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21 minutes ago, rainbowsandroses said:

Anyway to each her own.  I do enjoy flirting when attracted, it comes naturally to me.  Both online and off.

So do I and for me not with any sexual innuendo with a stranger.  Also I think it takes a lot more creativity to flirt without resorting to sexual innuendo -to me if a man chooses to use sexual innunendo with a stranger he is attracted to via an online interaction he is risking turning off a woman who might be interested in a potentially serious relationship with him so it's a very poor choice.  If the purpose of the interaction is to meet up for a date, with no real goal beyond that, or to meet up for a potential hook up or fling then obviously it's more than fine to start up with the sexting/innuendo whatever before meeting -hopefully both will enjoy that sort of thing!

But if my friend asked me what I thought and was serious minded I'd tell her to err on the side of not meeting in person -waste of time and potentially unsafe/potential for more of the same in person -lots of discomfort. 

I'm not a let it all hang out person with someone I don't know well and certainly with a stranger. I can feel attraction, enjoy flirting and be selective/have a filter because my goal is to make the stranger feel comfortable in his own skin and also know who I am and what I value and if I choose to express attraction to someone online by "going there" that's sending mixed signals. If I tolerate it and then meet that might be sending mixed signals too.  But again it's all up to what the person is looking for  and their personal standards and values.  These are mine.

Glad my past dating life can inspire you!! And I wish you the best in yours!

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16 minutes ago, Batya33 said:

So do I and for me not with any sexual innuendo with a stranger.  Also I think it takes a lot more creativity to flirt without resorting to sexual innuendo -to me if a man chooses to use sexual innunendo with a stranger he is attracted to via an online interaction he is risking turning off a woman who might be interested in a potentially serious relationship with him so it's a very poor choice.  If the purpose of the interaction is to meet up for a date, with no real goal beyond that, or to meet up for a potential hook up or fling then obviously it's more than fine to start up with the sexting/innuendo whatever before meeting -hopefully both will enjoy that sort of thing!

^^Bat I'm a bit confused why you continue to post about "sexual innuendo"? 

I think we're all pretty much in agreement that sexual innuendo is a NO before meeting in person. 

Playful flirting is not sexual innuendo imo. 

Flirting is subtle, teasing and playful banter while indicating there's an attraction versus "nothing happening."  IMO anyway.

Again hopefully our in-person attraction matches which it doesn't always. In fact lately I'm learning it rarely does!  

So perhaps that's the disconnect?

16 minutes ago, Batya33 said:

Glad my past dating life can inspire you!! And I wish you the best in yours!

Thank you!! 😊 

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Just now, rainbowsandroses said:

^^Bat I'm a bit confused why you continue to post about "sexual innuendo"? 

I think we're all pretty much in agreement that sexual innuendo is a NO before meeting in person. 

Playful flirting is not sexual innuendo imo.  

Flirting is subtle, teasing and playful banter while indicating there's an attraction versus "nothing happening."  IMO anyway.

Again hopefully our in-person attraction matches which it doesn't always. In fact lately I'm l learning it rarely does!  

So perhaps that's the disconnect?

Thank you!! 😊 

To me talking about having "fun together" is sexual innuendo in how she described it and that would not be ok with me at all if someone said that to me before meeting.  Like I wrote -unless it was in context of talking about a specific fun activity.  Or "I'm in my PJS -what are you wearing right now".  

I love flirting and was very good at it lol and loved a man who could banter, flirt all of it.  But sexual innuendo before meeting was a total dealbreaker to me.

I knew for sure that online stuff was basically irrelevant to whether there would be in person chemistry.  It worked that way for me twice in all the men I met.  Which is why I kept the online interaction brief with one safety phone call. 

 

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1 hour ago, Batya33 said:

To me talking about having "fun together" is sexual innuendo in how she described it and that would not be ok with me...

Okay thanks for clarifying fair enough. 

I'll have to go back and read the initial post because I missed the context you are referring to when saying "in how she described it..."

I do agree if there was an undertone during the conversation suggesting or implying anything sexual, it might turn me off too.

I'm gonna go back and re-read it...

 

 

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4 minutes ago, rainbowsandroses said:

Okay thanks for clarifying fair enough. 

I'll have to go back and read the initial post because I missed the context you are referring to when saying "in how she described it..."

