Playful Banter

[yogacat]

Where do you draw the line on playful banter or flirting whether in person or over messages?

The obvious ones are unsolicited photos, overly sexual comments, and repeated and persistent playful banter or flirtation.

Say you're sort of intrigued. But then they say something that make you think, "okay, too much?"

For instance, if you're in the early stages of talking to someone before a date and they're already making hints or innuendos I find it presumptuous. I'm not talking about "hey, I want to bend you over and spank you" type of comments, I mean little suggestive comments that hint toward sex or physical attraction. 

 

[ShySoul]

I hate to say it because it feels like a cop out, but it probably all depends on the person. Everyone's line is different. As someone who is more sensitive and private, I'd probably be quicker to become uncomfortable or uneasy by someone's comments. On the other hand, a lot of people tend to enjoy more crass or inappriopriate humor. They might not even realize what they are saying because they are so used to hearing it or saying those kind of things with friends.

I think you draw the line when you stop enjoying the banter, when it's no longer fun for you. No one should be made to feel uncomfortable, so if you are then it's too much. 

If it's something little, I'd probably tell the person. This is the getting to know each other phase, right? So getting to know each others boundaries and what you think is off limit comments should be a part of that. That's also a good way to evaluate their character. If they are sorry for offending you and agree to watch themselves, it's a good sign. If they get offended and feel the need to defend themselves, probably a warning sign.

[Batya33]

1 hour ago, yogacat said:

Where do you draw the line on playful banter or flirting whether in person or over messages?

The obvious ones are unsolicited photos, overly sexual comments, and repeated and persistent playful banter or flirtation.

Say you're sort of intrigued. But then they say something that make you think, "okay, too much?"

For instance, if you're in the early stages of talking to someone before a date and they're already making hints or innuendos I find it presumptuous. I'm not talking about "hey, I want to bend you over and spank you" type of comments, I mean little suggestive comments that hint toward sex or physical attraction. 

 

When I was in contact with a man through a dating site we exchanged a few messages and had one phone call then hopefully met within a week or so.  I did not meet him or stay in touch if he made any sexual comments or jokes.  Full stop the end.  Innuendo included.  I never went there either with a stranger I hadn't yet met.  It was one reason I never met without a phone call. Screening for that and to me that's part of a safety screening.  And values/stuff in common -if he thought it was ok to banter like that I knew we never would be a match.

I was in touch with hundreds of men and met over 100 in person.

[catfeeder]

2 hours ago, Batya33 said:

When I was in contact with a man through a dating site we exchanged a few messages and had one phone call then hopefully met within a week or so.  I did not meet him or stay in touch if he made any sexual comments or jokes.  Full stop the end.  Innuendo included.  I never went there either with a stranger I hadn't yet met.  It was one reason I never met without a phone call. Screening for that and to me that's part of a safety screening.  And values/stuff in common -if he thought it was ok to banter like that I knew we never would be a match.

I was in touch with hundreds of men and met over 100 in person.

I agree with this. It's not about being turned off by anything sexual if I know someone well enough, but rather, I'm attracted to the intelligence of a man who would never resort to that with a stranger.

[yogacat]

Thanks for the comments!

I recall one particular moment when the comments made after our initial date seemed to carry a subtle air of suggestive undertones. It left me with a sense of unease, as if there was a insinuation that our next outing would be full of wild, "fun" experiences.

Is that supposed to be innuendo?

That's kind of how I interpreted it.

I was looking for more of a genuine connection and getting to know each other.

But overall, the interactions aren't necessarily overly flirtatious or suggestive.

Granted, this person has been a perfect gentlemen leading up to that point and we've talked about more in-depth topics but in retrospect, those remarks just made me feel uneasy. 

Another time -- the man was quite pushy with securing a first date and I disliked how direct he was with conversation. It felt like he was pushing a bit hard to go out and that turned me off a bit. But on the date, he was really cool, and not pushy at all. Perhaps it was just nerves getting the best of him when we were texting beforehand.

Just something I've been thinking about lately. Sometimes if someone is confident and playful, it can end up making the other feel uneasy. Or, that their intentions are more overt and they are indeed trying to be flirtatious or suggestive. 

