Am I too needy ?

[Batya33]

4 hours ago, Shycarrot said:

When I say I don't want to feel smothered, what I mean is that I want someone who can also be happy on his own and is quite an independent person.  I can't be someone's sole source of happiness, that would be suffocating for me. 

This is so odd - I mean no one wants a person who would behave this way so why is it some sort of standard for you? Most people in healthy relationships are independent - and would never look to someone else as a sole source of happiness- this seems to be a peculiar concern of yours.

[Batya33]

4 hours ago, Shycarrot said:

Thank you. Don't you think I am being judgy when I try to avoid men who are smokers/heavy drinkers/drug users ?

Sorry, I don't want to ask too many question

Judgy? We all judge who we think would be a good match.  These were always dealbreakers for me and I smoked cigarettes for a year as a teenager.  I never tried an illegal drug and I wouldn't have dated someone who used drugs then or was a heavy drinker -these were the only "no" in my dating profile online.  I would have been friends with someone who smoked.  I wouldn't have been good friends with someone who regularly drank a lot or at least had strict boundaries.  I was and am friendly with people who smoke pot with boundaries.  Not stronger drugs though.  

[Starlight925]

I'm so sorry that you and your friend are not back on track.

You said she suffers from depression which is abated by romantic relationships.  Do you know if she has a doctor, does she take anything?  

This professor guy is her Mr. Right Now.  She's said he doesn't show empathy; there is probably much more she does not share.  

I completely understand your situation, as the situation with my friend in a very similar scenario, which I wrote about earlier in your thread, has gone to zero contact.  We haven't spoken since December, and she's only barely responded to my texts.  We are much older than you (60's), so proof that age does not diminish these feelings of depression/addiction to romantic relationship/pulling away from friends.

In my situation, this friend has also pulled away from other friends, so I'll ask:  Has your friend pulled away from others that you know of, or just you?

Keep your door open, as she may contact you at some point, realizing that she misses you.

In my situation, the deafening silence from this friend with whom I spoke almost daily has caused me to evaluate some things.  Like you, I feel the loneliness, the emptiness of not having someone to have deeper conversations.  

But the silence has also made me realize that most of the deeper conversations were about her, and about us analyzing her life.

She often said I should be a therapist, as I'm so "good" at this.  But the silence has made me realize that I was basically an unpaid therapist to her traumas.  My traumas have been healed with very deep dive therapy; hers are band-aided by men, alcohol, and long phone calls to whoever will listen and agree with her.

I bring all this up not to derail your thread, but to see if you see any similarities.  

This all came up the other night with some other friends of mine, one of whom has gone through very deep trauma therapy and now counsels women in DV situations.  She brought up that if "family of origin" trauma isn't thoroughly analyzed and healed, the patterns will continue through life.  My friend is close to 70, and she's still cycling through this.

So, what to do?

You've received excellent feedback so far!  I love this board, and the people who contribute!

I've realized I was too much invested in her calls, her texts, her stories.

I've had to get out and meet....gasp....other people, lol.

Here are my examples, that I probably wouldn't have done, had she & I still been so bonded:

-A friend & her husband hosted NFL playoff & Super Bowl parties.  I am not a huge football fan, and I literally almost didn't go, within 5 minutes of leaving.  But, guess what?  There were some other really nice, cool women there, and I've done some things with them!

-I found a local women's group (similar to a Meetup, which is also great).  The women were so unbelievably kind, welcoming, and talkative with me, after just the first lunch.  They were so excited for me when I won the small door prize!  I'm like, wow, it's so nice to meet new people.  One has already texted me.

-I've started saying Yes to things.  I was invited to a "sound bowl meditation" thing, which I'd normally have blown off.  I'm going!

Meetup is a great way to meet new people, or you could start your own group.  In 2019, I joined two different groups, both run by women (one was in her 30's, one in her 40's), for walking, museums, wine tasting, book clubs, etc.  They were so nice and well attended.   They haven't re-started after Covid, but you know what?  Let's start some new groups!

The Meetup by the woman in her 30's was started by an ER nurse (again, prior to Covid), who just didn't have time to meet women, so she said she had no female friends.  She was a doll.  She said she was so scared to start a group, and started is as a "XYZ Neighborhood Women's Walking Group".  For the first "meeting", she said "How about a Sunday Brunch"?  She had to reserve an entire room for 30 people, as it was that well attended.

