polka....I completely agree.

I like "nice guys" too...and if a guy "ignores" me, tries to "control" me...then he usually sees skid marks from me...

[RandomAdvisor]

Not all men think this way, and I'm sure you could find a similar number of women saying equally unfair and sexist things like "All men cheat," or, "All men are dogs."

[DN]

Speaking of assuming - why do you assume that all men are saying that? I, for one, don't.

[Mrocza]

Yup. There are a lot of bitter people on this site and most are very misguided. Ive seen a ton of members who make me cringe in annoyance at some of their theories and views on how to stay on top in a relationship by dominating women and treating them as the "catch".

 

I think it's pretty pathetic that guys feel the need to resort to some set of rules or some backward theory for approaching women or dealing with women in a relationship by trying to fool them.

 

If women knew your theories and what you were doing, do you have any idea how little respect they'd have for you? Women do like nice guys. We just prefer a nice guy who's not a total pushover. We definatly don't like to be treated like dirt and if thats the way you're getting women you need to be thinking about the kind of women you're trying to attract.

[RayKay]

Hmm, I don't think ALL the men say that. Certainly now and then posts pop up that do say that, but then plenty of men and women weigh in to the topic with their own sides that also say that's not always the case, and not even the case most of the time.

 

I like nice guys too, in fact I am with one If a guy ignored be, treated me horribly and embarrassed me, he would not be around long! And no, I don't follow ANYONE around... I want a partner, not a trainer..lol.

 

Sure there ARE women whom do like c0cky and arrogant jerks, but generally they either learn their lesson, or have some issues themselves to work through.

 

However there are indeed a lot of people I see now and then whom DO seem very bitter, do generalize women and have a quite a lack of respect for women as a whole, and very misguided views on relationship dynamics in general in my own opinon. Of course, there are also women for whom the reverse could be said.

 

I like what fairie said:

 

If women knew your theories and what you were doing, do you have any idea how little respect they'd have for you? Women do like nice guys. We just prefer a nice guy who's not a total pushover. We definatly don't like to be treated like dirt and if thats the way you're getting women you need to be thinking about the kind of women you're trying to attract.

 

I have to agree.

[Dako]

I find the swaggering little buggers amusing.

[DN]

Very often men who say that have been nice and have been rejected by women in favour of guys that do appear to be jerks. I can't find the thread but there was one a long time ago from a guy who approached a woman at a club and was humiliatingly rejected by a woman for the amusement of her friends. A lot of men responded that similar things had happened to them.

 

So - one of the reasons some men sometimes talk about not being a nice guy is because when they were they were burned by not very nice women.

[ShySoul]

polka,

 

You are quite right. There are a lot of confused guys (and to be fair many women as well, although the men tend to be much more vocal about it) who seem to believe that you have to be a jerk, play games, manipulate etc. And I also realize that no where in your post did you mention the word ALL, so you were not trying to group all guys together.

 

Why? Easy. These guys have been hurt before. Either they put their heart on the line by being a "nice guy," only to be hurt by a not so nice girl, or they got frustrated waiting for the right person to come along and started to buy into the idea that nice guys finish last. It is easy to lose hope on being good when all around you jerks appear to get ahead. But in the end the jerks are the ones who are suffering and are lonely and miserable.

 

Guys who recommend to manipulate are not really opening themselves to love. They are to busy being concerned about control and power to understand what love truly brings. And because they are concerned with things that will only bring heartache and pain, they will never really be happy.

 

Good guys, nice guys get the girl in the end. As I've always said, would you rather be the guy getting 50 dates that go nowhere? Or the guy living happily ever after with the women of your dreams?

[Ash]

Your point is well taken Polka. There are certainly guys out there (and perhaps some lurking around on this board) who are like that. But not all guys are like that! Anyway I'm sure you probably meant to say "some guys" ... right?

 

And for what it's worth, the silly drunk girl at the bar might have a story behind it all, but either way, she likely doesn't really need a cocky showoff either.

 

I think a common misconception that "nice" guys have is that the "jerks" always get the women. I don't actually think that's true.

[Hope75]

Hmmm...

 

Frankly I've NEVER heard guys telling other guys that women like to be made fun of and dominated.