I dunno, I get weird when men express interest in a way that feels too direct or flirtatious. Maybe I'm guarded but I definitely prefer subtlety and getting to know someone before entering into that type of dynamic. 

[Batya33]

I like how Catfeeder put it and I wouldn't do too much second guessing if something makes you uncomfortable.  

[Kwothe28]

1 hour ago, yogacat said:

I recall one particular moment when the comments made after our initial date seemed to carry a subtle air of suggestive undertones. It left me with a sense of unease, as if there was a insinuation that our next outing would be full of wild, "fun" experiences.

Is that supposed to be innuendo?

Eh, probably?

I have a theory that anything that has been tried(including D pics) is because at least somebody was comfortable enough with it. People learn sometimes through trials and errors. So what worked once it may work sometimes after. If it doesnt than they change MO and try something else. So suggestion probably worked on somebody who is more inclined to bring relationship on physical levels. Its OK that you are not, every person is different regarding it.

[yogacat]

15 minutes ago, Kwothe28 said:

Eh, probably?

I have a theory that anything that has been tried(including D pics) is because at least somebody was comfortable enough with it. People learn sometimes through trials and errors. So what worked once it may work sometimes after. If it doesnt than they change MO and try something else. So suggestion probably worked on somebody who is more inclined to bring relationship on physical levels. Its OK that you are not, every person is different regarding it.

Yes, I figured as much. That's disappointing.

Don't get me wrong, there was a period in my life where I was a little too comfortable being single and a bit of a lion (without the cat), and in that period I 100% would have done that and been fine with it. But none of my LTRS and the majority of dates I have been on included innuendo of any sort initially. Heck, one man I dated, was so bone dry with 0 innuendo I left it feeling like I was almost a lesbian.

I see starting with flirting and innuendo is either because they want it sooner (I assume) or they want it to build up to, I don't know how to phrase it, the point where dating becomes about less about getting to know you but getting to know you physically, I guess.

Yeah, I am quickly realizing that. That's why I am trying to find ways or strategies to cut it off. I don't want to offend or come off as too serious or something. If he was a genuine pig it would make it so much easier. LOL

[Batya33]

13 minutes ago, yogacat said:

Yes, I figured as much. That's disappointing.

Don't get me wrong, there was a period in my life where I was a little too comfortable being single and a bit of a lion (without the cat), and in that period I 100% would have done that and been fine with it. But none of my LTRS and the majority of dates I have been on included innuendo of any sort initially. Heck, one man I dated, was so bone dry with 0 innuendo I left it feeling like I was almost a lesbian.

I see starting with flirting and innuendo is either because they want it sooner (I assume) or they want it to build up to, I don't know how to phrase it, the point where dating becomes about less about getting to know you but getting to know you physically, I guess.

Yeah, I am quickly realizing that. That's why I am trying to find ways or strategies to cut it off. I don't want to offend or come off as too serious or something. If he was a genuine pig it would make it so much easier. LOL

Or it could be they lack a good filter or social skills.  Getting to know a person physically is important too.  

What I would do -if it's gray area innuendo - change the subject.  If he means well he will too.  If to you it's blatant, end the call with an excuse.  See ya.  

[catfeeder]

3 hours ago, yogacat said:

Maybe I'm guarded but I definitely prefer subtlety and getting to know someone before entering into that type of dynamic. 

When you first meet, or even before then, it might be a good idea to clarify for your date up front that you're someone who likes to take things slow and really get to know a person.

Hopefully, that's a clear enough signal to avoid sexual innuendo and expectations. If the guy is not on the same page, he will either self-screen himself out by pushing too hard anyway, or he'll back out of further dating. This is good, because screening is your goal--not catering to keep a guy around if he's not a good match.

[yogacat]

22 minutes ago, catfeeder said:

When you first meet, or even before then, it might be a good idea to clarify for your date up front that you're someone who likes to take things slow and really get to know a person.

Hopefully, that's a clear enough signal to avoid sexual innuendo and expectations. If the guy is not on the same page, he will either self-screen himself out by pushing too hard anyway, or he'll back out of further dating. This is good, because screening is your goal--not catering to keep a guy around if he's not a good match.

Right.

And I am okay with that, him backing out if he wants to.

It just means we're not looking for the same things and that's fine. Albeit, it's funny, because someone mentioned that I have a tendency to platonic date.

