Am I too needy ?

[boltnrun]

If being late was a one time thing I don't think it's a big deal. Things happen. But if you were routinely late that would be different. Being routinely late tells me the person is inconsiderate of others and thinks they're more important than anyone else. But one time? Definitely forgivable.

I would put this friend in the category of "casual friend". Not close friend. That way you won't continue to be disappointed when she doesn't communicate the way you feel a close friend should. 

[Batya33]

1 hour ago, Shycarrot said:

Thank you so much for your reply 

I don't expect practical support from my friends when I am undergoing a medical procedure, not at all. Sorry if that was not clear !

I was touched that she offered it, but I declined ! I drove there myself and really, did not expect anyone to come !

It's just that she knew it was such a big deal to me, and to only "like" my message ... is very disappointing to me. 

I guess I do value emotional support.

One could argue that I did not specifically ask for it and I went to the procedure months after I shared my concerns with her, so in her mind, maybe I did not need that much reassurance ?

Having said that, she was more communicative before. 

I just have to learn to rely less on her 

 

It's rarely the case and when that happens, I am never 40 min late 😅

They had already ordered food when I arrived, and I perfectly understood. I just told them the truth, that I missed the bus, had to come home and take my car ! I think I planned poorly as well.  

I know it was rude. I was very sorry.

I am happy for your mammogram results though 🙂 

It wasn’t rude to be late as you described. It happens ! Thanks so much about my mammogram / I worry every year. I really appreciate it. I think you sound like a well meaning well intentioned friend and you find it challenging to balance your need for more space perhaps as an introvert and being there for people. Totally relate to wanting emotional support. I hope it helps to post here. 

[Shycarrot]

2 hours ago, boltnrun said:

I would put this friend in the category of "casual friend". Not close friend. 

It really hurts to hear that, but thanks for your input ! Deep down, I know you are right. 

Just to be sure : I should stop contacting her, continue meeting new people (and hopefully making close friends, as I have none in my city) and stop telling her about my life, is that right ? 

2 hours ago, boltnrun said:

That way you won't continue to be disappointed when she doesn't communicate the way you feel a close friend should. 

I see. Was I asking for too much ?

We have always been close so this change is disturbing

 

 

 

[Shycarrot]

2 hours ago, Batya33 said:

Thanks so much about my mammogram / I worry every year. I really appreciate it.

You are welcome 🙂 

2 hours ago, Batya33 said:

you find it challenging to balance your need for more space perhaps as an introvert and being there for people

I am not sure I understood, sorry, could you please explain ? Thanks! 

 

2 hours ago, Batya33 said:

I think you sound like a well meaning well intentioned friend

Thank you 🙂 

[boltnrun]

14 minutes ago, Shycarrot said:

It really hurts to hear that, but thanks for your input ! Deep down, I know you are right. 

Just to be sure : I should stop contacting her, continue meeting new people (and hopefully making close friends, as I have none in my city) and stop telling her about my life, is that right ? 

I see. Was I asking for too much ?

We have always been close so this change is disturbing

 

 

 

I don't think you need to stop contacting her, but maybe make it an occasional check in instead of a regular occurrence.

No, I don't know that you were "asking too much" but more that she wasn't giving as much. So alter your expectations down to what a more casual friend would do. 

And yes, it's a great idea to look  into ways to meet new people. 

[catfeeder]

5 hours ago, Batya33 said:

You seem to have more than typical expectations of friends having a role of being there for you on a practical level when it comes to a medical procedure -am I reading that right?

...But it seems to almost be an expectation on your end -is it? Sorry if I read wrong.

I don't view accepting such an offer as atypical at all, especially when a friend volunteers.

We can't see into the future to know that a friend might subsequently fall for a guy to the exclusion of the slightest tending to our friendship. Based on the friend's behavior since that time, I'd also likely view such an offer as no longer valid given her singular focus at present.