 

Where are you hearing such things? Are you still in high school?

[Beyondthesea]

I really have gotten sick of the dominating male thing. Now I only date guys I can whip.

 

Just kidding

[BlueWolf]

You know what's interesting?

If I came here and said that I didn't have a girlfriend and gave them some background on me most people would say this as a reason for me not having a girlfriend: You're being too nice... women don't like nice guys.

 

If I came here and said that I didn't have a girlfriend and gave them some background on me in a cocky manner people would say this as a reason for me not having a girlfriend: You're full of yourself and you are cocky... women don't like cocky guys.

 

Guess what though? I'm neither of these two examples. I'm not the extreme of the first examples provided here and I'm not the extreme of the last examples provided:

(This thread, by the way probably inspired you write your first post here.)

 

I do like the advice there but I do not agree with all of it. Probably because I'm in the middle of it... but still I'm single.

 

There used to be a time between November and February 2nd when I really felt great and optimistic about it all. Some people say that things like that come when you least expected - or when you're not looking for them, but I was looking and I felt optimistic with great chances.

BUT nothing happened. So recently I've been feeling kind of lonely and no one is catching my eye anymore. I really do miss how I was feeling back then.

[Ash]

Not like I have a whole bunch of time to read old, largely irrelevant posts, but it seems one guy who's done very little posting on this site listed a bunch of "tips" and several other respected, frequent posters generally disagreed.

 

We have to always be mindful of the aggregate content of the posts and not get too focussed on a single, somewhat unique, interpretation of the world and how it works.

 

BTW, use the word "dominated" with care ... that's a whole different thing to some people. Right Beyondthesea? (Thanks for the humour, I needed that smile today!)

[Carnatic]

It is a common misconception that girls love a b**tard, but still there is a reason why nice guys are so often led to believe that they are destined to finish last and which time after time many people on this forum like to pretend doesn't exist.

Confidence, the jerks are usually confident, that is why they are jerks, yes as you all say they may be a little confused but not always, and even if they are confused, still... they are confident. Girls do like confidence and sometimes they are attracted to a confident guy who is a jerk, short term, before they realise he is a jerk and the relationship has no future (or maybe sometimes they are only after the short term). Either way it is easy to get the confidence mixed up with the fact he is a jerk and assume a nice guy can't be confident and can't be attractive in the same way. The mistake nice but shy guys make is to either take up the jerk as a role model and be just like him, instead of just learning from the few confident things he does do right; or go the other way and decide they don't want to be a jerk and thereforeeee behave like they don't want to be confident, because it's almost as if being confident makes you a jerk.

The moral of the story is... you can be both confident, outgoing, independent and still be nice.

[southerngirl]

I'm married to a nice guy, I wouldnt like it any other way.

[emptychipbag]

The moral of the story is... you can be both confident, outgoing, independent and still be nice.

 

 

Do they sell confidence in pill form yet, 'cause I'd so be buying that.

[ComputerGuy]

I think the biggest problem is people misinterpret what is meant. When someone says "Woman don't like nice guys"...I don't think they are reffering to polite people, more tha nice guys who let everyone walk all over them. Same as when they say girls like guys who ignore them etc...I don't think they mean flatr out ignore, I think they mean more like show that you're interested but at the same time not act obssessive and totally hang on every word they say.

 

People tend to generalise because it is easier and quicker to explain stuff...unfortunately the down side to this is often misinterpretation.

[CarnelianButterfly]

One of the things I've noticed reading through this thread is that none of the upstart roosters have replied yet. Why, because they most likely have no defense for themselves and just like to instigate and never fully support their assertions. The men who are touting those degrading and ridiculous techniques are trying to convince everyone that they are the man when in fact their bravado is false. The reason these guys get rejected by women is because we can feel their desire to control and dominate, they may act like a nice guy, but I think most women can tell later in the relationship they will be monsters.

[yeawutever]

Dunno where you heard that. Wouldn't even be friends with a jerk, would be time waste!!! And no, I don't like being dominated, I like being independent and treated as an equal individual.

[polka]

May I just say to everyone...

thank you so much for your intelligent replies. After reading this, I've realized that those kind of guys who tell other guys what to do really are in the minority!

