Am I too needy ?

[Shycarrot]

5 hours ago, boltnrun said:

I had the opposite happen. I was the one who got into a relationship. I wanted to continue my friendships but one friend immediately stopped answering or returning my calls. There was one activity we used to do together but I was going to these events with my boyfriend because he was a participant (semi pro athlete). But other than that one activity I wanted to see my friend as frequently as always. But again, she refused to answer or return my calls because she was mad (and jealous) I had a boyfriend. We never spoke again, which was a shame but she was being immature. And this had been a very, very close friend. 

I am so sorry you had to go through this ! Indeed, her behavior was immature. How old was she, if I may ask ? 

But I guess if she could not be happy for you, she was not a good friend in the first place ? I think she had her own issues to solve 

5 hours ago, Batya33 said:

And she never called despite knowing I had a baby.  We reconnected via FB some years later. Neither of us brought it up and I’d moved away. Bizarre. We chat from time to time and have some mutual friends. I felt badly about being ghosted. I still do. 

It's crazy, I didn't know it was that common. I feel for you 😕 

16 hours ago, Tinydance said:

For example, you could ask your friend to all go out together you, her and professor. Instead you're like: "Be careful". It just doesn't come across as you accept your friends and their boyfriend as a couple but you just want the boyfriend to go away. So it's like the old times where your friend is single and free for you. If that's the case then not surprising they drifted off.

I only told her to be cautious once, before they made it official ! You make it sound like every time she mentions her boyfriend, I am uneasy and make her feel like she should be careful, but I am not. 

She knows I am happy that it's going well, I told her plenty of times ! I admit that asking her to see her boyfriend has never crossed my mind, I find it too intrusive. Generally, I tend to think that she'll introduce me to him when/if she feels ready. 

I don't want to precipitate things, I am afraid she'll take it the wrong way, you know ?

16 hours ago, Tinydance said:

You seem to get into some kind of "in your head" as you said that as soon as your friends get a boyfriend, you're not on the same page or same league. They're now "women with a boyfriend". Doesn't really seem to me like you're being supportive or even trying to get to know the boyfriend. You view the boyfriend as an intruder who took your friends away. This will also drive your friends away because their boyfriend is really important to them and big part of their life.

But we talk lot about the boyfriend when I see her ! She talks about his friends, his flatmates, his family, his insecurities, his aspirations, sometimes because I ask, sometimes not. And I am genuinely interested , I am sure she knows that ! Plus, I am relieved when I see that she's around trustworthy people.

By the way, her boyfriend probably knows everything about me lol. I remember I was surprised to find out her ex at the time knew about my family issues. 

16 hours ago, Tinydance said:

I'm sorry if your friends drifted off because they found a boyfriend but at first you said it was "at least three friends". I just find it a bit weird that so many of your friends did this. To me that points to either that literally all these people actually weren't close friends but you perceived them to be. So you were a lot more invested than them. Or your expectations were really high. Like, they didn't ditch you but you were really hurt they don't message or catch up *as much* so you stopped contacting them too. I mean, I definitely don't doubt that people exist who dump their friends for a guy. But how is it all your friends, 3 + people? Just seems like too many unless you were really unlucky?

I have met a lot of people in the last 4 years, so it's not that surprising. Plus, when I talk about this issue around me, it seems like a lot of people can relate so I don't think it's an uncommon phenomenon. 

They didn't catch up at all actually. I had to text them first every time and when they moved away, I was the one traveling to see them, despite offering them to visit me many times. I admit that it was gradual, first they would stop contacting me first but seemed happy when I did, then they would take longer and longer to reply, the texts got shorter and shorter until they stopped replying. 

Since they moved away, I didn't expect us to talk as much as before but I was hoping we would catch up from time to time. 

That happens, plenty of friendships fizzle out especially when one stops putting efforts. 

And really, I am fine about this, I just hope they're happy with their partners and their life in general ! 

16 hours ago, Tinydance said:

I don't actually think you even need to be in a relationship if for example you don't want to be. I have one 39-year-old friend who has literally never been on a date to my knowledge and is a virgin with zero romantic experience of any kind. She could be asexual or aromantic. She's travelled a lot, has friends and librarian career, had pets and owns a nice apartment. So it's up to you what you want. That's exactly what I was talking about that people's lives and goals are different

Yes, I know 🙂 And it's perfectly acceptable. 

In my case, I am not really asexual nor romantic. It's just that I haven't found someone that I click with. 

16 hours ago, Tinydance said:

But equally there's nothing wrong if your friends have that big goal of settling down with a guy, or having kids. There are a lot of people who really want all that. To fall in love, wedding, family, etc. So yes I agree with Wiseman, respect your friends, how they want to live and their choices.

Yes, I understand. To be honest, we could delve way deeper into this but I don't want to derail this topic.

