In love with a friend, passed over for a younger woman

[saren]

I have a pattern of limerance and have spent the last 10 years secretly in love with a friend. I am 39, he is 38.

After we would visit in a group of friends one of us would give the other a ride home and talk until 3am. This pattern of bonding went on for … 13 years. He knows all my secrets and my considered him the closest person to me in my life.

This week I learned he is getting married in 5 weeks (!!!) to a 23 year old. He dropped this on our friend group. We never knew he was even seeing anyone. We have all known him for 13-15 years or so. I was gutted. I discovered that this girl was the same person I heard him mention several years ago when they met at a function (she was a teenager). She’s now grown and they work in the same industry. I was gutted because I don’t feel like I even know who this man is anymore. It’s OK if you want privacy in your relationships but privacy and secrecy are different. Hiding the primary relationship in your life from your closest friends for 1.5 years to the point that we don’t even know she exists, is secrecy on the level of what adulterers and groomers do. I say groomer because I am not entirely convinced this didn’t happen. I also Learned this man had a Grade 12 girlfriend when he was 30. You think you know a guy….

There was also the matter of my feelings for this man. Since any hope that we would be together is now dashed, I took the opportunity to tell him that I always had feelings for him but never explicitly said anything because of crippling fear of rejection and a sense that he wasn’t interested. I asked him why he never considered or approached me - I’ve been here all this time. He said that he has different criteria for partners as for friends. Fair. I would say I have the same criteria for partners as for friends, with additional criteria added for partners. He said he wants someone he can “look down on” - then he corrected himself - he wants someone he can look after in a paternalistic way. In other (ie my) words, he wants that adulation and power imbalance of being an older man with a very sheltered young girl who looks up to him. He continued that when he looks at me, he sees us as equals, or even that I’m someone who has surpassed him. I’m a little older than him (he pointed this out), I’m well established in my career, I make more money than him and I have my own home/mortgage. He didn’t like some things about my personality: I have a “big” personality and talk a lot when we are with friends. He wants quiet and peaceful in the home. In private at home, I am an introvert, and crave peace, quiet, security and safety, and a safe partner I can trust. I didn’t think we were incompatible.

I moved to where I live to be nearer to him, and our regular friend group and activities, and I chose this home with him in mind, should he choose me. It’s 5min from his work and has a nice space for a study for him. It made me so happy to do that for him. He was the first person to come see it when I bought it and was fixing it up. I worked hard to learn as much as I can to be a good all rounder: I am a good cook, I can hang drywall and install a floor and a toilet, I know how to make sacrifices. I adored him, and I worked hard to make myself strong in the areas where he is a little weaker, I imagined complimentarity, like a good dovetail joint in old carpentry. He says he’s a dreamer and wants to keep his inner child alive. He wants another dreamer, which is why I assume he likes them young, which gets concerning as he gets older (think Leonardo DiCaprio without all the money). This young girl is sheltered, lives with her parents and is very inexperienced in everything. He has no plans for how he intends to support a wife. His housing situation is unstable. He told me last year he can’t afford a cat.

And I wanted to give him the world…

He didn’t like that I am always talking about practical things. I feel like the safest place to be a dreamer and dream is within the safe walls and foundation that practical built. I feel like these things and the things I’ve achieved through the work and sacrifices I made are some of the things that would make me a great partner. I am steady and reliable and not a complete uggo, but I am no great beauty either. I’m pretty average in looks. We are fairly well matched in terms of physical attractiveness for people our age, and even the shallower physical attributes that I really like in men that he doesn’t have (height) are not deal breakers for me. That I have a big personality, can get loud when I get excited, am practically-minded, are things that I never expected to be deal breakers to someone else. But I am certainly not a wide-eyed innocent looking up to him to take care of me like a daddy.

I am gutted that after all my best efforts to have something to bring to the table to him as a partner were rejected for a shiny young thing. I entertained a limerant fantasy of marrying this man for over 10 years, and am ashamed that I ever asked him such questions as “If I have to move _______, would you come with me?” And was met with evasion. He would evade, but was happy to string me along. There is no way he had no idea of my feelings.