Honestly, Bat, I don't know why you are using the term 'expectation' so pointedly.

[catfeeder]

1 hour ago, Shycarrot said:

4 hours ago, boltnrun said:

I would put this friend in the category of "casual friend". Not close friend. 

It really hurts to hear that, but thanks for your input ! Deep down, I know you are right. 

Awww, understandable. It may not hurt so much if you consider friendships as going through cycles over time. Even the closest of friendships can diverge now and then. This doesn't mean you can't ever be close again, but you've been smart to recognize that your degree of investment isn't reciprocal at this time.

Does falling in love excuse us from hurting other loved ones with neglect? No, but that doesn't mean that people won't do it. And yes, it does hurt. I think when we've been hurt, we feel vulnerable, and that's often a time we're willing to question our own behaviors as contributing to this outcome. That's IF we are healthy.

So, look at you--you're not hostile, you're not reacting with denials and defenses. You're legitimately open to the idea that maybe you're suffering because of reasons beyond your friend's unthoughtful treatment.

That's healthy. As long as you don't drill yourself into the kind of spin where you come out the other side feeling unworthy, full of invented self-blame and as 'less than' deserving of reciprocal love and caring, then you are golden. It just doesn't feel so great right now. That's natural.

Head high, and write more if it helps.

[Batya33]

6 hours ago, Shycarrot said:

You are welcome 🙂 

I am not sure I understood, sorry, could you please explain ? Thanks! 

 

Thank you 🙂 

Sorry! I meant -you seem to need more space than average - so then you worry that you're not in touch enough with a good friend and when you feel ignored you wonder whether it's your "fault."  

[Batya33]

4 hours ago, catfeeder said:

I don't view accepting such an offer as atypical at all, especially when a friend volunteers.

We can't see into the future to know that a friend might subsequently fall for a guy to the exclusion of the slightest tending to our friendship. Based on the friend's behavior since that time, I'd also likely view such an offer as no longer valid given her singular focus at present.

Honestly, Bat, I don't know why you are using the term 'expectation' so pointedly.

She later clarified. I read her original post to mean she expected her friend to offer to drive her to a medical appointment, etc.  I read wrong and in my later post I thanked her or clarifying. (I found one of my posts but I thought I'd posted specifically that - and I've had trouble posting here -technical issues) Accepting the offer is totally fine of course! I think often expectations that don't align can cause conflicts in friendships.

[Wiseman2]

On 12/13/2023 at 10:45 AM, Shycarrot said:

 she got in a relationship in October.  Since she went back to college, she has to study for her exams that take place on January. She politely declined and said that she'll be free after her exams.

Sorry this is happening. It seems like she has a plate full of new stuff from going back to university to a new relationship. Please don't get involved in her relationship. Even if you disapprove, it's her business. 

Perhaps step back as she mentioned to others, until her exams are through and she has more time.

You're doing the right thing keeping busy and making new friends. Please make sure your disapproval of her relationship is not expressed because that could be why she's avoiding you. 

No matter how close any friendship is, it's always important to stay in your own lane, even if you mean well with "concerns". Step back, breathe, enjoy other people places and things. 

[Shycarrot]

12 hours ago, Wiseman2 said:

Sorry this is happening. It seems like she has a plate full of new stuff from going back to university to a new relationship. Please don't get involved in her relationship. Even if you disapprove, it's her business. 

Perhaps step back as she mentioned to others, until her exams are through and she has more time

Thank you very much, I posted an update about the situation yesterday : she took all her exams on early January but the situation has not changed much. 

I would never criticize her boyfriend and I never have ! I only told her to be cautious in the beginning but I stopped after that because it was seemingly going well 😉 

12 hours ago, Wiseman2 said:

You're doing the right thing keeping busy and making new friends

I am trying hard lol. 

The good news is, even if I don't necessarily match with the people I meet, I still enjoy spending time getting to know new people. It's great to tackle loneliness !