All I am going to say is this : 

not every culture puts this much emphasis on the nuclear family. Emmanuel Todd and others anthropologists, have written great books about this (collectivists vs individualistic societies) and they demonstrate how diverse human societies tend to be. 

My friend who's actually studying sociology/anthropology, told me this herself and gave me many examples.

It's interesting to keep that in mind even though concretely, you can't do anything to change it so you might as well live by the rules, or surround yourself by people who think this way too.

I have read plenty of posts in other forums, regretting the fact that because they were single, no-one prioritized them because society was built for couples and everyone was (rightfully so) focused on their own nuclear family. Some posters living in the US, were even denied health care because of this (I don't know if it's true, you can correct me if I am wrong)

Maybe it's stupid but it gave me a huge rush of anxiety. 

I have talked about this in previous pages, but I was worried that if I remained single, no one would care about me the way I cared about them. 

But that does not worry me as much now, I have found many ways to appease myself 🙂

 

[boltnrun]

21 minutes ago, Shycarrot said:

I am so sorry you had to go through this ! Indeed, her behavior was immature. How old was she, if I may ask ? 

We were both in our mid 30s.

[boltnrun]

21 minutes ago, Shycarrot said:

she was not a good friend in the first place ? I think she had her own issues to solve 

She was a great friend before that. But yes, she had (and has) a lot of issues. 

[Batya33]

1 hour ago, Shycarrot said:

I have read plenty of posts in other forums, regretting the fact that because they were single, no-one prioritized them because society was built for couples and everyone was (rightfully so) focused on their own nuclear family. Some posters living in the US, were even denied health care because of this (I don't know if it's true, you can correct me if I am wrong)

Where I live - major US city, moved from major US city - I think it's easier to be in a couple and married.  It's more acceptable. Not commenting on the fairness of it but it's my perception.   It has nothing to do with why I got married or my desire to get married and be a mommy -that was all personal and individual.  I'm not a sheep blindly following "society".  I don't really get along with people who are too much like that.  

I'm sorry you felt anxious.  Icky feeling!!

But I also don't sense you would settle just to be "safe" in a couple.  Safe in quotes because it's never been my focus - I see too much happen in the world to couples.  My dear friend - she is just the best - genuine, warm, caring, pretty, so bright, ambitious, successful.  3 kids under 12.  Yesterday -she celebrated the bday of one of her kids.  Today is moving day. Her husband is moving out.  Because he cheated.  First time that she is aware of.  She caught him.  Safe??? Thank goodness she is a professional with a full time job.  And now the job of getting divorced and caring for their children and keeping them safe.  No guarantees. She does not deserve this -in particular.  She's that wonderful. No I don't think I'm motivated to be married because it's safer.  I'm motivated for many reasons but not that one.  To each her own.  

[boltnrun]

Denied health care in the US because they're single? Humph. Not true. I've been single going on 20+ years now and I have never been denied healthcare due to my relationship or marital status. 

I don't feel unsafe being unmarried and I live in a major metropolitan area. 

[Batya33]

7 minutes ago, boltnrun said:

Denied health care in the US because they're single? Humph. Not true. I've been single going on 20+ years now and I have never been denied healthcare due to my relationship or marital status. 

I don't feel unsafe being unmarried and I live in a major metropolitan area. 

Same when I was a single adult till age 42 and I was single when pregnant until my 8th month.  Never had any issue with health care, have always lived in a major city, never lived with anyone -roommate or partner (except a few months with my husband when we were engaged the first time -we didn't officially live together until after we were married).

In fact there were some really annoying complications accessing health care once I got married and moved - just the change in status and location messed some stuff up.  

[Shycarrot]

Oh okay, I was under the impression that some people shared their health insurance with their spouses, so they were in a bad place once they were single ! (I am not familiar with the US system though, maybe I am wrong) 

 

57 minutes ago, boltnrun said:

Denied health care in the US because they're single? Humph. Not true. I've been single going on 20+ years now and I have never been denied healthcare due to my relationship or marital status. 

I don't feel unsafe being unmarried and I live in a major metropolitan area. 

Okay then, I probably misunderstood. My bad 

1 hour ago, Batya33 said:

Where I live - major US city, moved from major US city - I think it's easier to be in a couple and married.  It's more acceptable. Not commenting on the fairness of it but it's my perception.

You're right, society is literally built for couples.

 

1 hour ago, Batya33 said:

I'm not a sheep blindly following "society".  I don't really get along with people who are too much like that. 

I don't even judge people who are like that. I think it's not black and white and the people who pursue these goals are not necessarily sheeps because some of their reasons are valid and stem from the social benefits you get when you're married, plus we're all conditioned from a young age. 

So, it's very complicated and as a result, I don't judge them. 

