Wandering eye during a date...

[kim42]

16 minutes ago, Sindy_0311 said:

It’s not only a rose… it’s a rose you offer to a woman you don’t even know. It’s insignificant and irrelevant 😁

Sindy, I wonder if it's maybe cultural, because we're both based in Europe and we don't like gifts on first dates, who knows. 

It reminds me of this guy who posted on reddit that he bought flowers and paid for dinner on a first date and then the woman didn't want to go on a second date. He was very upset. I think it's best to keep furst dates simple - coffee or a drink, and no gifts 😁

[yogacat]

18 minutes ago, Sindy_0311 said:

It’s not only a rose… it’s a rose you offer to a woman you don’t even know. It’s insignificant and irrelevant 😁

This guy aside, try to avoid that mindset if you can.

Because, what if the next person you meet brings a flower or whichever and he turns out to be cool and you actually want to talk to him even if only briefly… but now you’re feeling guilty about the flower?

Not the biggest deal either way, but you don’t need to tell yourself stories in advance.

Now, I had someone send me a particular flower that I like and I thanked him but we're not dating so I myself 100 percent don't see it as relevant but as a gesture of appreciation.

I can't honestly recall receiving anything on a first date (haha, I must not be a lasting impression...), it's still not a big deal either way.

If he's paying for drinks and then YOU interrupt the gesture and it gets RUINED because OMG there's A ROSE gifted as a surprise — yellow, orange or violet doesn't matter — then I am gonna worry for you.🤪

[rainbowsandroses]

10 minutes ago, Sindy_0311 said:

but the rose is such a common gift to a woman that really I don’t get it.

Agree it is a bit contrived @Sindy_0311.

But I'm learning to not be so "judgy" about such things and appreciate the thought and effort.  

But there are limits, like bringing you a huge bouquet like I said, which I've had happen!  And yes he turned out to be a huge player! 

In any event, your feelings are your feelings, and it turned you off, which is OK imo.  I didn't mean to suggest it wasn't. 

[yogacat]

I think you're connecting the flower with him turning out to be leery eye wandering noodle head. So that, if someone brings you something on the first date, he must be a *******. 

[Sindy_0311]

3 minutes ago, kim42 said:

Sindy, I wonder if it's maybe cultural, because we're both based in Europe and we don't like gifts on first dates, who knows. 

It reminds me of this guy who posted on reddit that he bought flowers and paid for dinner on a first date and then the woman didn't want to go on a second date. He was very upset. I think it's best to keep furst dates simple - coffee or a drink, and no gifts 😁

It might be cultural. You are right. I do like simple first meets. And after that I do appreciate if the guy decides to make a gift because it’s more significant to me… outside of the cultural part, I think it’s a personality thing. I like to make gifts based on the taste of the other person. I remember my ex husband used to make expensive gifts but I didn’t enjoy them… (even asked him to return a 300 dollars jacket because I knew I would not wear it) one day he came back home with a mug, a ceramic beautiful big mug like I love them and I was so happy… but not every woman is like me…. Maybe this is where I’m to strict.

I replied to @rainbowsandroses, and mentionned the rose thing/first red flag like a joke. In reality, the rose he offered me was no big deal, his behavior was… 

[lostandhurt]

6 hours ago, Sindy_0311 said:

he looked back at me he immediately realized I wasn’t one of his buddies standing in front of him and apologized. 

I am a guy and when guys have been single for a while they are not in relationship mode/mindset.  No excuse just stating facts.  If he did like you said and realized he screwed up and apologized then that is a good thing right?  People make mistakes and if everything else went well is he worth a little more of your time to see if this was an aberration or he really has no class?

 Was it cool?  NO it was not. Is it worth writing him off without a second chance or some grace from you?  I don't think so.  If you or I did something stupid on a first date like this I would hope we had attracted someone that would give us another shot to redeem ourselves.

