Am I too needy ?

[Shycarrot]

8 minutes ago, Wiseman2 said:

Perhaps go out in groups? Or just have lunch if you want one-on-one time?

People go to these types of places to dance, mingle, flirt, etc. In fact many people go with a wingman for that purpose.

She doesn't need your permission to do what you're supposed to do at these places which is socializing. 

Not to sit in the corner having a conversation with their friends. You can do that at home. Please try to lighten up. She didn't do anything wrong. 

I don't know, it's not the case in my country, really. 

It's a place where you can definitely dance, mingle, flirt, but if you go out there with someone, you can't assume that the other person has theses purposes in mind, not where I live anyway.

And it's rude to leave them alone without at least checking if they're okay.

[Wiseman2]

11 minutes ago, Shycarrot said:

It's a place where you can definitely dance, mingle, flirt, but if you go out there with someone, you can't assume that the other person has theses purposes in mind, not where I live anyway.

Please avoid places like this especially if you don't want to socialize mingle dance and flirt. Unfortunately I disagree that your friends should stop enjoying themselves if you want to just sit in the corner. It's your responsibility to try to have a good time, not judge them. 

[Shycarrot]

3 minutes ago, Wiseman2 said:

Please avoid places like this especially if you don't want to socialize mingle dance and flirt. Unfortunately I disagree that your friends should stop enjoying themselves if you want to just sit in the corner. It's your responsibility to try to have a good time, not judge them. 

Why do you assume I never do these things ? 

When I do, I just don't ignore my friends suddenly, and if any of us (my friends and I) have the intention of doing so, it's best if it's discussed before (except if it's obvious). Honestly, I have been in this situation plenty of times (me dancing with guys or the opposite). It's generally done respectfully. 

Plus, yesterday I was at this place with my friend to catch up. After I declined a guy's invitation, my friend literally said "sorry, we haven't seen each other in a while so we're just talking". 

Sure, we could have stayed at home ! 

But I don't think we owe it to anybody to stay home if we want to talk. 

 

[Batya33]

2 hours ago, Shycarrot said:

Oh I see

So you went to bars with the purpose of meeting guys, that's different, I mean if it's a single event, that's the point;

I don't know, I think she had this idea in the back of her mind that it would be an occasion to flirt with guys, it's just that it was never expressed verbally. 

I haven't met her boyfriend yet. 

I don't know if it's because she likes to keep things separates or if it's because something worries her (I am hoping it's not the latter)

I would do the wait and see -maybe he doesn't want to meet the friends yet.  Yes -so we went to clubs and singles events to meet men.  If we were going for a social outing of some sort then yes we stuck together by default!

[Tinydance]

11 hours ago, Shycarrot said:

Why do you assume I never do these things ? 

When I do, I just don't ignore my friends suddenly, and if any of us (my friends and I) have the intention of doing so, it's best if it's discussed before (except if it's obvious). Honestly, I have been in this situation plenty of times (me dancing with guys or the opposite). It's generally done respectfully. 

Plus, yesterday I was at this place with my friend to catch up. After I declined a guy's invitation, my friend literally said "sorry, we haven't seen each other in a while so we're just talking". 

Sure, we could have stayed at home ! 

But I don't think we owe it to anybody to stay home if we want to talk. 

 

I kind of agree with Wiseman in the sense that you seem to have a black and white view of friendships and relationships. You've said a few times that you really value friendships a lot and they're more important to you than romantic relationships. That's fine but for most people they're not mutually exclusive. 

You wrote in some of your previous posts that you've known some people who only care about romantic relationships. And that "my friends have settled down and I've been left behind". I definitely read something like that which you wrote in your post about you going on a date.

I think some of the issues you're having is actually from your own mindset. Using a phrase like: "I've been left behind" implies that you were deliberately dumped or excluded in some way. I'm sure not all your friends or all people you know only care about romance and just ignore everything else once in a relationship. That would just not be possible because people are all different. For example to me friends, close family and partner are basically on equal standing.

Your friends neither have control nor any responsibility over you dating or finding anyone. Just because they found partners doesn't mean they "left you behind". They put effort into dating or were lucky to find someone. You on the other hand didn't find someone (yet). This situation is YOUR situation and is not the responsibility of your friends. They don't have to stay single or not speak to guys for your benefit.

Also you gave the example that when you and  your friend were at a bar, she went off with a guy. But his friend also approached you and started a conversation. You said: "I didn't want to complain and talk about my friend so I didn't really say anything." Why? Even if you weren't into that guy but he was being friendly and talking to you. You were so fixated that your friend "ditched" you that you didn't realise that a guy actually approached you as well. If you did actually make friendly conversation with him too then how do you know you wouldn't have left with his number or he'd have been your boyfriend? Instead you basically chose not to speak to him.

