Am I too needy ?

[Batya33]

2 hours ago, Shycarrot said:

he problem is that loneliness is only tackled by genuine and positive human interactions, at least in my case

It's not passive like that.  If  you feel lonely you have to reach out and be willing to interact positively and in a genuine way.  

To me self sufficient means I can take care of myself -all the basics (food/shelter/healthcare) as an independent adult, with rare exceptions like when I had a post partum stroke. Nothing to do with whether I desire loving friendships or marriage.  

I'm sorry you've been feeling anxious!

As an aside I used to love eating out alone -me and a good book.  One of the two or three times I dined alone at Alice Waters famous restaurant in California I ended up chatting with two ladies at the next table! I don't care at all what others think.  I don't love eating out anymore as a rule but am happy to sit at a cafe alone! 

[Tinydance]

4 hours ago, Batya33 said:

It's not passive like that.  If  you feel lonely you have to reach out and be willing to interact positively and in a genuine way.  

To me self sufficient means I can take care of myself -all the basics (food/shelter/healthcare) as an independent adult, with rare exceptions like when I had a post partum stroke. Nothing to do with whether I desire loving friendships or marriage.  

I'm sorry you've been feeling anxious!

As an aside I used to love eating out alone -me and a good book.  One of the two or three times I dined alone at Alice Waters famous restaurant in California I ended up chatting with two ladies at the next table! I don't care at all what others think.  I don't love eating out anymore as a rule but am happy to sit at a cafe alone! 

Well, what I meant by self-sufficient is that yes of course we all want friends or a partner, but we also need to feel good in ourselves first. Like that saying: "How can other people love you if you don't love yourself." Like, if you just really absolutely can't bear to be alone and desperately need others. I don't think it's supposed to be like that. I think that friends or a partner can enrich your life, like compliment it. As in, they add something positive to your life. But it shouldn't be like: "I simply can't live if I don't have a friend." I'm not sure if that makes sense what I'm saying. I'm more so getting that vibe from OP's posts.

I could be wrong in this because I actually never felt self-conscious to go out alone. I actually went to a theatre play alone last night. I did have two tickets but on the end the other person couldn't come. But just the same I also go to theatre shows or concerts alone where I literally only get one ticket just for me. I always did this. I have friends but for some reason I didn't think anything of going anywhere alone so it didn't matter if anyone went with me.

Like, if I wanted to see a particular movie at the cinema or see a band I like. I asked people to go but they weren't interested. But I didn't want to miss out on seeing the band so I just went. But somehow I don't really notice that I'm alone, if that makes sense? Like, I'm watching the movie at the cinema and I'll be thinking something about the movie. Not "OMG I'm watching this movie all by myself." I also notice other people who are alone when I go out by myself. Because I'm not talking to friends I pay more attention to my surroundings. And I definitely see others who also go to things alone. 

At the same time I think here in Australia there isn't actually any focus on being in a couple or even going to places with other people. In cafes you'll often see people who are alone just working on their laptop or reading a book. But I guess here and especially in my city most people are friendly. It's considered acceptable say if you're passing someone in a park or in the street to say "good morning,  nice day today." I mean not everyone does that but some people do. It seems to happen even more in more rural areas.

I drove to this beach town 3.5 hours away by myself once. It's popular for whale watching so I went there for that. I actually didn't even ask anyone to go with me! I just jumped in my car and went. Again I didn't really notice I was alone except constant texts from my mother checking if I'm OK lol Anyway when I was walking around that town, people would smile to me and say; "Good evening" "hello" etc. It happened a lot.

I understand if you live in a country that's really over populated and say you're in a city of twenty million people, you might feel alone. Some cultures have that idea that you shouldn't talk to strangers. So I understand in that sense it could feel lonely and like you're bring excluded. Here I think it's not the case. It's also acceptable here to be alone. As I said, I always went out alone and nobody ever asked me why I was alone. They seemed to perceive it as normal. 

[Batya33]

2 hours ago, Tinydance said:

Well, what I meant by self-sufficient is that yes of course we all want friends or a partner, but we also need to feel good in ourselves first. Like that saying: "How can other people love you if you don't love yourself." Like, if you just really absolutely can't bear to be alone and desperately need others. I don't think it's supposed to be like that. I think that friends or a partner can enrich your life, like compliment it. As in, they add something positive to your life. But it shouldn't be like: "I simply can't live if I don't have a friend." I'm not sure if that makes sense what I'm saying. I'm more so getting that vibe from OP's posts.

I agree - our close friends and partners enhance/complement our lives. And that way during those needy times -which most of us have -it's the exception not the rule. 

I do tons of stuff alone too -I've traveled, gone to theater and movies, eating out, etc - and also I'm married and it doesn't mean he's available to go with or wants to (you know like a chick flick lol).  I don't care at all how it is perceived.  