I do agree if there was an undertone during the conversation suggesting or implying something sexual, it might turn me off too.

I'm gonna go back and re-read it...

 

 

Sure -whatever you feel like doing. I wrote in my first post that any sexual innuendo with a stranger was a dealbreaker. I wrote that if fun together referenced sex I personally would be done.  Totally fine if anyone else would be ok with it.  

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FTR -- he and I had talked for a few weeks. The entire time we spoke he never made suggestive comments like that.

Until saying "oh we'd have so much fun, if we go out" Another time, a man said it after the first date.

I don't know, I am so used to the men that I entered into a long term relationship to be like a man on a horse carrying fresh lavender or something (lol) like super gentlemen and no one ever played suggestive as if they were already in my bed. 

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5 minutes ago, yogacat said:

FTR -- he and I had talked for a few weeks. The entire time we spoke he never made suggestive comments like that.

Until saying "oh we'd have so much fun, if we go out" Another time, a man said it after the first date.

I don't know, I am so used to the men that I entered into a long term relationship to be like a man on a horse carrying fresh lavender or something (lol) like super gentlemen and no one ever played suggestive as if they were already in my bed. 

Same.  I insisted on it but with rare exception - really only one time - I didn't speak for weeks.  Wasn't consistent with my goals or my lifestyle.  

Example.  When my husband and I got back together our next date was to celebrate my birthday.  He bought me a gorgeous heart necklace- very delicate chain. I asked him to put it on for me before we went out for dinner and I was sure that was when we'd have our first real -second time around -kiss. Nope.  I asked him later why he didn't kiss me then.  He said because then it would seem like he used the putting on the necklace as an excuse to come on to me. That is totally who he is.  And I appreciate that about him. 

His parents were the same in that regard -those same values about how to treat people because to me it's not just about how you treat a woman you are interested in but how you interact with people so that your goal is the person feels comfortable around you first and foremost.  But in a hook up situation or potential hook up situation I can totally see where the people would be comfortable talking about and joking about sex and flirting with all the sexual references/sexting because obviously both people are comfortable meeting up for a night or day of sex.  

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13 hours ago, yogacat said:

I recall one particular moment when the comments made after our initial date seemed to carry a subtle air of suggestive undertones. It left me with a sense of unease, as if there was a insinuation that our next outing would be full of wild, "fun" experiences.

Yoga, I just went back and had a re-read^^ and yeah sometimes you just get a 'sense' about something or someone, doesnt even have to be overt. Just an undertone that you're picking up on.

I totally get that! 

13 hours ago, yogacat said:

But overall, the interactions aren't necessarily overly flirtatious or suggestive.

Same guy?  Because this suggests something different from what you previously posted.

13 hours ago, yogacat said:

Granted, this person has been a perfect gentlemen leading up to that point and we've talked about more in-depth topics but in retrospect, those remarks just made me feel uneasy. 

If his comments made you feel uneasy and uncomfortable then reconsider continuing to date him?

Or like I said, you could playfully ask him what he meant by "fun" (in your own words of course) and if it does imply anything sexual, simply state your boundaries that you're not comfortable "going there" just yet.

On the other hand, it may have meant nothing more than he's attracted and would enjoy spending time with you having fun!  Not necessarily sexual, just yet. 

It's hard to know. Try to not assume based on previous boyfriends' behavior.

IDK yoga, you've already met this man, you like him, found him sweet and polite, a perfect gentleman and had some great in-depth conversations.

Given that, if me, I'd probably tease him a bit about what he meant by "fun" and state your boundaries. 

But you do you, always. 

Just curious but where do things stand now? Are you still talking, is there another date scheduled? 

 

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1 hour ago, rainbowsandroses said:

Yoga, I just went back and had a re-read^^ and yeah sometimes you just get a 'sense' about something or someone, doesnt even have to be overt. Just an undertone that you're picking up on.

I totally get that! 

Same guy?  Because this suggests something different from what you previously posted.

If his comments made you feel uneasy and uncomfortable then reconsider continuing to date him?

Or like I said, you could playfully ask him what he meant by "fun" (in your own words of course) and if it does imply anything sexual, simply state your boundaries that you're not comfortable "going there" just yet.