1 hour ago, Batya33 said:

But I also don't sense you would settle just to be "safe" in a couple.  Safe in quotes because it's never been my focus - I see too much happen in the world to couples.  My dear friend - she is just the best - genuine, warm, caring, pretty, so bright, ambitious, successful.  3 kids under 12.  Yesterday -she celebrated the bday of one of her kids.  Today is moving day. Her husband is moving out.  Because he cheated.  First time that she is aware of.  She caught him.  Safe??? Thank goodness she is a professional with a full time job.  And now the job of getting divorced and caring for their children and keeping them safe.  No guarantees

That's awful !!! 

But in a way, thanks for saying this ? 

Yes, marriage is not a guarantee ! 

It's not that I want to be in a relationship because it's "safer" but because it seems like it would make my life easier and if it's a good relationship, that would prevent me from feeling lonely ? 

For instance, I was talking to my sister about how sometimes I just wanted to tell someone about a funny story I had at work, or share a funny meme, but then I realize that I have no one who would reply to me in the span of an hour (but maybe it's normal, I don't know). That makes me really sad, sometimes.

And at the same time, I don't blame them, all of them have their own lives, it's normal !

I used to do this with my best friend but now, she's busy, so she'll probably reply in a few weeks if she does.

My other best friend is currently travelling, so I don't bother her with those things. 

My long-distance friends and I don't have this type of relationship anymore, since we moved away. 

And I don't feel comfortable/close enough with my new friends yet to share these things. 

 

So what I usually end up doing is that I write these funny stories on a notebook and when I catch up with a friend, I remind myself to talk to them about it. 

Anyway, you know what my sister replied to me when I told her this ?

"You should find yourself a boyfriend ! You're supposed to keep in close contact with your partner, not your friends!"

So, yeah... It prompted me to get a relationship (among other things), because otherwise, I am literally no one's priority. 

It goes the other way too, I would love to receive these kind of texts from my friend but she stopped doing that. 

On the bright side, my other best friend is returning from her long trip in a few weeks, I am so excited 🙂 

[Wiseman2]

22 minutes ago, Shycarrot said:

, society is literally built for couples.

Not sure what forums you are reading (especially about US misinformation), or where you get your ideas from (other than family pressure for you to marry),

But here are some interesting statistics published by the US government.:

" 46.4% of U.S. adults are single according to the U.S. Census Bureau. That's 117.6 million unmarried Americans – nearly every other adult aged 18 and over. This includes those who are divorced or widowed as well as those who have never married"

[Batya33]

18 minutes ago, Shycarrot said:

ou're right, society is literally built for couples.

 

Your words not mine.  I don't believe that at all. And it sure isn't a piece of cake being a mom with some of the generalizations that are made about moms whether they work outside the home or not.

I share my health insurance with my husband. If I didn't I'd seek coverage at my job or some other sort of coverage.  No biggie.

I can't imagine dating especially looking for a serious relationship all bogged down in the negative assumptions you seem to have -but maybe I'm reading wrong? You're well intentioned and smart and caring -perhaps you might want to reconsider some of this negative stuff?

[boltnrun]

2 hours ago, Shycarrot said:

should find yourself a boyfriend ! You're supposed to keep in close contact with your partner, not your friends!"

That is bizarre. 

Relying on a romantic partner to keep you from feeling lonely is an awfully huge burden to expect someone to carry. 

[Tinydance]

6 hours ago, Shycarrot said:

I am so sorry you had to go through this ! Indeed, her behavior was immature. How old was she, if I may ask ? 

But I guess if she could not be happy for you, she was not a good friend in the first place ? I think she had her own issues to solve 

It's crazy, I didn't know it was that common. I feel for you 😕 

I only told her to be cautious once, before they made it official ! You make it sound like every time she mentions her boyfriend, I am uneasy and make her feel like she should be careful, but I am not. 

She knows I am happy that it's going well, I told her plenty of times ! I admit that asking her to see her boyfriend has never crossed my mind, I find it too intrusive. Generally, I tend to think that she'll introduce me to him when/if she feels ready. 

I don't want to precipitate things, I am afraid she'll take it the wrong way, you know ?

But we talk lot about the boyfriend when I see her ! She talks about his friends, his flatmates, his family, his insecurities, his aspirations, sometimes because I ask, sometimes not. And I am genuinely interested , I am sure she knows that ! Plus, I am relieved when I see that she's around trustworthy people.

By the way, her boyfriend probably knows everything about me lol. I remember I was surprised to find out her ex at the time knew about my family issues. 

I have met a lot of people in the last 4 years, so it's not that surprising. Plus, when I talk about this issue around me, it seems like a lot of people can relate so I don't think it's an uncommon phenomenon. 

They didn't catch up at all actually. I had to text them first every time and when they moved away, I was the one traveling to see them, despite offering them to visit me many times. I admit that it was gradual, first they would stop contacting me first but seemed happy when I did, then they would take longer and longer to reply, the texts got shorter and shorter until they stopped replying. 

Since they moved away, I didn't expect us to talk as much as before but I was hoping we would catch up from time to time. 

That happens, plenty of friendships fizzle out especially when one stops putting efforts. 