If I'm being completely honest, my feelings are still hurt, and I do miss the friendship.  And my door is open to her still, but I'm filling my life in the meantime.

Girl, you got this.  I have a feeling you're a great gal who will find new friends.  And when this one pops back up (which I bet she will), you'll be in a much "fuller" space, where she won't be the be-all-end-all friend, but she'll be a nice addition to your life.

 

[Shycarrot]

20 hours ago, Batya33 said:

Most people in healthy relationships are independent - and would never look to someone else as a sole source of happiness- this seems to be a peculiar concern of yours

I can assure many people among my friends and family tie their happiness to their relationship status, assuming everything will fall into place and they will finally be happy once they enter a relationship. My ex also told me he was deeply unhappy before he met me, and that he "counted" on our relationship to fix him.

Of course, it's normal to help and support a partner and I would do that. But one should not expect the person you are dating to "fix" his issues, or to bring him happiness when he's unhappy.

19 hours ago, Batya33 said:

Judgy? We all judge who we think would be a good match.  These were always dealbreakers for me and I smoked cigarettes for a year as a teenager.  I never tried an illegal drug and I wouldn't have dated someone who used drugs then or was a heavy drinker -these were the only "no" in my dating profile online.  I would have been friends with someone who smoked.  I wouldn't have been good friends with someone who regularly drank a lot or at least had strict boundaries.  I was and am friendly with people who smoke pot with boundaries.  Not stronger drugs though.  

Thank you very much 🙂 

7 hours ago, Starlight925 said:

You said she suffers from depression which is abated by romantic relationships.  Do you know if she has a doctor, does she take anything?  

Thank you for your reply ! 🙂 

No, she has never taken antidepressant but she has been in therapy for a decade.

7 hours ago, Starlight925 said:

This professor guy is her Mr. Right Now.  She's said he doesn't show empathy; there is probably much more she does not share.

As her friend, I really hope not ! I read some old texts today and I realize she stopped talking about her feelings somewhere in October. Before that, she shared a lot of details about her dates with this guy, about how the relationship was progressing. So I don't know how it is going. Having said that, she's a grown and intelligent women, I am sure she can trusts her instincts if something's wrong.

7 hours ago, Starlight925 said:

I completely understand your situation, as the situation with my friend in a very similar scenario, which I wrote about earlier in your thread, has gone to zero contact

I am truly sorry 😔

 

7 hours ago, Starlight925 said:

n my situation, this friend has also pulled away from other friends, so I'll ask:  Has your friend pulled away from others that you know of, or just you?

She has pulled away from everyone, not just me.

7 hours ago, Starlight925 said:

But the silence has also made me realize that most of the deeper conversations were about her, and about us analyzing her life.

Again, I am very sorry. 

It seems like you supported her a lot through her issues, but she isn't willing to reciprocate, especially now that she's found someone. That must hurt, I send you a virtual hug and I hope you feel better soon ❤️

7 hours ago, Starlight925 said:

You've received excellent feedback so far!

I agree 🙂 This thread has helped me tremendously and I am really grateful ! 

It's great that you have found ways to fill your life ! The silver lining is that we were forced, somehow, to go and interact with more people and to pursue new hobbies ! 

To be fair, I have always yearned to attend a ballet class, ice skating and tango lessons ! I also wanted to socialize more, but I realize I was keeping myself from doing so because I felt that one close friend was enough 😅 (silly me) Plus, she was not in a good place before her relationship so I had to give her a lot of time. 

Now that she's focused on her new boyfriend, I am doing all these things for me 🙂

7 hours ago, Starlight925 said:

If I'm being completely honest, my feelings are still hurt, and I do miss the friendship.  And my door is open to her still, but I'm filling my life in the meantime.

I feel you. It's normal to feel hurt. Hopefully, this will fade in time 😉 

 

[Batya33]

Just now, Shycarrot said:

can assure many people among my friends and family tie their happiness to their relationship status, assuming everything will fall into place and they will finally be happy once they enter a relationship. My ex also told me he was deeply unhappy before he met me, and that he "counted" on a good relationship to fix him.