This union has resulted in a lot of pain. I’m in pain. The girl’s parents are against it and moved the family out of state in hopes she would forget about guy. She’s in pain because she is close with her family and hates that the conflict this has brought him. He thinks her parents have to get used to the fact that their kids have to leave the nest and start their own lives. HIS parents are fighting with HIM. I told him he doesn’t look like he’s very happy about this, he just said he wants to get past the wedding date and for this all to to be over. He feels like it’s them against the world and he has to get other people on his side. I’m not sure how I feel about trying to build one’s happiness on top of other people’s pain.

I wonder if she’s pregnant or something…

I just gave a bad feeling about all of this…. At this point, if they broke up and he showed up on my door step I don’t think I would want him because I wasn’t anywhere near his first choice.  Help me get over this man, please!

 

[Jaunty]

I'm sorry.  I recalled that you posted about this guy back in 2016.  Things were not progressing at that time and he turned down your requests to get together in a more date - like way.    I'm not sure why you have carried on for the ensuing years, building this up in your head,  shaping your entire life around your fantasy of being together.   It's very important that you stop this and free yourself up.  You might need to get some professional help to do it.   

You really owe it to yourself to move on, and it absolutely can be accomplished.  But you'll have to change your own ways.

[saren]

Oh my goodness, @Jaunty, has it been that long?  I know that you’re totally right.  I think most of this comes from attachment/abandonment wounds and CPTSD stuff.  I can’t afford therapy right now, so I wonder what the best option is to start healing from that stuff.

Because honestly, if one of my friends came to me with this story, I’d quote Dan Savage and tell her to “DTMFA!”

[Kwothe28]

Damn, woman in frienzone. That is rare. 10 years in fantasy about the guy who never even looked at you the same way. What did you expect? To marry you after you both turn 40 and have no one else? Its just your fantasy. And to call him a "groomer" after he passed you on for a younger woman tells a lot more about you then about him. But that is probably just ego talking.

I think waffle or somebody else here mentioned something about standards. And that women in general care about stuff like who earns what, career etc. While men mostly care about looks. So in attraction of the opposite sex, men should work more about career while woman should work more on looks, not the other way around. I think it has some merit especially in what you are saying. You did good career wise and that is all good. But in the grand order of things, when it comes to men, it really doesnt matter. In reality that kind of thing can just scare the guy, not attract him. I have a politician friend that left his now ex girlfriend because he couldnt beat her at anything. She made way more money, she read more books and was more eloquent, she had higher sex drive then him. So it made him feel inadequate. Same with your friend. You earning more doesnt mean a thing. He wanted somebody young, pretty and inexperienced. Where he could be a dominant one. And that is fine, everybody are entilted to their own opinion even though its maybe not good for them. No need to involve your ego just because you were passed on for a younger model.

Also I am sorry, but you spent 10 years on a fantasy. About the man that is nothing special, cant even afford a cat and is lusting for a way younger women. That you now call a groomer. At some point you should have broken from that fantasy and actually pursue somebody decent that would actualy liked you the way you are. And not think how you are old for him even though you were the same age. Did you even dated in 10 years or just lived in a fantasy world?

[Wiseman2]

3 hours ago, saren said:

This week I learned he is getting married in 5 weeks.

Sorry this happened. Even though it stings right now, it's a road to freedom for you. It's the closure you need to move forward.

Perhaps this news can finally set you free from a nebulous unrequited crush.

Invest in yourself. Get a good profile and pics on quality dating apps and start talking to and meeting men.

[Batya33]

I don't think he did anything wrong -his choice to keep his romantic life private for his own personal reasons.  It's also not wrong on his part to know you were not a match for him romantically. 

I'm really sorry you got your hopes up and did all this stuff to try to "get" him but getting all judgey about him and his choices is just going to make you feel cynical and jaded.  And it's kind of not fair to confess feelings to someone who is engaged or nearly so -of course he is going to stay with the woman he wants to marry. Again I'm sorry you're so disappointed!

My friend did what you did for 4 years, same age range.  She met this handsome arrogant guy through a shared activity where they saw each other regularly when she was in her mid 30s.  She was besotted with him. I met him too  -handsome and arrogant.  They became good friends and were in a friend group through the activity. She went on some dates with others -I set her up too -but lackadaisically - she was so pretty and so smart and a great person.

