I fear that no woman will truly like me and any woman I date will only be settling for me.

[Batya33]

24 minutes ago, ProfessorSunflower said:

The links include an academic study and articles from HuffPo, the NYT, and Psychogy Today.

But I had tons of academic studies telling me that at age 40 I likely wouldn't get pregnant without intervention, greater risk of birth defects, that I should let them do an amnio on me to figure that out, and that my life expectancy means I have a greater risk of dying before I'm a grandparent.  Did I heed those studies or decide to make an indivdual decision -with my partner- to start a family when we were 40? 

I had tons of studies that at age 38 most men my age would want a younger woman, would want a woman with a different physique than me, would be set in their ways if they'd never been married.  The month before I started dating my husband at that age a famous matchmaker got on the phone with me because I was upset with her company for their misleading invitations sent to me and said "good luck finding a man in [my major city]" and hung up. 

She had statistics -she's a famous matchmaker.  She was right.  My husband was visiting my city but at that point lived in a different city so I didn't meet a man from my city to marry.  Should I have gone with her say so based on statistics and thrown in the towel and "worried" as you do?  Stayed in my negative comfort zone? Generalized about silly cliches? No I had goals.  I had work to do to reach them.  So I did. And I was lucky in part and did (I know there are no guarantees especially since the studies were all against me finding a man, falling in love, having a baby).

[Wiseman2]

On 4/1/2022 at 6:04 AM, ProfessorSunflower said:

I am a 24 year-old man who has never had a GF and has only had two sexual experiences. 

Ok. Stop reading rubbish and go on dates.

[Jibralta]

1 hour ago, ProfessorSunflower said:

That's my point; the ones with non-masculine boyfriends became more attracted to masculine men whilst ovulating.

Really? Ovulation last approximately 24 hours and it happens once per month. So, you're afraid of 3%. Further (and exponentially) reduced by the fact that the study sampled only 41 women out of 3.5 billion women. And the fact that these women were all from UCLA specifically, which represents only 419 acres of 15.77 billion acres of habitable land.... and on, and on, etc.

Nah, no slippery slope fallacies or cognitive distortions here.

[Wiseman2]

Please don't become a researcher.🥼

🐅Female tigers are induced ovulators, which means the act of mating causes the female to release an egg for fertilization.

Go on a date. If she's ovulating she's not going to announce it.

 

[ProfessorSunflower]

3 hours ago, Batya33 said:

But so what?  Just because a person might be honest with himself or herself that in a perfect world he or she would prefer their partner to lose a few pounds (or gain muscle) or prefer their hairstyle to be different that doesn't mean the person is settling. Just because a person might be "more" physically attracted to a different body type doesn't mean the person is settling. 

Many people who are in love with their partners and also committed to their partners acknowledge these truths and they make the head and heart decision that they would never trade their partner for anyone even if they also feel attracted to other body types.  

I think settling is when a person is with someone else in a committed relationship despite having the dream of someone else or wanting a different, specific person like an ex -- where the person does not love or admire their partner and are with them for convenience, for wanting to be married at any cost. I know of very few couples where they didn't compromise on certain things (other than the really big stuff -like values, whether to have children, and for some, what religion to practice) - I don't get to live in a city where it's as easy to get around as in my former city I lived in for 43 years before I moved here.  It's really annoying and sometimes worse than annoying but my husband's career took us here.  But I don't feel I settled.  I wouldn't be more attracted to a person who could live in my former city. 

My husband has gained some pandemic weight.  I don't love it.  I prefer his pre-pandemic weight.  Until a few weeks ago I worked out in a small fitness room right near a 20 something guy over 6 feet tall with a very fit physique and a handsome face.  I mean it's a small room - if you do anything but look straight ahead there he is LOL.  He changes his t-shirt when he switches equipment and I focus on looking away to give him privacy.  I'm sure he looks great without his shirt on. 

Do I wish I were with him because he has no pandemic weight on him? Do I wish I could look at him with his shirt off and imagine what it would be like to be closer. Not in the least.  He is physically attractive.  He has what my husband doesn't right now - no extra weight and muscles.  I'm sure we could turn off the cameras in the fitness room and hook up because according to you I'm settling and therefore wish to stray. (I still go to the fitness room but I think this guy either moved out and/or is away). 

The idea is ludicrous.  I have no such thoughts despite not being blind and noticing there is a person who looks this way on the next treadmill for months now a few times a week.  Does that help explain stuff even though it's just my anecdote?

Yes it does, but my point isn't just about the looks. The rugby men are also attractive because of their dominant and aggressive behaviour. This is reflected in erotica aimed at women; Fifty Shades, Outlander, etc. I just don't have that personality. 