[Mason Parsons]

It's totally normal to have these feelings, especially when a close friend gets into a new relationship and life gets busy. It's great that you're trying to expand your social circle and focus on other things too. As for your friend, it's important to communicate how you feel, but also understand that everyone has their own challenges and priorities. Maybe try talking to her when she's less stressed about how you've been feeling.

[Tinydance]

12 hours ago, Shycarrot said:

Thank you so much for your help/concern ❤️

First I want to say that I allow myself to share my darkest thoughts in these pages, but they do not impact me on a day to day basis : I am pretty content with my life, I love my work, my hobbies... and I can function normally 🙂 

My anxiety is going through the roof when I let myself spiral down with negatives thoughts, but in the last few months, I realize it "only" happens in 1-3 days a month. It's significantly more than before, but It's not too worrisome. 

I am currently going through a rough patch but hopefully, things will get better soon and writing here has helped.

Thank you about this ! Well, I am not sure ? You mean that I am only looking for informations that confirm my beliefs ? I am not sure it's accurate because thinking that romantic relationships are more valued than friendships in our culture is pretty realistic (yes, it's a generalization, I am aware it can vary according to the people). I could try to prove the opposite with rational, solids arguments but frankly, I would struggle. 

Sorry, you think I put my eggs in which basket exactly ? 

What does it mean to be self-sufficient ?

I have come to the conclusion that every time I was telling myself that I was able to be happy single and that I felt 100% fulfilled with my life, in retrospect, I had among other things, secure friendships with whom I shared a closed bond.

What I truly meant then, is that I didn't need a relationship specifically, all I needed was love, and love can come from many type of relationships (friends, family, boyfriends ...). It's still true to this day.

Does it make me not self-sufficient ? Probably, but you know what, I think the majority of human beings are like this. Few people are able to live a sustainable life without any kind of positives interactions, like you said, human are social creatures. And everyone needs to be loved. 

Now and like I said, what I miss the most is being able to text someone randomly about something that happened during my dat, or others things. But right now, I have no one to do that with apart from my sister. 

My friend now does this with her boyfriend, she meets most of her social needs with him now and I think it's the case with many people in a relationship. 

Now that I think about it, the last time I saw her, she said she went out much more than before (her boyfriend likes to party and he's very social).

But she asked if she could join one of my meetups because she was "tired" of her boyfriend's friends, she found them uninteresting. 

So I accepted, and she joined me to an event. 

I guess at this particular moment, I could have said that I would have liked to go out with her as well, but I didn't want to sound needy. 

What I am trying to articulate is that contrary to what one of you said, I do seem pretty independent and well-adjusted from an exterior point of view. I sometimes struggle to express my deepest feelings (like I do it here) and there's nothing that I hate more than sounding needy. 

So my friends in general have no idea I feel like this. They imagine that I have this "perfect" career with a "perfect" house and "perfects" vacations. 

My friend even said at one point when we last saw each other "you're not lonely !" and I thought to myself "if only you knew" lol. (I never told her because I don't want to guilt-trip her)

Plus, she's generally the one who needs reassurance because she has a fear of abandonment.

Yeah, don't worry about this, giving off a desperation vibe is the least of my concerns 😂

 It's rather the opposite, people think I am perfectly well-rounded and don't need anyone. 

You mentioned that I had an insecure attachment style, I know I am an avoidant in romantic relationships. In friendship I am secure (leaning avoidant, but it's mild).

The problem is that loneliness is only tackled by genuine and positive human interactions, at least in my case. I love it when get a positive feedback from the patients, or my coworkers or other people. It's awesome when I meet new people ... But I realize that it's not 100% fulfilling. 

I miss the close bond I had with my friend, that's all. And it's hard to replicate it with other people, it takes time to built this kind of trust and intimacy. 

Thank you 🙂 Honestly, I have been alone (not lonely) a large chunk of my life, so I think I know myself pretty well and I am definitely able to have a good time by myself, but thanks ! 

Well in terms of the confirmation bias. I'm sorry but to me it seems that you have a deep fear of being alone or "left behind". I mean you did say that you have this fear so I'm not diagnosing you with anything lol I'm just talking about something you said yourself. You are scared that your friends will ditch you for a boyfriend and people care more about their partner than you. So you're looking for research or articles that proves that this is all true. Your fear is real because it's real to YOU. But I don't think that's the full reality that people only care about romantic relationships and don't care about friendships. I think in most cultures this will be the case. If people didn't care about friendship then nobody would have friends at all. Like, people would just have a husband or wife, then divorce and have nobody. But that's not everyone's reality, right? Lots of people in relationships still have friends.

I'm sorry that you had some bad experiences where your friends got a boyfriend and you lost touch. I've had friends ditch me too but I don't think it was because of a boyfriend but because they weren't true friends or other reasons. Some reasons a couple of my female friends ditched me is I knew them for some years and then came out to them that I'm bisexual. Keep in mind I had zero romantic interest in them and zero advances towards them. They didn't feel comfortable that I'm bisexual/they're homophobic so they basically ended the friendship. Like I understand about people drifting or ditching you but it seems you are very adamant that all of that is always because they got a boyfriend.

