Past Affairs/None for a while/Seeing old behaviors

[HonestySeeker]

Hi,

I am new to here and really to forums in general but I need advice. 

I know many will say I should have left before, so I didn't and still want to save my marriage. Please don't suggest otherwise as I am not there yet. 

So... We have been married for 5 years, together 6. He cheated on his first wife for years while traveling the world. We discussed this at length and of course, he says she didn't want sex ever, and that was why. I have actually confirmed this with mutual friends. Anyway, while I was traveling twice he was reaching out to other people that he had been with before. I found out and we almost divorced but went to counseling and have stuck it out. I work at home so we are together a lot, we share locations also. I am pretty certain that nothing has happened in a long time. However, whenever he needs to travel for games with his son, he starts to look at things that throw up red flags. We share a computer sometimes and I have seen his history that has in the past year included looking up hook up sites while away. I have seen where he is and with all involved with my investigating, determined that he didn't actually do anything. This does not stop the constant worry that he may at some point go through with it. He gets very defensive and usually leaves mad when I "accuse" him of anything. He says he is an adult and that I should stay out of his business and not treat him like a child. I tell him that he is not a child but he is a husband. He has a trip coming up and I feel we must discuss it before but here are my questions.

1. Why when our sex life is great, would he risk the devastation this would cause?

2. Do I bring it up or should I chalk it up to curiosity and boredom? Being grateful he didn't act on it.

3. When and how do I bring this up so not to put him on the defensive?

 

[SooSad33]

8 minutes ago, HonestySeeker said:

This does not stop the constant worry that he may at some point go through with it. He gets very defensive and usually leaves mad when I "accuse" him of anything. He says he is an adult and that I should stay out of his business and not treat him like a child. I tell him that he is not a child but he is a husband. He has a trip coming up and I feel we must discuss it before but here are my questions.

I guess in ways, yeah, you're just 'voicing your concerns', but in no way are you treating him like a child, lol.  He's gotten himeslf in this mess and yeah, you're his wife, you have rights to inquire 😉 

IMO, there shouldn't have to be any constant 'discussions', as he should NOT be behaving like this, period!

Yup, by the looks of it, his looking that stuff up, shows he has not changed.  Sorry 

If you're sitting here in constant fear of him cheating again, then maybe it's time to throw in the towel 😕 .  Why is it necessary for anyone to live like this?  Trust is gone.

 

 

[Wiseman2]

16 minutes ago, HonestySeeker said:

  his history that has in the past year included looking up hook up sites while away. 1. Why when our sex life is great, would he risk the devastation this would cause?2. Do I bring it up or should I chalk it up to curiosity and boredom? Being grateful he didn't act on it.3. When and how do I bring this up so not to put him on the defensive?

Sorry this is happening. Unfortunately you're noticing some red flags and things have devolved into playing private investigator.

You can keep him on a tight electronic leash, but he'll just act outraged at your findings and deny everything and find ways around it...

Keep in mind he's a chronic philanderer and well versed in this. The story about "we were like roommates" is a well rehearsed cheaters line.  

It's possible he has a sex addiction. Whatever you stumble upon may just be the tip of the iceberg.

Please see a physician for an evaluation of your physical and mental health. Get some tests done, particularly STD testing. Ask for a referral to a qualified therapist for ongoing support.

You'll need someone to confide in and be straight and objective with you because chronic cheaters are experts at gaslighting.

Unfortunately it's hard to accept this is happening however people don't go on hook-up apps because "they're bored".

[lostandhurt]

So you want to police his every move for the rest of your lives?  This is what your marriage/life is going to look like because he seems to not care how his actions are hurting you.

  Looking at porn is one thing but he is checking out hook up sites which would be way over any marriage boundary even if he didn't have a history or cheating but because he does makes it even worse.

Since you are not "there" yet  I think it is time to get back into counseling. Make sure he understand just how much his actions hurt you and the family.  A therapist can cut through the BS he is throwing out there and get down to the why.  Why is he doing what he is doing?  Does he want out of the marriage? Does he want an open marriage so he can fool around but have the security of the family?  What is his goal by going on these sites?  He needs to answer those question to you but mostly to himself.

 Stop trying to fix this yourself and make an appointment with a counselor when you know for sure he can attend. Then once the appointment is set inform him that you are very worried about OUR marriage so you went ahead and made an appointment for the both of you to talk to a counselor together.  See what he says.