Of course, it's normal to help and support a partner and I would do that. But one should not expect the person you are dating to "fix" your issues, or to bring you happiness when you're unhappy.

So? Many people feel and think many things! Who cares what "one" should do or not do - you do you unless it's your job but I don't think you're a therapist or relationship or dating coach.  Many young women feel this way about their wedding day or dream of meeting their prince -so what -again, you do you if that doesn't make sense.  Doesn't matter at all if "many" do.  I knew for sure that marriage to the right person and the opportunity to try to have a baby were my main life goals (the other was to be well educated/career) - it wasn't about "status" it was about what I wanted in my life.  I knew without marriage and being a parent I would not feel totally fulfilled as a person . I know other people who do not want to be married, others who do not want children. It's all good. I was right about my goals - I feel like I won the lottery finding the right person and getting pregnant in the nick of time. 

I had no issues to fix, I wasn't unhappy - and for me having life goals was as natural as breathing.  Couldn't care less if that is not how other people feel.  Why do you care so much and why are you so focused on the potentially negative aspects of unhealthy relationships?

[Shycarrot]

On 2/26/2024 at 10:45 PM, Batya33 said:

Why do you care so much and why are you so focused on the potentially negative aspects of unhealthy relationships?

Because I am just scared to mimic them, I guess ? 

Anyway, I finally saw my friend yesterday. 

I have mixed feelings about our meeting. 

First thing first, I am happy to see that she is in a good relationship and that her boyfriend seems kind and supporting. That's great and it's really important in the following context.

I was sad to see her struggling with her mental health. She admitted that she went through difficult times and that she had days when she barely got out of bed, felt like a burden, powerless...

She said her boyfriend was understanding, patient and didn't pressure her to go out. I feel relieved that she could, at least to some extent, count on him for support. 

I know she has always been like this. But in my stupid mind, this would have been partially improved once she found someone, because she always put a great emphasis on romance. 

I feel awful to be honest. I was in my own head so much that I let my insecurities and my irrational fears (of being ditched for a partner) get the best of me, to the point of not even being a good friend anymore. 

I feel guilty for not contacting her these last weeks, I hope my silence wasn't detrimental to her mental state. 

We had a long and honest conversation in which I apologized for not checking on her. I asked her if I could do anything to help her. 

She said that I was already one of her safe places and that listening to her was good for her. 

But sadly, there wasn't much I could do. 

It's so unfair, that some people have to spend most of their lives struggling with this... 

And she's such a beautiful person inside and out, she deserves to be happy ! 

She asked to come with me to a social event next week because she would like to meet other people that her boyfriend's friend. 

I decided to be vulnerable so I told her I was just scared to end up alone with everyone around me pairing up and no one prioritizing me. (it was not out of context, I did not jump for her mental health conversation to this, that would be insensitive). 

And I think she told me what I needed to hear : that all forms of love were valuable and that if I had a strong social network (ie good friends, neighbors ...), I would be okay. 

She said that romantic love wasn't necessarily above other forms of love, at least in her mind. We ended up saying we were glad to have each other in our lives. 

To sum it up : 

I am too much in my head and that leads me to imagine worst-case-scenarios, when the reality isn't always as dark. I hope I can be a better friend to her in the future, and I truly truly hope her mental health will somewhat improve. 

Thank you again for your tremendous help ❤️

I just can't thank you enough

 

[Batya33]

14 minutes ago, Shycarrot said:

Because I am just scared to mimic them, I guess ? 

Why would you -an intelligent, educated, stable person copy someone like a monkey if it wasn't in your best interests? I was surrounded by people who got drunk, did drugs, had multiple sex partners, who had babies on their own by choice, who saw college degrees as just a piece of paper, and marriage certificates too, who looked to marry wealthy men so they didn't "have to work", who went bungee jumping, had one night stands, lied on their resumes, lied about their ages, converted to Budhism or another religion, and on and on. I did none of those things despite being immersed in it - not all of that is bad of course but wasn't right for me. 

Are you your own person?? So if so why in the world would  you feel like you're someone who just "mimics?" 