18 hours ago, boltnrun said:

No, I don't know that you were "asking too much" but more that she wasn't giving as much. So alter your expectations down to what a more casual friend would do. 

And yes, it's a great idea to look  into ways to meet new people. 

Understood 🙂 Thank you ! 

17 hours ago, catfeeder said:

Awww, understandable. It may not hurt so much if you consider friendships as going through cycles over time. Even the closest of friendships can diverge now and then

Thank you so much for your compassionate reply ❤️

I try to remind myself that I also went through period of times when I was very busy with work, and hence, less available. 

Also, I find relationships really stressful due to a deep-rooted fear of intimacy (I come from an abusive household and I am working on it with a therapist). That's why I never go through "honeymoon periods" when everything is sunshine and rainbows... Instead, I am panicky, have trouble trusting and opening up to my partner, I have an urge to escape ... 

That's truly awful.

What I am trying to say is that because of that, I never disappear into relationships. But it's only because I can't experience them the way others people do. 

I have only had one boyfriend for a few months and I remember I saw my friend weekly, and she helped me deal with my anxieties, pointing out when I was self-sabotaging ... 

We also talked about the guy she was seing at the time and about others personal issues. I mean, the friendship was not only dedicated to me 😅

17 hours ago, catfeeder said:

Does falling in love excuse us from hurting other loved ones with neglect? No, but that doesn't mean that people won't do it. And yes, it does hurt.

 

17 hours ago, catfeeder said:

That's healthy. As long as you don't drill yourself into the kind of spin where you come out the other side feeling unworthy, full of invented self-blame and as 'less than' deserving of reciprocal love and caring, then you are golden. It just doesn't feel so great right now. That's natural.

 

Thank you so much for this ❤️

I will go through this ! 🙂 

[Batya33]

I'm sorry you feel lonely.  Do you feel less lonely when you're sort of buried in work? I understand intimacy feels scary to you and it sounds like you've actively worked on that when faced with the fear. As far as telling your friend to be careful I mean for so many people that's a knee jerk reaction and sure certain friends might take it the wrong way. 

The only caution I'll give -based on a personal experience I had with a grad school classmate who was a close friend -was - is that if the friend complains a lot about her partner to you - try to keep careful boundaries -I've found - and have other examples -if that good friend then ends up with the guy she complained about she may not want you in her life as a reminder of the past -even if you were supportive! It's -to me- a good thing to keep in mind.

Good luck and please do keep posting if it helps.

[Wiseman2]

2 hours ago, Shycarrot said:

 I only told her to be cautious in the beginning but I stopped after that because it was seemingly going well.

That's good news. Try to avoid discussing relationships if your ideas differ too much. It's understandable some friends want to be each other's relationship/dating coaches, but unfortunately that may backfire. 

[Shycarrot]

11 hours ago, Batya33 said:

I'm sorry you feel lonely.  Do you feel less lonely when you're sort of buried in work?

Thank you. 

I am a doctor, it's great to interact with patients and I really love my job ! But at the same time, I can not "befriend" them, I have to keep things professional. So even though I take care of people all day long, it does not scratch that itch of emotional intimacy.

Plus, my colleagues are in their 40's so I can not bond with them either. 

11 hours ago, Batya33 said:

As far as telling your friend to be careful I mean for so many people that's a knee jerk reaction and sure certain friends might take it the wrong way. 

Oh sure, I forgot to say she did asked how I felt about this guy ! I just advised her to be cautious in the beginning

11 hours ago, Batya33 said:

-if that good friend then ends up with the guy she complained about she may not want you in her life as a reminder of the past

Yes, I see what you are saying and  I am sorry you went through this ! 

Regarding my friend, I really hope everything is going well between her and that guy. Hopefully, she won't have anything negative to say about him when I see her in two weeks. 

11 hours ago, Batya33 said:

Good luck and please do keep posting if it helps.

Thank you so much, but I don't want to be a burden lol. 