I see what you mean that your friend is getting her social needs through her boyfriend and not through you. It's normal you miss her but she doesn't "have" to make sure your social needs are met. I'm not getting the impression that she's actually ditched you. You gave even recent examples in your posts that she asked you to catch up and you went to an event. You said she is talking to you about her boyfriend or what she's up to. So obviously she is answering your messages. If she wanted to just ditch you, she wouldn't go to an event with you or message you back etc. She could easily just ignore you. Which she's not doing right? She's just living her life and spending time with her partner which is normal. 

I'm not diagnosing your attachment style as in secure, avoidant, etc. I was simply saying your attachment to your friend isn't healthy in the sense that you are really fixated on her. You were saying why do your friends get obsessed with their boyfriend and only focus on the boyfriend. But why are you only focusing on this one friend like she's literally your everything on life? I'm sorry but yes that is needy.

There is a difference between wanting to have friends and putting that full hope on one friend that they're your everything and you're just miserable without them. Like, if someone had a partner and the partner went away for three months, of course they'll miss them. But if their partner just went to work for the day and they're depressed and lonely coz the partner isn't there, that's not healthy attachment. Nothing wrong with wanting to have friends but in your case it's too dependent. It's exactly the same as women who are never happy unless they have a guy. 

 

[Tinydance]

10 hours ago, catfeeder said:

Okay, good. I think ‘we’ as a collective bunch of strangers on the Internet are well meaning but over-reaching into diagnosing your personality or ascribing characteristics to your mental health based on a few sentences. We ALL struggle at times. You don’t need to defend yourself to us.

Observations about which weighs more, a partner or a friend gets so far out into the weeds that it’s not even useful. You feel how you feel. The problem only comes when you translate those into any binary always/never narratives that cast you into a role of being inherently ‘wrong’ for not having found a partner or ‘bad’ for feeling a loss when a friend pulls away. We’ve ALL experienced this kind of divergence in friendships, to at least some degree, as very few friends can live perfectly parallel states throughout their lifetimes.

So defending your perceptions to strangers is not useful. Plenty of people have offered our own examples of situations that have made us feel the same way. So you’re in excellent company with good people throughout the world. While this may not alleviate the loneliness of your immediate experience, it does serve to confirm that you are not alone in your feelings during this transition from enjoying the consistent companionship of one best friend to expanding your reach to incorporate more friendships into your life.

And you are correct, that takes time. And you’ve been working it well! In the course of this thread, you’ve been getting out, meeting people, and you’ve even enjoyed a good catch up with the friend in question, resulting in a more peaceful and relaxed regard for her!

So I’m not clear why some people here are dragging you back into examination of your initial posts in this thread rather than congratulating you for the wonderful work you’ve been doing. I’d suggest not going down that road, but rather, refer folks to the midpoint of this thread for examples of your proactive approach.

Meanwhile, share your thoughts and memes with your sister as you look forward to her visit, even while you continue cultivating your new friendships. GREAT JOB!!

I wasn't trying to diagnose any disorder or personality or anything but was only referring to the fears OP mentioned herself. I think that's what can cause the anxiety, the generalisation that you mentioned. E.g. "All my friends will leave me for a boyfriend", "society only values romantic relationships", "I'll be left by myself". These are really broad and black and white statements. Some people really value romantic relationships but some people don't. I have friends who don't want marriage or kids. One of my friends is actually from India and she's 40 and never wanted kids and now doesn't want a partner either. I'm literally quoting her: "I don't need a guy, only my friends and cats" lol

[boltnrun]

The problem with relying on someone to relieve loneliness is there's a tendency to not only leap on the first person who comes along (regardless of their suitability) but there's also a tendency to become overly dependent on that person. So if they go out of town or have to work extra hours you feel abandoned or even depressed. Or if they're insensitive or even mean and/or abusive there's a tendency to put up with being mistreated just so you won't go back to being 'alone'. 

So you can decide "I am lonely and I desire human connection. But I am going to be selective about who I allow into my inner circle." Both can coexist. 

[Shycarrot]

On 3/20/2024 at 3:34 AM, Tinydance said:

These are really broad and black and white statements. Some people really value romantic relationships but some people don't.

I understand this better now, thank you 🙂 Through Meetup, I have met many single women in their 30s or 40s and it helped me realize that my fears were quite groundless  : being single at any age is not a fatality.

Some of these women were single by choice, others just happened to be single because their last relationship ended, which brings me to my next point : nothing in life is guaranteed, and you just have to make the most of what you have. (at least that's what I am getting out of it)

I have chatted with most of them and they were lovely and had a great social life. It greatly reduced my anxiety because it gave me a sense of agency.