I am perfectly fine with platonic dating as long as there's chemistry and mutual interest.

I am fine letting things progress naturally. We'd still be kinda dating, without the physical expectations like making out three hours into the first date or having sleepovers when we barely know each other.

Nice things like coffee dates and meals together, discovering shared interests and talking and such.

And see where things progress from there. Interest in getting to know each other. I still remember what it's like to be excited just to talk to someone else.

[catfeeder]

22 minutes ago, yogacat said:

Right.

And I am okay with that, him backing out if he wants to.

It just means we're not looking for the same things and that's fine. Albeit, it's funny, because someone mentioned that I have a tendency to platonic date.

I am perfectly fine with platonic dating as long as there's chemistry and mutual interest.

I am fine letting things progress naturally. We'd still be kinda dating, without the physical expectations like making out three hours into the first date or having sleepovers when we barely know each other.

Nice things like coffee dates and meals together, discovering shared interests and talking and such.

And see where things progress from there. Interest in getting to know each other. I still remember what it's like to be excited just to talk to someone else.

Great! You have clarity about where you stand. Consider the advantages of raising this with potential dates up front, and being clear about it. It can spare you from disappointments and wasting your time with anyone who doesn't share your vision of dating. That's a good thing.

[rainbowsandroses]

17 hours ago, yogacat said:

For instance, if you're in the early stages of talking to someone before a date and they're already making hints or innuendos I find it presumptuous. I'm not talking about "hey, I want to bend you over and spank you" type of comments, I mean little suggestive comments that hint toward sex or physical attraction. 

Hey yoga, I created a similar thread back in March that pertainiled to 'sexual' banter and sexting, I believe you participated!  :)

Anyway, I realize people have various opinions about chatting online before a meet and for those who prefer not to and get straight to a phone call or meet, they may have a different opinion from those to enjoy chatting first, seeing how well you "vibe" and if there is a mutual attraction.  

For me, I used to not meet any man unless I felt a mutual click online and if we did, there was a bit of playful sexual banter (i.e flirting) NOT sexting, but rather playful that indicated there was an attraction versus a friendship. 

The two men I did meet (at different times) ended up becoming a long term boyfriend and one my husband now ex husband.

There IS a line between "sexting" and "playful sexual banter" imo and any hint towards actually sexting was a NO.

It was totally dependent on the person (man) and how well we vibed and how comfortable we both felt. 

I wasn't comfortable and did not engage in such banter with just any man, again it depended on the man and how well we were vibing. 

I don't think there is any rule about it per se, it's whatever you feel comfortable with with that particular man.

I know women who enjoy full on sexting with a guy before meeting, others who don't enjoy any type of playful sexual banter before meeting.  No matter who the man was or how comfortable she felt. 

I'm wondering can you share what these innuendos were that caused you discomfort?

Was he hinting at full on sexting with you?  For me, no matter how well we clicked or were vibing on line, THAT would be a NO.

That is where I draw the line. 

 

[yogacat]

14 minutes ago, rainbowsandroses said:

Hey yoga, I created a similar thread back in March that pertainiled to 'sexual' banter and sexting, I believe you participated!  🙂

Anyway, I realize people have various opinions about chatting online before a meet and for those who prefer not to and get straight to a phone call or meet, they may have a different opinion from those to enjoy chatting first, seeing how well you "vibe" and if there is a mutual attraction.  

For me, I used to not meet any man unless I felt a mutual click online and if we did, there was a bit of playful sexual banter (i.e flirting) NOT sexting, but rather playful that indicated there was an attraction versus a friendship. 

The two men I did meet (at different times) ended up becoming a long term boyfriend and one my husband now ex husband.

There IS a line between "sexting" and "playful sexual banter" imo and any hint towards actually sexting was a NO.

It was totally dependent on the person (man) and how well we vibed and how comfortable we both felt. 

I wasn't comfortable and did not engage in such banter with just any man, again it depended on the man and how well we were vibing. 

I don't think there is any rule about it per se, it's whatever you feel comfortable with with that particular man.

I know women who enjoy full on sexting with a guy before meeting, others who don't enjoy any type of playful sexual banter before meeting.  No matter who the man was or how comfortable she felt. 