I think your friend is right and she is so thoughtful.  Same kind of stuff was said to me when I was single.  I took it as well meaning and well intentioned and also largely irrelevant to me.  I knew what my life goals were so having forms of "valuable love" that weren't in the marital/parenting context was -nice- but wouldn't fulfil me and I was bluntly honest with myself about that. Romantic love isn't "above" necessarily but I wasn't looking only for romantic love -but for the right person to marry and have a family with. 

Romantic love is one part of that and not at all the whole thing in the sort of marriage I was looking for (and for me that turned out to be 100% right and I am reminded of that regularly).

Given no guarantees of course I also created and maintained a fun and fulfilling life so even if I didn't fulfil my life goals I would be "okay".  Rationalizing didn't work for me, personally and sometimes my friend's well meaning stuff got on my nerves but I knew it came from a good place.

Your friend found someone who for now is willing to do this extra work/effort with a new girlfriend who has significant mental health concerns.  I'm sure you didn't make it worse by the way. Time will tell as far as what he is willing t sign up for.

[catfeeder]

6 hours ago, Batya33 said:

... I was surrounded by people who got drunk, did drugs, had multiple sex partners [...] I did none of those things despite being immersed in it - not all of that is bad of course but wasn't right for me. 

OP, I think @Batya33 makes a great point that cautions against holding onto rote assumptions that, at one time may have felt comforting in the face of remaining single while others coupled up, but with habitual use may have become a saboteur of your desire to overcome discomfort in order to find someone with whom you can couple up, yourself.

I did this, too. I could point to lots of couples who had a dynamic in their relationship that I'd find distasteful, and I could say, "Well, at least I'm not dealing with THAT..." I also confirmed for myself that certain interdependency aspects of relationships could drive me nuts, and so I found it easy to broad brush 'any' committed relationship as potentially making me unhappy.

This is not to say that any true lack of desire you might feel about pursuing a relationship can't be valid, it certainly CAN be. It just means that challenging yourself on holding assumptions that may not be accurate can certainly benefit you regardless of how you may choose to play out your future.

[Batya33]

Agree with Catfeeder. One of my friends who was totally in love with her fiancée while I had doubts about whether I was then with the right person advised me to “Marry him so you can have kids before it’s too late then divorce “.  Obviously that sounded like a terrible idea and I didn’t do it. Ironically she - gorgeous - married her gorgeous fiancée - she was mid 30s and he a few years younger - had two kids. Remember she was over the moon crazy about him. No doubts. They each cheated on each other after about 5 years of marriage or so and divorced after about 7 years of marriage.  

[Shycarrot]

11 hours ago, Batya33 said:

Are you your own person?? So if so why in the world would  you feel like you're someone who just "mimics?" 

Maybe "mimic" is not the right word. 

 

11 hours ago, Batya33 said:

I knew what my life goals were so having forms of "valuable love" that weren't in the marital/parenting context was -nice- but wouldn't fulfil me and I was bluntly honest with myself about that

11 hours ago, Batya33 said:

Rationalizing didn't work for me, personally and sometimes my friend's well meaning stuff got on my nerves but I knew it came from a good place.

I understand and I am sorry you had to feel that way. It's great that everything has fallen into place. 

Personally, I am not sure I want kids. I may want them someday but only if a meet a good partner. I can envision my future without kids, if that's not my path. 

So my friend's piece of advice did actually help me. 

11 hours ago, Batya33 said:

Your friend found someone who for now is willing to do this extra work/effort with a new girlfriend who has significant mental health concerns.  I'm sure you didn't make it worse by the way. Time will tell as far as what he is willing t sign up for.

She's worth it, really. She's one of the strongest, caring and intelligent person I know and I am not saying that because she's my friend. I hope her boyfriend realizes this.

 

3 hours ago, catfeeder said:

I did this, too. I could point to lots of couples who had a dynamic in their relationship that I'd find distasteful, and I could say, "Well, at least I'm not dealing with THAT..." I also confirmed for myself that certain interdependency aspects of relationships could drive me nuts, and so I found it easy to broad brush 'any' committed relationship as potentially making me unhappy.

I am guilty of that ... 

I don't know what it's worth, but I suppose if I meet someone I like, these assumptions will subside ? 