And really, I am fine about this, I just hope they're happy with their partners and their life in general ! 

Yes, I know 🙂 And it's perfectly acceptable. 

In my case, I am not really asexual nor romantic. It's just that I haven't found someone that I click with. 

Yes, I understand. To be honest, we could delve way deeper into this but I don't want to derail this topic.

All I am going to say is this : 

not every culture puts this much emphasis on the nuclear family. Emmanuel Todd and others anthropologists, have written great books about this (collectivists vs individualistic societies) and they demonstrate how diverse human societies tend to be. 

My friend who's actually studying sociology/anthropology, told me this herself and gave me many examples.

It's interesting to keep that in mind even though concretely, you can't do anything to change it so you might as well live by the rules, or surround yourself by people who think this way too.

I have read plenty of posts in other forums, regretting the fact that because they were single, no-one prioritized them because society was built for couples and everyone was (rightfully so) focused on their own nuclear family. Some posters living in the US, were even denied health care because of this (I don't know if it's true, you can correct me if I am wrong)

Maybe it's stupid but it gave me a huge rush of anxiety. 

I have talked about this in previous pages, but I was worried that if I remained single, no one would care about me the way I cared about them. 

But that does not worry me as much now, I have found many ways to appease myself 🙂

 

Sorry if this comes across as rude or offensive but are you getting any therapy? I'm not saying this to make you feel bad. But just reading all your posts, I think you could really benefit from talking to a therapist because you have some unhealthy ways of thinking. I'm only suggesting this because I think you need to discuss this a lot deeper with a trained professional, rather than on a forum. Of course you are allowed to talk about it on a forum as well.

You seem to have a very deep fear of being alone which to me doesn't sound rational. I think that your comments that society is only made for couples and not people who are single don't really apply to Western society.

I understand it does depend on culture in particular countries. For example I know in many Asian countries, it's a woman's path in life to marry, have children, etc. If you don't do this you are considered "an old maid". I know some Eastern European countries can be very traditional like this as well. However there are still single people there. For example even people who are gay because being gay isn't that accepted in their country. This is the case with my cousin who is gay and he's back in my home country.

However I really don't see how simply by being single, especially in Europe or other Western countries, means you are excluded from society. You have exactly the same rights legally as people in a relationship or married. You are not being stopped from making friends, working, pursuing hobbies. If you're a woman maybe you might get paid less than a man but nonetheless you are free to have a career. In Western culture if you're single, people don't care. I couldn't care less if someone is single or married in terms of me liking them as a person.

I'm sorry that some of your friends ditched you but most people don't ditch their friends. I've been both single or in serious relationships and I never left my friends. That's why I have close or best friends I've known for 24 years, 20 years, 13 years, etc.

I don't know why you have this fixed idea in your head that all people just dump their friends if they have a partner. You have a very irrational fear of this and you're trying to prove by using research or psychology to show that "being in a couple isn't that good." You said you are in Europe so surely you're not considered a second class citizen there just because you're single? 

All I'm saying is you're trying to prove some kind of point about that it's not that great to be in a relationship or something like that. And that single people feel lonely.

If you're talking about them feeling lonely in terms of they don't have someone to come home to, then sure. But they don't have to feel lonely in the sense they have no friends because they're single, don't have hobbies, don't have a job. This is all available to you exactly the same as a single person as people in relationships. 

You are feeling sorry for yourself because you're lonely and your friends found a boyfriend etc. Feeling lonely is normal bit it's not the fault of your friends, society, or being single. If you're in a city and not a tiny country town, you should have plenty of opportunities there to go out and meet people. There should be Meetup groups (or similar), classes, book clubs, Facebook groups, or just events in general. I know you said you're a doctor so I understand you must be very busy. But even as a doctor you must have time off so why don't you use your time off to go out and meet people? Instead you're trying to prove something about your own (wrong?) beliefs about being single, friendships, etc. 

[Tinydance]

2 hours ago, Batya33 said:

Your words not mine.  I don't believe that at all. And it sure isn't a piece of cake being a mom with some of the generalizations that are made about moms whether they work outside the home or not.

I share my health insurance with my husband. If I didn't I'd seek coverage at my job or some other sort of coverage.  No biggie.

I can't imagine dating especially looking for a serious relationship all bogged down in the negative assumptions you seem to have -but maybe I'm reading wrong? You're well intentioned and smart and caring -perhaps you might want to reconsider some of this negative stuff?

Yep that's what I'm trying to say. Very negative and almost like trying to prove that being in a relationship is bad. Or people in relationships treat single people badly, exclude them, so on. Which is not true. There are also a lot of single people and even singles groups. Plenty of people out there who aren't single but still really value friendships. I joined a Facebook women's social group and there are women there of all ages, some single, in relationships, married, kids, no kids. We all go out together to coffee, movies, shows, walks, things like that. We are all there because we want to make friends and have friends. One of the admins of the group has been with her husband for like 30 years and she was the one who started the group to make friends. Huge generalisation that people in relationships don't want to have friends.