Again, every example I have ever found of a woman partnered with a guy like me involves one or both of these tropes:

 

1. She wouldn't have liked him when she was younger but now she wants stability.

 

2. She thinks he's a good partner but is bored and not turned on by him.

 

Most of them obviously don't cheat, but they fantasize about men who are not only more sexually attractive than their partners but also totally different in personality.

So is this the best I can hope for? Do I just accept that my partner won't like me as much as I like them?

[boltnrun]

23 minutes ago, ProfessorSunflower said:

So is this the best I can hope for? Do I just accept that my partner won't like me as much as I like them?

You desperately want to believe this.

So yes, you are doomed and will never find a partner who likes you as much as you like them. 

There, satisfied?

But the real reason for this is your bitterness and determination to feel sorry for yourself, not because you're not "muscular".

[Batya33]

1 hour ago, ProfessorSunflower said:

Yes it does, but my point isn't just about the looks. The rugby men are also attractive because of their dominant and aggressive behaviour. This is reflected in erotica aimed at women; Fifty Shades, Outlander, etc. I just don't have that personality. 

Again, every example I have ever found of a woman partnered with a guy like me involves one or both of these tropes:

 

1. She wouldn't have liked him when she was younger but now she wants stability.

 

2. She thinks he's a good partner but is bored and not turned on by him.

 

Most of them obviously don't cheat, but they fantasize about men who are not only more sexually attractive than their partners but also totally different in personality.

So is this the best I can hope for? Do I just accept that my partner won't like me as much as I like them?

What is a guy like you -you're focused on like you physically? The issue is you -not a guy like you - will come across as overly negative, insecure and boring with your focus on stereotypes and negative generalizations - so if a woman is turned off it won't have to do with your looks but your negative vibes/energy.  But you can change that and you've been given suggestions here as to how to do so. Up to you whether you like the suggestions/plan to act on them.

Most people fantasize.  About all sorts of things.  As I wrote above people choose how to react to fantasies.  Some pursue them, some don't.  

Do you want to marry a person or a cliche? A person or a statistic? Like I said above if I'd taken your approach and been intensely focused on studies and statistics I'd have copped out too and wouldn't be a happily married mom.

[HemispheresX1]

Here's what my therapist has me doing to try and overcome negative thoughts in regards to myself and relationships. 

Cognitive Behavioral Therapy

[mylolita]

Hey Professor!

 

I don’t know, I feel like you are getting a lot of slack here - sorry folks of ENA!

 

I get where you’re coming from! I actually do! So, if you wanted to be “universally” attractive, the main jist is that you look really healthy. We’re animals after all. So that means, normal BMI, clear skin, thick hair, white teeth, bright eyes, yes for men it’s normally tall and for women it generally means an hour glass figure. Okay, shoot me down! I think that is generally true, for most people. Celebrities are all mostly great looking, look at all the heart throbs - female and male - you will see a pattern. 
 

Christian Bale had a great physique in American Psycho but, he was an international celebrity. And have you read what he had to go through to get his body? His personal trainer published an article on it. When it comes to women throwing themselves at you, being a millionaire celebrity AND good looking will seal the deal. That’s exceptional stuff right there, that’s not your average Joe, so dear OP, I would forget Christian Bale! Marilyn Monroe was awesome lookin’ too, but I’m not going to torture myself trying to emulate gorgeous Marilyn!

 

We are average, normal people. Normal girls, they don’t expect to marry Christian Bale, and normal guys, they don’t demand Marilyn. Certain looks get a certain amount of generalised attention, it’s true, that’s a fact of life, but when it comes to being able to attract and settle down with a girl who will want you and love you and desire you, there is nothing stopping you there my friend, honestly.

 

Second generalised attractive quality is confidence. We all know someone who isn’t conventionally good looking, but somehow everyone gravitates towards them and they have no problem getting a partner? Confidence is not easily accumulated but you have to remember, it is no good fighting against yourself. Of course women drool over muscle bound guys and buy calendars of celebrities. Of course guys look at pin ups and have their own thoughts about this celebrity or that. It doesn’t matter, honestly. You can’t change how you are, and you don’t have too. You can work out and even get plastic surgery but it’s confidence within that is going to win this thing.

 

I can think of tonnes of slinky thin male pin ups. David Bowie, Brett Anderson, Freddie Mercury, Kurt Cobain. Okay they are celebrities but, they didn’t have 6 packs. They kinda owned their lankiness. They had supreme confidence.

 

I know it sounds corny but, what about, changing up your hair, inject some freshness into your wardrobe. Figure out exactly who you are right now. You are unique, no one else is like you. You have to kind of embrace yourself. Emphasise the bits you like, forget the bits you don’t. Someone out there will love you for that. You have to put yourself out there, get on dates, force yourself - it’s great confidence building and practice. 
 