On the other hand, it may have meant nothing more than he's attracted and would enjoy spending time with you having fun!  Not necessarily sexual, just yet. 

It's hard to know. Try to not assume based on previous boyfriends' behavior.

IDK yoga, you've already met this man, you like him, found him sweet and polite, a perfect gentleman and had some great in-depth conversations.

Given that, if me, I'd probably tease him a bit about what he meant by "fun" and state your boundaries. 

But you do you, always. 

Just curious but where do things stand now? Are you still talking, is there another date scheduled? 

 

Thanks!

I was talking about two separate instances. One was a man I haven't met yet (the most recent), the other was a man that I went on a first date with and he made the comment inferring a second date but said the comment about "fun."

I declined a second date.

The man that I haven't met yet, I haven't decided if I want to meet him. I am just dipping my feet back into the dating pool.

I was just kind of thinking out loud about the implications of the word "fun" in different contexts, specifically with dating. 

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16 hours ago, Batya33 said:

Same.  I insisted on it but with rare exception - really only one time - I didn't speak for weeks.  Wasn't consistent with my goals or my lifestyle.  

Example.  When my husband and I got back together our next date was to celebrate my birthday.  He bought me a gorgeous heart necklace- very delicate chain. I asked him to put it on for me before we went out for dinner and I was sure that was when we'd have our first real -second time around -kiss. Nope.  I asked him later why he didn't kiss me then.  He said because then it would seem like he used the putting on the necklace as an excuse to come on to me. That is totally who he is.  And I appreciate that about him. 

His parents were the same in that regard -those same values about how to treat people because to me it's not just about how you treat a woman you are interested in but how you interact with people so that your goal is the person feels comfortable around you first and foremost.  But in a hook up situation or potential hook up situation I can totally see where the people would be comfortable talking about and joking about sex and flirting with all the sexual references/sexting because obviously both people are comfortable meeting up for a night or day of sex.  

Thanks Bat.

I love that.

The story of your husband and the necklace made me smile. 

And you are also spot on that it isn't just about how to approach a woman, but people in general.

It's so nice when you know someone genuinely wants the best for you and is interested in you as a person.

Sex isn't what makes us different from other animals, and it doesn't alone dictate romance. Romance has a lot to do with respect, compassion and connection.

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On 5/25/2024 at 6:37 AM, Batya33 said:

Or it could be they lack a good filter or social skills.  Getting to know a person physically is important too.  

What I would do -if it's gray area innuendo - change the subject.  If he means well he will too.  If to you it's blatant, end the call with an excuse.  See ya.  

I met a man online who did the same thing after a while of us texting. It took about 3 weeks before we were able to meet in person because he was traveling for business a lot, so by the time we met, it was intense. We had a wonderful date and a wonderful dinner. But I remember in the beginning of our texting, he tried to talk about sex, which I was very uncomfortable with. I ended up changing the subject most of the time because it really bothered me. By the time we met, I felt like he had all of this sexual energy built up—and I didn't even participate in his innuendos either. He kissed me afterwards, and it was passionate and wonderful, but he was really a gentleman otherwise. I was worried he was going to try and make some moves, but he didn't, just a kiss. I was fine with that because I was very attracted to him, too.

Unfortunately, nothing ever came about it because our 2 hour distance would have been problematic had we tried to start a relationship, so we didn't see each other again after that.

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9 minutes ago, graphicdesigner said:

I met a man online who did the same thing after a while of us texting. It took about 3 weeks before we were able to meet in person because he was traveling for business a lot, so by the time we met, it was intense. We had a wonderful date and a wonderful dinner. But I remember in the beginning of our texting, he tried to talk about sex, which I was very uncomfortable with. I ended up changing the subject most of the time because it really bothered me. By the time we met, I felt like he had all of this sexual energy built up—and I didn't even participate in his innuendos either. He kissed me afterwards, and it was passionate and wonderful, but he was really a gentleman otherwise. I was worried he was going to try and make some moves, but he didn't, just a kiss. I was fine with that because I was very attracted to him, too.

Unfortunately, nothing ever came about it because our 2 hour distance would have been problematic had we tried to start a relationship, so we didn't see each other again after that.