After 4 years (and one outburst from me -she was gushing over how he'd put her legs on her lap at the airport waiting for a trip they were all taking and I just couldn't help it anymore and expressed frustration about how he likely knew she was into him and leading her on with all this flirtation). - A few months later they spent the day together as friends.  He told her he'd been dating-secretly -another woman in their group for a few years and they kept it secret and now they'd broken up.  

Did he ask her out? No.  Why? Because obviously he was never that into her.  She's my age- mid 50s -she's never been in a serious relationship since then (she was, in her 20s/early 30s), never had kids although she wanted them and she's very overweight now.  She seems happy via FB posts but it's much harder to meet people at your age and she wasted all those years.  Please don't waste another second. At least your guy didn't flirt with you like in my example.

[saren]

@Batya33 thank you for your reply.  You’re spot on with your comments, and logically I know these things in my brain, but to quote that great old Jim Croce song, ‘that’s just not the way it feels’.  And the disregulation I’ve been experiencing this week is no joke, let me tell you.  I haven’t been able to take more than 2 meals since Sunday and have probably clocked 8 hours of sleep since Saturday night.  I need to get a handle on this before I go back to work on Wednesday.

I don’t actually expect him to have any great revelation from my words and leave her for me.  He didn’t want me when he didn’t have her.  I hated that.  I hated that I couldn’t do anything about it.  I just wanted to get it out before it got too weird from me bottling it up all week until I see him again.  I haven’t actually heard from him since then, which is no surprise.  I’ll just leave him be until it’s time for our regular meetup (he’s my ride, so, heh, we’ll see).

I’ve been reeling from the blindside and the hard cold reality, so I figured I should work it out a little in a safe place like this rather than get all weird with my friend group.

It’s like a withdrawal process.  It’s not a good time but I hope there is light in the morning after that long night.

[Andrina]

Like anything, it takes time to heal and there are no shortcuts to that. And if you don't learn a lesson from that experience, you will repeat the same pattern. That would mean that if you're interested in a man, you don't let more than two months go by without finding out if dating is in the picture or not. If he doesn't ask, either you do or you don't, and then move on if he's not interested. Getting an answer should be your goal. Making yourself temporally vulnerable is far less egregious than wasting a decade on someone who doesn't share your interest. And no longer be close buddies with a guy you want more with. Stick to female friends. This will ensure you're fully emotionally free to bond with a guy who has asked you out.

Perhaps pining for someone unattainable meant you're really weren't psychologically ready for a relationship. It's like playacting and fantasizing felt safer for you than what a real relationship entails. Reminds me of young teen girls who aren't ready to date yet, but they are mentally practicing by severely crushing on a celebrity.

I agree with Batya about you disclosing your feelings after he was already in a relationship. That's a really unethical thing to do. If you don't know if something is unethical or not, think about things like: If his fiancee was there when you said that, would she be okay with it or upset? 

It's actually also unethical for you to continue the same type of friendship you've had with him now that he's taken, because of the way you feel about him. I know that if he was my fiancee, I'd expect a woman who has a crush on him would ethically fade from that close friend status to a status of being friendly when encountering each other in a group setting.

Perhaps you should spend less time with this group and expand your social horizons joining other Meetup groups and maybe begin a new hobby. When you're no longer emotionally attached to him, joining a Meetup group for singles in your age group might be a good way to meet local single men.

Good luck for a new start in 2023.

[boltnrun]

He didn't "reject" you for someone younger. He didn't know you wanted to date him.

You mention how financially stable you are yet say you "can't afford" therapy. I think you can but you don't want therapy because you'd have to let go of a dozen years plus fantasy and live in the real world and that scares you. But it's vital. After all, if you were diagnosed with cancer or another serious illness would you claim you "can't afford" to see a doctor? This is just as important.

[saren]

@Andrina You know, at the beginning of our conversation last week, I told him that very soon we’re not going to be able to sit alone in the car and talk like this all night long and be this close, that it wouldn’t be appropriate and I don’t want to be emotionally bonded to a married man.  He told me that he doesn’t expect much to change save being less available.  I told him everything is going to change.  My intention is to transition to friendly and cordial, but that he is no longer my primary support person.

