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I fear that no woman will truly like me and any woman I date will only be settling for me.


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5 minutes ago, WaywardKiwi said:

Hey sunflower,

I cant help but notice you won't respond to my posts. I think arguing these grand theories and scientific speculation is largely academic, as what really counts is what is happen in your life, in your relationship. To wit, I am curious what women you have or wish to even pursue, given that you claim she is the pinnacle and ideal of human male attraction. 

T

Who did I claim she is the pinnacle of male attraction?

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1 minute ago, ProfessorSunflower said:

I never said that you didn't know anything. You're the one who insulted me. 

I think you're looking to argue so you don't have to get real about what you're really concerned about.  You're smart and you know it's all a risk, you're smart and you know it's about balancing risks individually. You just are choosing fear and hiding behind studies cause it's safer.  Will you humor me with another anecdote?  Because it's not based on some vague study. 

When my son was around 8 we were traveling and at a location which boasted the tallest slide in that city.  Outdoors -you had to climb up steep rocks to get to the top.  Really crowded too.  I knew I could not go up there with him because my balance just wasn't exactly what it should be -I was too scared. 

But he wasn't too scared. He begged me to be able to go up.  I did NOT want to do this.  Crazy! I mean think about the statistics of him getting hurt??? But as his mom, as his cheerleader, as the one who knew my love meant I had to "set him free" to explore I was freaking out inside and said yes.  He went up and down 12 times. 12.  I had to keep breathing through 12 times of this. 

He had a blast.  I had to choose his desires over mine and be super vulnerable and trust that if he stumbled maybe some nice parent who was up there, or nanny or sitter would help him. He never stumbled.  He was all smiles.  Imagine -if I'd listened to studies and said no I'm sorry I can't put aside my fears this time. 

Would I have let him ride a rollercoaster that he was too short for.  Absolutely not.  Do I let him wait for the schoolbus on his own at 13? No, not on our block.  Life is really super messy with risks.  Studies have their place.  They don't have the place you're giving them in this situation - you're hiding behind them like a security blanket when you could be climbing your own tallest slide and showing yourself what you're made of even if there's no parent cheering you on -cheer yourself on instead of sniveling under this negative blanket.

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On 4/27/2022 at 8:20 AM, greendots said:

With all respect, what's your endgame? Do you actually want guidance on how to get out of your current predicament? Or you'd rather we acquiesce to your way of thinking?

Honestly, this "I'm not the guy with a 6-pack, so no woman desires me. Here is proof." spiel is unattractive. So my suggestion: change your mindset. A positive mindset is one of the most alluring qualities a man could have!

Posters have suggested you get in shape, upgrade your wardrobe as well as hairstyle, and join some clubs / groups. Why not look into that? You are worth it. 🙂

 

 

This is an incredibly important question and I should've replied earlier. 

My endgame is to figure out if it is possible that I will meet a woman who is actually attracted to me. The men who are conventionally attractive to women are my total opposite in both appearance and personality. Whenever I express this insecurity, the reassurance I get is along the lines of "Girls find jocks and bad boys men sexy, but once they get older and want stability, they will want somebody more like you."

I'd like to think I would meet somebody who actually is attracted to me. Every example I've ever read of a woman who is partnered with a man like me involves her with internal conflicts between emotional/sexual desires and her want of stability; her wants conflict with her needs. She prefers the exciting personality of masculine bad boys yet realizes those same traits make them a bad partner. Inversely, the very traits which make the nice guy a good partner also make him unexciting. As Psychology Today put it, they put their partners in a sexual coma not in spite, but because they're good boyfriends. So am I just supposed to spend the rest of my life tightrope between being a good but not boring partner?

Every example I hear of a woman who commits infidelity involves her cheating on a man like me with a man who is my opposite. This is especially true in erotica written by and for women. I've never met a woman who expresses attraction to a man remotely like me. I've met several who express attraction to men who are my opposite.

My endgame is to find out if it's likely I'll meet women who genuinely aren't attracted to bad boys or jocks and who are organically attracted to me.

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Do you do anything without some study to validate your insecurities?