Yes, I had a different approach and a different reason than you for being on dating sites.  It's so individual!  I also had no interest in texting or messaging before meeting other than a few back and forth plus a screening type phone call -even if we couldn't meet right away because of travel or schedules etc.  There were a few men I kissed on the first meet!

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11 minutes ago, Batya33 said:

Yes, I had a different approach and a different reason than you for being on dating sites.  It's so individual!  I also had no interest in texting or messaging before meeting other than a few back and forth plus a screening type phone call -even if we couldn't meet right away because of travel or schedules etc.  There were a few men I kissed on the first meet!

It's funny, because now that I look back with my FWB after we first started texting (prior to meeting in person), he was nothing but a gentleman. Sex never ever came up with us, it was just getting to know each other. It wasn't until our very first date over coffee that he told me everything about his situation. Something drew me in, so I agreed to go out on another date with him for breakfast. Afterwards, we walked around my downtown area for a bit, talked a lot, and then he walked me to my car and then he asked me if he could kiss me. I said yes of course, and we were there making out for about an hour. It was like we were teenagers all over again. It was a great feeling. It wasn't until after that that we started talking sexually, nothing like sexting or anything like that, not even phone sex. Just a plan to meet up the next time and have sex. But it was both consensual. Now I know I will never do that again. Lesson learned.

Sorry to go OT.

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3 minutes ago, graphicdesigner said:

It's funny, because now that I look back with my FWB after we first started texting (prior to meeting in person), he was nothing but a gentleman. Sex never ever came up with us, it was just getting to know each other. It wasn't until our very first date over coffee that he told me everything about his situation. Something drew me in, so I agreed to go out on another date with him for breakfast. Afterwards, we walked around my downtown area for a bit, talked a lot, and then he walked me to my car and then he asked me if he could kiss me. I said yes of course, and we were there making out for about an hour. It was like we were teenagers all over again. It was a great feeling. It wasn't until after that that we started talking sexually, nothing like sexting or anything like that, not even phone sex. Just a plan to meet up the next time and have sex. But it was both consensual. Now I know I will never do that again. Lesson learned.

Sorry to go OT.

I mean that sounds normal -you met, he told you he was married (interesting that you were ok with him lying by omission before meeting) and you made out with him so then sexting etc sounds consistent because you both knew the sex part was going to be the focus of any ongoing interaction.

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8 minutes ago, Batya33 said:

I mean that sounds normal -you met, he told you he was married (interesting that you were ok with him lying by omission before meeting) and you made out with him so then sexting etc sounds consistent because you both knew the sex part was going to be the focus of any ongoing interaction.

Actually, I wasn't OK with it initially. I was actually pissed off. When he told me everything on our first date, I remember thinking to myself that he had so much baggage, that I literally wanted to run. I commend him for being honest with me at least, but why not tell me prior to meeting me? We had some great chats via text (didn't speak on the phone until after we met), and why not just be honest at that point? Why waste the time to meet me over coffee to tell me? Thankfully, it was him that drove a distance to meet me, but still. Like I said, something drew me to him which made me agree to a second date. Now that I look back, although he really satisfied me sexually, I regret seeing him again, because then I wouldn't be in the predicament that I'm currently in. But I take full responsibility for that.

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4 minutes ago, graphicdesigner said:

Actually, I wasn't OK with it initially. I was actually pissed off. When he told me everything on our first date, I remember thinking to myself that he had so much baggage, that I literally wanted to run. I commend him for being honest with me at least, but why not tell me prior to meeting me? We had some great chats via text (didn't speak on the phone until after we met), and why not just be honest at that point? Why waste the time to meet me over coffee to tell me? Thankfully, it was him that drove a distance to meet me, but still. Like I said, something drew me to him which made me agree to a second date. Now that I look back, although he really satisfied me sexually, I regret seeing him again, because then I wouldn't be in the predicament that I'm currently in. But I take full responsibility for that.

 What commendations for honesty? He wasted your time under false pretenses pretending to be single.  Fortunately I dodged a few first meets because the man either confessed he wasn't yet divorced or that he had a green card marriage etc.  

I never met without speaking on the phone -including for safety reasons.  There were many I didn't meet based on the phone call including voice tone, manners on the phone and additional information revealed.  