I'm wondering can you share what these innuendos were that caused you discomfort?

Was he hinting at full on sexting with you?  For me, no matter how well we clicked or were vibing on line, THAT would be a NO.

That is where I draw the line. 

Yes I remember that thread! I posted this because it was something that happened recently, which of course, made me reflect back to my experiences in the past. It made me curious to see what others think and how they handle situations like this.

To answer your question, the innuendos were more along the lines of making comments about us having "fun" together.

I think if I recall, you were on a first date with someone and they said they had an erection or something and you found it exciting because you were mutually into each other? Well, that is what is hard for me.

Even if I REALLY liked the guy and he made a comment like that on a first date, it would pop me like a balloon and make me want to run away. 

So, when this guy said, oh, our future dates we could have fun together, it made me think of that (having sexual fun together, etc.). I feel bad because he is sweet and it felt pretty mutual when we first started talking, but I just don't get THAT comfortable unless I really know the person. 

[rainbowsandroses]

15 minutes ago, yogacat said:

I think if I recall, you were on a first date with someone and they said they had an erection or something and you found it exciting because you were mutually into each other? Well, that is what is hard for me.

^^Your recollection is correct yoga, it was "Elevator Guy" and we ended up dating for a few months.  And yes there was a very strong mutual attraction, lots of flirting etc.  No sex however until a few dates in. 

Re bolded, totally fair!  It's such a personal thing yoga and would never tell someone (you) you're wrong for feeling as you do.

You mentioned "platonic dating" in a recent post. I'd never heard of that before and it's an interesting concept!

JMO but I do think it's important to somehow in your own way let a man know that you are attracted to him.

Talking to men, they do need to feel that from a woman; it inspires them to want to move forward with you.  In my experience.

Not talking about three-hour make out sessions on first date or even kissing.  Or overt sexual innuendo or other sexual comments.

Just something to let him know you're attracted and he should do same.  Moving closer, looking at him in an endearing way, smiling.  Brushing his arm. Subtle, nothing overt. 

These things come naturally to me when I'm attracted, I'm not even consciously aware I'm doing them!  

Anyway, of course you do you as they say.... enjoy!  

 

 

 

 

[yogacat]

7 minutes ago, rainbowsandroses said:

^^Your recollection is correct yoga, it was "Elevator Guy" and we ended up dating for a few months.  And yes there was a very strong mutual attraction, lots of flirting etc.  No sex however until a few dates in. 

Re bolded, totally fair!  It's such a personal thing yoga and would never tell someone (you) you're wrong for feeling as you do.

You mentioned "platonic dating" in a recent post. I'd never heard of that before and it's an interesting concept!

JMO but I do think it's important to somehow in your own way let a man know that you are attracted to him.

Talking to men, they do need to feel that from a woman; it inspires them to want to move forward with you.  In my experience.

Not talking about three-hour make out sessions on first date or even kissing.  Or overt sexual innuendo or other sexual comments.

Just something to let him know you're attracted and he should do same.  Moving closer, looking at him in an endearing way, smiling.  Brushing his arm. Subtle, nothing overt. 

These things come naturally to me when I'm attracted, I'm not even consciously aware I'm doing them!  

Anyway, of course you do you as they say.... enjoy!  

 

 

 

 

Yes, totally make sense. I suppose, for me, it was always within the context of a relationship where I let my hair down and went a bit crazy. But, I never really had to demonstrate a physical attraction initially, the guy kinda of pressed on that petal for me.

Don't get me wrong, if I am not serious about the guy I can 100% have fun for a while. And. I can be pretty bold demonstrating I find him attractive in the moment. 

But.

It won't be the "love" kind of feeling I will be expressing. The love kind of feeling, I will be expressing sex once we are in the context of a relationship. 

Oops, got a bit carried away, haha!

But basically my impression is that you’re comfortable setting that tone, demonstrating your attraction in the moment. But I prefer to create an ambience for “love feelings” to be expressed, or maybe more accurate is a time you'd express such feelings, later on.

But in the context of playful banter and flirting - I think for me, the key aspect is whether it feels genuine and respectful. Playful banter is all in good fun and can bring a lightheartedness to the conversation, but there needs to be a level of respect and awareness of the other person's boundaries.