I was a lap dancer from the ages of 19 to nearly 22. Okay, the clubs don’t employ big girls or girls that look a certain way, but was I a tanned blonde girl with huge boobs? Definitely not. I’m a redhead with rosy cheeks pale skin and hardly any boobs but a slim pear shape. Dita Von Tease started off as a stripper. Does she fit the tanned and blonde bill? I have a gap inbetween my two front teeth. Some would see that as a flaw. I just think well, it worked alright for Madonna, and Y’know what, no one has ever commented on my teeth, or said I was too flat chested, ever, and if they had, it wouldn’t have bothered me in the least, because I can’t be a buxom hour glass and so, why torture myself? I’m happy as I am, and so should you OP, because you are good enough! 
 

The French have a way and saying… it’s more like, don’t try and change what is there, make the most and work with what you have got. They are famed for their casual and sometimes flaw embracing natural beauty. Men can adopt that same philosophy. 
 

Kinda feeling bad for all the highly intelligent jocks right now after reading this thread 🤣 people are quick to generalise just because you are athletic and muscle bound you must be stupid and not marriage material! But anyway, peoples bodies change through their whole lives, those rugby players will turn 40 one day and probably have a middle aged spread. 
 

My husband was an amateur boxer when I met him. He had an 8 pack, let alone a 6 pack. Was it hot? Yes. Was it the reason why I was with him? Definitely not! He was 27 then and he’s just turned 40 now. Let me tell you, he has a middle aged spread, I jump his bones on the regular just the same, we’re mad for each other. Anyone worth your time won’t be just looking at the outer shell of you. 
 

It helps to love yourself, get some confidence and believe you are an amazing catch, I really think you have to know you are a great catch. If you know it, others will too. How to get to that place mentally is another matter. It takes a lot of changing that self talk you are giving yourself around.

 

I have totally drooled and fancied a guy who would probably be classed as obese by the way. And one of my main celebrity crushes was James Galdonfini in The Sopranos when he was at his biggest in weight. Y’know, confidence is real key here. We all know beauty helps but, most of us aren’t born looking like a celebrity. Please take the pressure off yourself. You are better than this! 
 

Embrace yourself, flaws, quirks, good points and bad points and all. No one is perfect and any girl you have your eyes set on isn’t perfect either. 
 

OP, I get where you are coming from. It can be hard for men. You are expected to just waltz up to women you don’t know with supreme confidence and get their numbers and all of this and face rejection like water off a ducks back. I understand this is extremely hard for most men. I feel like you need to talk to some guys in your life who aren’t those typical great looking athletic types and ask them about how they met their wives, or girlfriends. Ask your grandfather. I’m sure he wasn’t a muscle bound body builder! Ask your Dad. Ask men who have been there, done it, been through the ringer. I bet they all didn’t look like Brad Pitt, but I am sure you can find some of them who have had happy and fulfilled lasting marriages to women who loved them back just the same?

 

x

[maritalbliss86]

On 4/1/2022 at 11:28 AM, ProfessorSunflower said:

None of what I linked were brainwashing sites. I included studies and brought up content aimed at women.
I have been trying to get in shape for over a year and nothing works. I have joined clubs. As I said, I have start casually seeing a woman. The issue is that I worry they will just be settling for me. Again, all of the links I have provided include women partnered to men like me and even they still want somebody more conventionally masculine.

This is random, but if you're weightlifting and not eating enough protein you'll actually lose more weight! Just make sure you're eating enough to actually *build* muscle.

It's really hard to build muscle for some body types 😕. But it can be done, you may want to see a nutritionist if you can though.

There are lots of YouTube vids on what and how much to eat, too, and they're free!

 

[HemispheresX1]

1 minute ago, maritalbliss86 said:

This is random, but if you're weightlifting and not eating enough protein you'll actually lose more weight! Just make sure you're eating enough to actually *build* muscle.

It's really hard to build muscle for some body types 😕. But it can be done, you may want to see a nutritionist if you can though.

There are lots of YouTube vids on what and how much to eat, too, and they're free!

 

Don't encourage the guy to build muscle just to attract women. I'm not trying to be a *** but he needs to learn to be comfortable in his own skin. That's what my post was all about. Replacing negative thoughts with positive affirmations. 

[maritalbliss86]

I agree with Blue.... I think you're over complicating things and over generalizing human behavior.

I studied the female brain fairly extensively, and yes hormones and certain times of month cause women to have feelings of wanting one thing and then the opposite, but it demonstrated it had little effect on them actually going out and acting on the hormonal fluctuations.