@boltnrun Good catch.  The money thing is a situational thing.  I got rear ended on the highway early last month, so most of my resources right now are going towards the replacement of my car and the treatment of my injuries so I can continue to work.  Was not expecting to cash flow an acute psychological event at the same time as well!  🙂  Definitely aware that it is needed and necessary though.  Sometimes everything hits at once. 

[Batya33]

Obviously it’s hard to react to feelings and do what’s right and healthy. It’s just part of life. You can control how you react. If you can’t control then you get some sort of professional help if your reactions are dangerous etc. 

I agree you took the safe way out pining for him from afar. And your “confession “ was all about you and your feelings and your choice to indulge in oversharing.  I’m glad that’s going to stop.  Be his friend by being supportive of his relationship and upcoming marriage or keep your distance. JMHO

[Jaunty]

3 hours ago, saren said:

@Batya33

I’ve been reeling from the blindside

Forgive me, but how can you call this a "blindside"?  You've been carrying a torch of unrequited love and living your entire life for that for over a decade.  

You're probably talking about the fiancee, but really, it's just all included in his private life, which he's always kept private. 

[Batya33]

I also don't think you were passed over as he saw you as a friend. Her age is irrelevant.

[Lambert]

Hi @saren

I think you are getting some much-needed insight into your role in all of this.  I am sorry.  It's harsh to hear a lot of this stuff.  And I am sorry, too, for the car accident and the troubles you are going through.  Momma said there'd be days like this.  

Therapy and the help a therapist can provide might not be an option for you right now.  But you can start some self-exploration.  From what you have written, it sounds like (for years) you put the value of someone else over yourself.  Why?

I can see that you feel betrayed, one because you held this guy in such high regard and esteem.  He was your closest friend, but he was in a very serious relationship, but he never mentioned it to you.  That is while hurtful, it's also very telling.   

When you were baring your soul to him about your life and all. did he confide anything in you? 

There is a lot to process, and it is going to take time.  I think the best thing you can do is look at yourself.  Whatever he did or didn't do, it went on for a long time with no evaluation from you.  Why would you give so much to another person, that wasn't giving it back?  

I think you might want to look for some books about self-love and self-esteem.  People who love themselves have boundaries and when their needs are not being met, they take action to care for themselves.  

For some reason you pushed yourself aside and allowed this man to be #1 in your life, even over yourself.  You should never do this.  You always have to be your own person. I know as a young woman I always heard things like-- "you have to make the guy commit; you have to make the guy chase you" and so on.  But that is BS. 

You can't make anyone do anything... All you can do is CHOOSE for YOURSELF what you will and won't accept.  And the way you choose is by turning away from people who do not give you what you want.  Not by doubling down to make them change. 

You can't change anyone.  And when a guy your same age says, weird things, like you're older than him.  You gotta wonder.  You gotta start questioning BS and seeing people for who they ARE not what you want them to be.  And that comes from being a parent to yourself and not allowing yourself, your time, and your love to be wasted on someone who is offering you nothing.   

The good news is-- you can heal and grow, become a stronger person, find love and have a happy life.  As long as you are alive, there's time to change.  Forget this guy.  You owe you more.  

 

[smackie9]

What happened was the slap in the face you needed. Your world revolved around this guy from where you live to being so available to him. It's now your chance to think about YOU, and discover you to do things based on what you want and need for yourself. Once you have made steps to adjust to a new way of seeing life and what it has to offer, you will be healed and fulfilled. Just a tip, a man cannot give you a life, only you can do that. In time the residual of all this will wear off because you are moving forward. 

[DarkCh0c0]

Honestly, wasn't the fact that he's a groomer a deal-breaker for you? This is one of the most off-putting and disgusting things a man can do. And, he didn't reject you for your age as in "you're old". He rejected you because he knew he couldn't have enough hold over your mature personality to manipulate you. He literally told you that, yet you keep thinking of him.

If what he's told you about his love live wasn't off putting enough for you to run to the hills, then there's something off in your self esteem and you need to explore that. You NEED to get therapy and move on. It's about time that you seek healthy, available and mature partners.