 

Anyway, some of you here pointed out the fact that I was too needy and high maintenance with my close friend. 

I took that into consideration and I went out of my way to expand my social circle. You were right, it tackled my loneliness and I have met great people, doing hobbies that I enjoy. So far, so good 🙂 

The situation with my friend has not improved at all lol. But it's okay, it barely hurts now because I have others things to do. 

It got to the point where I am really happy, going out 2 to 3 times a week with my new friends and I just feel less close to the former one : she takes weeks to reply to my texts, never checks on me, her texts are also very briefs.

She does not have the time to hang out but when we do, she mentions going out with her boyfriend and partying with his friends several times a week. I see her reply to his texts immediately. 

So yeah, she puts way less effort in this friendship than before, but it's her prerogative and I respect that, she has every right not to prioritize me. 

Anyway, we saw each other last week (after almost 6 weeks) and what bugs me the most, is that she asked if she could come and meet my new friends because she wants to socialize as well.  

Meanwhile, I have not met her boyfriend nor his friends and she never invited me to their parties, even though she knew I knew no one in this city.

I am delighted that I have finally found a group of people to have a good time with, I absolutely don't want to share this with her especially because I had to make these efforts after she downgraded our friendship. 

And now she wants to come and meet them like it's easy 🙄

I don't think she has ill intention, but personally, I feel used... 

I said I was going to think about it, but I am perfectly sure that I want to compartmentalize things. 

I intend to tell her that I felt quite lonely this past year and that I had to make a special effort to socialize, that I am happy that I finally found "my people" and that I want to keep it that way, just like she has "her people" (her boyfriend and his friends). 

 

At the same time, I am worried that this will cause a rift in our friendship 😕 And I wonder if my behavior is vindictive ? 

 

Thank you !! 

 

[Tinydance]

1 hour ago, Shycarrot said:

I understand this better now, thank you 🙂 Through Meetup, I have met many single women in their 30s or 40s and it helped me realize that my fears were quite groundless  : being single at any age is not a fatality.

Some of these women were single by choice, others just happened to be single because their last relationship ended, which brings me to my next point : nothing in life is guaranteed, and you just have to make the most of what you have. (at least that's what I am getting out of it)

I have chatted with most of them and they were lovely and had a great social life. It greatly reduced my anxiety because it gave me a sense of agency.

 

Anyway, some of you here pointed out the fact that I was too needy and high maintenance with my close friend. 

I took that into consideration and I went out of my way to expand my social circle. You were right, it tackled my loneliness and I have met great people, doing hobbies that I enjoy. So far, so good 🙂 

The situation with my friend has not improved at all lol. But it's okay, it barely hurts now because I have others things to do. 

It got to the point where I am really happy, going out 2 to 3 times a week with my new friends and I just feel less close to the former one : she takes weeks to reply to my texts, never checks on me, her texts are also very briefs.

She does not have the time to hang out but when we do, she mentions going out with her boyfriend and partying with his friends several times a week. I see her reply to his texts immediately. 

So yeah, she puts way less effort in this friendship than before, but it's her prerogative and I respect that, she has every right not to prioritize me. 

Anyway, we saw each other last week (after almost 6 weeks) and what bugs me the most, is that she asked if she could come and meet my new friends because she wants to socialize as well.  

Meanwhile, I have not met her boyfriend nor his friends and she never invited me to their parties, even though she knew I knew no one in this city.

I am delighted that I have finally found a group of people to have a good time with, I absolutely don't want to share this with her especially because I had to make these efforts after she downgraded our friendship. 

And now she wants to come and meet them like it's easy 🙄

I don't think she has ill intention, but personally, I feel used... 

I said I was going to think about it, but I am perfectly sure that I want to compartmentalize things. 

I intend to tell her that I felt quite lonely this past year and that I had to make a special effort to socialize, that I am happy that I finally found "my people" and that I want to keep it that way, just like she has "her people" (her boyfriend and his friends). 

 

At the same time, I am worried that this will cause a rift in our friendship 😕 And I wonder if my behavior is vindictive ? 

 

Thank you !! 

 

Thank you for the update Shy! I'm really glad to hear that you're having fun with your new friends! I actually don't think you have an obligation to invite anyone out with your group of friends. Like, you can if you want to. But you don't HAVE to. I think that seeing as your friend barely puts any effort at all into your friendship, you can just do the same. If you're going out with your new friends then go out with them and don't message her to come too. You also don't really need to update her that you're going out with them either.

I could be wrong but it seems to me that she's very worried about preserving the relationship with her boyfriend. So she always puts him first and only goes out with him and his friends. But maybe she's not even having a good time with them. If she was then why would she be asking to come out with you and your new friends?