For example, women when ovulating DO or are at more risk to be attracted to a more masculine type. But what I found through research and studies was that they preferred to be around gay men the rest of the month!

I mean you can't base all your life decisions on hormonal fluctuations that happen to help the population reproduce. People are still able to make rational decisions and do so.  Just because it's been shown they prefer to be with a gay man the rest of the month (temperament wise apparently) it doesn't mean all or *any* women would ever act on that and ditch their husbands. It just means that they are attracted to different types of men at different times of the month.

Think about it this way... A woman marries an average guy she is decently attracted to, and then has lots of sex with her long-term partner and oxytocin hormones flood her brain (the strong bonding ones that produce huge emotions of satisfaction and love etc) then her average guy would have to destroy the relationship to get her to that place of wanting to cheat. Even if he's just a regular man. 

If you find a woman you is decently attracted to you, and you have regular intense sex (!) you will start producing more testosterone naturally and that bonds her to you even more at a pheromone and hormonal level. Her attraction can or will increase if it's the right relationship. She'll even be more fertile with you if you up your testosterone ... that's been proven scientifically. Then her ovulating time of month will cause her to crave you intensely which is what you want. You don't have to look anything remotely like a celebrity to have that. A lot of it comes down to testosterone and natural personality matching with someone.

A way to decrease her attraction would be to worry too much about these things. 

It's really not a lost cause 👍 you are producing testosterone already, increasing it during a relationship (or also through weightlifting naturally) will have good benefits all around for you.

[maritalbliss86]

17 minutes ago, HemispheresX1 said:

Don't encourage the guy to build muscle just to attract women. I'm not trying to be a *** but he needs to learn to be comfortable in his own skin. That's what my post was all about. Replacing negative thoughts with positive affirmations. 

In my opinion, building more muscle is the number one thing to do for overall health and wellness. Even mentally it helps people dramatically.

And my advice was technical. If he's not eating enough protein then he'll actually get *skinnier* and lose more weight, because weightlifting burns more fat and for a much longer time than cardio. This will harm his mental health over time, because it makes him feel defeated or like it's not working. 

[ProfessorSunflower]

On 4/3/2022 at 9:11 PM, mylolita said:

Hey Professor!

 

I don’t know, I feel like you are getting a lot of slack here - sorry folks of ENA!

 

I get where you’re coming from! I actually do! So, if you wanted to be “universally” attractive, the main jist is that you look really healthy. We’re animals after all. So that means, normal BMI, clear skin, thick hair, white teeth, bright eyes, yes for men it’s normally tall and for women it generally means an hour glass figure. Okay, shoot me down! I think that is generally true, for most people. Celebrities are all mostly great looking, look at all the heart throbs - female and male - you will see a pattern. 
 

Christian Bale had a great physique in American Psycho but, he was an international celebrity. And have you read what he had to go through to get his body? His personal trainer published an article on it. When it comes to women throwing themselves at you, being a millionaire celebrity AND good looking will seal the deal. That’s exceptional stuff right there, that’s not your average Joe, so dear OP, I would forget Christian Bale! Marilyn Monroe was awesome lookin’ too, but I’m not going to torture myself trying to emulate gorgeous Marilyn!

 

We are average, normal people. Normal girls, they don’t expect to marry Christian Bale, and normal guys, they don’t demand Marilyn. Certain looks get a certain amount of generalised attention, it’s true, that’s a fact of life, but when it comes to being able to attract and settle down with a girl who will want you and love you and desire you, there is nothing stopping you there my friend, honestly.

 

Second generalised attractive quality is confidence. We all know someone who isn’t conventionally good looking, but somehow everyone gravitates towards them and they have no problem getting a partner? Confidence is not easily accumulated but you have to remember, it is no good fighting against yourself. Of course women drool over muscle bound guys and buy calendars of celebrities. Of course guys look at pin ups and have their own thoughts about this celebrity or that. It doesn’t matter, honestly. You can’t change how you are, and you don’t have too. You can work out and even get plastic surgery but it’s confidence within that is going to win this thing.

 

I can think of tonnes of slinky thin male pin ups. David Bowie, Brett Anderson, Freddie Mercury, Kurt Cobain. Okay they are celebrities but, they didn’t have 6 packs. They kinda owned their lankiness. They had supreme confidence.

 

I know it sounds corny but, what about, changing up your hair, inject some freshness into your wardrobe. Figure out exactly who you are right now. You are unique, no one else is like you. You have to kind of embrace yourself. Emphasise the bits you like, forget the bits you don’t. Someone out there will love you for that. You have to put yourself out there, get on dates, force yourself - it’s great confidence building and practice. 
 