That's what I find much more attractive, when someone can be vulnerable and genuine in their flirting or banter, rather than just trying to be overly sexual or make crude jokes. And that they can still show their true interest without having to solely focus on physical attraction or sex.

[Batya33]

1 hour ago, yogacat said:

am fine letting things progress naturally. We'd still be kinda dating, without the physical expectations like making out three hours into the first date or having sleepovers when we barely know each other.

To me that's not platonic dating.  If we went on a date to see if we should pursue something romantic whether we touched or not that wasn't a platonic interaction in the least.  That's simply a date where you don't happen to have any physical or sexual interaction for whatever reason -maybe someone has a bad cold etc.

[smackie9]

Follow your gut...if it doesn't feel right then it's not.

[Batya33]

1 hour ago, yogacat said:

So, when this guy said, oh, our future dates we could have fun together, it made me think of that (having sexual fun together, etc.). I feel bad because he is sweet and it felt pretty mutual when we first started talking, but I just don't get THAT comfortable unless I really know the person. 

If I thought he meant sexual fun I'd be outta there too - full stop.

[rainbowsandroses]

23 minutes ago, yogacat said:

That's what I find much more attractive, when someone can be vulnerable and genuine in their flirting or banter, rather than just trying to be overly sexual or make crude jokes. 

I agree with this^^ and wouldn't want it or have it be any other way. 100% genuine always.  And I can sense when it's not REAL quick.  

Being genuine and vulnerable while at the same time demonstrating physical attraction without crude jokes and overt sexual innuendo.

To clarify 'Elevator Guy's" comment was subtle and kinda cute actually, we were both very much in the moment and quite attracted.  

I'm with you, the overt crude stuff no thanks!!

It's subtle and again you are quite right about me.  I am very much an "in the moment" person albeit I do have my boundaries and know when and where to draw the line. 

 

[catfeeder]

27 minutes ago, yogacat said:

... in the context of playful banter and flirting - I think for me, the key aspect is whether it feels genuine and respectful. Playful banter is all in good fun and can bring a lightheartedness to the conversation, but there needs to be a level of respect and awareness of the other person's boundaries.

That's what I find much more attractive, when someone can be vulnerable and genuine in their flirting or banter, rather than just trying to be overly sexual or make crude jokes. And that they can still show their true interest without having to solely focus on physical attraction or sex.

This rings true for me, too. I bolded the above because often, in order for such a level of awareness to occur, those boundaries need to be communicated. Otherwise, we'll do what's called 'magical thinking,' where we expect that what's unique to us is (or 'should' be) universally intuited by everyone, and when that's not the case, we'll be disappointed.

That's why one of the first things I try to learn about people who post here is "How clear are YOU about your own values and boundaries goals for dating, and how early and how well do you communicate this crucial information to the people you message or meet or date?"

What you characterize above sounds like your goal is to find simpatico and love. Are you seeking a relationship?

[rainbowsandroses]

2 hours ago, yogacat said:

To answer your question, the innuendos were more along the lines of making comments about us having "fun" together.

Again just me but if a guy and I were vibing well and it felt natural and comfortable, my response would have been something like "can you define fun?" with a playful wink emoji or something.  Rather than assuming he meant purely sexual fun.

I can be quite bold at times and not afraid to push the envelope and ask questions.  I wasn't always this way it was a gradual process of becoming comfortable in my own skin and not becoming attached to a specific outcome.

Saying you could have 'fun' together isn't overt sexual innuendo IMO; "fun" can comprise so many different things. 

I think it was his way of letting you know he was attracted and looking forward to spending time with you.  Including sex eventually but that may not have been his immediate goal.

Just my take without more context.

Course I wasn’t the one interacting with him, was there more context that indicated he meant purely sexual fun?  

That said if you got a creepy feeling after he said it, you were right to next.

 

 

[Batya33]

3 hours ago, rainbowsandroses said:

Again just me but if a guy and I were vibing well and it felt natural and comfortable, my response would have been something like "can you define fun?" with a playful wink emoji or something.  Rather than assuming he meant purely sexual fun.

I can be quite bold at times and not afraid to push the envelope and ask questions.  I wasn't always this way it was a gradual process of becoming comfortable in my own skin and not becoming attached to a specific outcome.

