I fear that no woman will truly like me and any woman I date will only be settling for me.

[ProfessorSunflower]

I am a 24 year-old man who has never had a GF and has only had two sexual experiences. 
 

I think I am not attractive to women and that no woman will actually like me.
I have always been socially awkward and never been attractive. I was always told that "Women won't like you now but once they get older they will settle for somebody like you!" Every story I hear about a woman with a partner like me is about the tension between wanting somebody more traditionally masculine or exciting and their desire for stability.  I have never heard about a woman just dating somebody like me because of her organic attraction. That means I will be more attracted to her than vice versa, and that is terrifying. Is that the best I can hope for, that some woman just decides to learn to like me?

All erotic stories aimed at women involve dangerous, exciting, masculine men. SO not only do I fall short in terms of my looks, but also my personality. I have tried changing my appearance via weightlifting for over a year but I have seen barely any difference. As for my personality, I can't be somebody I am not. Yet according to shows like "Outlander" and books like "Fifty Shades" )both of which are very popular with women), any woman paired with somebody like me are going to fantasize about my opposite. I don't want to be with somebody who is that bored of me.

Virtually every woman I have liked has turned out to be interested in these men. Recently I was walking with two women friends. We passed by a rugby ground where a woman's game was going on. One friend quipped that if it were a men's game, she may stay and watch. When I asked, both said it was because rugby men are attractive. I have been depressed ever since. Rugby is obviously attractive 
1) The players are behemoths who are more beasts than men.
2) The game is the direct application of toxic masculinity, with steroidal men acting like violent apes giving one another constant concussions. 
If rugby were created today, no insurer would cover the injuries. By the way, this is in Ireland, which has the incredibly dangerous game Gaelic football.

Again, not only do I look nothing like these men (I am short 5'9, bespectacled, not muscular or toned, and wears jumpers/turtlenecks and blazers), my personality is nothing like theirs.
Incidentally, I have been casually going out with a woman. I am not sure if she likes me romantically but I do and think the feelings may be mutual. Ever since I heard what that other woman said yesterday, all of my insecurities returned. Should I just give on this woman I am going out with?

[Wiseman2]

31 minutes ago, ProfessorSunflower said:

. I was always told that "Women won't like you now but once they get older they will settle for somebody like you!" 

Who is telling you all this? You're full of myths.  Your narrative is loaded with incels thinking.

Date women who like you and want what you want. It's that simple.

[Kwothe28]

2 hours ago, ProfessorSunflower said:

Is that the best I can hope for, that some woman just decides to learn to like me?

Possibly, nobody can tell you that. Lots of people settle for somebody later in life. That doesnt mean they wont like you.

And I think that is where lies your confusion. You automatically assume they dont like you just because they drool about some buffed rugby players. That doesnt mean that they would be with them. There would always be somebody more attractive from you, more succesful, with more money etc. If you would weight every girl that possibly likes you with those factors, and thinking they would just settle for you, you would just remove yourself even though you maybe have a chance. 

Instead of thinking they would settle, why not say to yourself that you have a lot to offer and that some girl would like you for that. For example, girl that you are going out. She apparently see something in you that makes her go out with you. So instead of focusing how she will always leave you for some Chad, focus on yourself and that you still have something to offer. If you want girls to like you, you have to like yourself first. So work on that and self-confidence. 

[ProfessorSunflower]

1 hour ago, Wiseman2 said:

Who is telling you all this? You're full of myths.  Your narrative is loaded with incels thinking.

Date women who like you and want what you want. It's that simple.

To answer your question, studies, psychologists, and articles. I have never heard of any woman who is in a relationship with somebody like me and is not bored.

This study reported that women with less masculine partners felt tempted to cheat with masculine men.
These articles, written by psychologists, are about how women married to nice men are bored and begin to desire more conventionally masculine men.

"the delicate, tentative guy who politely thinks about you and asks if this is okay or that is okay is a guy who may meet the expectations of your gender politics (treats me as an equal; is respectful of me; communicates with me) and your parents’ preferences, but he may also put you into a sexual coma—not despite these qualities, but because of them."

Not to mention that media aimed at women reinforces this idea as well. All of women's erotica involves them getting with men who could not be more different than me, often cheating on husbands who are very much like me. Outlander is a great example.
Finally, as I mentioned, a woman I know at my university even said she'd like to stay and watch a men's rugby game because they think the players are good looking.
On the set of American Psycho, Christian Bale was sexually harassed by all of the women who worked on set because of his physique. At least some of those women were in relationships, yet they were apparently willing to cheat.