In terms of relationships, I actually see it as a fluid thing. In the sense that anyone can be single or in a relationship at any given time. So that's why I thought it was a bit unusual how you were talking about single people and people in relationships as different species or something lol

And yeah there are all sorts of people out there. For example I have a female friend who's been married for 17 years with kids. And I have another female friend who at 39 has never been with anyone whatsoever in any romantic or physical way. But I think most people go in and out of relationships. I don't mean constantly but even if they're in a 10 year relationship, it might end. I don't think most people prioritise romantic relationships, but some do sure. Everyone is different.

[boltnrun]

Why not just direct her to the link to the Meetup groups? That way she can attend if she wants but it's not directly joining up with you and your friends. 

[Andrina]

2 hours ago, Shycarrot said:

she takes weeks to reply to my texts, never checks on me, her texts are also very briefs.

I don't know why you've come up with a long reply to explain why you don't want her joining your meet up groups, since it seems you're always the first one to text her and barely see her. Do you really think she'll be reaching out to press you about this?

I don't even know why you're reaching out to her at all since you feel used and ignored. 

But so what if you feel like you're being vindictive for not including her as she wishes? Do you aspire to being a perfect saint and do whatever's best for everyone else even if you suffer in the process?

Anyway, I'm glad you're enjoying your new friends. Keep moving toward enjoyment and leaving behind whatever brings you stress, frustration, and any other negative emotions.

[Batya33]

To me unless someone is married, engaged or in a like marriage relationship like common law that person is single -maybe just technically - but -single.  Why in the world is that a fatality at any age?? Yes -if a person only wants to have or adopt a child within a marriage(which was me) then time is not on your side if you're in your 40s and want a bio child or the whole - we're too old even to adopt.  Myself and a number of my friends had kids -bio or adopted - in our 40s.I have friends in their 50s who got in their own way basically and are single and without kids although told me many times for years they wanted both.  It happens- no guarantees.

I was 38 and single - started again with my future husband at 39 and no I didn't feel single even before we were engaged and expecting a baby- but - I was! And I heard comments akin to your "wow I guess it's not a fatality to be single in your 30s" too many times.  They hurt.  And I hurt myself with the negative self-talk too.  Please take a different tack. 

And I agree about your friend -leave it be.

[Wiseman2]

6 hours ago, Shycarrot said:

. I intend to tell her that I felt quite lonely this past year and that I had to make a special effort to socialize, that I am happy that I finally found "my people" and that I want to keep it that way, just like she has "her people" (her boyfriend and his friends). 

It's great you are out socializing and dating.  You can invite her to meet your friends if you want but there is no need to make her feel guilty about making you feel abandoned, especially since you already took care of yourself and your sick life. 

[Shycarrot]

7 hours ago, Wiseman2 said:

You can invite her to meet your friends if you want but there is no need to make her feel guilty about making you feel abandoned, especially since you already took care of yourself and your sick life. 

I have no intention to tell her this out of the blue. 

It's just that I feel like at some point, she'll ask me again if I can introduce her to my friends and I am not sure I can tell her "no" without any explanation. I feel like this would be too cold and I would miss a chance to share my feelings (if it's even a good idea to share them). 

7 hours ago, Batya33 said:

And I heard comments akin to your "wow I guess it's not a fatality to be single in your 30s" too many times.  They hurt.

Sorry that I hurt you, I really didn't mean to ! 

I have never said that to anyone's face, it would be really rude indeed. It's just that, where I live at least, there's this negative cliche of the "spinster". 

Even though I know this insult stems from misogyny, arbitrary and questionable norms, deep deep down, I have internalized that being single past a certain age, is bad. 

It takes time and efforts to completely get rid of this idea but I am working on it 

10 hours ago, Andrina said:

Do you really think she'll be reaching out to press you about this?

You are right to point this out. I guess at some point, when I see her again, the topic is going to came up ?

10 hours ago, Andrina said:

I don't even know why you're reaching out to her at all since you feel used and ignored. 

I reach out for her out of respect for our friendship, I think. 

And also, her boyfriend does not look like a good person to me, from what she tells me (I can elaborate). So I feel like I have to look out for her, just in case. 

Also, I know she suffers from depression, that's why I am particularly understanding : in her case, juggling between her relationship, her studies, her family and friends must be hard ?

 

10 hours ago, Andrina said:

Do you aspire to being a perfect saint and do whatever's best for everyone else even if you suffer in the process?

Honestly, yes ! But that's another story. 

10 hours ago, boltnrun said:

Why not just direct her to the link to the Meetup groups? That way she can attend if she wants but it's not directly joining up with you and your friends. 

Thank you, I didn't think about this but yes, I will make this suggestion 

11 hours ago, Tinydance said:

In terms of relationships, I actually see it as a fluid thing. In the sense that anyone can be single or in a relationship at any given time

Yes, exactly, I realize that it's fluid 🙂 

 

 

11 hours ago, Tinydance said:

Thank you for the update Shy! I'm really glad to hear that you're having fun with your new friends! I actually don't think you have an obligation to invite anyone out with your group of friends. Like, you can if you want to. But you don't HAVE to. I think that seeing as your friend barely puts any effort at all into your friendship, you can just do the same. If you're going out with your new friends then go out with them and don't message her to come too. You also don't really need to update her that you're going out with them either.