I was a lap dancer from the ages of 19 to nearly 22. Okay, the clubs don’t employ big girls or girls that look a certain way, but was I a tanned blonde girl with huge boobs? Definitely not. I’m a redhead with rosy cheeks pale skin and hardly any boobs but a slim pear shape. Dita Von Tease started off as a stripper. Does she fit the tanned and blonde bill? I have a gap inbetween my two front teeth. Some would see that as a flaw. I just think well, it worked alright for Madonna, and Y’know what, no one has ever commented on my teeth, or said I was too flat chested, ever, and if they had, it wouldn’t have bothered me in the least, because I can’t be a buxom hour glass and so, why torture myself? I’m happy as I am, and so should you OP, because you are good enough! 
 

The French have a way and saying… it’s more like, don’t try and change what is there, make the most and work with what you have got. They are famed for their casual and sometimes flaw embracing natural beauty. Men can adopt that same philosophy. 
 

Kinda feeling bad for all the highly intelligent jocks right now after reading this thread 🤣 people are quick to generalise just because you are athletic and muscle bound you must be stupid and not marriage material! But anyway, peoples bodies change through their whole lives, those rugby players will turn 40 one day and probably have a middle aged spread. 
 

My husband was an amateur boxer when I met him. He had an 8 pack, let alone a 6 pack. Was it hot? Yes. Was it the reason why I was with him? Definitely not! He was 27 then and he’s just turned 40 now. Let me tell you, he has a middle aged spread, I jump his bones on the regular just the same, we’re mad for each other. Anyone worth your time won’t be just looking at the outer shell of you. 
 

It helps to love yourself, get some confidence and believe you are an amazing catch, I really think you have to know you are a great catch. If you know it, others will too. How to get to that place mentally is another matter. It takes a lot of changing that self talk you are giving yourself around.

 

I have totally drooled and fancied a guy who would probably be classed as obese by the way. And one of my main celebrity crushes was James Galdonfini in The Sopranos when he was at his biggest in weight. Y’know, confidence is real key here. We all know beauty helps but, most of us aren’t born looking like a celebrity. Please take the pressure off yourself. You are better than this! 
 

Embrace yourself, flaws, quirks, good points and bad points and all. No one is perfect and any girl you have your eyes set on isn’t perfect either. 
 

OP, I get where you are coming from. It can be hard for men. You are expected to just waltz up to women you don’t know with supreme confidence and get their numbers and all of this and face rejection like water off a ducks back. I understand this is extremely hard for most men. I feel like you need to talk to some guys in your life who aren’t those typical great looking athletic types and ask them about how they met their wives, or girlfriends. Ask your grandfather. I’m sure he wasn’t a muscle bound body builder! Ask your Dad. Ask men who have been there, done it, been through the ringer. I bet they all didn’t look like Brad Pitt, but I am sure you can find some of them who have had happy and fulfilled lasting marriages to women who loved them back just the same?

 

x

I apologize for taking long to reply. I have been busy with my course.
It should be noted that Bale was at the start of his career at the time, so he was not the celebrity he is today.
It seems that you are saying "Most women realize they can't get somebody as good-looking as Christian Bale, so they will settle for somebody else". I don't want to be in a relationship with somebody who is settling for me. How would you feel if your partner said he dated you because he did not expect to get somebody more attractive? It is like how most people, even if they are happy with their current car, would likely trade in whatever car they own for a more expensive one if they suddenly struck rich. I don't want to be in a relationship with somebody who sees me that way.

It is also important to stress that at least some of those women were in relationships and they were apparently willing to cheat on their partners with Bale. I cannot imagine many women would tolerate their partners gawking at Salma Hayek under similar circumstances. Furthermore, we would all understand that a bunch of men gathering around to gawk at a female star would be sexual harassment, so why is it fine for a bunch of women to do it to Bale?

Lastly, I said earlier that the reason muscular men are attractive is because women associate them with aggressive, masculine personalities. This would be confirmed by a cursory peek at erotica aimed at women. So why would a want to be in a relationship with somebody who finds me boring in both appearance and personality?

In the film Five Easy Pieces, the main character played by Jack Nicholson is able to seduce his brother Carl's fiancee. Carl is the archetypical nice guy whilst Nicholson's character is a boorish bully. Even if my potential partner does not cheat, I worry that my appeal will just be that I am the more stable alternative to the more sexy and masculine men. It's like how I eat apples in lieu of ice cream for dessert; I know apples are better for me so I choose them, but I still prefer the taste of ice cream.