[Batya33]

1 minute ago, DarkCh0c0 said:

Honestly, wasn't the fact that he's a groomer a deal-breaker for you? This is one of the most off-putting and disgusting things a man can do. And, he didn't reject you for your age as in "you're old". He rejected you because he knew he couldn't have enough hold over your mature personality to manipulate you. He literally told you that, yet you keep thinking of him.

If what he's told you about his love live wasn't off putting enough for you to run to the hills, then there's something off in your self esteem and you need to explore that. You NEED to get therapy and move on. It's about time that you love to healthy, available and mature partners.

I read it is as he didn't see their personalities as compatible in a long term romantic relationship as opposed to a platonic friendship.  He was being honest in what he thought would be a good match for him.  She wasn't it.

[DarkCh0c0]

18 minutes ago, Batya33 said:

He was being honest in what he thought would be a good match for him.  She wasn't it.

Yes. That, but he's also a groomer. He was involved with a girl since her teens. I'm utterly baffled at how she didn't find this revolting and disgusting. I would have worried about that girl instead of wasting my energy on a predator.

[Batya33]

8 minutes ago, DarkCh0c0 said:

Yes. That, but he's also a groomer. He was involved with a girl since her teens. I'm utterly baffled at how she didn't find this revolting and disgusting. I would have worried about that girl instead of wasting my energy on a predator.

I am reading one side of a story from a very biased person.  It doesn't say he was with her romantically when she was a teenager -they worked in the same industry. Now she is 23.  

[DarkCh0c0]

40 minutes ago, Batya33 said:

I am reading one side of a story from a very biased person.  It doesn't say he was with her romantically when she was a teenager -they worked in the same industry. Now she is 23.  

OP said it herself:

16 hours ago, saren said:

to the point that we don’t even know she exists, is secrecy on the level of what adulterers and groomers do. I say groomer because I am not entirely convinced this didn’t happen. I also Learned this man had a Grade 12 girlfriend when he was 30. You think you know a guy….

And then he said:

16 hours ago, saren said:

He said he wants someone he can “look down on” - then he corrected himself - he wants someone he can look after in a paternalistic way. In other (ie my) words, he wants that adulation and power imbalance of being an older man with a very sheltered young girl who looks up to him.

And then you have the parents trying to protect her from him:

16 hours ago, saren said:

The girl’s parents are against it and moved the family out of state in hopes she would forget about guy.

If OP thinks there something off, it's off. I just don't get why she's so hung up on him when he has so many red flags.

[saren]

Just now, DarkCh0c0 said:

OP said it herself:

And then he said:

And then you have the parents trying to protect her from him:

If OP thinks there something off, it's off. I just don't get why she's so hung up on him when he has so many red flags.

I don’t know.  That’s why I said it was like an addiction.  I took some advice of the people above and went into debt today to book some therapy.

(they advised therapy, not debt.)

Hopefully, someone with different education than mine can crack this. 

[DarkCh0c0]

11 minutes ago, saren said:

That’s why I said it was like an addiction.  I took some advice of the people above and went into debt today to book some therapy.

(they advised therapy, not debt.)

I'm happy to hear this.

Please try at least 2 different therapists to see which one fits you best.

Getting into debt because of therapy will save you from a more costly mental health bill.

[Batya33]

1 hour ago, DarkCh0c0 said:

OP said it herself:

And then he said:

And then you have the parents trying to protect her from him:

If OP thinks there something off, it's off. I just don't get why she's so hung up on him when he has so many red flags.

I take everything she said with a huge grain of salt because of her bias and because her level of attachment to him and her general reaction that she was entitled to know about his personal romantic life, and her judging him for not thinking she was a compatible romantic match for him -that to me is off - and so I'm going to have to disagree that she's looking at this and sharing information from any sort of objective, reasonable perspective. As she described it -a "limerant fantasy" of marrying this man for 10 years" and that he lead her on and how dare he not want someone back who wanted to "give him the world" -to me that is far more concerning/red flaggish than how she describes how she sees his future spouse.

[SooSad33]

On 1/6/2023 at 12:09 AM, saren said:

I was gutted because I don’t feel like I even know who this man is anymore. It’s OK if you want privacy in your relationships but privacy and secrecy are different.