Seriously you need to experience life, not hide behind academic excuses to wallow in misery. Take a day, drop everything and go on an adventure outside your comfort zone. Hop a train or bus and go someplace new. Expose yourself to orbits women hang out and flirt with one. If you absolutely have to be clinical about it, collect data on what women respond to what topics.

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1 hour ago, ProfessorSunflower said:

This is an incredibly important question and I should've replied earlier. 

My endgame is to figure out if it is possible that I will meet a woman who is actually attracted to me. The men who are conventionally attractive to women are my total opposite in both appearance and personality. Whenever I express this insecurity, the reassurance I get is along the lines of "Girls find jocks and bad boys men sexy, but once they get older and want stability, they will want somebody more like you."

I'd like to think I would meet somebody who actually is attracted to me. Every example I've ever read of a woman who is partnered with a man like me involves her with internal conflicts between emotional/sexual desires and her want of stability; her wants conflict with her needs. She prefers the exciting personality of masculine bad boys yet realizes those same traits make them a bad partner. Inversely, the very traits which make the nice guy a good partner also make him unexciting. As Psychology Today put it, they put their partners in a sexual coma not in spite, but because they're good boyfriends. So am I just supposed to spend the rest of my life tightrope between being a good but not boring partner?

Every example I hear of a woman who commits infidelity involves her cheating on a man like me with a man who is my opposite. This is especially true in erotica written by and for women. I've never met a woman who expresses attraction to a man remotely like me. I've met several who express attraction to men who are my opposite.

My endgame is to find out if it's likely I'll meet women who genuinely aren't attracted to bad boys or jocks and who are organically attracted to me.

I was actually going to stop replying  but need to comment on this. "There are many examples of women cheating on a guy like me with "Alpha Mr. Muscles", especially in erotica." Erotica is FICTIONAL. People don't behave like real life people because that would be boring to read.

You can very easily use any novel to try to prove that a certain gender behaves a certain way. You love analysing fiction so I have one for you. In A Clockwork Orange, all the male characters rape, harrass and torture people. "Therefore, there is the conclusion that all males are rapists and sadists".

That last sentence was sarcastic, in case the inverted commas didn't give it away.

Edited by Tinydance
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I know no one agrees with Professor here but, in fair sportsmanship, there are 8 plus of us all coming at him against one of him.

 

Maybe let’s cut him some slack!

 

Men do often feel this way, especially younger men, feel totally disillusioned. Hence the, men going their own way movement amongst many. Young men, some of them, are kind of feeling lost in today’s modern society. Back in the old days, everyone had specific roles and you didn’t have to navigate what might be required of you. Now, it’s more complicated. It is hard growing up with, Instagram, insta culture, insta models - high expectations, social media. All this stuff I realise most people on here will not have had to contend with whilst going through teenage and young adulthood. 
 

Professor - I can maybe see where you are coming from with this, even if I don’t totally agree, and I get it, and empathise with your feeling of… what’s the point. So many young people go through this feeling, especially if they maybe don’t fit into that cookie cutter of what general society deems as attractive. 

 

What would make you feel better? What would change your mind? Are you open to dating women at the moment? What’s your type (if you have one!) What are you looking for in a girl?

 

Edited by mylolita
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2 hours ago, ProfessorSunflower said:

My endgame is to figure out if it is possible that I will meet a woman who is actually attracted to me. 

 

Ultimately, you are very likely going to scare them off with your cynical, rigid views on how interpersonal relationships really work.

You are still young and though very resistant to any input, my hope for you is a little something seeped through a crack, takes root and starts to grow.  Give yourself the gift of trying to be more open minded about this.  You are honestly only getting in your own way.  Hopefully time softens your views.

 

 

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Posted (edited)
25 minutes ago, Tinydance said:

I was actually going to stop replying  but need to comment on this. "There are many examples of women cheating on a guy like me with "Alpha Mr. Muscles", especially in erotica." Erotica is FICTIONAL. People don't behave like real life people because that would be boring to read.

You can very easily use any novel to try to prove that a certain gender behaves a certain way. You love analysing fiction so I have one for you. In A Clockwork Orange, all the male characters rape, harrass and torture people. "Therefore, there is the conclusion that all males are rapists and sadists".