 

Thank you ❤️

The reason I mentioned my new friends in the first place, is that I wanted to share funny anecdotes that involved some of them. But I am not updating her every time I go out with them, in fact I never do that. 

11 hours ago, Tinydance said:

I could be wrong but it seems to me that she's very worried about preserving the relationship with her boyfriend. So she always puts him first and only goes out with him and his friends. But maybe she's not even having a good time with them. If she was then why would she be asking to come out with you and your new friends?

Honestly, I don't know. 

She does not appreciate some of her boyfriend's friends, but if I recall correctly, she does get along with some of them. 

[Jaunty]

I'm sorry but I feel like it's quite weird to make some kind of point about not introducing her to your friends because they are YOUR PEOPLE and she has her OWN people.   It  seems from my perspective to be over the top.   

If you don't want her to know about your friends, then why are you telling her about them?  

I can't imagine any situation where it would be a good idea to make something of this.   

Lots of people including myself might say, after hearing some fun stories about somebody's new friends, "Wow!  They sound great, I'd love to meet them."  

It doesn't mean that they ever will meet, of course. It's a social nicety.  You simply never introduce them, but if you make this into a chance to sort of "teach her a lesson" about not being there for you as your bff, it really seems like bridge burning of a sort that might have no recovery potential.  It's really an awkward and heavy handed thing to do.   

[Shycarrot]

For some context a year and a half ago, before she met her boyfriend we both agreed it would be nice to meet more people because we knew no one in the city. 

So I tried meetup sporadically back then, and I always invited her. She wasn't willing to try meetup or others apps of her own because of her anxiety, so I said "it's okay, you can join me and we'll make new friends". 

She is still in contact with one of the girls that she met through the app. Then, I had to move to another city and only came back in may 2023.  

I tried meetup again a few times, but both girls I clicked with had to relocate. She knew this.

In the summer, she finds a boyfriend, gets 100% invested in her relationship, puts less efforts in our friendship and updates me about how she meets a ton of people through her boyfriend and I don't know if it ever crossed her mind that maybe, she could offer me to meet those people, just like I always included her in my plans. 

I never asked because I figured that if she wanted to, she would, and I didn't want her to feel pressured. 

I am not a mean nor angry person, but I am starting to feel resentful.

I find that she has some nerve, to neglect this friendship for almost a year and then ask me to swoop in and meet the friends I made in the mean time, while never including me in her social life 🙄

 

8 hours ago, Jaunty said:

You simply never introduce them

But you are right, I will stop talking about the new people I am meeting and I will simply do this. 

[Wiseman2]

2 minutes ago, Shycarrot said:

 I am starting to feel resentful.

I find that she has some nerve, to neglect this friendship for almost a year and then ask me to swoop in and meet the friend I made in the mean time, while never including me in her social life

Perhaps it's time to decide whether you want to be friends or frenemies. All this resentment built up from over dependence on her isn't good for either of you.  She doesn't seem to have as many issues with you as you do with her, so you're just hurting yourself with the resentment.

[Batya33]

1 minute ago, Shycarrot said:

For some context a year and a half ago, before she met her boyfriend we both agreed it would be nice to meet more people because we knew no one in the city. 

So I tried meetup sporadically back then, and I always invited her. She wasn't willing to try meetup or others apps of her own because of her anxiety, so I said "it's okay, you can join me and we'll make new friends". 

She is still in contact with one of the girls that she met through the app. Then, I had to move to another city and only came back in may 2023.  

I tried meetup again a few times, but both girls I clicked with had to relocate. She knew this.

In the summer, she finds a boyfriend, gets 100% invested in her relationship, puts less efforts in our friendship and updates me about how she meets a ton of people through her boyfriend and I don't know if it ever crossed her mind that maybe, she could offer me to meet those people, just like I always included her in my plans. 

I never asked because I figured that if she wanted to, she would, and I didn't want her to feel pressured. 

I am not a mean nor angry person, but I am starting to feel resentful.

I find that she has some nerve, to neglect this friendship for almost a year and then ask me to swoop in and meet the friend I made in the mean time, while never including me in her social life 🙄

 

But you are right, I will stop talking about the new people I am meeting and I will simply do this. 

Maybe her boyfriend isn't open to her inviting friends to meet his friends.  Many peoples' priorities shift when they're in a serious relationship.

A few weeks ago a friend of mine -we live in the same general area, have only met once in person -met during pandemic -and we try to speak by phone every couple of weeks- texted me and I texted back quickly that I was swamped at work and would respond later -  I was -and then I had a quick break for lunch and my priority is -to eat peacefully -not while texting or being on the phone. 