 Lost

[shouldhavelearned]

Sounds like he needs some special treatment to help cure his itch

 

[MissCanuck]

9 hours ago, HonestySeeker said:

1. Why when our sex life is great, would he risk the devastation this would cause?

Because he is never going to be satisfied with just one woman. He will always want more than one. Your feelings are not prioritized. He is more concerned about fulfilling his own desires. 

10 hours ago, HonestySeeker said:

2. Do I bring it up or should I chalk it up to curiosity and boredom? Being grateful he didn't act on it.

It's not curiosity and boredom. This is you trying to rug-sweep because the truth is too painful to actually admit to yourself. The fact that you're asking yourself if you should be grateful that he didn't act on it says it all. You have buried your standards for appropriate behaviour underground here, OP. 

10 hours ago, HonestySeeker said:

3. When and how do I bring this up so not to put him on the defensive?

You can't. This is is wishful thinking on your part. You know he is never not going to get his back up and turn it around on you. No matter how you present this to him, he's going to get angry. 

The very fact that you need to "discuss" not going on hook-up sites with your own husband is incredibly sad. It should be a given that a husband doesn't do this. 

Why do you want to live this way? You say you aren't ready to leave, but you are the only one who genuinely cares about this marriage. You know how he is, and you know he is going to be looking for other women while he's traveling. If he's not willing to stop (and it doesn't seem he is), then you either accept that he's always going to be hunting for the next thrill, or you do what you don't want to do and end it. It's not as though he's going to turn into someone he just isn't. You understandably want monogamy. He doesn't. 

[poorlittlefish]

At some point I suspect you're going to wish you'd have "got there" sooner - maybe when he's given you an STI or run off with some other unsuspecting woman.  He cheated on his first wife and he's cheated on you.  Do you really want this constant anxiety and betrayal for yourself?  He's never going to change because he has the best of both worlds.  Only you can rid yourself of this awful situation.

[Kwothe28]

12 hours ago, HonestySeeker said:

1. Why when our sex life is great, would he risk the devastation this would cause?

 

Because "cheaters gona cheat". If you havent realized "our sex life was dull" was just his excuse to cheat. That is what cheaters do, they gaslight themselves so they would have a convinient excuse to cheat.

12 hours ago, HonestySeeker said:

2. Do I bring it up or should I chalk it up to curiosity and boredom? Being grateful he didn't act on it.

 

No, stop policing him. If you dont trust him you both can take up marriage counseling or divorce.

12 hours ago, HonestySeeker said:

3. When and how do I bring this up so not to put him on the defensive?

 

He would always be on defensive even if he does something. For example his next excuse would be how you are "suffocating him and he needed to relax". Again, cheaters gona cheat. 

[tattoobunnie]

Almost all people are not interested in sex with their partner when they're partner is banging someone else.  It doesn't matter if his 1st wife was interested or not; he still selfishly cheated on her, and it ended the marriage.  You are next  in line whether or not you aren't ready to divorce.

[redswim30]

OP, please understand I mean this with love and respect- I know it's hard to get tone from reading- but truly I mean this with all the love and empathy in my heart- 

You say you don't want to divorce him, so IDK what advice you want?  Your husband is a cheater, period.  It should have been a HUGE red flag to you that he blamed his first wife for HIS cheating.  He's pretty clearly cheating on you -sorry, but there's NO other reason to go on "hook up sites" but with the intention to cheat.  Then he's getting defensive when you bring things up, which is pretty much a slam dunk confirmation that he is in fact cheating on you. 

You don't want to divorce him?  Then simply accept the fact that he is a serial cheater and will never be faithful to you.  This is who he is.  And he's likely gonna give "reasons" to others for cheating on you, too. (IN GENERAL, one should always be wary of people who blame their exes for their own bad behavior)  If someone is determined to cheat, they will.  I say this as someone who learned this lesson the hard way w/my first husband- NO amount of spying, policing his actions/web activity, talking or lecturing to him is gonna change it.  All that could possibly (and in his case, I don't think he would) help is if you were to actually give him consequences, like physically leaving or having him physically leave. 

He has no intention of stopping and unless you show him you mean business, you're just allowing him to continue to cheat by doing nothing.   Stay married and you'll remain trapped in a cycle of you spying/him denying, you lecturing/him ignoring, you discovering/him hiding more.  I wish you thought you deserved more than that.   But if you want to waste your life thinking you can change him, well- that's your choice.