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2 minutes ago, Batya33 said:

 What commendations for honesty? He wasted your time under false pretenses pretending to be single.  Fortunately I dodged a few first meets because the man either confessed he wasn't yet divorced or that he had a green card marriage etc.  

I never met without speaking on the phone -including for safety reasons.  There were many I didn't meet based on the phone call including voice tone, manners on the phone and additional information revealed.  

True. Keep in mind, this was back in February and I had only started dating in December, and even then, it was only a few dates with a few men. At the time that I met him, I had already been on a few dates with another man, so I figured I had nothing to lose in regards to meeting him. I was (and probably still am) pretty inexperienced when it comes to modern dating. The last date I had been on prior to joining these sites was when I met my husband back in 1993. No texting, no online dating, heck not even the internet was around yet, so I was pretty new to this. In retrospect, I wish I would have spoken to him on the phone beforehand, as it would have avoided so much heartache—such as now. I would have asked him these questions like was he married, single, separated, widowed, etc. beforehand, at which point, I wouldn't have agreed to meet him in person. I would have ended it right there.

Live and learn.

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1 minute ago, graphicdesigner said:

True. Keep in mind, this was back in February and I had only started dating in December, and even then, it was only a few dates with a few men. At the time that I met him, I had already been on a few dates with another man, so I figured I had nothing to lose in regards to meeting him. I was (and probably still am) pretty inexperienced when it comes to modern dating. The last date I had been on prior to joining these sites was when I met my husband back in 1993. No texting, no online dating, heck not even the internet was around yet, so I was pretty new to this. In retrospect, I wish I would have spoken to him on the phone beforehand, as it would have avoided so much heartache—such as now. I would have asked him these questions like was he married, single, separated, widowed, etc. beforehand, at which point, I wouldn't have agreed to meet him in person. I would have ended it right there.

Live and learn.

He should have told you he wasn't single. I dated from 1979-2005 so I hear you about "modern" dating.  I went on many dates as I was looking for marriage and family and working way more than full time so I was careful to screen and not waste time with liars. 

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9 minutes ago, Batya33 said:

He should have told you he wasn't single. I dated from 1979-2005 so I hear you about "modern" dating.  I went on many dates as I was looking for marriage and family and working way more than full time so I was careful to screen and not waste time with liars. 

I definitely know to do that now. As soon as I start chatting with them, if it's not posted on their profile (like it wasn't with his), I immediately ask them what their marital status is. 

Sorry to hijack this thread. That was not my intention.

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1 hour ago, graphicdesigner said:

I definitely know to do that now. As soon as I start chatting with them, if it's not posted on their profile (like it wasn't with his), I immediately ask them what their marital status is. 

Sorry to hijack this thread. That was not my intention.

I think it’s fine. You related how you were ok with sexting etc under the circumstances. And why. Then it went into related stuff. When I was on dating sites you had to list your marital status.

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On 5/25/2024 at 1:10 PM, Kwothe28 said:

I have a theory that anything that has been tried(including D pics) is because at least somebody was comfortable enough with it. People learn sometimes through trials and errors. So what worked once it may work sometimes after. If it doesnt than they change MO and try something else. So suggestion probably worked on somebody who is more inclined to bring relationship on physical levels. Its OK that you are not, every person is different regarding it.

Yeah, this is crucial here. Someone else was okay with it, so everyone else should be too. I've gone through this but from a male angle with women (mostly within online dating) sending unsolicited XXX photos and videos during the initial phases of communication and then reacting with annoyance at my lack of enthusiasm towards behaviour that I felt was inappropriate given that we barely knew each other.

I recall a woman who wanted phone sex on the first call (I'm not interested in phone sex on any call) and an argument ensued because she couldn't understand why I'd objected to her request.

Obviously, these women had overwhelmingly encountered men who were comfortable with their actions and were then thrown by my reaction.

On 5/25/2024 at 1:37 PM, Batya33 said:

Or it could be they lack a good filter or social skills.

That and also an inability to perceive their worth - and that of others beyond anything that doesn't involve sex. There have been situations where women became angry with me because I declined immediate offers of sex and they looked at me with blank expressions when I attempted to explain to them that we should spend some time getting to know each other properly before that happens.

To my dismay, often they wouldn't listen and shifted the conversation back to sex. For those types, there's nothing else in their universe, it seems.