You have no obligation to be in a relationship, you can be single. But to me it actually sounds a bit like you're avoidant of actually being in one. When the guys approached you to dance the other day, would your friend really be mad if you briefly danced with one guy or got his number? Did you really reject them all for your friend, or you did it for yourself? Just something to think about.

[Batya33]

I'm a hybrid.  Yesterday my good friend who I typically catch up with by phone call on one weekend day afternoon called me at a time I almost always have my phone silenced - during lunch hour (and for years she's aware that that is a time I'm typically busy making or eating lunch -I don't do grab and go food/eat while talking/standing up or prioritize a routine phone call over meal time).  Yesterday -which is rare -my husband and I had an afternoon date as our son is away.  Which meant I might not call till Sunday.  I value our friendship a lot. 

I texted her to say I'd try to call late afternoon but wasn't sure.  Barring an emergency there is no way I would have prioritized our weekend catch up over my husband -and all we were doing was a long walk for ice cream and a specialty grocery store on the way back. My phone was with me in my bag the whole time -never looked. 

It's a no brainer to me -my husband comes first and he would have been ok with my taking a quick call while we walked especially if urgent.  Again -this is a close friend for over 10 years -she's been very good to me and my family. My walk with my husband took priority and I didn't have to think twice.  Others might have and delayed the walk to do the phone call (husband would have been ok with it).  He's more important to me in that situation.

No it's not all about me - I think this is reality for a lot of people in long term /committed relationships.  They don't blink an eye or consider having their partner wait even another 20 minutes to prioritize a weekend phone call with a close friend.  I think it's rare to do it the other way. And I think it's totally fine and doesn't mean the person doesn't value her friends and close friends a great deal. I do!

By contrast my husband offered to take the 45 minute trip to our local airport for our friend whose teenager was stranded there because the friend's flight to our airport was very delayed.  My husband had just returned from a long trip.  Someone else could have done this.  I needed a break. He prioritized his friend that time.  

So taking a snapshot as a rule is going to lead you down this kind of woe is me mindset.  I'd avoid it.

[Tinydance]

18 hours ago, Shycarrot said:

Why do you assume I never do these things ? 

When I do, I just don't ignore my friends suddenly, and if any of us (my friends and I) have the intention of doing so, it's best if it's discussed before (except if it's obvious). Honestly, I have been in this situation plenty of times (me dancing with guys or the opposite). It's generally done respectfully. 

Plus, yesterday I was at this place with my friend to catch up. After I declined a guy's invitation, my friend literally said "sorry, we haven't seen each other in a while so we're just talking". 

Sure, we could have stayed at home ! 

But I don't think we owe it to anybody to stay home if we want to talk. 

 

To me it would really depend on where you actually are. You mentioned something about traditions in your country. Which country are you in if you don't mind me asking?

I used to go out a lot with girl friends to all sort of places when I was younger. I think the culture here in Australia is if you're girls and you're going to a bar or night club, you can definitely be approached by guys. Here bars and clubs are very much for picking up so it's the vibe and culture of them.

Of course, you can decline the advance from a guy, for whatever reason you have. For example, you're not interested in him, you're not single, just feel like talking to your friends, etc. However amongst my friends there wasn't an expectation that if a cute guy approached one of us, she has to say; "No sorry I'm talking to my friend." Wiseman mentioned about being a wingwoman and yes we were very much one for each other. In fact one of my best friends used to ask me in bars to go up to guys and say: "My friend over there thinks you're hot". That was her pick up line.

However if you're sitting in a restaurant or cafe and your friend is just 24/7 obsessed with picking up guys yes I guess that would be annoying. If you're in a queue to get a coffee and all of a sudden she's hitting on the barista for 30 minutes and only spends 30 minutes with you then that's a bit different.

I'm sorry that your friend has started to drift on you. Maybe she is one of those people who does that when in a relationship. But on the other hand I think you mentioned you said something negative to her about her boyfriend at the start? Or did I misunderstand? You said she doesn't confide in you about her relationship or introduced you to her boyfriend. Usually people don't react well to their friends saying something bad about their relationship so that may have played a part in it.

You seem to have an "us verses them" attitude in terms of "I'm single, they're not". It doesn't have to be that way.

[Shycarrot]

29 minutes ago, Tinydance said:

To me it would really depend on where you actually are. You mentioned something about traditions in your country. Which country are you in if you don't mind me asking?

 

I am sorry, I can't tell, but I live in Europe 🙂 

30 minutes ago, Tinydance said:

Here bars and clubs are very much for picking up so it's the vibe and culture of them.

I understand completely. 