That last sentence was sarcastic, in case the inverted commas didn't give it away.

I'm aware erotica is fictional. I never said otherwise. You are replying it something that was never said.

I'm not saying "Women cheat on men like me in erotica so I'm worried that will happen in real life." I never said anything like that.

The stories within the erotica are fictional, but their popularity isn't. It's reflective of women's sexuality.

Edited by ProfessorSunflower
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3 hours ago, ProfessorSunflower said:

My endgame is to figure out if it is possible that I will meet a woman who is actually attracted to me.

The only way to figure this out is to be out there, exploring, experimenting, and—key point here—sincerely open to this possibility.

Internet research can serve as a case study in the impossibility of this. A chorus of internet people like us can serve as a counter argument. But ultimately the power is in your hands to take some risks and have some faith and do what you need to do to cultivate your own singular brand of moxie.

3 hours ago, ProfessorSunflower said:

The men who are conventionally attractive to women are my total opposite in both appearance and personality. Whenever I express this insecurity, the reassurance I get is along the lines of "Girls find jocks and bad boys men sexy, but once they get older and want stability, they will want somebody more like you."

For whatever it's worth, I think this is reductive. People evolve, are always evolving. As they do they come further and further into themselves, their tastes (in food, in people, in life) both broadening and being more finely focused. On that journey certain qualities (stability, say, along with a sense of humor, optimistic nature, and so on) become straight up as sexy as ripped abs.

But, again, you've got to believe this to some degree. Until then, this...

1 hour ago, reinventmyself said:

Ultimately, you are very likely going to scare them off with your cynical, rigid views on how interpersonal relationships really work.

...is going to be a very real hindrance. The same would be true if you were a movie star or rugby player. 

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There are no guarantees in life. When you go on a job interview there's no guarantee you'll be offered the job. When you go to a restaurant there's no guarantee your favorite dish will be available. When you make plans to go to a concert there's no guarantee you'll have a good time or the performance will be enjoyable. When your favorite sports team plays a game there's no guarantee they'll win. I mean, what if they just said "we'll probably lose so let's just forfeit now"?

And who's to say a woman you date won't wonder if you'd rather be with a Grace Kelly or Zooey Deschanel or a Naomie Harris type (or those actresses themselves) and get herself all worked up into a negative head space worrying you might be "settling"? 

You can take the chance to find someone who truly loves you and sincerely wants to be with you or you can give up and be angry, bitter, suspicious and see "insults" everywhere you look. Your choice.

 

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6 hours ago, ProfessorSunflower said:

The studies are peer-reviewed.

That's true for that one study you posted about ovulation--it is peer reviewed. But you managed to extrapolate the miniscule sample into absurdity. Peer review doesn't justify infinite extrapolation.

Edited by Jibralta
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Some other food for thought OP, who do you want to be? Physically, morally, intellectually, etc?

I think Lo hit some something, there is a lot of pressure to conform to perceived standards; and young/younger men do feel lost in the "current Year" society. I know I did at that age, and still do at times.

The thing that managed to get me past that, is caring less and less about how society perceived me and how those who I were in my circle knew me. Which is why I have been encouraging the OP to break away from these "studies" and articles that reinforce his negative self doubts. Being content with who you are, helps a lot; you don't have to "love yourself" first; but you should understand who you are.

 

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6 hours ago, ProfessorSunflower said:

My endgame is to figure out if it is possible that I will meet a woman who is actually attracted to me.

 

6 hours ago, ProfessorSunflower said:

I'd like to think I would meet somebody who actually is attracted to me.

I understand your concerns. A few things to consider:

Movies, books, magazines and similar media are there to entertain us, but most importantly to make money. It's a business. They know that the James Bonds of the world sell, therefore they promote them. But they also know that BTS type men sell as well, thus they promote that too.

Now, Venn Diagram to the rescue: On one circle there's you. On the other are all females in your country. There's an overlapping point, meaning that there are suitable females out there for you.

Change your mindset: You are worth being with.

Edited by greendots
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