[Shycarrot]

1 hour ago, Tinydance said:

Sorry if this comes across as rude or offensive but are you getting any therapy? I'm not saying this to make you feel bad. But just reading all your posts, I think you could really benefit from talking to a therapist because you have some unhealthy ways of thinking. I'm only suggesting this because I think you need to discuss this a lot deeper with a trained professional, rather than on a forum. Of course you are allowed to talk about it on a forum as well.

No problem, I am not taking this personally and I appreciate that you're trying to help. Yes, I am seeing a therapist ! She's not really reassuring when it comes to this particular topic, because she typically feeds my fears, stating things like "studies prove that people in a relationship are better at handling hardship in life" "being single is good, but it's true that having a partner unlocks a deeper form of intimacy, something you can never have with friends" ... 

But I don't mind, she's great otherwise. 

1 hour ago, Tinydance said:

You seem to have a very deep fear of being alone which to me doesn't sound rational. I think that your comments that society is only made for couples and not people who are single don't really apply to Western society.

That fear of being alone is quite recent, and was sparked up by my friend (it's not her fault, obviously, I recognize that these are my own issues). 

When I say that societies are built for couples, I mean it in the sociological sense.

I am sorry, I don't have much time so I won't be able to explain it in detail now but here are a few links to illustrate my point :

https://socwomen.org/wp-content/uploads/2018/03/fact_win2008-single.pdf

https://today.yougov.com/politics/articles/40912-are-single-people-discriminated-against

https://revisesociology.com/2023/11/21/are-single-people-discriminated-against/

1 hour ago, Tinydance said:

However I really don't see how simply by being single, especially in Europe or other Western countries, means you are excluded from society. You have exactly the same rights legally as people in a relationship or married. You are not being stopped from making friends, working, pursuing hobbies. If you're a woman maybe you might get paid less than a man but nonetheless you are free to have a career. In Western culture if you're single, people don't care. I couldn't care less if someone is single or married in terms of me liking them as a person.

I am not saying being single means you are excluded from society and that you can't make friends, work, pursue hobbies lol. It just does not offer you the same advantages as married people (that's why same-sex marriage was such a big deal). 

Reading this made me smile 🙂 If as a single person, you could not do all of those things, wha would be the point of living then ? 😂

1 hour ago, Tinydance said:

I'm sorry that some of your friends ditched you but most people don't ditch their friends.

I hope so, it's been my experience so far but I really, really hope you're right. 

 Wiseman2 pointed out that my friends had a "primary relationship" which took precedence over friends 🤷‍♀️ 

I don't understand then, why is it earth-shattering when I say a part of me wants to find a boyfriend because I also want to have a close relationship with someone ? 

It may sound silly but this thread vastly increased my anxiety,  I really wish I hadn't stumbled upon it 😭 https://www.reddit.com/r/AskWomenOver30/comments/18j15f4/im_starting_to_realize_the_only_reason_im/

 

1 hour ago, Tinydance said:

All I'm saying is you're trying to prove some kind of point about that it's not that great to be in a relationship or something like that. And that single people feel lonely.

Oh no, I don't want to say that single people feel lonely. Plus, I have done some research and it's over simplistic and untrue. 

It's just that I, personally, sometimes feel lonely when I come home alone especially now. I simply want to share the details of my days with someone, but for now at least, I don't have any friends to do it with

It's nice to have the chance to send random funny or cutes videos, interesting recipes, videos of dance moves I would like to learn etc ...to someone and to receive those things from someone else. I really miss this intimacy. 

But maybe I am asking for too much ?

1 hour ago, Tinydance said:

But they don't have to feel lonely in the sense they have no friends because they're single, don't have hobbies, don't have a job. This is all available to you exactly the same as a single person as people in relationships. 

 

I know, don't worry 🙂 

1 hour ago, Tinydance said:

If you're in a city and not a tiny country town, you should have plenty of opportunities there to go out and meet people. There should be Meetup groups (or similar), classes, book clubs, Facebook groups, or just events in general.

I am already doing that ! I am going to an event tomorrow night and this Friday 🙂  

I feel great whenever I interact with people, and the positives feelings lingers for a few days 😇 But after that I need another booster ! And if for a reason or another, I can't, all of those negatives feelings come back...

When I worked at the hospital, it was way easier to meet my social needs. We used to hangout with my coworkers almost every night and cook together, I have never felt lonely, even once. Plus, they were lovely people (they're still my friends 🙂)

I have always thought of myself as an introvert, and it's kind of true (I think ?) but I realize that I need way more socializing than I thought

 

 

 

 

 

[Shycarrot]

1 hour ago, Tinydance said:

Plenty of people out there who aren't single but still really value friendships. I joined a Facebook women's social group and there are women there of all ages, some single, in relationships, married, kids, no kids. We all go out together to coffee, movies, shows, walks, things like that. We are all there because we want to make friends and have friends. One of the admins of the group has been with her husband for like 30 years and she was the one who started the group to make friends. Huge generalisation that people in relationships don't want to have friends.