 

31 minutes ago, Tinydance said:

However amongst my friends there wasn't an expectation that if a cute guy approached one of us, she has to say; "No sorry I'm talking to my friend." Wiseman mentioned about being a wingwoman and yes we were very much one for each other. In fact one of my best friends used to ask me in bars to go up to guys and say: "My friend over there thinks you're hot". That was her pick up line.

There wasn't such an exception either, it's just that my friend spontaneously said that after she saw me reject the guy. 

Yes, I wasn't familiar with the concept of wingman/wingwoman, it's the first time I hear about it! ! Where I live, bars are a place to hang out among friends, colleagues... You can flirt there if you want but there's a strong implication that it's going to be casual (one night stands, mainly).

People who met their partners in bars are rare and unfortunately, their relationship is stigmatized. 

The line your best friend used is funny lol. 

39 minutes ago, Tinydance said:

However if you're sitting in a restaurant or cafe and your friend is just 24/7 obsessed with picking up guys yes I guess that would be annoying. If you're in a queue to get a coffee and all of a sudden she's hitting on the barista for 30 minutes and only spends 30 minutes with you then that's a bit different.

Sure, but like you said, restaurants or cafes are different. 

 

39 minutes ago, Tinydance said:

I'm sorry that your friend has started to drift on you. Maybe she is one of those people who does that when in a relationship. But on the other hand I think you mentioned you said something negative to her about her boyfriend at the start? Or did I misunderstand? You said she doesn't confide in you about her relationship or introduced you to her boyfriend. Usually people don't react well to their friends saying something bad about their relationship so that may have played a part in it.

That makes sense. 

Like I said, she asked me before making it official if I found it "weird" that she was dating him. I only told her to be careful. 

After that, I traveled a bit and when returned she was in a relationship and everything was going well, so I just congratulated her. 

She was still hung up on another guy, to the point where her current boyfriend asked her to chose between them (she told me this after my trip).

There's a stark contrast between the amount of information she shared about the guys she was in a relationship before, and her current boyfriend. 

I reckon it's because her current relationship is actually healthy, so she does not need that much help/advice because it's finally easy. That makes sense, doesn't it ?

Or, like you said, she feels like I disapprove her relationship. 

 

 

[Shycarrot]

8 hours ago, Tinydance said:

Using a phrase like: "I've been left behind" implies that you were deliberately dumped or excluded in some way. I'm sure not all your friends or all people you know only care about romance and just ignore everything else once in a relationship. That would just not be possible because people are all different. For example to me friends, close family and partner are basically on equal standing.

I can assure you that my feelings of sometimes being left behind by my friends are valid. I have a few examples in mind (at least 3) where we went from being close, inviting each other to bake goods, spending late nights laughing and talking, traveling together... to them barely answering my texts when they found a boyfriend, and canceling our plans because they already had things to do with their boyfriend. We've completely lost contact now.

That happened a few times, really. But I cherish the moments we spent together and I don't hold a grudge. 

I read that there has been some research that demonstrates that in average, you lose 2 friends when you enter a relationship, not to say that people who do this are bad people, but it is just what it is 

8 hours ago, Tinydance said:

Your friends neither have control nor any responsibility over you dating or finding anyone. Just because they found partners doesn't mean they "left you behind"

I know they have no responsibility over my romantic life

8 hours ago, Tinydance said:

They don't have to stay single or not speak to guys for your benefit.

I have never said that !

I just think there's a middleground : you can have both a boyfriend and  thriving friendships. You don't have to sacrifice the latter for the first one. I agree that it's a difficult thing to balance, but it's mostly doable (if your friends are worth keeping, which is another debate lol). 

When I got a boyfriend, I had a lot, and I mean a lot, of courses to study, but I still managed to see my friends. (Granted the relationship only lasted 6 months, more or less)

(Obviously I am not talking about when kids enter the picture, that's different and there's an understandable and well needed change of priority.)

I am aware that my friend does not have to cater my needs and to adapt to the fact that I am single, it's my job to do so, but I don't think I am too bad at it ? 

8 hours ago, Tinydance said:

Why? Even if you weren't into that guy but he was being friendly and talking to you. You were so fixated that your friend "ditched" you that you didn't realize that a guy actually approached you as well.

I was depressed that day. I didn't badmouth my friend but we did briefly talk with that guy. I am pretty sure he wasn't interested in me, we just got to talk because of the circumstances (his friend was with mine and we were left alone). 

8 hours ago, Tinydance said:

When the guys approached you to dance the other day, would your friend really be mad if you briefly danced with one guy or got his number? Did you really reject them all for your friend, or you did it for yourself?

Honestly, I don't think one of this encounter at the bar would have made a relationship. I was not interested in one of the guys. I accepted to dance with some of them because I enjoy dancing (if I remember correctly, it was a bachata song) but that's all. 