 

Hmm...you ask me where I heard these guys giving their "bad advice". Well, no I'm not in high school. I'm a sophomore in college, but I skipped a grade and have always been younger than my peers. But I have heard this kind of advice being given on some eNotAlone threads, although you are right...it's only just the same two or three people. And I've also read advice by that web guru guy...DiAngelo or something, I believe. He writes weekly newsletters about how to snag a girl, and he's always stressing "BE COCKY, IGNORE THEM, WOMEN LIKE TO BE CONTROLLED" and frankly, he really gets on my nerves. It makes me sad to know that a lot of people still subscribe to his stuff and believe him.

 

But like I said, I'm glad this is really only the minority on eNotAlone that believes advice like that. And you're right...I wasn't referring to ALL guys in my first post, just some. I'm just worried that some very nice guys who can't get girls may start to take the advice of these other guys who think girls like to be controlled and ignored. I wouldn't want a sweet, nice guy, turning into a mean, controlling one due to misinformation!

 

Like I mentioned before, most of my friends date very nice guys. One of them is dating someone who is so nice you wouldn't even be able to believe it. He's also very shy, and weird looking, but my friend thinks he has a heart of gold and is crazy over him.

I DO have an ex-friend who dates a complete jerk, but this girl generally has lots of issues of her own and drives most people insane. Yes, she is very physically attractive, so I can see why some nice guys may see her with a jerk and assume that you have to be a jerk to get a girl like that, but I personally would never want to date a girl like her. And I know many more well-adjusted, equally sexy ladies who are perfectly happy with their nice boyfriends.

[Dako]

The constant need for new conquests begs the question. What becomes of these ladies after they've served their purpose? How are they discarded? Do their brothers have guns?

[Kevin T]

Can I say something? (Phh, like I'd stop even if you all shouted a loud, resounding 'no'. lmao)

 

I don't really know why men tell others to control women, etc. But I can definitely bear witness to you today that this is not the way I think. If nice guys truly do finish last as that dumb proverb states, then I guess I'll be at the end of the line then. I cannot believe nor accept that treating women like doormats, dirt, garbage, whatever is going to somehow 'win their hearts.' Any sensible person would clearly see the lack of logic behind that kind of argument. I mean, c'mon.

 

Seriously, some women may crave the 'bad boy' (the whole sexy son syndrome; don't ask... it's a psychological theory), but it has little merit IMO. For the guys out there like myself, who desire a deep, fulfilling, long-term romance, treating a woman like trash is not the way to win her over. And even if you do manage to get her with your deceptive smile and good looks, you sure as hell will not be able to keep her. Once she wakes up and realizes she married a devil in disguise, she'll be out of there faster than you can say 'Sorry.'

 

'Women like to be controlled.' Right. What a load. You know, maybe some guys are buying that crock, but most of us are far too smart for that.

[tylercdurden2004]

I myself have seen very few men on here advocating other mean stop being "nice" and to start being "mean", "nasty", "rude" "abusive" etc. I think what I see more commonly here is advice given to people who are nice to a fault where they let people walk all over them. This is not being nice its called "not being assertive" or also being "weak" which is never a good thing nor as far as I can tell by whats written here "attractive". Caring for others is absolutely a must but not at the expense of not looking after yourself. Its all about being true to yourself and not worrying what other will think of you to a degree. Yes you should show concern for what others think but not to the point that their concerns override yours. Sometimes this may be needed but it is unhealthy if this is habitual. AS far as internet guru David Deangelo iI think he makes some good point and a lot of those are taken out of context but I also think he makes some terrible points. This horse has been flogged in many many forums before. People have differing definition on what "nice" means.

 

I'm just worried that some very nice guys who can't get girls may start to take the advice of these other guys who think girls like to be controlled and ignored.

 

As far as your above statement. Isnt that what an advice forum is about to hear a variety of opinion and to take from those what "you" feel is needed. if someone takes advice from someone else and doesnt think for themselves, well thats really the issue of being "not assertive" or "weak".

[Kevin T]

I hate that Dave Deangelo guy. I read some of his stuff. What a crock.

 

[The above was merely the above poster's opinion and does not necessarily reflect or endorse the views of Enotalone or Enotalone staff and message board members.]