She's not high maintenance but she was that day -she texts -do you have time for a quick call? (at this point I'm starving, lunch is almost ready and I have a short break) -I'd already told her I was swamped.  Our calls are never short.  So I texted -sorry maybe you didn't see my text I'm swamped.  My lunch will burn soon if I call.  Turns out she wanted to invite me to her holiday gathering the next week - which is lovely. 

But here's my point - stop imposing your standards on others. My priority -and I'm not apologizing -was to exhale/eat lunch that was not burned and was at the right temp  then back to the salt mines  -this deadline I had that day.  Plus my son would be home from school early afternoon.  I chose not to prioritize my friendship even for a "quick call." 

Others eat on the run.  I don't.  Your friend chooses to prioritize time with her boyfriend and perhaps with his friends she's concerned the dynamic might not work, it might be too inconvenient given what activities they all do -whatever. 

That you would do differently -that you would take a phone call during your lunch break for example -doesn't make her a bad friend or you a better friend.  Serious relationships -whether romantic or when caring for a child or an aging parent- have all sorts of timing complexities and the time investment as in my case then bleeds over into other timing stuff in your daily life.  That's life - she's not as serious about your friendship as she is about her new boyfriend.  Others might do it differently -maybe when you're in a serious relationship you'll make it clear to your boyfriend that your friends take priority and you'll make sure to invite your single friends to meet his friends -or else. 

Maybe you'll value your close friends more than she does and you'll go against what is more typical and tell your new partner -this is who I am -so if we're going to have a casual lunch at home together but my friend calls for a quick call -just like start without me ok or I'll take the call while we eat -oh you don't like that -too bad she's my close friend.  You know what -that's fine -there are people who would be fine with that. 

For me as someone who puts friends at the highest priority - my husband and kid most often come first - I've asked my husband to help me out with whatever our son needs if a close friend really needs me - but honestly if he's helping me with something parenting-wise and a friend calls or texts or a family member and it can wait -any way it can wait -I don't want him taking the call and taking away my break or my focus on another task.  I want the family to come first. That's just me -you do you. 

But please lay back a bit on all the judgey stuff.  Serious relationships and the responsiblities are real and sometimes friendships do have to be secondary.  

[Shycarrot]

34 minutes ago, Wiseman2 said:

Perhaps it's time to decide whether you want to be friends or frenemies. All this resentment built up from over dependence on her isn't good for either of you.  She doesn't seem to have as many issues with you as you do with her, so you're just hurting yourself with the resentment.

But at the same time, resentment arises when I feel like some of my boundaries are crossed. 

My question is : would now be a good time to talk to her about how I have felt this year ? No accusations, just I statements. 

I feel like if I don't do this, my feelings will fester and ruin our friendship anyway. 

And if I do, there is a good chance that it will also damage the friendship, but at least, I would have been honest with her

[Shycarrot]

28 minutes ago, Batya33 said:

Serious relationships and the responsiblities are real and sometimes friendships do have to be secondary.  

But when you never checks on me, take weeks to reply to my texts, are way less thoughtful than usual ... I don't really know if I can still call you my friend ? 

The last time I saw her, I offered her a gift that I got her during a trip in march. I made her a particular cake, because I love to bake, and because she told me she would like to taste it. What I am trying to say is that I still make efforts for her, I behave just like before.

She confided in me about a personal struggle. When I got home I sent her a message that I thought could be helpful. She replied 10 days later with a sentence "that's very reassuring, thanks for your kindness ❤️". 

If it was a year ago, she would have replied earlier and if not, she would have asked how I was doing, how work was going (especially as she knows I am working on my thesis) etc ... Just a general thoughtfulness, really. 

I agree that it's normal to have a shift in priorities ... but, that much ?

I know plenty of people in a relationship who still make time for their friends.

Having said that, I agree that she can manage her time as she pleases.

I am just wondering if I should at least tell her how I feel, using this kind of tools : 

https://www.firstsession.com/resources/how-to-use-i-statements#:~:text=Using I statements can lead,actions%2C rather than blaming others.

 

 

[Tinydance]

37 minutes ago, Shycarrot said:

For some context a year and a half ago, before she met her boyfriend we both agreed it would be nice to meet more people because we knew no one in the city. 

So I tried meetup sporadically back then, and I always invited her. She wasn't willing to try meetup or others apps of her own because of her anxiety, so I said "it's okay, you can join me and we'll make new friends". 

She is still in contact with one of the girls that she met through the app. Then, I had to move to another city and only came back in may 2023.  

I tried meetup again a few times, but both girls I clicked with had to relocate. She knew this.

In the summer, she finds a boyfriend, gets 100% invested in her relationship, puts less efforts in our friendship and updates me about how she meets a ton of people through her boyfriend and I don't know if it ever crossed her mind that maybe, she could offer me to meet those people, just like I always included her in my plans. 