No my friend wouldn't have been mad if I ended up clicking with one guy, it just wasn't the case. 

I am genuinely trying to meet men using dating apps and attending meetups, but I rarely find someone I match with. It is what it is. 

I am also quite wary of men, so when they show a potential dealbreaker (heavy drinker, drugs use ...), I am quick to disqualify them. Maybe too quick, I don't know 

[Batya33]

52 minutes ago, Shycarrot said:

I can assure you that my feelings of sometimes being left behind by my friends are valid

Feelings are feelings they are valid! You choose the reaction.  Please don't tell a friend who shares about a new guy "be careful" -it's like saying to a friend who announces her pregnancy "oh watch out I just heard there was a listeria outbreak at the ice cream place you like!".  Just say "oh great - hope you're enjoying!"  If she wants your negative input she'll tell you.  Obviously if you know him to be a criminal or abuser tell her.  

[Tinydance]

6 hours ago, Shycarrot said:

I can assure you that my feelings of sometimes being left behind by my friends are valid. I have a few examples in mind (at least 3) where we went from being close, inviting each other to bake goods, spending late nights laughing and talking, traveling together... to them barely answering my texts when they found a boyfriend, and canceling our plans because they already had things to do with their boyfriend. We've completely lost contact now.

That happened a few times, really. But I cherish the moments we spent together and I don't hold a grudge. 

I read that there has been some research that demonstrates that in average, you lose 2 friends when you enter a relationship, not to say that people who do this are bad people, but it is just what it is 

I know they have no responsibility over my romantic life

I have never said that !

I just think there's a middleground : you can have both a boyfriend and  thriving friendships. You don't have to sacrifice the latter for the first one. I agree that it's a difficult thing to balance, but it's mostly doable (if your friends are worth keeping, which is another debate lol). 

When I got a boyfriend, I had a lot, and I mean a lot, of courses to study, but I still managed to see my friends. (Granted the relationship only lasted 6 months, more or less)

(Obviously I am not talking about when kids enter the picture, that's different and there's an understandable and well needed change of priority.)

I am aware that my friend does not have to cater my needs and to adapt to the fact that I am single, it's my job to do so, but I don't think I am too bad at it ? 

I was depressed that day. I didn't badmouth my friend but we did briefly talk with that guy. I am pretty sure he wasn't interested in me, we just got to talk because of the circumstances (his friend was with mine and we were left alone). 

Honestly, I don't think one of this encounter at the bar would have made a relationship. I was not interested in one of the guys. I accepted to dance with some of them because I enjoy dancing (if I remember correctly, it was a bachata song) but that's all. 

No my friend wouldn't have been mad if I ended up clicking with one guy, it just wasn't the case. 

I am genuinely trying to meet men using dating apps and attending meetups, but I rarely find someone I match with. It is what it is. 

I am also quite wary of men, so when they show a potential dealbreaker (heavy drinker, drugs use ...), I am quick to disqualify them. Maybe too quick, I don't know 

Well again, I'm not sure what country you are in so makes it a little difficult for me to research the friendship or dating culture. I'm originally from Europe too but moved to Australia as a 12-year-old. I'm 39 now.

In the country my family are from, people really value friendship, or at least my family did. And people are very genuine about friendship. If they don't truly really like someone they wouldn't be friends just for numbers or "to have someone". But people tend to get married and have kids young. Probably in their early to mid 20's. So from that perspective maybe they would get really busy and especially before their kids go to school and are babies or very small.

I'm sorry that you had a few friends who distanced from the friendship or completely lost contact after getting a boyfriend. I do agree with you that people still need to find a middle ground. It's never really happened to me except with one of my best friends who's been with her husband for 17 years and has two kids. But she didn't ditch me but the friendship just became sporadic. Like, when we catch up it's like old times. But we don't catch up as much. I also have a lot of friends. I'm even in two separate groups of close friends.  One group is of seven people and one of four. The group of four are friends from school who I've known for 24 years. Our friendship has changed a lot over time. Like, when we were teenagers and early 20's I was very close to Claire, then went through a period being very close to Steph. We all chat in a group chat but we don't catch up often because most of us live really far from each other. One of them lives a 2.5 hour drive from me and that drive is on a freeway at very high speed. So as you can imagine it's far.

What I'm trying to say is that some friendships will change and it doesn't always mean it's the end. Like, I'm not sure if you're perceiving it as the end but it's not? You actually gave an example that with your friend from this post, she doesn't reply much so then you just stop contacting her. Did you stop contacting the other friends as well? You don't seem OK with the "ebb and flow" type of friendship. I wonder if the friendship changes then you get really hurt and you drift off from it too? 