[HonestySeeker]

First of all, thank you all for taking time to read this and give your advice. I do appreciate it. I know most of what you are saying is true. I do not want to keep being an investigator and trying to keep him from misbehaving when I know it should be a given in a marriage. There are a few things that hold me back from throwing in the towel just yet. I am actually very good at the investigation part. That being said, I know with about 95% accuracy that he hasn't taken it past looking yet. The first time he tried 3 years ago, was with a couple that he had been with many times before we were married and this time it never worked out. I had his Apple watch and saw the whole conversation without him knowing until I was back in town. This time was the first time since that he went on hook up sites. I could see his location the whole time and his son was in his hotel room so that wasn't an option. There was 1 hour that he wasn't in constant texting mode with me and I was looking at his live location the night he looked up the site. I guess I feel the need to talk to him even if I don't get answers because I want him to know I am smarter than he is for one, and for two, I want to see what in the world the crazy excuse will be. Also, in every other way he is an amazing husband. He cooks, cleans, plans special days, vacations, helps my kids that are not his, is good to his parents and mine, well known and liked in the area, as I said the sex in great too! BTW, I have had all the tests done several times and I am healthy. I guess I want to give him one last chance to come clean, admit he has a sex addiction problem, go to counseling with me and be the man that everyone thinks he is. I know I must take drastic action if he will not. So, with that being said, how do you think I approach him for this conversation? We all have temptations we normally don't act on while married. I am hoping this is all it was and that he decided not to go through with it. I know to many I sound crazy, and maybe I am, but I feel I need this conversation for me if nothing else. 

[Sparks_Advice]

I can understand the worry that you're going through right now.  The gist of the situation is he is engaging in behaviors that are unacceptable to you, and he is refusing to change.

It shows that he is unwilling to listen to you and unwilling to work on the relationship.  It's a very difficult spot. Your three main questions were about sex, curiosity, and not making him defensive. But those things are only going to get resolved when he decides that he is willing to listen to you and work on the relationship.

[redswim30]

17 hours ago, HonestySeeker said:

 I guess I feel the need to talk to him even if I don't get answers because I want him to know I am smarter than he is for one, and for two, I want to see what in the world the crazy excuse will be. Also, in every other way he is an amazing husband. He cooks, cleans, plans special days, vacations, helps my kids that are not his, is good to his parents and mine, well known and liked in the area, as I said the sex in great too! BTW, I have had all the tests done several times and I am healthy. I guess I want to give him one last chance to come clean, admit he has a sex addiction problem, go to counseling with me and be the man that everyone thinks he is. I know I must take drastic action if he will not. So, with that being said, how do you think I approach him for this conversation? We all have temptations we normally don't act on while married. I am hoping this is all it was and that he decided not to go through with it. I know to many I sound crazy, and maybe I am, but I feel I need this conversation for me if nothing else. 

 Even if he hasn't physically cheated YET, OP- the fact is what he is doing is still a betrayal and the fact that you've gone to all these length to spy on him shows that you do not trust him.  That's not healthy for either of you. 

Hey, if him acting this way isn't a deal-breaker for you- if all that other stuff means more to you than you being able to trust each other, then we can't stop you from staying married.  You are excusing his behavior, OP.   It's normal to have curiosity about others while you're married, but it's another thing to take action.   Going on hookup sites is taking action to cheat.  

You don't sound crazy, you sound in denial about who your husband really is.  "He cheated on his ex, but he would never cheat on me"- all the while that he is using the exact same method and lies that he's previously used to cheat.  You are doing mental gymnastics to try and convince yourself that what he is doing is both excusable and "normal".  You are also trying to convince yourself that it's normal to be tracking your husband like a private eye, but the real reason you felt the NEED to do this is because you don't trust that he won't cheat on you.  

Go ahead and have that conversation, but don't expect it to be pretty or to be positive.  Last time you tried, he simply evaded and got defensive and that is likely to be his reaction again.  If you expect him to be honest, you will also have to honest about your lengths you took to spy on him, and that's gonna go over like a lead balloon.   He's not going to change unless he wants to, and I don't think he does, OP.   Did he admit to his first wife that he had an addiction or did he just cheat and blame her for it? This isn't a man interested in taking accountability for his actions.  What makes you think the outcome will be different for you?  Even you don't believe he has changed, or you wouldn't be taking these lengths to spy on him. 

I still think at the end of the day your choices are going to be- stay with him and recognize that the price for all the "good stuff" with him is that he won't be faithful to you.   Or don't accept that and get divorced. 

[tattoobunnie]

Nothing will change until you change.

He is the same broken record.  You've given him your love.  Fighting with love won't change anything, nor this dynamic.

[HonestySeeker]

Thanks to all of you. I am still trying to decide several things but I know what you are saying it mostly true. Of course, there are many details that I haven't included but 5 years of this relationship is just too much to share. 