I remember I was like this before I met my ex, enjoying my freedom and independence, thinking I would be less happy in a relationship because I would have less privacy, I would lose my identity blah blah ... I was not in a state where I wanted a bf at the time ! 

But I met him and I started to develop feelings so I pushed everything aside and I made room for him in my life. 

So even if I have wrong assumptions, my guess is that if I meet someone I am really into, they will go out of the window ? I would have to really really like the guy 

Having said that, I should still try to challenge the wrong assumptions while I can, because I suppose I can miss good opportunities because of these 

 

[Batya33]

1 hour ago, Shycarrot said:

So even if I have wrong assumptions, my guess is that if I meet someone I am really into, they will go out of the window ? I would have to really really like the guy 

Having said that, I should still try to challenge the wrong assumptions while I can, because I suppose I can miss good opportunities because of these 

But then you have to "really really like" the guy and people can sense negative vibes/energy about relationships, etc -I always could.

It's great you know you don't want kids -it's so much work and so many sacrifices (to me totally worth it despite again sitting down to dinner a half hour later than I'd wished lol) but I love when people are honest with themselves about not wanting to be a parent.  It's the right thing to do -good for you.

[catfeeder]

46 minutes ago, Shycarrot said:

I should still try to challenge the wrong assumptions while I can, because I suppose I can miss good opportunities because of these 

Yes, that's exactly why I'm punching the point made by @Batya33. Such assumptions may fuel the conditioning that is the answer you've been seeking to unlock WHY you haven't been successful in meeting a good match. OR, you may have met some good matches but will never know it because you've curbed your own interest in cultivating enough of an exchange to identify such a match.

It's one thing to say, "I want a great relationship..." it's quite another to expect a great man to fall into your lap. You'll need to actively meet your share of bad matches. Once you can grasp that those lousy odds ARE a natural part of an important screening process rather than 'bad luck' (or whatever else you've been feeding yourself as discouragement), you'll adopt the resilience to roll with it and keep on meeting people. This will prevent you from falling back on whatever assumptions you've been using to lull yourself into complacency.

I'm so glad you met your friend and all is well with your relationship with her. I just hope you won't sink back into regarding that one friend as 'enough' of a social life for you. Keep working the interests you've started discussing and pursue friendships and active ways to meet potential matches--without feeding yourself excuses to go negative.

Head high!

[Shycarrot]

22 minutes ago, catfeeder said:

Once you can grasp that those lousy odds ARE a natural part of an important screening process rather than 'bad luck'

I am getting more and more comfortable with this idea thanks to you and others posters. And I am still trying to make plans to meet new people, as it's one of those things that is under my control

40 minutes ago, catfeeder said:

Such assumptions may fuel the conditioning that is the answer you've been seeking to unlock WHY you haven't been successful in meeting a good match. OR, you may have met some good matches but will never know it because you've curbed your own interest in cultivating enough of an exchange to identify such a match.

I see. But it's very hard to know if I am uninterested because of some conditioning, or if it's because we are genuinely incompatible. 

Plus, I think all of us have some sort of conditioning, so in the end, it levels the playing field.

In the other thread, you mentioned I should not force myself to like someone, like the guy I met in January.

But now, you seem to think that one of the reasons I may be single is because of my negative assumptions about relationships. Are you talking about previous guys, or does this apply to the January guy as well ?

 

52 minutes ago, catfeeder said:

Keep working the interests you've started discussing and pursue friendships and active ways to meet potential matches--without feeding yourself excuses to go negative.

Thank you 🙂

[Shycarrot]

1 hour ago, Batya33 said:

But then you have to "really really like" the guy and people can sense negative vibes/energy about relationships, etc -I always could.

Do you mean I will send negatives vibes if I really like the guy ?

Sorry, I don't understand this sentence 

[Batya33]

38 minutes ago, Shycarrot said:

Do you mean I will send negatives vibes if I really like the guy ?

Sorry, I don't understand this sentence 

Yes. If you’re a person who generally has these negative assumptions it will show in your vibes and energy and most people will sense it’s an uphill battle to win you over. And may not wish to be burdened with that. To say most people have “some conditioning” has nothing to do with your negative assumptions about relationships if you’re also looking for a relationship. I’m conditioned to be scared of certain types of dogs because of having been bitten. I know this. And it doesn’t really affect my life much. But if I felt I was “conditioned “ to believe that all women who wear tight clothing are promiscuous immoral people and allowed myself to go through life that way that sort of assumption might cause lots of regular problems and issues in my life. Silly example - the second one - but just to show what I mean. No I don’t feel that way lol. 