Saying you could have 'fun' together isn't overt sexual innuendo IMO; "fun" can comprise so many different things. 

I think it was his way of letting you know he was attracted and looking forward to spending time with you.  Including sex eventually but that may not have been his immediate goal.

Just my take without more context.

Course I wasn’t the one interacting with him, was there more context that indicated he meant purely sexual fun?  

That said if you got a creepy feeling after he said it, you were right to next.

 

 

I would ask if it wasn't obvious.  Like if we'd been talking about fun activities.  I wouldn't meet any man or go on a date with any man who thought it appropriate to overshare/blab that in the future we might have sex.  First it's obvious that in most dating relationships involving two single adults there will be sex involved at some point so - if he felt he had to raise that to a woman he'd never met I'd not waste my time finding out how sex-focused he was -focused to a point that would make me feel uncomfortable or unsafe.

I wouldn't want to know that someone I'd never met was attracted to me because I'd rather know he was attracted to me when he got to know me some and to express it in a respectful and thoughtful way.  Not with sexual innuendo.  

[yogacat]

4 hours ago, rainbowsandroses said:

Again just me but if a guy and I were vibing well and it felt natural and comfortable, my response would have been something like "can you define fun?" with a playful wink emoji or something.  Rather than assuming he meant purely sexual fun.

I can be quite bold at times and not afraid to push the envelope and ask questions.  I wasn't always this way it was a gradual process of becoming comfortable in my own skin and not becoming attached to a specific outcome.

Saying you could have 'fun' together isn't overt sexual innuendo IMO; "fun" can comprise so many different things. 

I think it was his way of letting you know he was attracted and looking forward to spending time with you.  Including sex eventually but that may not have been his immediate goal.

Just my take without more context.

Course I wasn’t the one interacting with him, was there more context that indicated he meant purely sexual fun?  

That said if you got a creepy feeling after he said it, you were right to next.

I get that. But don't you find it a bit presumptuous of him to assume the definition of fun in that context.

Sure, guys understandably, they could and will make assumptions at times like their initial intent to build something from quicksand and for the hope/fantasy of being intimate.

Although, it likely could have been unintended with no malicious intent on his part.  Call it a screening mechanism on his part. To see how she received his invitation. Maybe she's not interested in going forward. Nothing lost. Maybe she will respond as "let's get to know each other better first before we make that decision."

Some people just need a little more time than others before they feel comfortable with the idea of sex. I consider sex to be a mutually created vibe, between people who both respect and prioritize it.

It's a tough sell from some people when they try and push it all from the word go! Now, do I think if I replied sexually saying "oh, we would have so much great fun" that he'll not run with it? 

But I do like the idea of (excluding overly crude comments) of saying well, funny you ask; what kind of fun? I've actually done that with a few guys after they've said something like that to me.

It does diffuse everything. It leaves space for the person to potentially "clarify" their bold statement so they can take it in to consideration- Is this how they want this to play out?

Homey don't play that. lol

[rainbowsandroses]

1 hour ago, Batya33 said:

I wouldn't want to know that someone I'd never met was attracted to me because I'd rather know he was attracted to me when he got to know me some and to express it in a respectful and thoughtful way.  Not with sexual innuendo.  

Agree, overt sexual innuendo is a No, already stated that. 

Playful flirting indicating an attraction?  Yes.  Hopefully our in-person attraction matches.

In some cases it did and we went on to have a LTR, my ex-husband included.  That was when I spent more time chatting and vetting.

Now if I find a man attractive (different from "attracted to" which is more than physical appearance) and I enjoy chatting, I will meet him within the week..  In fact, I have a second date with "finance guy" tonight.  😀

We didn't meet online, doesn't matter, it's still a numbers game.  You've posted you met and dated many men yourself and your experiences actually inspired me!  

It's a numbers game as the saying goes. The more men you meet, the greater the chance of finding the right man for you. 

Anyway to each her own.  I do enjoy flirting when attracted, it comes naturally to me.  Both online and off.

Nothing overtly sexual, just playful and fun indicating an attraction.

Re a man saying "we could have fun together" like yoga's guy did, heck I've said that!  Or similar.  And meant nothing sexual by it.

That's why I asked for more context since @yogacatwas put off by it..