The responses I got in this thread are really helping though, I like to come back to them when I am in a bad place. So thank you again ❤️

8 hours ago, Wiseman2 said:

It's understandable some friends want to be each other's relationship/dating coaches, but unfortunately that may backfire. 

I understand

[catfeeder]

30 minutes ago, Shycarrot said:

Plus, my colleagues are in their 40's so I can not bond with them either. 

Oh, yes you can. Get to know as many of them as possible and consider who might become a great mentor for you. This could be professional, it could be as a friendly life coach. It could be more than one person, each adding a different perspective as you navigate life.

I don't have words to describe the value I found in befriending people even older than 40's over the course of my career. They'd seen and been where I had not, and their input was invaluable. They helped me to relax and grow into myself in ways that would never have occurred to me. They were generous with help even when they had no personal benefit beyond paying forward what they had been given by their own mentors over time.

[Batya33]

2 minutes ago, catfeeder said:

Oh, yes you can. Get to know as many of them as possible and consider who might become a great mentor for you. This could be professional, it could be as a friendly life coach. It could be more than one person, each adding a different perspective as you navigate life.

I don't have words to describe the value I found in befriending people even older than 40's over the course of my career. They'd seen and been where I had not, and their input was invaluable. They helped me to relax and grow into myself in ways that would never have occurred to me. They were generous with help even when they had no personal benefit beyond paying forward what they had been given by their own mentors over time.

Same a hundred times over. One of my dearest friends was 15 years older than me. Met when I was 23. Also was my boss after her daughter was in my class and a mentor and my son’s sitter !! She tragically passed away 2 years ago and her daughter and I are back in touch. More examples like that. 
Why did you advise your friend to be “cautious “ - was there an issue ?

[Shycarrot]

16 hours ago, Batya33 said:

Why did you advise your friend to be “cautious “ - was there an issue ?

The guy she started dating is her college professor and is 10 years older. At the time, she did not know if she would ever be in his class again. We don't talk much, so I don't know if that's the case, but there was a chance she would still be her student on the current semester.

16 hours ago, catfeeder said:

Oh, yes you can. Get to know as many of them as possible and consider who might become a great mentor for you. This could be professional, it could be as a friendly life coach. It could be more than one person, each adding a different perspective as you navigate life.

 

 

16 hours ago, Batya33 said:

Same a hundred times over. One of my dearest friends was 15 years older than me. Met when I was 23. Also was my boss after her daughter was in my class and a mentor and my son’s sitter !!

Thank you so much for your advice ! 🙂 

Yes, it's true, friendship transcend age 😉

It's just that in my case, I work in different places as a substitute doctor. So it's just a bit more complicated but I try to interact with my coworkers as much as possible 

[Batya33]

1 hour ago, Shycarrot said:

The guy she started dating is her college professor and is 10 years older. At the time, she did not know if she would ever be in his class again. We don't talk much, so I don't know if that's the case, but there was a chance she would still be her student on the current semester.

So - yes - did you think she did not know of the age difference or the potential professor-student conflict? (Just me! I try not to give advice if the person already knows the situation and totally fine if you feel differently).  I originally met my husband at work so I'm sure certain friends had /would have had something to say about that lol.  And my mom was/is always allowed to give unsolicited advice (which she did when he and I were dating 2 months lol).  

[Shycarrot]

25 minutes ago, Batya33 said:

So - yes - did you think she did not know of the age difference or the potential professor-student conflict?

Don't worry.

She literally said "he's my teacher and I am worried about the age-gap, don't you think it's weird that I am dating him ?" 

[Batya33]

22 minutes ago, Shycarrot said:

Don't worry.

She literally said "he's my teacher and I am worried about the age-gap, don't you think it's weird that I am dating him ?" 

Oh goodness. I'm glad you were able to be there for her.  It is weird.

[Shycarrot]

12 hours ago, Batya33 said:

Oh goodness. I'm glad you were able to be there for her.  It is weird.