Could this be an age thing ? 

I have read somewhere that people tented to be more like this when they approached their 40's/50' ? It's empirical of course 

Around me, the assumption is more that friends are great but they're treated as a placeholder until you meet your SO who will then become your best friend, and this relationship is supposed to trump others, it is perceived as more valuable. 

[Shycarrot]

3 hours ago, Batya33 said:

I share my health insurance with my husband. If I didn't I'd seek coverage at my job or some other sort of coverage.  No biggie.

From what I read, it seemed complicated for some people 

2 hours ago, boltnrun said:

Relying on a romantic partner to keep you from feeling lonely is an awfully huge burden to expect someone to carry. 

Generally, we are looking for ways to socialise to decrease loneliness right ? (of course, it's not the only purpose and this one is self-centered, there are other reasons to do so !)

I was talking about my desire to have a romantic partner because, yes, deep down I am scared that if I develop a close friendship with someone, I will have to adapt again when they find a partner. 

What I mean by adapting is having to lower my expectation of our friendship, seing her downgrading our friendship, never feeling like I am a priority to her ... 

I know that plenty of events in life can lead to someone being temporarily less available, you talked about kids, but it could be a demanding career, a new job ... But I don't have a problem with those (and I have a busy career as well)

I can have multiple friendships all at once to protect myself against this, but I realize that I really need/want to have someone close at any moment. Is that weird ?

Casual friends are great for hanging out, but it's not that fulfilling to me.

 

 

[catfeeder]

Hi SC, are you close (or have the potential to become close) with anyone in your family?

[Tinydance]

26 minutes ago, Shycarrot said:

From what I read, it seemed complicated for some people 

Generally, we are looking for ways to socialise to decrease loneliness right ? (of course, it's not the only purpose and this one is self-centered, there are other reasons to do so !)

I was talking about my desire to have a romantic partner because, yes, deep down I am scared that if I develop a close friendship with someone, I will have to adapt again when they find a partner. 

What I mean by adapting is having to lower my expectation of our friendship, seing her downgrading our friendship, never feeling like I am a priority to her ... 

I know that plenty of events in life can lead to someone being temporarily less available, you talked about kids, but it could be a demanding career, a new job ... But I don't have a problem with those (and I have a busy career as well)

I can have multiple friendships all at once to protect myself against this, but I realize that I really need/want to have someone close at any moment. Is that weird ?

Casual friends are great for hanging out, but it's not that fulfilling to me.

 

 

Well there is that saying "don't put all your eggs in one basket". That is never a good thing with anything! I think you don't have the ability to be self sufficient. Of course we want to socialise because as humans we are social creatures. We evolved to live as a pack or tribe for protection and survival. It's ingrained in our nature biologically. But the way you see friendship seems like an unhealthy attachment style.

You solely rely on friends to take away your loneliness, it is almost like a desperation. So when your friend becomes busier or gets into a relationship, you feel this huge hole in your life. You can't rely on someone so heavily, almost like it's their "job" to make you less lonely. It's never good to place all hope into only one thing. Some people are workaholics and that's not good either. The thing too is that people get scared away by clingy or needy people. You need to be independent and give off a vibe that you don't "need" other people. People can smell desperation and it can be off putting. 

Also I think there's a difference between being alone and lonely. I do have a lot of friends but very often I would go to a movie, festival, concert by myself. I would literally stand in the mosh pit by myself and listen to the band. And I was having a good time! Learn to sit with being alone. You can still use it to enjoy yourself and have "me time". There's a book I was reading called "How to be Alone" by The School of Life. You might find it useful.

 

[Tinydance]

Thank you for providing the links to the articles. Since we're talking about psychology and philosophy and so on, do you know what confirmation bias is? Here is a quick description from Wikipedia"

"Confirmation bias is the tendency to search for, interpret, favor, and recall information in a way that confirms or supports one's prior beliefs or values. People display this bias when they select information that supports their views, ignoring contrary information, or when they interpret ambiguous evidence as supporting their existing attitudes. The effect is strongest for desired outcomes, for emotionally charged issues, and for deeply entrenched beliefs."

Do you see what I'm getting at?

 

 

 

[Batya33]

8 hours ago, Shycarrot said:

Could this be an age thing ? 

I have read somewhere that people tented to be more like this when they approached their 40's/50' ? It's empirical of course 

Around me, the assumption is more that friends are great but they're treated as a placeholder until you meet your SO who will then become your best friend, and this relationship is supposed to trump others, it is perceived as more valuable. 

Yes my relationship with my husband and son take priority  and yes I couldn't stand the notion of friendship as a placeholder until "settling down".  Nope not for me no I don't click with women or men who behave like that. To me it's not like "who is more valuable" - odd way of evaluating people - but for sure my committment to my marriage and family is more important to me all else equal than my commitment to a friend. 