[catfeeder]

19 minutes ago, Shycarrot said:

In the other thread, you mentioned I should not force myself to like someone, like the guy I met in January.

But now, you seem to think that one of the reasons I may be single is because of my negative assumptions about relationships. Are you talking about previous guys, or does this apply to the January guy as well ?

Oh, I see the confusion. This isn't about trying to like anyone you don't like. That stands. But if you assume that you won't like someone before you even try to meet them and get to know them, then that's what's called "contempt prior to investigation." If you've been running enough negative loops about relationships, you won't be inclined to invest the kind of efforts that could conceivably land you the very thing you've been telling yourself that you don't really want.

So your negative assumptions might have served you, at some earlier point in your life, as a convenient premise you used to comfort yourself away from jealousies of your friends' relationships. The problem is, you may have found it easier to relax into those assumptions rather than stay motivated enough to overcome them.

So they've become your self-fulfilling prophesy. "I'm not lucky enough, relationships are not for me, I wouldn't want someone to depend on me, or I wouldn't want to change my life for anyone, anyway..." This is the kind of self hypnosis that can and DOES become 'real'. And so you haven't invested the same efforts as women who ARE motivated enough to build resilience rather than caving to each minor disappointment. Those are huge for you, and they knock you down, while resilient people have learned to roll with them and barely notice them as a blip on their radar. You don't see all the efforts these resilient people have kept up, you only see the results--they are coupled up now. So you invent more negative loops, "It's so easy for everyone else, while it's so hard for me..."

That's the stuff overweight people who can barely walk often tell themselves about the people running by them. But SOME of those walkers hook into motivation from those runners. They say, "Those people had to start somewhere, and I'M going to keep working this until I can do THAT..."

How much have you studied the mind/body connection in terms of healing? Same applies to every area of our lives--we can either make things easier on ourselves with our mental practices, or we can make things more difficult by mental drills into deeper holes we must then climb out of. You get to pick!

[Batya33]

9 hours ago, catfeeder said:

This isn't about trying to like anyone you don't like. That stands.

I agree!!

[Shycarrot]

But I did end up in a relationship, it was just abusive. 

What I mean is that, the negatives loop won't prevent me from entering in a relationship if I find someone interesting and trust-worthy enough. 

From 25 to 27, I never dated. I was too busy with my studies. 

I woke up at 28 ... and have dated a dozen of guys ever since. 

I think the main thing that is holding me back is my fear of intimacy. I was petrified with fear when I had a bf, the fear of being judged, the fear he would be mean, the fear he would not like my body. So, even intimate, positives moments weren't enjoyable. And he did end up dumping me while explaining it was because of some aspects of my personality and appearance 😂

Oh the irony !

That just added to my preexistent traumas because my mom used to belittle me like that. If you ever watched the movie I, Tonya, my mother is very similar. 

The negative self-talk is nothing compared to my fear of intimacy, but I agree both feed each other.

My therapist mentioned doing EMDR to treat it, a month ago, and I finally intend to try it

Receiving these tons of advice in here has been really helpful and I can't thank you enough, but if I am being honest, it's also very triggering, and I have cried countless of times on this page.

It, rightfully so, forces me to delve into the most painful memories and insecurities of mine. You did nothing wrong and I definitely asked for your advice, so thank you ! ❤️

Apart from EMDR, I read that in order to overcome this fear, I had to face it. 

So that's what I am trying to do. I just have to find a respectful and kind guy that won't traumatize me any further. 

I know all kind of human interactions comes with a risk, the risk to suffer and to inflict pain. So I am not avoiding any suffering altogether, but just the kind unnecessary pain that comes from an uncaring and toxic partner. 

I can deal with the rest, as long as he's respectful, kind and well-meaning.

I will keep you updated on the other thread if I find another man to date 🙂 

Thanks again ! 

 

[catfeeder]

47 minutes ago, Shycarrot said:

What I mean is that, the negatives loop won't prevent me from entering in a relationship if I find someone interesting and trust-worthy enough. 