Lost

[rainbowsandroses]

1 hour ago, lostandhurt said:

I am a guy and when guys have been single for a while they are not in relationship mode/mindset.  No excuse just stating facts.  If he did like you said and realized he screwed up and apologized then that is a good thing right?  People make mistakes and if everything else went well is he worth a little more of your time to see if this was an aberration or he really has no class?

 Was it cool?  NO it was not. Is it worth writing him off without a second chance or some grace from you?  I don't think so.  If you or I did something stupid on a first date like this I would hope we had attracted someone that would give us another shot to redeem ourselves.

Lost

If I might respond @lostandhurt.

I do agree that in some instances a second chance is worth a shot when there is an attraction and mutual connection like the woman who discovered the man she was dating initially lied about his age.

I was all for giving him another chance after he apologized and the OP stated her boundary - no more lies.

Here, @Sindy_0311had not even determined how she felt about him plus he gave a rather lame reason - that he is aware of this undesirable and rude habit but yet continues to do it regardless.   That reflects an inability to control his own actions which is a turn off in and of itself!  

These two things combined served to turn Sindy completely off and you're not a woman so perhaps you're unable to understand this bit once a woman is completely turned off by a man's behavior, there's no going back after only 1-2 dates. 

I don't mean mad, disappointed or hurt, I mean "turned off." 

I recently rejected a man and chose to give it another shot BUT the reason I got initially turned off was not because of his behavior, it was about me and my own bias.  So it's different.

My $.02 and am interested how Sindy or the other ladies feel about it. 

 

[Batya33]

1 minute ago, rainbowsandroses said:

My $.02 and am interested how Sindy or the other ladies feel about it. 

 

I think it's individual.  For me -yes, dealbreaker but I didn't tend to date the sort of men who would behave that way.  Certainly moreso witih first meets where my sense of the person through  the few messages and phone calls didn't match up with reality

Here are some dealbreakers I had involving comments on a first meet or date or a second date.

He bragged about threatening a stranger on a bus with physical violence who was rude to him and if I remember he did hit the guy.

He told me his mother did "nothing!" as a SAHM -told me this twice.

He told me his coworkers were really really dumb (months later he contacted me again on the same site- I told him why I had declined a second date - and he said his mother gave his father a second chance after a bad first date -but for me it was still a no go.

He told me he wasn't dating anyone seriously but was having casual sex once a week or so with some gal he knew.

He told me his doctor told him to stop smoking weed and he wasn't sure if he would.

But these are individual to me -I didn't date men who smoked or used illegal drugs or drank a lot, I didn't date men who were comfortable with casual sex (as an adult -I didn't care much if during college they'd had their fun/gone through some sort of phase).  Other women not only were fine with this but did the same so it would be a positive.  

I don't remember the ogling other women issue.  From what Sindy described it would be a dealbreaker.  

[yogacat]

2 hours ago, lostandhurt said:

I am a guy and when guys have been single for a while they are not in relationship mode/mindset.  No excuse just stating facts.  If he did like you said and realized he screwed up and apologized then that is a good thing right?  People make mistakes and if everything else went well is he worth a little more of your time to see if this was an aberration or he really has no class?

His reply in this situation was, "its a reflex he is trying to get rid of…" which would indicate it's a regular thing.

[DarkCh0c0]

1 hour ago, yogacat said:

His reply in this situation was, "its a reflex he is trying to get rid of…" which would indicate it's a regular thing.

Exactly. It's a habit he has.

[catfeeder]

Hi Sindy, great topic. Your friend was not on these dates with you. So regardless of having your best interests at heart, nobody else has experienced all of the micro-impressions you picked up from this man.

Your gut responded to any number of inputs over both dates that amounted to your reaction. I would trust that.

Even if the front of your mind believed that everything was wonderful until he ruined it all in that moment, or whether you'd been unconsciously picking up tiny flags along the way--none of which, on their own, stood out as anything that shouted 'red'--but then he went and tipped the scale with this behavior, none of that matters.