[Batya33]

1 minute ago, ProfessorSunflower said:

It seems that you are saying "Most women realize they can't get somebody as good-looking as Christian Bale, so they will settle for somebody else"

That's really generalizing in such an offensive way.  Why do you assume that objective physical features are superior in some way -meaning good looking against some societal standard is what a woman wants in a potential spouse? Maybe some women and some men -for some women and some men arm candy is really important -they have a notion that others will value them more if they have a societal hottie on their arm.  I felt that way to an extent in my early 20s and was in love with a really hot looking guy for years - serious relationship -got lots of compliments on how hot he was (how ridiculous that I liked that back then).  He proposed and I declined. 

We broke up and we each married men in 2008 (yes as it turned out he was gay, fighting his conflicted feelings back then in the early 90s - and after we broke up finally accepted he was gay -yes we had a great sex life and awesome chemistry -who knew??)

I didn't marry my husband because he was good looking on some societal scale.  I dated several men who were "better looking" than him.  So? I wanted him. Not because of how he looked compared to other men or some societal standard -because of our passion, chemistry, etc.  Could there have possibly been a 'better" man in the world? Of course -I only dated half the planet by my late 30s.  And.... I didn't care who else was out there. You could have showed me a hottie who was also compassionate, caring, smart and successful, wanted a family, etc and I'd have said "oh he's cute! no thanks."  

I didn't settle. I didn't marry a hottie.  What I did in choosing my mate is very typical of most people I knew who didn't settle and were excited and sure to the extent it's possible to be sure of anything - on their wedding day and when they got engaged, etc.  I'm not unusual.  

[Wiseman2]

30 minutes ago, ProfessorSunflower said:

I have been busy with my course.

Are you a movie aficionado? If so, that might be a way to talk to and relate to women. Rather than comparing yourself to celebrities or fictional characters, you could have a lively conversation in real life with women on campus about favorite movies.

[mylolita]

2 hours ago, ProfessorSunflower said:

I apologize for taking long to reply. I have been busy with my course.
It should be noted that Bale was at the start of his career at the time, so he was not the celebrity he is today.
It seems that you are saying "Most women realize they can't get somebody as good-looking as Christian Bale, so they will settle for somebody else". I don't want to be in a relationship with somebody who is settling for me. How would you feel if your partner said he dated you because he did not expect to get somebody more attractive? It is like how most people, even if they are happy with their current car, would likely trade in whatever car they own for a more expensive one if they suddenly struck rich. I don't want to be in a relationship with somebody who sees me that way.

It is also important to stress that at least some of those women were in relationships and they were apparently willing to cheat on their partners with Bale. I cannot imagine many women would tolerate their partners gawking at Salma Hayek under similar circumstances. Furthermore, we would all understand that a bunch of men gathering around to gawk at a female star would be sexual harassment, so why is it fine for a bunch of women to do it to Bale?

Lastly, I said earlier that the reason muscular men are attractive is because women associate them with aggressive, masculine personalities. This would be confirmed by a cursory peek at erotica aimed at women. So why would a want to be in a relationship with somebody who finds me boring in both appearance and personality?

In the film Five Easy Pieces, the main character played by Jack Nicholson is able to seduce his brother Carl's fiancee. Carl is the archetypical nice guy whilst Nicholson's character is a boorish bully. Even if my potential partner does not cheat, I worry that my appeal will just be that I am the more stable alternative to the more sexy and masculine men. It's like how I eat apples in lieu of ice cream for dessert; I know apples are better for me so I choose them, but I still prefer the taste of ice cream.

Hi Professor,

 

I am sorry you feel this way. It is almost like you are defeated before you even start!

 

What makes you think it is all about looks, why a woman would covet or cheat? What happens if you do marry the stud, muscular hunk - and a few years down the line you realise that things aren’t working, that he doesn’t listen too you, that he is selfish, or can’t relate to you? And you start meeting with a male friend who you can open up with? And he appreciates you? And he cares about all the little silly things that make you who you are but that your current gorgeous hunk seems little interested in or no notice of at all? Women cheat all the time then other way round.

 

Beautiful rich and famous people also get cheated on plenty. Just look at Hollywood. Full of fraught relationships. Did it help them be happy and keep in a happy relationship because they were gorgeous? 

 

Long term relationships that will stand the test of time, till death do us part, have to be built in so much more than sex and appearance. Many muscular men loose their figures. Christian Bale doesn’t look like that right now. He did that for a movie role, he even joked that before that role he was drinking pints. And, he was shooting a movie so still not your average person. That gave him some sparkle even if he was at the start. Potential, to be a star. Maybe they saw how talented an actor he was; and charismatic. Talent and charisma is also a heady pull, very attractive. Mix it with good looks and people are almost unstoppable. 
 