Okay, complete the loop. <<The negative loops won't prevent me from entering a relationship IF I find someone... and so, in order to avoid entering a relationship, I can simply avoid finding someone. >>

See how that works?

47 minutes ago, Shycarrot said:

My therapist mentioned doing EMDR to treat it, a month ago, and I finally intend to try it

Wonderful! I've heard and read great things about this treatment, SC.

I'm so sorry that your ex BF picked up the cruelty where your Mom left off.

There are predatory people who can learn our deepest fears and shame, and they will go for those places as though they're your jugular JUST to inflict the most pain. Your intelligence knows this, but that doesn't change the damage of getting hit where there was already a bruise, and my heart goes out to you. (((HUG)))

[Shycarrot]

Thank you so much ❤️

 

[Tinydance]

Well, first of all I don't think that you HAVE to be in a relationship. You were right in saying that people can value different things and different goals in life. But at the same time I also don't think it's fair to in a sense judge your friend that she does really value romantic relationships and  she really wants to be with someone.

I do get the sense from your posts that you feel jealous not so much of the fact your friend has a boyfriend. But that you're kind of jealous OF the boyfriend that he's taken over your friend. I think there's a difference between your friend completely ditching you like that they don't message you, hardly reply, don't talk much. I could be wrong but I didn't get the sense from your posts that your friend has actually ditched you. She is still talking to you and she did suggest to catch up and you saw each other.

I understand sometimes change can be hard but it happens a lot in life and we need to adapt. It's very common that people settle down, get married and have kids and get very busy. You could have a best friend that you see every weekend and then they have kids and they can hardly go out or need to reschedule because their child got sick, etc. I have friends who got married and they didn't ditch me, we still talk. But they are living a family focused life with their husband kids.

To me it seems that the attachment you have to your friend isn't a hundred percent healthy. You really rely on this friend for your sole companionship and basically have only her to catch up with in your free time. If you really value friendship and having friends over a romantic relationship then I think you need to start expanding your social circle.

Join Meetup groups, social groups, classes. There are even friendship apps like Bumble BFF and Patook. Or Facebook friendship groups. I understand you care about your friend a lot but there's a big wide world out there and there are more people there you can meet.

To me even the example you gave of when you and your friend went to a bar and she started talking to a guy. I was actually talking to someone about the exact same thing recently. I used to go out to bars with my best friend who is really attractive and she would always have guys approach her and she'd be talking to guys. It didn’t feel good but the thing is she DOES really want to meet a guy and have a partner. I also have a pretty unattractive friend so when I went out with her it would be the opposite and guys would talk to me. My unattractive friend would get annoyed that I "ditched" her. But on occasion she'd meet a guy and I'm pretty sure one time she actually just left to go to his place! So when she got the opportunity she did exactly the same thing.

You are not that interested in a relationship but your friend is so when you went to bars you had different agenda. Maybe it's just the way I see it but let's say it was you who met a guy you liked, would you say: "Sorry I'm not interested" and get him to go away because your friend is also there? I mean, maybe you would but I don't think you should actually have to.

[Shycarrot]

On 3/8/2024 at 11:38 PM, Tinydance said:

I do get the sense from your posts that you feel jealous not so much of the fact your friend has a boyfriend. But that you're kind of jealous OF the boyfriend that he's taken over your friend. I think there's a difference between your friend completely ditching you like that they don't message you, hardly reply, don't talk much. I could be wrong but I didn't get the sense from your posts that your friend has actually ditched you. She is still talking to you and she did suggest to catch up and you saw each other.

Yes, I struggled with that at first. But I am doing better now 🙂

I prefer to change my perpective on the subject : if she has found someone who makes her happy to the point that she wants to spend most of her time with him, that's absolutely great. I am happy that she's happy and she deserves it ☺️

She hasn't "ditched" me in the sense that she stopped being my friend, but like you said, there has been some changes in our friendship : we rarely see each other, and even if she insists that I am not bothering her, she seldom if ever replies to my texts, which in turn, makes me feel like I am a burden so I stop contacting her, and she ends up texting me after a month or so. 

But you're right, I have to accept this and I am doing the best I can ! 