So for example I distanced myself from a friend who sent us a holiday card addressed to me and used the name of my ex boyfriend to refer to my husband - an ex he knows of.  Seriously? She'd met my husband numerous times and he set her up with his friend years ago. She did apologize when I pointed it out but didn't think it was a big deal - so all else equal I didn't contact her as much.  I mean maybe that's a silly example but it's not about "value" - that seems kinda cold.  Not how I think about it.

If I'd followed studies I'd never have tried to conceive at almost 41 and never dreamed of getting back together with an ex fiancee in my late 30s with my clock ticking given the risk of it not working out.  I'd never have tried to get a job in my field in my late 40s, and on and on.  It's all a risk -you balance the risks for yourself.  It's certainly riskier to be a married mommy than single and childless in certain ways.  I don't risk being around certain breeds of dogs and others are appalled at my attitude -but on balance I can live my life quite nicely without being around those dogs and by avoiding all dogs outside who are off leash while others think that is just silly.  You balance the risks for yourself.

 

[Kwothe28]

I can sympathize with OP. Not because I think singles are discriminated against(they arent) but because a large number of activities does incentivizes couples or group of people. For example I can go to lunch in a restaurant alone. But would be kinda weird from the point that you are not expected to go out alone but at least with some friend. Same with stuff like vacations. Not only couples and groups get better deals, its not really common to do it alone. Precisely because its a couples or groups thing. I do know one woman who does go alone even on vacations. But even she tries to not be alone during it and be at least part of some larger group.

That being said, nothing stops OP to do stuff like that by herself or even to seek company for it in terms of a boyfriend or new friends. And even if she cant, again, there are a lot of organized activities where you can just join a group of people to do something fun that you want. My country isnt full of activities like some others but even we have lots of organized stuff where you can just join even as a single individual. Is it better to do with a friends you already know or SO? Sure, maybe. But nothing stops OP to get out there and do something fun she has interest with. Even if she doesn't have a boyfriend or her friends prioritize theirs.

[Shycarrot]

Thank you so much for your help/concern ❤️

First I want to say that I allow myself to share my darkest thoughts in these pages, but they do not impact me on a day to day basis : I am pretty content with my life, I love my work, my hobbies... and I can function normally 🙂 

My anxiety is going through the roof when I let myself spiral down with negatives thoughts, but in the last few months, I realize it "only" happens in 1-3 days a month. It's significantly more than before, but It's not too worrisome. 

I am currently going through a rough patch but hopefully, things will get better soon and writing here has helped.

9 hours ago, Tinydance said:

"Confirmation bias is the tendency to search for, interpret, favor, and recall information in a way that confirms or supports one's prior beliefs or values. People display this bias when they select information that supports their views, ignoring contrary information, or when they interpret ambiguous evidence as supporting their existing attitudes. The effect is strongest for desired outcomes, for emotionally charged issues, and for deeply entrenched beliefs."

Do you see what I'm getting at?

Thank you about this ! Well, I am not sure ? You mean that I am only looking for informations that confirm my beliefs ? I am not sure it's accurate because thinking that romantic relationships are more valued than friendships in our culture is pretty realistic (yes, it's a generalization, I am aware it can vary according to the people). I could try to prove the opposite with rational, solids arguments but frankly, I would struggle. 

10 hours ago, Tinydance said:

Well there is that saying "don't put all your eggs in one basket". That is never a good thing with anything!

Sorry, you think I put my eggs in which basket exactly ? 

10 hours ago, Tinydance said:

I think you don't have the ability to be self sufficient.

What does it mean to be self-sufficient ?

I have come to the conclusion that every time I was telling myself that I was able to be happy single and that I felt 100% fulfilled with my life, in retrospect, I had among other things, secure friendships with whom I shared a closed bond.

What I truly meant then, is that I didn't need a relationship specifically, all I needed was love, and love can come from many type of relationships (friends, family, boyfriends ...). It's still true to this day.

Does it make me not self-sufficient ? Probably, but you know what, I think the majority of human beings are like this. Few people are able to live a sustainable life without any kind of positives interactions, like you said, human are social creatures. And everyone needs to be loved. 

Now and like I said, what I miss the most is being able to text someone randomly about something that happened during my dat, or others things. But right now, I have no one to do that with apart from my sister. 

My friend now does this with her boyfriend, she meets most of her social needs with him now and I think it's the case with many people in a relationship. 

Now that I think about it, the last time I saw her, she said she went out much more than before (her boyfriend likes to party and he's very social).

But she asked if she could join one of my meetups because she was "tired" of her boyfriend's friends, she found them uninteresting. 

So I accepted, and she joined me to an event. 

I guess at this particular moment, I could have said that I would have liked to go out with her as well, but I didn't want to sound needy. 