Anyway, we are the average joes. Anyone you date or marry will have a daft celebrity crush. This is human nature. Would they run off with that celebrity given a chance? If you have something real and special of course not, because what you would have with your partner would be built on so so much more than surface appearance and physicality. Why are there old couples holding hands, both wrinkled and bent over, 90 years old, on a bench together? Do you think they married the most gorgeous person they could? Or do you think they married the person who was gorgeous “to them”, because to them; they are gorgeous? In a very special, and unique, and just “between them” kinda way? 
 

There are men better looking than Christian Bale. There is always someone richer, better looking, more masculine, more confident. You can’t live your life realistically comparing yourself or worrying about a prospect relationship that hasn’t even happened yet. 
 

Love is an amazing and unique and rare thing, when found. It can bind people together for life. Doesn’t matter if someone with a 6 pack walks by. Lots of people have 6 packs. Lots of women have long, slender legs. Lots of people are better looking than you, and better looking than me, and better looking than my husband. It’s the bond and the unique magic that happens when you fall in love, that stops someone thinking “I want better.” Because when you are truly in love, you know, you really do, that you already have the best for you. They are your perfect match. And with that found, then, what the heck does Christian Bale have to offer me?!? 
 

😉

I worked with an older lady once who always seemed quite wise. She once said to me, “You can’t take a happily married man.”

 

As I get older, and married for 8 years, together for 14, with 3 children - I am starting to know what she means. Same for women. People cheat because they are unhappy, unsatisfied - something is already wrong in their current relationship. Those women who threw themselves at Bale, I doubt they were happily with someone. People cheat for a reason, not because they are trying to climb the testosterone ladder until they get too, The Incredible Hulk!

 

x

[boltnrun]

Johnny Depp and Amber Heard are beautiful, wealthy and famous. And we all know what a mess their relationship turned out to be.

But you're happy with your narrative that no woman will ever truly want you. That gives you an excuse to stay home alone and never date. And that's fine. People aren't required to date or be in relationships.

[ProfessorSunflower]

3 hours ago, boltnrun said:

Johnny Depp and Amber Heard are beautiful, wealthy and famous. And we all know what a mess their relationship turned out to be.

But you're happy with your narrative that no woman will ever truly want you. That gives you an excuse to stay home alone and never date. And that's fine. People aren't required to date or be in relationships.

If I were happy about it, I wouldn't be posting here would I?

I never said that marriages between beautiful people are always happy, so I'm unsure why you bought that up. I'm saying that many women who date or marry men like me are settling because they realize more conventionally masculine men make bad partners. It's like how I may eat strawberries in lieu of ice cream for my health; I still prefer the taste of ice cream.

[bluecastle]

46 minutes ago, ProfessorSunflower said:

I'm saying that many women who date or marry men like me are settling because they realize more conventionally masculine men make bad partners.

Another way to phrase this would be: "I'm saying that I am so frightened of the possibility that someone would 'settle' for me, as opposed to sincerely want me, that I am finding a delusory sense of control by reducing men and women into stereotypes rather than take the actual risk required to connect." 

Super hot people are often insecure that people want them only because they are super hot. Super rich people because they are super rich. Super vanilla people because they are super vanilla. And so on, and so forth.

Thing about fears like these? They're just that—fears—but if we indulge them we can make them a reality. Until you see yourself as worthy it really won't matter if someone else does, because you'll break your brain trying to convince yourself she is settling for you while secretly longing for Christian Bale, so in your shoes I'd be working to dilute these fears rather than turn them into dissertations. 

 

[boltnrun]

But this mindset is a terrific way to avoid intimate love relationships.

[spinstermanquee]

On 4/1/2022 at 11:52 AM, limichelle said:

Not all woman want some muscular dude that can bench 1000 and walk and talk like a Neanderthal.

Haha limichelle!  definition of a knuckle-dragger!  women that like above also like to be clubbed over the head and dragged behind the bushes because that's the plat du jour of a knuckle-dragger... all day, every day  😉 

OP, there are women around who value your insides more than your outsides, have some compassion for us!  Get real with yourself about your good qualities - you surely have many - and amplify those, be proud of those.  Start working on where you can improve or dial down, specifically with your negative outlook (and inlook) and whatever else you find you don't like about yourself while you're in there digging around.

Good luck my dear.

[Batya33]

4 hours ago, ProfessorSunflower said:

If I were happy about it, I wouldn't be posting here would I?

I never said that marriages between beautiful people are always happy, so I'm unsure why you bought that up. I'm saying that many women who date or marry men like me are settling because they realize more conventionally masculine men make bad partners. It's like how I may eat strawberries in lieu of ice cream for my health; I still prefer the taste of ice cream.

That really makes no sense.  And even if it were true you don't need to marry "many women" - just one who is the right match for you.  What's with all the generalizing.  And no it is not true in the least.