[ProfessorSunflower]

5 minutes ago, Kwothe28 said:

Possibly, nobody can tell you that. Lots of people settle for somebody later in life. That doesnt mean they wont like you.

And I think that is where lies your confusion. You automatically assume they dont like you just because they drool about some buffed rugby players. That doesnt mean that they would be with them. There would always be somebody more attractive from you, more succesful, with more money etc. If you would weight every girl that possibly likes you with those factors, and thinking they would just settle for you, you would just remove yourself even though you maybe have a chance. 

Instead of thinking they would settle, why not say to yourself that you have a lot to offer and that some girl would like you for that. For example, girl that you are going out. She apparently see something in you that makes her go out with you. So instead of focusing how she will always leave you for some Chad, focus on yourself and that you still have something to offer. If you want girls to like you, you have to like yourself first. So work on that and self-confidence. 

The point is that the rugby players are not just attractive for their looks, but also their macho and aggressive personality. I have neither.
Based on what you are saying, these women will like me only as much as I like strawberries. I prefer chocolate but I know it is bad for me so I eat strawberries instead. My taste has not changed, but I simply sacrificed my desires for my health.
So my fear is that whoever dates me is only doing so because of stability in spite of her carnal desires, and resorts to fantasizing about men who are my complete opposite in both appearance and personality. That would ultimately mean that I like her more than vice versa, which is terrifying.

[Kwothe28]

6 minutes ago, ProfessorSunflower said:

The point is that the rugby players are not just attractive for their looks, but also their macho and aggressive personality. I have neither.

And again, most men dont. And they still get pretty nice girls. If you think every single girl will go for looks and macho attitude, you wont have a very nice time dating. Sure, some would rather have that, some would something else. Yours is to be the best version of yourself and offer yourself there. That is it. Some would like you for what you have to offer. Some would preffer Chad. Yours is to find firsts and stay away from seconds. Heck you maybe found first. But you think she will run for some Chad first chance she gets. Its an attitude that will get you nowhere.

[ProfessorSunflower]

1 hour ago, Kwothe28 said:

And again, most men dont. And they still get pretty nice girls. If you think every single girl will go for looks and macho attitude, you wont have a very nice time dating. Sure, some would rather have that, some would something else. Yours is to be the best version of yourself and offer yourself there. That is it. Some would like you for what you have to offer. Some would preffer Chad. Yours is to find firsts and stay away from seconds. Heck you maybe found first. But you think she will run for some Chad first chance she gets. Its an attitude that will get you nowhere.

You are right that they don't but they likely have more in common with them than I do.
As I said earlier, I have never heard of any example of a woman partnered with a man like me who did not feel bored. To a one, they all say that they would not have dated such a man when they were younger and sometimes fantasize about more conventionally masculine men. What reason do I have to think that some woman will actually like me.

[Wiseman2]

12 minutes ago, ProfessorSunflower said:

they all say that they would not have dated such a man when they were younger and sometimes fantasize about more conventionally masculine men.

Who are "they"? Get off  brainwashing sites about 'Chads', etc.

If you are SO upset, Do something. Get in shape, get some decent clothes. Get a better haircut, get contacts/better frames. Improve your grooming, etc.

 Join some clubs and groups. Make sports and fitness a goal. Take some classes/courses. Yoga, ballroom dancing cooking, etc. Volunteer. Smile. be friendly and approachable.

Stop standing on the sidelines with your wild imagination that all these other men have all these advantages. 

You're not even trying.

[Jibralta]

2 hours ago, ProfessorSunflower said:

The point is that the rugby players are not just attractive for their looks, but also their macho and aggressive personality.

I think the real problem that you face is your habit of overgeneralizing people, whether they're women, rugby players, or even yourself. You should read up on overgeneralization and cognitive distortions. 

[limichelle]

Not all woman want some muscular dude that can bench 1000 and walk and talk like a Neanderthal. 
 

Theres plenty of woman who want a nice guy that is nice and treats them with respect. For me it’s about respect. 
 

It would be like me assuming all guys wanted is a blonde, model who knows few words of the vocabulary that loves cheer! 
 

If you change your thinking and point of view you’ll feel differently and better.

[Batya33]

Agree with Jibralta and Lilimichelle.  You'd do well to get to know women as individuals - do you have platonic female friends?