We've seen you hold out for a good outcome with a guy in whom you were invested enough to learn over time whether he would invite you to his home and include you in his life in the way you deserve, and that didn't sound like an instant nix-over-nothing to me.

I think you are intuitive, and you are not some kid who hasn't yet learned how to operate in her own best interests. I hope you won't allow even the best intentions of a friend to cause you doubts about this. If the guy's behavior struck you as rude and a potential problem that you don't want to engage, I think you did the right thing. Congrats on using your head instead of adopting rose colored glasses that can bite you in your butt later.

 

[Jaunty]

13 hours ago, Sindy_0311 said:

So I guess it’s not an uncontrollable reflex. It’s something he chooses to do…

Well, to be fair, it could be a habit.  As you know, it's pretty easy to slip back into a habit if you're not on your guard.   

 

[MissCanuck]

16 hours ago, Sindy_0311 said:

So I guess it’s not an uncontrollable reflex.

Of course not. It's an uncontrolled reflex. There's a difference. 

He's trying to make it sound like a scratchy cough he just can't get rid of. Dude, please. It's not hard to fix this. Since he told you he does this, you know you would have been signing up for more of it. 

I would've nexted him too. He sounds ick. 

[Sindy_0311]

3 hours ago, Jaunty said:

Well, to be fair, it could be a habit.  As you know, it's pretty easy to slip back into a habit if you're not on your guard.   

 

Sure. I was trying to imagine how I would react if he does that in front of my family or my friends. I would feel so ashamed… I do think he canot control it… this is just something he does. And not because he has been single for a long time. 
@lostandhurt you said it could be a single guys thing. This guy has been married for 15 years, after that had a 3years relationship he just ended 4 month ago… he has 3 boys, and lives a daddy life 50% of the time… I guess he does the same when he hangs out with his 22 years old one. 
 

[catfeeder]

11 minutes ago, Sindy_0311 said:

Sure. I was trying to imagine how I would react if he does that in front of my family or my friends. I would feel so ashamed…

Take this one step further. Why would you be ashamed, if not for the fact that your family or friends would question why you would put up with that, right?

But the answer is, you wouldn't. And good for you!

 

[poorlittlefish]

This guy is 48, not 14.  He has enough life experience to know that gawping at other women in front of the one he's supposed to be on a date with is disrespectful behaviour.  He is not at the mercy of his primal emotions; he can exercise control over whether he ogles but chooses not to.  I have had first dates with men who've done this and they never got a second. 

If he wants to check out other women he can do that when he's not in your company.  I've never done this when I've been on a date and if I'm in a relationship with someone, I don't check out other men full stop.

[Batya33]

6 hours ago, Sindy_0311 said:

I do think he canot control it… this is just something he does. And not because he has been single for a long time.

Does he work? Does he control this at work? On an interview? When he is out to lunch with his grandma? Please.

[lostandhurt]

7 hours ago, Sindy_0311 said:

I do think he canot control it… this is just something he does.

Oh he can control it but non of us knows if this was a stupid mistake that he will never do again or if he acts like this all the time.

 You were on the date not any of us so for anyone to state who he is or how he thinks is just silly.  He did it, saw he made a huge mistake and apologized.  That is what we all know nothing more other than the date was going well up to that point.

 If you don't want to see him again for any reason or no reason that is totally your call.  You don't need any of us to tell you what he did was in very poor taste and disrespectful.  

 I am curious what happened after the date was over.  Did he ask you out again?  Text you?

 Lost

[Jaunty]

I missed the part where he is FORTY-EIGHT years old.  FFS.   

 

[rainbowsandroses]

3 hours ago, lostandhurt said:

Oh he can control it but none of us knows if this was a stupid mistake that he will never do again or if he acts like this all the time.

@lostandhurt

Re bolded^^, how would you interpret the below taken from Sindy's original post?