On 3/8/2024 at 11:38 PM, Tinydance said:

To me it seems that the attachment you have to your friend isn't a hundred percent healthy. You really rely on this friend for your sole companionship and basically have only her to catch up with in your free time. If you really value friendship and having friends over a romantic relationship then I think you need to start expanding your social circle.

I do have plenty of other friends but most of them live 4 hours away and one is currently abroad 😅

But I have made new friends these past few months so I generally catch up with one or two of them per week. I mean, we're not very close yet but we do get along pretty well and I am happy to see them 🙂 

On 3/8/2024 at 11:38 PM, Tinydance said:

To me even the example you gave of when you and your friend went to a bar and she started talking to a guy. I was actually talking to someone about the exact same thing recently. I used to go out to bars with my best friend who is really attractive and she would always have guys approach her and she'd be talking to guys. It didn’t feel good but the thing is she DOES really want to meet a guy and have a partner. I also have a pretty unattractive friend so when I went out with her it would be the opposite and guys would talk to me. My unattractive friend would get annoyed that I "ditched" her. But on occasion she'd meet a guy and I'm pretty sure one time she actually just left to go to his place! So when she got the opportunity she did exactly the same thing.

You are not that interested in a relationship but your friend is so when you went to bars you had different agenda. Maybe it's just the way I see it but let's say it was you who met a guy you liked, would you say: "Sorry I'm not interested" and get him to go away because your friend is also there? I mean, maybe you would but I don't think you should actually have to.

I don't think I am less attractive than her and generally, both of us attract guys.

She did not flirt with guys in bar because she wanted to find a partner, she did it to have fun and it's perfectly okay. 

But she could have told me "listen, I am really looking for a partner and/or to flirt tonight, is that okay ?". That would have been completely different, and I would have understood, but that did not happen.  

If you haven't had a conversation about that beforehand, I find that leaving your friend alone without checking once if she's okay because you're flirting all night is quite insensitive, in my book.

What I was pointing out is that once a guy entered the scene, she would forget about everyone else. Sure, we were young, insecure and like many young women, craved male validation, but it was particularly strong in her case.

For instance, yesterday I was at a bar with a friend.

Several guys offered me to dance, I declined most of the time because we were catching up with this girl, but if I wanted to accept the guy's offer, I made sure to check with my friend first and even when I was dancing, I would regularly have a look at her just in case. 

Sure, I was not into the guys, but even then, it's nice to check on others, and if you do meet "the love of your life" in a bar, of course you can tell your friend you're really interested and she would understand 

 

 

 

[Batya33]

7 minutes ago, Shycarrot said:

She did not flirt with guys in bar because she wanted to find a partner, she did it to have fun and it's perfectly okay. 

But she could have told me "listen, I am really looking for a partner and/or to flirt tonight, is that okay ?". That would have been completely different, and I would have understood, but that did not happen.  

Maybe she didn't know what she was looking for? When I used to go to singles events with a friend or friends typically we'd separate as soon as we got there because men were unlikely to approach women in a group.   Bar/restaurant was different.

[Wiseman2]

7 minutes ago, Shycarrot said:

But she could have told me "listen, I am really looking for a partner and/or to flirt tonight, is that okay ?". 

Perhaps go out in groups? Or just have lunch if you want one-on-one time?

People go to these types of places to dance, mingle, flirt, etc. In fact many people go with a wingman for that purpose.

She doesn't need your permission to do what you're supposed to do at these places which is socializing. 

Not to sit in the corner having a conversation with their friends. You can do that at home. Please try to lighten up. She didn't do anything wrong. 

[Shycarrot]

11 minutes ago, Batya33 said:

Maybe she didn't know what she was looking for? When I used to go to singles events with a friend or friends typically we'd separate as soon as we got there because men were unlikely to approach women in a group.   Bar/restaurant was different.

Oh I see

So you went to bars with the purpose of meeting guys, that's different, I mean if it's a single event, that's the point;

I don't know, I think she had this idea in the back of her mind that it would be an occasion to flirt with guys, it's just that it was never expressed verbally. 

I haven't met her boyfriend yet. 

I don't know if it's because she likes to keep things separates or if it's because something worries her (I am hoping it's not the latter)