What I am trying to articulate is that contrary to what one of you said, I do seem pretty independent and well-adjusted from an exterior point of view. I sometimes struggle to express my deepest feelings (like I do it here) and there's nothing that I hate more than sounding needy. 

So my friends in general have no idea I feel like this. They imagine that I have this "perfect" career with a "perfect" house and "perfects" vacations. 

My friend even said at one point when we last saw each other "you're not lonely !" and I thought to myself "if only you knew" lol. (I never told her because I don't want to guilt-trip her)

Plus, she's generally the one who needs reassurance because she has a fear of abandonment.

10 hours ago, Tinydance said:

You solely rely on friends to take away your loneliness, it is almost like a desperation. So when your friend becomes busier or gets into a relationship, you feel this huge hole in your life. You can't rely on someone so heavily, almost like it's their "job" to make you less lonely. It's never good to place all hope into only one thing. Some people are workaholics and that's not good either. The thing too is that people get scared away by clingy or needy people. You need to be independent and give off a vibe that you don't "need" other people. People can smell desperation and it can be off putting. 

 

Yeah, don't worry about this, giving off a desperation vibe is the least of my concerns 😂

 It's rather the opposite, people think I am perfectly well-rounded and don't need anyone. 

You mentioned that I had an insecure attachment style, I know I am an avoidant in romantic relationships. In friendship I am secure (leaning avoidant, but it's mild).

The problem is that loneliness is only tackled by genuine and positive human interactions, at least in my case. I love it when get a positive feedback from the patients, or my coworkers or other people. It's awesome when I meet new people ... But I realize that it's not 100% fulfilling. 

I miss the close bond I had with my friend, that's all. And it's hard to replicate it with other people, it takes time to built this kind of trust and intimacy. 

10 hours ago, Tinydance said:

Also I think there's a difference between being alone and lonely. I do have a lot of friends but very often I would go to a movie, festival, concert by myself. I would literally stand in the mosh pit by myself and listen to the band. And I was having a good time! Learn to sit with being alone. You can still use it to enjoy yourself and have "me time". There's a book I was reading called "How to be Alone" by The School of Life. You might find it useful

Thank you 🙂 Honestly, I have been alone (not lonely) a large chunk of my life, so I think I know myself pretty well and I am definitely able to have a good time by myself, but thanks ! 

[Shycarrot]

11 hours ago, catfeeder said:

Hi SC, are you close (or have the potential to become close) with anyone in your family?

Hi 🙂 

Not right now, but I'll be reunited with my sister next weekend 🙂

I am going to reply to the rest when I get the time, thanks

Take care ☀️

[Wiseman2]

45 minutes ago, Shycarrot said:

My anxiety is going through the roof when I let myself spiral down with negatives thoughts. Plus, she's generally the one who needs reassurance because she has a fear of abandonment.

Perhaps it would help to stop obsessing over this friend? Especially since you seem to project a lot of your own stuff on to her. 

[Jaunty]

Yes, I would say that you are "too needy."   I'm sensing it throughout your threads.  You put a lot of expectations out there and they are heavily weighted with your disapproval and disappointment.  This will push people away from you in your life.

[catfeeder]

2 hours ago, Shycarrot said:

Hi 🙂 

Not right now, but I'll be reunited with my sister next weekend 🙂 ☀️

Okay, good. I think ‘we’ as a collective bunch of strangers on the Internet are well meaning but over-reaching into diagnosing your personality or ascribing characteristics to your mental health based on a few sentences. We ALL struggle at times. You don’t need to defend yourself to us.

Observations about which weighs more, a partner or a friend gets so far out into the weeds that it’s not even useful. You feel how you feel. The problem only comes when you translate those into any binary always/never narratives that cast you into a role of being inherently ‘wrong’ for not having found a partner or ‘bad’ for feeling a loss when a friend pulls away. We’ve ALL experienced this kind of divergence in friendships, to at least some degree, as very few friends can live perfectly parallel states throughout their lifetimes.

So defending your perceptions to strangers is not useful. Plenty of people have offered our own examples of situations that have made us feel the same way. So you’re in excellent company with good people throughout the world. While this may not alleviate the loneliness of your immediate experience, it does serve to confirm that you are not alone in your feelings during this transition from enjoying the consistent companionship of one best friend to expanding your reach to incorporate more friendships into your life.

And you are correct, that takes time. And you’ve been working it well! In the course of this thread, you’ve been getting out, meeting people, and you’ve even enjoyed a good catch up with the friend in question, resulting in a more peaceful and relaxed regard for her!

So I’m not clear why some people here are dragging you back into examination of your initial posts in this thread rather than congratulating you for the wonderful work you’ve been doing. I’d suggest not going down that road, but rather, refer folks to the midpoint of this thread for examples of your proactive approach.

Meanwhile, share your thoughts and memes with your sister as you look forward to her visit, even while you continue cultivating your new friendships. GREAT JOB!!