RedSwim30- you asked if he admitted he had a problem to his ex, yes, he did actually and sought counseling on his own but didn't continue because she divorced him anyway. He also admitted to me during the first big blow up with us that he has a sex addiction, started counseling but when I dropped the divorce he stopped. He really doesn't believe in counseling so not sure it will ever help someone that doesn't believe in it. I know it is part of his narcissistic personality in that he is never really wrong. I know that without a professional he won't change but I also know that he has to want to, which will require him believing it is wrong, which apparently he doesn't deep down. I want to ask him if he is OK with me signing up on these sites and being with other people when I am traveling or he is out of town. I already know the answer to that but I want him to have to think about it. 

He had a boss during the first few years of his first marriage with a lot of money. He introduced him to the whole lifestyle of having affairs in every city they visited and he did it for about 6 years. It became the normal for him and he traveled weekly all over the world. He says he hates this man for ever showing him this type of lifestyle but I know this is when the addiction started. This is why I think he is able to be faithful as long as neither of us is traveling. As long as we are together he doesn't cheat or go on those sites. Of course, I know we cannot always be together so in one way or another we have to deal with the problem. 

I really appreciate you all letting me openly discuss this. It helps me think through it and your comments help as well. 

[MissCanuck]

2 hours ago, tattoobunnie said:

He is the same broken record.  You've given him your love.  Fighting with love won't change anything, nor this dynamic.

Exactly. 

OP, understand that if you stay in this marriage, he will always be seeking out other women. It's who he is. 

He's not monogamous. 

[boltnrun]

1 hour ago, HonestySeeker said:

I think he is able to be faithful as long as neither of us is traveling. As long as we are together he doesn't cheat or go on those sites.

So in other words, if you're there to babysit him he doesn't have the OPPORTUNITY to cheat. It's not that he doesn't want to.

[lostandhurt]

Obviously you want to save your marriage so lets go from there.

  Since he will not attend therapy with a carrot you need to use the stick as this is all he will respond to.

I am not a fan of ultimatums but in this case I see no other way.  Here is my suggestion:

You sit him down and tell him you do not want to be interrupted and he needs to let you talk until finished. Then you tell him you know all about his searching of hook up sights and with his past cheating it is obvious to you he still has a problem being faithful.  Tell him he has two options: 1. Agree to and attend therapy for his "addiction" for at least one year and a minimum of 24 sessions OR  2. You both make an appointment with a divorce attorney.

 Simple and to the point.  If he truly has an addiction he will want to do what ever he can to rid himself of it to save the marriage.  Personally I think he is using it as an excuse or something to blame rather than admitting he is a lying cheater.

 This way you don't have to choose, he will decide for you.

 Lost

[Wiseman2]

23 hours ago, HonestySeeker said:

 he is an amazing husband. He cooks, cleans, plans special days, vacations, helps my kids that are not his, is good to his parents and mine, well known and liked in the area, as I said the sex in great too! 

You can let him know your findings, but he may come up with lies and excuses.  You could suggest an open relationship to level the field. Ironically cheaters don't like to be cheated on because of their humongous egos. This suggestion could reveal a lot.

But that may take away the fun of his sneaking around and this cat-mouse-game.  He likes "outsmarting" you and you like outsmarting him. 

Check your credit cards, credit score and all the activities in any of your accounts. Whether he's hiring escorts or meeting mistresses, it usually takes money. 

You can implore him to go to therapy, but that won't help as much because he'll just go through the motions

However you going privately and confidentiality to unpack and sort out what's going on with you, could help a lot. Since cheating involves a lot of lies and gaslighting, you'll need a neutral professional in your corner to confide in.

[boltnrun]

My dear friend's husband spent $1500 in one night at a strip club while he was on a work trip. He then tried to say SHE was the one who'd gone to the strip club and spent all that money. Yep, she loaded up their toddler and drove several hundred miles late at night so she and her toddler could enjoy some lap dances from a female stripper. 🙄

This man was having multiple affairs, BTW. And yes, he blamed his wife for not giving him "enough attention".

[TacticalLinguine]

9 hours ago, boltnrun said:

My dear friend's husband spent $1500 in one night at a strip club while he was on a work trip. He then tried to say SHE was the one who'd gone to the strip club and spent all that money. Yep, she loaded up their toddler and drove several hundred miles late at night so she and her toddler could enjoy some lap dances from a female stripper. 🙄

This man was having multiple affairs, BTW. And yes, he blamed his wife for not giving him "enough attention".