I never asked because I figured that if she wanted to, she would, and I didn't want her to feel pressured. 

I am not a mean nor angry person, but I am starting to feel resentful.

I find that she has some nerve, to neglect this friendship for almost a year and then ask me to swoop in and meet the friends I made in the mean time, while never including me in her social life 🙄

 

But you are right, I will stop talking about the new people I am meeting and I will simply do this. 

Well, the way I see it, you actually don't need to include her with your friends. Personally I don't think it's an obligation or anything like that. I have many friends myself and I'm in two different friendship groups and also have a couple of close friends who aren't in those groups. For example, I'm in a group of four women I've known for 25 years from school. I'm also in another group which is like five women and one man. Then I have a female best friend who isn't in those groups. If I have a Birthday party I do invite all my friends. But other than that I don't invite them out all together. That's not because I don't want to or I'm being possessive of my friends. We just don't have expectations that we need to invite others when we catch up. Even in that group of five women and a guy, sometimes some of us will catch up separately. E.g. Just me and guy friend. We are chill and don't think anything if some people want to have some one-on-one time.

 

[Kwothe28]

3 minutes ago, Shycarrot said:

I am just wondering if I should at least tell her how I feel, using this kind of tools : 

No. Because I dont think its necessary when you can simply go your own way. Friends are not romantic relationships. You dont need to break up or try to mend something that is clearly no longer working. You both can go your own way. She with her boyfriend and you with your new friends. Lots of friends just dont hang anymore and thats it. There is no need to take it so personally. Again, lots of friends just go their own way, whether its because of outside circumstances or just grow apart in time. 

[Tinydance]

Look I don't blame you for being disappointed in your friend. I agree it's upsetting that she seems to be putting no effort into your friendship anymore. Or not much anyway. However I'm really noticing from your posts that you do have some kind of unhealthy attachment to your friend. You also have unhealthy expectations of what friendship is supposed to be like.

This is my opinion...While friends are meant to be supportive, they don't actually have a responsibility towards you to have your life organised. For example, if you're struggling to find a job, yes it would be nice if they got you a job at their work or their connections. But they don't HAVE to do it. It doesn’t make them a bad friend if they don't.

I think it's the same with making friends. If your friend has other friends, they don't have a responsibility towards you to invite you out with them and make sure you have friends too. If they want to catch up with those people on their own it's fine. It's unfortunate that at that time you didn't have friends and were lonely. But it's not your friend's job or responsibility to make sure you're not lonely and take you out with her boyfriend or friends. As an adult you need to look after yourself. If you're looking for a job, you don't expect your friend to write your resume and job applications, right? You have to do that on your own.

I just think it's a bit weird that you have this resentment towards your friend because you didn't know anyone but she did. You said you moved away for some years and you lost touch with people. That's not her fault. I understand you were lonely but you ended up in that situation because of the circumstances. It wasn't your friend's fault and she didn't need to help "fix it". If she's enjoying spending time with her boyfriend that's normal. He obviously has a group of friends and he asks her to come along so she does. She said she can come along with your group too. There are also people who actually prefer to hang out in a group sometimes. Rather than just doing a lot of one-on-one catch ups. 

Also as has been discussed before, people change sometimes as life goes on. It seems you want like a female best friend (preferably single). You want a female bestie that you go out and do things with, have deep conversations, etc. Well she isn't actually single now, she's spending time with her boyfriend and she's studying. Her life has changed and she's living that life now. It's not reasonable that you're still expecting her to fit in with your expectations of that single, free bestie. This is what YOU want but she's not that anymore.

[Shycarrot]

8 minutes ago, Kwothe28 said:

You dont need to break up or try to mend something that is clearly no longer working. You both can go your own way. She with her boyfriend and you with your new friends. Lots of friends just dont hang anymore and thats it. There is no need to take it so personally. Again, lots of friends just go their own way, whether its because of outside circumstances or just grow apart in time. 

Thank you for your reply. 

I am pretty sure in her case, she does not feel like she is ditching me or like our friendship is ending at all. I am perfectly sure that if she ever breaks up with her guy (I hope not), she'll come back as if nothing happened. 

But for me, friendship are based on mutual efforts and you can't just withdraw from one and come back as you please. 

Acquaintances or casual friends, maybe, but not close friends 

[Wiseman2]

41 minutes ago, Shycarrot said:

But when you never checks on me, take weeks to reply to my texts, are way less , I agree that she can manage her time as she pleases.

I am just wondering if I should at least tell her how I feel, using this kind of tools ..

Please try to sort this out within yourself. She's not your therapist.  

"I" statements are one of the worst trends. They're passive aggressive and manipulative. Because not only do they dress up blame with psychobabble, they attempt to make someone else responsible for your feelings and guilt trip them.

  If you're determined to tell her off, at least be straight up about it. Skip the gaslighting.