[Tinydance]

On 4/2/2022 at 3:45 AM, ProfessorSunflower said:

Then why is all of the erotica written by and for women about the exact same thing? It never involves respectful nice men. It's almost always about aggressive or dangerous men.
All of the sex symbols popular with women are muscular bad boys, not nice men.
I have even included studies and pieces by psychologists in which women married to men like me express boredom and a lack of satisfaction. They say they would not have dated those men when they were younger so they have now matured and want somebody more stable, but they still feel sexually attracted to the same men they liked when they were younger. I have never heard about a woman partnered with a guy like me who was happy. 
On the set of American Psycho, Christian Bale was sexually harassed by all of the women who worked on set because of his physique. At least some of those women were in relationships, yet they were apparently willing to cheat.

Erotica is in the very literal sense just fantasy. It's the same as watching porn, in which most of the actors look hot and have a certain stereotypical look. Most people don't actually get to go out with people like these and I think generally people are realistic in who they can actually get. 

I understand that you haven't had much experience with women but it doesn't seem like you've actually tried to get to know women individually. Rather you've just been doing a lot of online "research" about women. I put research in inverted commas because I think all the things you found are basically just stereotypes about women. Women are not just all the same person, you can't use generalised statements like "All women like X guys". Majority of my friends are female and they're into different kinds of men, including me. 

I personally never liked overly muscly guys or macho, alpha male guys. Most guys I dated were kind of nerds, into video games, sci-fi, going to pop culture conventions, computers, things like that. I mean, sure, women might perve on a hot guy because that's just human nature. That doesn't mean though that they wouldn't date just average, realistic looking guys.

I find it funny that you said that women want a guy like Christian Grey from 50 Shades of Grey. First of all, I think that guy was a complete jerk. Secondly, basically 90% of women can't get a guy like him. He's a really attractive millionaire. I don't think that most women are so deluded as to think they could get a guy like that!

[Tinydance]

On 4/2/2022 at 9:15 PM, ProfessorSunflower said:

I never said women only dated muscular men. I even pointed out that women who dated men like me still feel more attracted to muscular men. Take a look at this study: https://www.sscnet.ucla.edu/comm/haselton/unify_uploads/files/larson pillsworth haselton 2012 plosone.pdf
Basically all of women's erotica involves a woman with a muscular guy who is my total opposite not just in appearance, but also in personality. Take Fifty Shades. In Outlander she actually cheats on her academic husband with a super large, buff caveman. 
Articles written by psychologists:
https://www.huffpost.com/entry/marriage-advice_b_5666990?guccounter=1&guce_referrer=aHR0cHM6Ly93d3cuZ29vZ2xlLmNvbS9zZWFyY2g_Y2xpZW50PW9wZXJhJnE9YXJ0aWNsZSthYm91dCt3b21lbit3aG8rbGVhdmUraHVzYmFuZHMrZm9yK2JhZCtib3lzK2FuZCt0aGVuK3JlZ3JldCtpdCZzb3VyY2VpZD1vcGVyYSZpZT1VVEYtOCZvZT1VVEYtOA&guce_referrer_sig=AQAAAEbHMANVYOHqiPzIsaPHnM-66NQ87u9exE1mlYBEVM0j_BAoM14eg0u5lku1gQeaSvrdmXtsiPKOjZylObykbb6mkGO6GzVMgE0Eht-HBpPpEBcSLoU3iiFgVp9DZ-h99lZSALsqDNzDgOFrDi8GUOuA-LlXmZl8A_f73K1UVDj-
https://www.nytimes.com/2014/02/09/magazine/does-a-more-equal-marriage-mean-less-sex.html
https://www.psychologytoday.com/us/blog/insight-therapy/201308/what-do-women-really-want

"the delicate, tentative guy who politely thinks about you and asks if this is okay or that is okay is a guy who may meet the expectations of your gender politics (treats me as an equal; is respectful of me; communicates with me) and your parents’ preferences, but he may also put you into a sexual coma—not despite these qualities, but because of them."

In every situation I have heard about in which a woman is partnered with a man like me, it is always in spite of her sexual desires i.e. "I would never have dated him when I was younger but now I want somebody more stable", and so part of her feels bored and unsatisfied.
In other words, all of the situations I know of in which a woman dates or marries a man I identify with, she still feels bored and fantasizes about men who are the opposite of me in looks and personality. Do you not understand how I feel insecure about that? The fact that some women date nerds is no more proof that they do not like muscular men than the fact that I eat strawberries is proof I would not prefer chocolate bars.

How can you base anything on 50 Shades of Grey? It's just a total fantasy novel, and on top of that it's REALLY bad. 50 Shades is as far from real life as anything can get.