On 5/11/2024 at 2:11 AM, Sindy_0311 said:

This happened to me for the first time this week during a second date. It immediatly cooled me down. I pointed this out to him, he said that he has this issue and that he knew it wasn't right.

When someone states that behaving in a disrespectful way (or any way) is an "issue" for them, I think it's fair to assess they have behaved this way in the past and which in all likelihood has caused "issues" for them in social situations and relationships.

This is not an assumption, we are basing our assessment on HIS words that it is an issue for him.  Present tense.

It's a behavior he is aware of, IS able to control but chooses not to in certain situations like with Sindy.

As another poster pointed out, would he do this on an interview or in an important business meeting?   Most likely not.

If that's not your take so be, but I hardly think our opinions are "silly" and resent having them deemed in that way based on a comment HE himself made to Sindy.

P.S. As @Jauntyjust said, the man is 48 years old FFS.  Grow up.

 

 

 

[Starlight925]

Flat out disrespectful.

Even in a non-dating situation.  

If you're out with a same-sex friend for dinner, and that friend continually looks off at other people, it's a sign that they're not giving you full attention.  

That you're not as important as what/who they're looking at.

Me no likey.

[yogacat]

I nexted a man when we first started talking and he commented something flirty on another woman's SM. It popped up on my feed --- he was on my social media because he was friends of a friend. 

At the time, we were just casually talking and getting to know each other, so I decided to let him go and move on.

But I'm silly like that. You made the right call OP.

[Sindy_0311]

3 hours ago, lostandhurt said:

I am curious what happened after the date was over.  Did he ask you out again?  Text you?

Nothing happened. I think I was pretty clear when I told him that I didn’t want to pursue anything and asked him to leave. Frankly i think he was a bit shocked by my reaction but he got the message, and I didn’t expect anything from his part. 

[Sindy_0311]

3 hours ago, lostandhurt said:

non of us knows if this was a stupid mistake that he will never do again or if he acts like this all the time.

In fact I do know that it’s not a one time mistake. He clearly told me. And this is exactly what reinforced my decision. 

[LotusBlack]

On 5/11/2024 at 10:11 PM, Sindy_0311 said:

Absolutely not. I told him that i couldn’t deal with this kind of behavior and wanted to leave it at that and asked him to go. Not planning to see him again. I was just wondering whether I was to strict as one of my friends suggested and it made me second guess for a while. Also wanted to know whether you had similar experiences as I never experienced that before. 

 

Completely 

I don’t really think it is important whether others - or even yourself - think it’s too strict. It’s irrelevant, really, because it makes you uncomfortable. 

There are some things that people do earnestly need to practice being more tolerant about and learning to be a bit more flexible on, but this type of habit is not one of those things. Rather than you developing the skill to not be offended or put off by a partner who leers at women, the expectation should be on the partner to develop the skill not to do it.

As others have said, there is a rather significant difference between objectively recognising that someone is aesthetically pleasing while having a cursory glance as you/they walk by because they happen to be in your line of vision, and blatantly undressing someone with your eyes - even if only for a second or two. The former is casually recognising someone’s attractiveness and the latter is actively objectifying them in a sexual, almost predatory way. I strongly believe that it is quite easy to see the difference in someone’s eyes/expression, even if they look for but a moment. It is that that puts you off, not the length of time they looked.

Regardless, if it puts you off, it is irrelevant whether it is considered too strict or not.

P.S. I once had a boyfriend that I had been dating for a couple of months when we went to a social get-together one night. A girlfriend of mine was there and quite the stunner. My boyfriend had met her a number of times before, but she was dressed up for the occasion. It was for a only a moment, but when he saw her outfit, he looked her up and down appreciatively right in front of me and it induced a visceral reaction in me that was a combination of disgust and offence at the disrespect - for both me AND my girlfriend. I should have ended things with him right there and then. To be fair, he never did it again and I never spoke to him about it, but the lack of consideration towards me in that moment was an indicator of the lack of care in other areas of our relationship that would follow and we broke up 11 months in.