On the other hand I'm fine with that type of friendship because I have so many friends. For example, that friend who's 2.5 hours drive away lives in a really nice rural area. Usually they had a light projection festival once a year. So about once a year I'd come over to the area and we would catch up. Otherwise we catch up as a group every few months or we chat in a Facebook group chat on and off. Just because a friendship isn't constant go go go with constant texts, calls, catching up, doesn't mean it doesn't exist. I think if you have that black and white view then you will end up losing the friendships all together.

Again I respect your country's culture but do people really judge people who met their partner at a bar? Or you judge them? I just don't understand why it makes a difference where you met your partner. Really you can meet them anywhere. One of my friends was at an art gallery and asked a guy and his Mum to take her photo. They kept in touch and are now married with two kids. You seem to have some kind of prejudice about you or your friends talking to guys at a bar. 

You have some kind if set in stone ideas about what people are supposed to act like or supposed to think. But they don't seem to think the same. E.g. Your friend doesn't see a problem with talking to guys at bars. You just don't seem very flexible in your mindset is what I'm trying to say.

[Wiseman2]

7 hours ago, Shycarrot said:

. No my friend wouldn't have been mad if I ended up clicking with one guy, it just wasn't the case.  I rarely find someone I match with. It is what it is. I  am also quite wary of men, 

It seems like your friends, especially in your age group have gone through the effort to find BFs and round out their lives, which includes having a primary relationship, which of course takes precedence, as well as friends.

They don't seem to need babysitting when they go out and also seem to make the effort to have a good time.

Bars and clubs lend themselves to flirting, mingling dancing and there is absolutely nothing wrong with that. It makes no difference where you are located.

There's venues like that all over the world, as well as quieter cafes, etc.it doesn't necessarily mean they're pick-up places. So there's no need to think you have to meet men that way.

The important thing is to respect your friends, their lives, the efforts they've made to have full lives and perhaps you could do the same. 

[Tinydance]

6 hours ago, Batya33 said:

Feelings are feelings they are valid! You choose the reaction.  Please don't tell a friend who shares about a new guy "be careful" -it's like saying to a friend who announces her pregnancy "oh watch out I just heard there was a listeria outbreak at the ice cream place you like!".  Just say "oh great - hope you're enjoying!"  If she wants your negative input she'll tell you.  Obviously if you know him to be a criminal or abuser tell her.  

Yes. And even warning her to be careful and say it's her professor and he's older etc. But he wasn't her professor anymore and she's 29, he's 39. So the age gap isn't actually massive or anything. For example my best friend is 33 and currently seeing a guy who's 47. Also her friend asked the professor out for coffee so it was actually her who pursued him. And also be careful about what exactly?

[Tinydance]

2 minutes ago, Wiseman2 said:

It seems like your friends, especially in your age group have gone through the effort to find BFs and round out their lives, which includes having a primary relationship, which of course takes precedence, as well as friends.

They don't seem to need babysitting when they go out and also seem to make the effort to have a good time.

Bars and clubs lend themselves to flirting, mingling dancing and there is absolutely nothing wrong with that. It makes no difference where you are located.

There's venues like that all over the world, as well as quieter cafes, etc.it doesn't necessarily mean they're pick-up places. So there's no need to think you have to meet men that way.

The important thing is to respect your friends, their lives, the efforts they've made to have full lives and perhaps you could do the same. 

Yes

[Shycarrot]

1 hour ago, Tinydance said:

And also be careful about what exactly?

I advised her to be cautious after she asked me what I thought, that's it.

Cautious like you would be at the start of any type of relationship, cautious in the sense that you should try to not let your feelings/emotions cloud your judgment because yes, her and I have a history of ignoring red-flags. 

That's it, I don't think I was being a bad friend for saying this, was I ? I hope she would have done the same for me.

Plus, she was the one who mentioned the power dynamic first, and they even talked about it with her professor. At the time, they didn't know if he would still be her teacher, it turns out that yes, he is (since January)

But the copies are anonymous, so everything is good in that regard ! 

2 hours ago, Tinydance said:

I also have a lot of friends. I'm even in two separate groups of close friends.  One group is of seven people and one of four.

That sounds so great, I want this ! 😊

 

2 hours ago, Tinydance said:

You actually gave an example that with your friend from this post, she doesn't reply much so then you just stop contacting her. Did you stop contacting the other friends as well? You don't seem OK with the "ebb and flow" type of friendship. I wonder if the friendship changes then you get really hurt and you drift off from it too?

It's interesting ! 

Unfortunately, I stopped reaching out because I felt that the friendship became too one-sided : I was always the one offering to meetup, texting first, traveling to see them, you know what I mean ?