Is it okay?  Not in your eyes because you had a crush on him.  Is the only reason YOU are freaking. ( So often I say, is always best to deal with your own - not opposite sex, when it come to those we hang with & 'friend').  Otherwise, stuff like this happens...

 

On 1/6/2023 at 12:09 AM, saren said:

Hiding the primary relationship in your life from your closest friends for 1.5 years to the point that we don’t even know she exists, is secrecy on the level of what adulterers and groomers do. I say groomer because I am not entirely convinced this didn’t happen. I also Learned this man had a Grade 12 girlfriend when he was 30.

Hiding? Or just not admitting?

When did you learn of his gr 12 gf?  Recently as well?

 

On 1/6/2023 at 12:09 AM, saren said:

There was also the matter of my feelings for this man. Since any hope that we would be together is now dashed, I took the opportunity to tell him that I always had feelings for him but never explicitly said anything because of crippling fear of rejection and a sense that he wasn’t interested. I asked him why he never considered or approached me - I’ve been here all this time. He said that he has different criteria for partners as for friends. Fair.

Right.  You are his 'friend'. It is how he has always seen you.  (and for you to keep your feelings to yourself.. for 10 yrs.. well then HIS life will go on.

 

On 1/6/2023 at 12:09 AM, saren said:

I moved to where I live to be nearer to him, and our regular friend group and activities, and I chose this home with him in mind, should he choose me. It’s 5min from his work and has a nice space for a study for him. It made me so happy to do that for him. He was the first person to come see it when I bought it and was fixing it up. I worked hard to learn as much as I can to be a good all rounder: I am a good cook, I can hang drywall and install a floor and a toilet, I know how to make sacrifices. I adored him, and I worked hard to make myself strong in the areas where he is a little weaker,

I am sorry you went to this extent - but you did this on your own.  Like you were living a 'fantasy type' life.

 

On 1/6/2023 at 12:09 AM, saren said:

This young girl is sheltered, lives with her parents and is very inexperienced in everything. He has no plans for how he intends to support a wife. His housing situation is unstable. He told me last year he can’t afford a cat.

- and this... is not your problem.  You just need to sit back and accept/respect his choices.

 

On 1/6/2023 at 12:09 AM, saren said:

She’s in pain because she is close with her family and hates that the conflict this has brought him. He thinks her parents have to get used to the fact that their kids have to leave the nest and start their own lives. HIS parents are fighting with HIM. I told him he doesn’t look like he’s very happy about this, he just said he wants to get past the wedding date and for this all to to be over. He feels like it’s them against the world and he has to get other people on his side. I’m not sure how I feel about trying to build one’s happiness on top of other people’s pain.

Yeah, this is a sad situation, but hey, this is on them!  If he does this & ends up with regrets... oh well.  Was his choice...right? 😉 

 

On 1/6/2023 at 12:09 AM, saren said:

At this point, if they broke up and he showed up on my door step I don’t think I would want him because I wasn’t anywhere near his first choice.  Help me get over this man, please!

I think you will, in time, on your own.

I am sure, in ways, you're already looking at him differently. So, give it time and you'll start dissing him well enough.

He has now shown you & proven his actions & behaviour of that, which you do not agree with in the least.

 

Is time to throw away those thoughts & dreams you had of this guy.  He's odd and he makes wrong choices & you are correct, he is NOT your type.

Yeah, it'll take a bit of time to get over it all.  But, believe you will. ( I often journal - writing out ALL I wanted to say to 'him'. I'd do it daily, as I 'vented' it out.  It does help work through those emotions).

Again, sorry you've been so emotionally ruined by this guy, but we live & learn.  I'd say it was a tough lesson and I would never have assumed anything on anyone for 10 years.  

Give it time... get yourself back to good and go join a local singles group or get on a dating site.. start touring now!

[Wiseman2]

10 hours ago, saren said:

 went into debt today to book some therapy.

Do you have health insurance? Go to a physician for an evaluation of your physical and mental health. Get some tests done. Ask for a referral to an affordable mental health clinic or therapist.

Sadly you're going through the sour grapes stage of being disappointed. That's ok. it's part of the healing. However making insinuations about pedophilia won't help you move forward. Your mind is simply trying to grasp things.

Unfortunately you were never in any sort of relationship with him, so much of your pain stems from loneliness and isolation in general.