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2 hours ago, Batya33 said:

I think it’s fine. You related how you were ok with sexting etc under the circumstances. And why. Then it went into related stuff. When I was on dating sites you had to list your marital status.

I met him on Facebook dating, so it gives you the option of not answering that particular question. But you're correct, on Match, you have to answer that question. Had I seen he had listed himself as separated, or worse, married, I would have bolted. He did admit to me on several occasions that when he's met someone and told them his situation (i.e. baggage), he said they're repulsed by it and he would never see or speak to them again. Smart women. What was I thinking?

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On 5/25/2024 at 10:20 AM, catfeeder said:

This rings true for me, too. I bolded the above because often, in order for such a level of awareness to occur, those boundaries need to be communicated. Otherwise, we'll do what's called 'magical thinking,' where we expect that what's unique to us is (or 'should' be) universally intuited by everyone, and when that's not the case, we'll be disappointed.

That's why one of the first things I try to learn about people who post here is "How clear are YOU about your own values and boundaries goals for dating, and how early and how well do you communicate this crucial information to the people you message or meet or date?"

What you characterize above sounds like your goal is to find simpatico and love. Are you seeking a relationship?

Thanks. I really resonate with this. As to your last question I am not actively seeking a relationship.

I suppose that's where the challenge lays for me because I want to date, I just don't know if I ever want to be in a long term relationship again.

Which leaves me a bit susceptible to men that may only want casual sex which I definitely don't want either.

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2 hours ago, yogacat said:

Thanks. I really resonate with this. As to your last question I am not actively seeking a relationship.

I suppose that's where the challenge lays for me because I want to date, I just don't know if I ever want to be in a long term relationship again.

Which leaves me a bit susceptible to men that may only want casual sex which I definitely don't want either.

Yes it's a bit trickier then.  For me there was no way I would have put in the time and effort I did unless I wanted marriage -it was like a part time job at times.  There were a few times in my life I wanted a vacation fling or casual dating - for the latter that was still during print personal ads so if you wrote one letter a week that was a lot.  For the former it was simply looking around the resort lol.  And in one case happening to meet my friend's husband's childhood friend -it was a perfect short summer romance.  No heartbreak when it was "over".  Perfect time for it to happen, too.  

I agree with you that if you are not sure what you want and are pretty sure you don't want an LTR you're more likely to attract men who are looking to meet a lot of different women for fun -fun can be activity partner or sexual or dating just to enjoy each other's company -doesn't have to be sex. Our friend had an ad on craigslist years ago after his divorce for someone to bike ride with -he actually was looking eventually for an LTR. He met his future wife from that ad -they were friendly first and biked together and then started dating.  That's a bit unusual though.

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3 hours ago, Batya33 said:

Yes it's a bit trickier then.  For me there was no way I would have put in the time and effort I did unless I wanted marriage -it was like a part time job at times.  There were a few times in my life I wanted a vacation fling or casual dating - for the latter that was still during print personal ads so if you wrote one letter a week that was a lot.  For the former it was simply looking around the resort lol.  And in one case happening to meet my friend's husband's childhood friend -it was a perfect short summer romance.  No heartbreak when it was "over".  Perfect time for it to happen, too.  

I agree with you that if you are not sure what you want and are pretty sure you don't want an LTR you're more likely to attract men who are looking to meet a lot of different women for fun -fun can be activity partner or sexual or dating just to enjoy each other's company -doesn't have to be sex. Our friend had an ad on craigslist years ago after his divorce for someone to bike ride with -he actually was looking eventually for an LTR. He met his future wife from that ad -they were friendly first and biked together and then started dating.  That's a bit unusual though.

Yes, it definitely is tricky when you're not entirely sure what you want.

The last couple of men that I talked to/went on initial dates with --- they brought up the type of personal questions about 10-15 minutes into the conversation about what I am looking for and questions about my vision for the future; what inspires me; what makes me happy and I could tell that they're looking more for something a bit more on the serious side.

I feel like I'm on the other side of the spectrum compared to them. I in turn say I am not 100% sure.  

Not only that, I feel like my answer would change for each of the guys, you know?  I just let them know what I was looking for in a partner in general (focus on continuous self-growth, career driven, strong emotional connection, etc.). Either way, I appreciated that they brought it up soon.  

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