So yes, I got tired and stopped contacting them but the saddest thing is that they never reached out after that. So yeah, it's not an ebb and flow type of situation and that's okay, I made peace with it. 

 

2 hours ago, Tinydance said:

Again I respect your country's culture but do people really judge people who met their partner at a bar? Or you judge them? I just don't understand why it makes a difference where you met your partner. Really you can meet them anywhere.

Yes, they do. Where I live, bars are famous for one-night-stands and casual relationships. Going to a bar looking for something serious sounds peculiar. You could definitely meet someone with whom you develop a serious relationship but that's not very likely, because people, especially men, are looking for short-term relationships. Nothing wrong with that, but it's something to keep in mind.

I agree that the place where you meet your partner is completely irrelevant in theory. 

It's just that if you're looking for a partner, blind dates and dating apps are more suited for that 

2 hours ago, Tinydance said:

Just because a friendship isn't constant go go go with constant texts, calls, catching up, doesn't mean it doesn't exist. I think if you have that black and white view then you will end up losing the friendships all together.

 

Yes, I am supposed to know this : I spent the last part of my 20's moving from one city to another because of my studies and we only catched up with this friend when we saw each other (every 6 weeks, sometimes 3, to 6 months). In the meantime I was very busy with work and I made new friends in those areas. What I mean is that, because life got in the way we didn't talk much during those times. 

When I came back to my hometown, we picked up where we left off. 

When I decided to move back to my hometown, we started to see each other more frequently until she met her boyfriend. 

But I notice that when I meet other people (the new friends I made in the last few months), I feel infinitely better, it tackles my loneliness and I don't worry about this at all ! 

In a few weeks, I am spending a few days abroad (Amsterdam, then Copenhagen) with my second best friend, I am honestly thrilled ! 😁 It's going to be the highlight of my month 🥳

I just need to keep myself busy with my hobbies, new friends ... Wallowing in self-pity, thinking about the close bonds that I lost does not make me any good... It just hurts, and I can't do anything about it.. 

Instead, I have to focus on the things I can do which are building new connections with other people, learning new skills, visiting other places ... That's my mantra 😊

 

 

 

 

[Shycarrot]

1 hour ago, Wiseman2 said:

The important thing is to respect your friends, their lives, the efforts they've made to have full lives and perhaps you could do the same. 

I admit that this part kind of upsets me. Having a "full life" means having a partner + a career/studies ? 

Which means that my life is incomplete, since I am single ?

I would argue it's just different. Sure I don't have the perks of a relationship, but I guess I can do others things ? 

Also, why are you suggesting I don't make efforts ? 

The 2 friends who stopped investing on our friendship once they found a boyfriend met their partner on dating apps. For one of them, it was the first guy she met through the app, the other found someone in 2 months. They made efforts, no question about that ! 

But I am on dating apps too, I have been on more dates than them but it hasn't happened (yet?). 

You can make efforts all you want, it increases your odds but it's not a guarantee. But it's fine, I can enjoy other things. 

 

 

[Wiseman2]

2 minutes ago, Shycarrot said:

I would argue it's just different. Sure I don't have the perks of a relationship, but I guess I can do others things ? 

Indeed you definitely like to argue . It's in direct reference to your disappointing night out and being upset that your friends are having a good time and your envy and jealousy and resentment of them. 

[Batya33]

6 minutes ago, Shycarrot said:

Having a "full life" means having a partner + a career/studies ? 

Which means that my life is incomplete, since I am single ?

Having a full life means what you think makes it full or fulfilling. I had a full and fulfilling life when I was single.  And I knew I'd not feel happy with my life if I didn't get married and have the opportunity to try to conceive a baby.  I knew neither was guaranteed and I accepted that.  But yes for me I was bluntly honest with myself about my life goals.  I attained the professional goal in my late 20s, but I married and became a mom at 42.  I know of many people who are not married and not in a relationship and have a full and fulfilling life.  I know of women who are married moms who feel incomplete and not fulfilled even if they also work outside the home. It's an individual thing.

So if your particular friend has marriage as a goal or long term r'ship then if she meets someone with potential there will be a period of time where she's your friend but less available and/or less available in the particular ways/ times she used to be.

When my future husband and I were dating a couple of months in 2005 my friend called me and said they had one open seat for a 4 person Saturday night reservation at a very fancy restaurant during Restaurant Week.  Discounted.  Honestly I was a little surprised she assumed I'd do that rather than see my serious boyfriend.  I said no and explained that my bf and I saw each other every Saturday night -she said she was a little surprised I wouldn't make an exception. I wasn't.  At all.  Would I see her a different time -for sure - but I was no longer available to be a 4th person on Saturday night because I was in a couple and Saturday was our date night.  