Honestly, I think it’s going well for her 😊 

As her friend, I was worried at first, but it’s by far the healthiest relationship she’s had. 
 

 

 

[Tinydance]

Sorry I'm probably too lazy to read over all the previous replies again lol So was this your best/really close friend? I mean, I do get the sense you were once close but it also sounds like she's actually your only friend. The reason why I wanted to clarify is because when someone is your only friend, YOU probably feel they're your bestest bestie, but they might have other people in their life and not see you as their "number one".

I think one part of the problem is that you do only have this one friend and therefore you really notice that she's become a lot busier and isn't as available to you anymore. I'm pretty sure I already wrote all this before but my best friend got a partner, got married and had kids and our friendship changed very drastically. She's still my best friend but for 16 years now since she met her husband we don't actually catch up or talk that much. We catch up maybe once a couple or a few months and we talk every few weeks. The thing is I have a lot of friends so during the times I don't interact with her, I just hang out with my other friends. 

Even if hypothetically this friend isn't reaching out to you as much anymore, you can't just sit there by your phone waiting to hear from her. You need to get out there and meet new people and find new friends. You really can't just put all your thoughts and efforts onto only this one person. That's not to say that she should be ditching you for a guy but it doesn't sound like she totally ditched you. She does still message you occasionally or ask to catch up but it's not as frequent. The thing is that as you get older this does happen in life. For example if someone is married with kids, no they shouldn't ditch you but they have to spend most of their time with their family. They simply can't just go out with friends every single weekend and ignore their spouse and children.

It's actually not your friend's fault that she found a partner but you have anxieties about dating. That's your responsibility to work on that, which you are so that's great! It's also not your friend's responsibility to make sure you're not lonely - it's yours. I don't think she necessarily doesn't care about you at all but she just has a life of her own. You really need a life of your own as well.

[Tinydance]

I don't really see why you're making a big deal about the professor boyfriend? To me it would depend on the actual situation in which they started dating and what is the university policy on dating. They might not have been breaching the policy. If he was her professor in the past but hasn't been since then, then he's not dating his student as such because she isn't currently his student. Or if she's finished the course then she's not a student there at all.

Also the ten year age gap is only weird in certain circumstances. If the student is 18 and professor 28 yeah it seems like a big age gap. But let's say if the student is 28 and professor 38 it's not that bad. Ten years isn't that large an age gap once you hit your mid to late 20's and the other person is older.

[Batya33]

1 hour ago, Tinydance said:

I don't really see why you're making a big deal about the professor boyfriend? To me it would depend on the actual situation in which they started dating and what is the university policy on dating. They might not have been breaching the policy. If he was her professor in the past but hasn't been since then, then he's not dating his student as such because she isn't currently his student. Or if she's finished the course then she's not a student there at all.

Also the ten year age gap is only weird in certain circumstances. If the student is 18 and professor 28 yeah it seems like a big age gap. But let's say if the student is 28 and professor 38 it's not that bad. Ten years isn't that large an age gap once you hit your mid to late 20's and the other person is older.

From what she explained her friend asked her for input as to whether the situation was "weird".  I love your input -I hope it helps the OP.

[Tinydance]

On 12/14/2023 at 2:45 AM, Shycarrot said:

Her boyfriend used to be her Professor last year and she offered him to grab a coffee last august. That's how they met. She told me he's helping her study, which I find a bit disturbing to be honest but maybe that's just me ?

OK I did go back and read the original post lol So even if their relationship is "weird", your friend was actually the one who pursued him so she initiated it. And I don't think we could really say that she's just a naive teenage girl because she's 29 + years old lol I also see here that he "used to be her professor last year" so that seems like a very long time ago. The original post was in December so to be "last year" would need to be nearly a whole year earlier that he was her professor.

Another thing about her not confiding in you about her dating is that maybe she senses that you don't really approve of her relationship?