Bit off-topic but the way some cheaters think is so astonishingly dumb it’s almost comical :’)

It’s incredible, honestly. 

[redswim30]

On 7/14/2023 at 12:13 PM, HonestySeeker said:

 

RedSwim30- you asked if he admitted he had a problem to his ex, yes, he did actually and sought counseling on his own but didn't continue because she divorced him anyway. He also admitted to me during the first big blow up with us that he has a sex addiction, started counseling but when I dropped the divorce he stopped. He really doesn't believe in counseling so not sure it will ever help someone that doesn't believe in it. I know it is part of his narcissistic personality in that he is never really wrong. I know that without a professional he won't change but I also know that he has to want to, which will require him believing it is wrong, which apparently he doesn't deep down. I want to ask him if he is OK with me signing up on these sites and being with other people when I am traveling or he is out of town. I already know the answer to that but I want him to have to think about it. 

 

You're a smart person, OP.  You already know the answers and you are correct- 

Counseling will never help someone who doesn't think they are wrong and aren't interested in change. 

Whether he thinks it's "right" or "wrong" doesn't really matter, OP.  People can know or even have the opinion something is "wrong" and do it anyway.  Sometimes that is the allure of it in the first place. 

For the sake of argument let's say he does have " an addiction" (I think he just enjoys cheating, but the sake of argument)- Addicts usually know what they are doing isn't good for them (I come from a family who lost members due to addiction, so I can say this pretty confidently), but they simply can't stop.  The addiction gives them something that they feel they need.  But with any kind of addiction, you can't LOGIC or TRICK someone out of it.  (That seems to be a game you are playing with yourself-  "I'll outsmart him".  Trust me, family members of addicts have tried those tactics, but anyone who has ever loved an addict will tell you- THEY WILL NOT STOP UNTIL THEY CHOOSE TO.  You can do every single thing, say every single thing, have the best intentions, etc- it still won't stop them until they decide to stop.  Believe me, I know first hand how frustrating and sad this is when it is someone you love.  But the truth is that YOU can't do anything to stop them unless they want to. 

Your husband doesn't want to.   So again, you have two choices. 

1. Either shake things up by doing something different- IE  Tell him you spied on him and that you know he was going on hookup sites and that you will not stand for it. TELLING HIM TO LEAVE and that you are going to seek a divorce if he does not take concrete actions to stop.  That if your marriage is going to survive, he needs to stop this.  And MEAN IT.  Don't drop it.  

2. Cut out the above step and just get divorced. 

 

If you do not do either of these, nothing will change, OP.   I'm sorry if this sounds harsh, but I hate to see you tangle yourself in knots thinking there's some way you will "outsmart" him out of behaving this way.   You keep saying variations of " I want him to think about that!"  What does it matter what he THINKS if his actions stay the same?  

[NighttimeNightmare]

On 7/8/2023 at 1:08 PM, HonestySeeker said:

He cheated on his first wife for years while traveling the world. We discussed this at length and of course, he says she didn't want sex ever, and that was why. I have actually confirmed this with mutual friends.

So? A reason isn’t a justification or excuse.  Any time he doesn’t get what he wants he gets to break an agreement and “cheat”? Then point his finger and blame his poor coping mechanisms on his partner? Jesus, by this logic, anything goes. I can break any rule I want, harm anyone I want, and then turn around and blame them for it. 
 

On 7/8/2023 at 1:08 PM, HonestySeeker said:

Anyway, while I was traveling twice he was reaching out to other people that he had been with before

Of course he was, because his cheating has nothing to do with his partner, it has to do with his character.  

[LotusBlack]

On 7/14/2023 at 7:17 AM, HonestySeeker said:

I am smarter than he is

Hi OP, just as a previous poster above said - I comment with respect and care. But, I really question the validity of this mindset. You are making choices about your marriage, particularly remaining in it, that causes you mental and emotional distress. Yet, you knowingly keep doing it and he knows that you will too, so he need not worry about your speculations. The very fact that you constantly talk to him about it and question him means that he knows you are suspicious and untrusting, but yet does not change his habits. So, again, I question the validity of this statement because I feel it is very much not the case, and I mean that with no disrespect.

Furthermore, I think it is a massive cop out to minimise what he is CHOOSING to do as being the result of a sex addiction. I don’t even believe in sex addiction, I think people just like sex because they like it. If he were truly addicted to sex and you provided all the sex he needed as, by your own admission, your sex life is great, then he need not seek elsewhere what he is already getting plentiful of. 

So, as others have stated (since leaving is not an option to you), accept him for who he is - a filthy cheater. That really is all you can do.