When my friends started getting married and having kids 10-15 years prior to me I would accommodate them as much as possible -took commuter trains out to see them and their kids, didn't expect them to be available to go out at night anymore, etc.  Our phone conversations could be more disjointed because now they were pulled in a lot more directions.  The close friends I accommodated.  

I say be more flexible.

[Shycarrot]

14 minutes ago, Wiseman2 said:

Indeed you definitely like to argue . It's in direct reference to your disappointing night out and being upset that your friends are having a good time and your envy and jealousy and resentment of them. 

Sorry, I took it the wrong way. 

I see 

It happened only once ! And we were alone then so it's the only time I faced this situation. 

Otherwise, we went out in a group so I didn't mind if this friend flirted with guys ! 

But now that I think about it, I should have known better 🤷‍♀️ Going in a bar alone with her was a mistake, especially because I had no intention to meet guys at the time.

I naively thought we went out to spend time together/to talk. 

 

[Jaunty]

33 minutes ago, Shycarrot said:

I admit that this part kind of upsets me. Having a "full life" means having a partner + a career/studies ? 

For those friends, or former friends of yours, it does mean these things.  So perhaps it would be good for you to celebrate that for them if not actually with them, rather than taking a stance that does come off as somewhat aggrieved.   And - yes, "needy."  

From experience I can tell you that life takes people on many different paths.  I'm very much older than you and I have maintained friendships  with people who went very far afield from me, or vice versa, for decades.   We were all following our paths.  Different things take priority depending on various stages of our lives.  This does not mean that a deep connection would be broken.  It might just look profoundly different.

 

 

[Shycarrot]

6 minutes ago, Batya33 said:

When my friends started getting married and having kids 10-15 years prior to me I would accommodate them as much as possible -took commuter trains out to see them and their kids, didn't expect them to be available to go out at night anymore, etc.

It's understandable ! I empathize. I hope it wasn't too difficult for you seing others having children when it was also something you yearned for;

8 minutes ago, Batya33 said:

When my future husband and I were dating a couple of months in 2005 my friend called me and said they had one open seat for a 4 person Saturday night reservation at a very fancy restaurant during Restaurant Week.  Discounted.  Honestly I was a little surprised she assumed I'd do that rather than see my serious boyfriend.  I said no and explained that my bf and I saw each other every Saturday night -she said she was a little surprised I wouldn't make an exception. I wasn't.  At all.  Would I see her a different time -for sure - but I was no longer available to be a 4th person on Saturday night because I was in a couple and Saturday was our date night.  

 

I see ! Did you only get to to see your bf on Saturday night ?

But your priorities changed, I understand.

12 minutes ago, Batya33 said:

So if your particular friend has marriage as a goal or long term r'ship then if she meets someone with potential there will be a period of time where she's your friend but less available and/or less available in the particular ways/ times she used to be.

She does not want kids but her boyfriend seems to be a great guy, I am sure it's a long-term thing. 

But it's none of my business. What matters is that I should, indeed, focus on myself and accommodate them.

28 minutes ago, Batya33 said:

I attained the professional goal in my late 20s, but I married and became a mom at 42.  I know of many people who are not married and not in a relationship and have a full and fulfilling life.  I know of women who are married moms who feel incomplete and not fulfilled even if they also work outside the home. It's an individual thing.

I am happy you got the things you wanted in life 🙂 It's great ! 

Yes, everyone has his own goal and aspiration. 

[Batya33]

I saw my boyfriend for as much of the weekend as possible.  We went out on Saturday nights - and I wasn't going to ditch him for a fancy dinner where there was only one seat available - that's my point -once I had a serious boyfriend I wasn't going to not see him on a Saturday night unless I had to work, be out of town for business or something very unusual.  He'd have been hurt.  

Yes it was very hard watching my friends have kids as my clock ticked loudly.  And I was there for them and accommodated their new schedules.

As far as getting what you want in life yes it is fairly typical for women to prioritize a partner and a family.  But obviously not all women.  And not all men.  My overarching point was fulfilling and complete mean different things to different people.  

[Tinydance]

2 hours ago, Shycarrot said:

I admit that this part kind of upsets me. Having a "full life" means having a partner + a career/studies ? 

Which means that my life is incomplete, since I am single ?

I would argue it's just different. Sure I don't have the perks of a relationship, but I guess I can do others things ? 

Also, why are you suggesting I don't make efforts ? 

The 2 friends who stopped investing on our friendship once they found a boyfriend met their partner on dating apps. For one of them, it was the first guy she met through the app, the other found someone in 2 months. They made efforts, no question about that ! 

But I am on dating apps too, I have been on more dates than them but it hasn't happened (yet?). 

You can make efforts all you want, it increases your odds but it's not a guarantee. But it's fine, I can enjoy other things. 

 

 

I don't actually think you even need to be in a relationship if for example you don't want to be. I have one 39-year-old friend who has literally never been on a date to my knowledge and is a virgin with zero romantic experience of any kind. She could be asexual or aromantic. She's travelled a lot, has friends and librarian career, had pets and owns a nice apartment. So it's up to you what you want. That's exactly what I was talking about that people's lives and goals are different. You're saying your life is fine and nothing wrong with it that you're single. But equally there's nothing wrong if your friends have that big goal of settling down with a guy, or having kids. There are a lot of people who really want all that. To fall in love, wedding, family, etc. So yes I agree with Wiseman, respect your friends, how they want to live and their choices.

I'm sorry if your friends drifted off because they found a boyfriend but at first you said it was "at least three friends". I just find it a bit weird that so many of your friends did this. To me that points to either that literally all these people actually weren't close friends but you perceived them to be. So you were a lot more invested than them. Or your expectations were really high. Like, they didn't ditch you but you were really hurt they don't message or catch up *as much* so you stopped contacting them too. I mean, I definitely don't doubt that people exist who dump their friends for a guy. But how is it all your friends, 3 + people? Just seems like too many unless you were really unlucky?

I also think you mentioned that that you moved around a lot for a number of years. Unfortunately when you not physically there, friendship does tend to become not as close. I don't think it means that these people literally don't care or don't like you but friendship requires catching up in person. If you never see each other it won't be as close. So if you were expecting that you'd be away many years and when you return, these friends are still your besties, that might not be the case. So it might not be that they found boyfriends but you were already drifting because of distance. Then they just happened to find a boyfriend. And yeah maybe they weren't super loyal friends but people's lives do change. It doesn't make them a bad person but when your life changes you might not be in a position to do the same things anymore.

For example, when my best friend was single, we used to talk and catch up all the time. We'd go to bars, clubs, movies, dinner, coffee. But when she met her husband, she didn't want to go to clubs because she wasn't single and she couldn't catch up once or twice a week. She was working full-time and trying to build her relationship with her husband. Then they had two kids so she got super busy. 

You seem to get into some kind of "in your head" as you said that as soon as your friends get a boyfriend, you're not on the same page or same league. They're now "women with a boyfriend". Doesn't really seem to me like you're being supportive or even trying to get to know the boyfriend. You view the boyfriend as an intruder who took your friends away. This will also drive your friends away because their boyfriend is really important to them and big part of their life.

For example, you could ask your friend to all go out together you, her and professor. Instead you're like: "Be careful". It just doesn't come across as you accept your friends and their boyfriend as a couple but you just want the boyfriend to go away. So it's like the old times where your friend is single and free for you. If that's the case then not surprising they drifted off.

[boltnrun]

I had the opposite happen. I was the one who got into a relationship. I wanted to continue my friendships but one friend immediately stopped answering or returning my calls. There was one activity we used to do together but I was going to these events with my boyfriend because he was a participant (semi pro athlete). But other than that one activity I wanted to see my friend as frequently as always. But again, she refused to answer or return my calls because she was mad (and jealous) I had a boyfriend. We never spoke again, which was a shame but she was being immature. And this had been a very, very close friend. 

[Batya33]

30 minutes ago, boltnrun said:

I had the opposite happen. I was the one who got into a relationship. I wanted to continue my friendships but one friend immediately stopped answering or returning my calls. There was one activity we used to do together but I was going to these events with my boyfriend because he was a participant (semi pro athlete). But other than that one activity I wanted to see my friend as frequently as always. But again, she refused to answer or return my calls because she was mad (and jealous) I had a boyfriend. We never spoke again, which was a shame but she was being immature. And this had been a very, very close friend. 

Same happened to me when I had a baby. Two weeks before I gave birth she and I had lunch as we did from time to time. We’d met at a singles resort and lived in the same city. Been good friends for about 8 years by that point.  She is younger than me - 5 years or so - and single and child free. She was so so sweet at that last lunch. Offered to baby sit or help - I hadn’t asked !- gave me name of her cleaning woman.
And we had a lovely time.

I had the baby. We then had a gathering 2 weeks after the birth - a baby naming. Not a shower. Co ed.  No gifts needed. Invited her in group email likely a week after I gave birth . No response. Emailed again - personally. No response. I was very exhausted post partum so I don’t think I called her (everyone else RSVP) but I know I followed up yet again by email . Nothing.
 

And she never called despite knowing I had a baby.  We reconnected via FB some years later. Neither of us brought it up and I’d moved away. Bizarre. We chat from time to time and have some mutual friends. I felt badly about being ghosted. I still do.