[ProfessorSunflower]

1 hour ago, Wiseman2 said:

Who are "they"? Get off  brainwashing sites about 'Chads', etc.

If you are SO upset, Do something. Get in shape, get some decent clothes. Get a better haircut, get contacts/better frames. Improve your grooming, etc.

 Join some clubs and groups. Make sports and fitness a goal. Take some classes/courses. Yoga, ballroom dancing cooking, etc. Volunteer. Smile. be friendly and approachable.

Stop standing on the sidelines with your wild imagination that all these other men have all these advantages. 

You're not even trying.

None of what I linked were brainwashing sites. I included studies and brought up content aimed at women.
I have been trying to get in shape for over a year and nothing works. I have joined clubs. As I said, I have start casually seeing a woman. The issue is that I worry they will just be settling for me. Again, all of the links I have provided include women partnered to men like me and even they still want somebody more conventionally masculine.

[ProfessorSunflower]

37 minutes ago, Jibralta said:

I think the real problem that you face is your habit of overgeneralizing people, whether they're women, rugby players, or even yourself. You should read up on overgeneralization and cognitive distortions. 

I have included studies and content produced by and for women. Am I supposed to just ignore this?

[Batya33]

15 minutes ago, ProfessorSunflower said:

None of what I linked were brainwashing sites. I included studies and brought up content aimed at women.
I have been trying to get in shape for over a year and nothing works. I have joined clubs. As I said, I have start casually seeing a woman. The issue is that I worry they will just be settling for me. Again, all of the links I have provided include women partnered to men like me and even they still want somebody more conventionally masculine.

What is conventionally masculine - you mean muscles and plays a sport?

So is feminine only someone who likes to wear dresses and uses a soft tone of voice? The issue is you're getting in your own way because your insecurity that paints all women the same "she must be settling for me" comes across as negative energy.  A turn off for both genders.  

Do not be with anyone who is settling for you and do not settle.  My husband is short, handsome,  intellectual, brilliant, successful, ambitious, compassionate, awesome sense of humor, a  person of character and integrity, bespectacled as you put it, doesn't play a sport or have muscles.  I always preferred shorter men (I am short).  I did not settle for him -the opposite. 

I did not want a man who was athletic or had big muscles even if he was also smart and kind and etc.  Because I'm not athletic (I'm very into physical fitness but not athletic) and I'm not interested in sports much at all.  

I have found men with muscular builds attractive to look at, for sure.  Just like many people find a variety of people attractive looking.  Doesn't mean I'd want to date a person who looks like that -or only date men who look like that.  

I have many friends with spouses who meet your general description  -some married in their 20s, some later (I was 42 when I married, so was my husband -we're in our mid 50s).

Yes ignore studies and focus on individuals.  If I'd focused on studies I would not have the career I went for in my 20s and I would never have tried to get pregnant at 40 years old.

Edited April 1 by Batya33

[Jibralta]

1 minute ago, ProfessorSunflower said:

I have included studies and content produced by and for women. Am I supposed to just ignore this?

Are these peer-reviewed studies published in an academic or scientific journal? Are you an expert in that specific academic or scientific field? Do you know what the sample size of their population was, how it was sampled, what distribution they used, which hypothesis test they used, and can you evaluate the pros and cons of these sampling, distribution, and hypothesis testing methods?

If the answer is "no," you're just reading random information and believing whatever you want.

[boltnrun]

You can find anything you want online. It's called confirmation bias. I can cite studies that "prove" women don't like meatheads and prefer intelligent, intellectual men who are kind, well groomed and polite.

I personally don't like meatheads. 

One of the most attractive men I've ever met was my friend's husband. He's about 5'7", thin (gangly, TBH), has longish dark hair and is very hairy (according to his wife). But his brain!!!! He's one of the most intelligent, articulate and intellectually curious men I've met. I found that incredibly sexy. I feel my friend scored the jackpot with him. Oh, and she's a lovely redhead. She does NOT believe she "settled" and does not wish she was married to some meathead.

But if you want to stay bitter and want to feel cheated you can continue to read those "studies" that prove your beliefs that you'll never find true love. I mean, if that's what fulfills you and makes you happy who are we to dissuade you?

[ProfessorSunflower]

37 minutes ago, limichelle said:

Not all woman want some muscular dude that can bench 1000 and walk and talk like a Neanderthal. 
 

Theres plenty of woman who want a nice guy that is nice and treats them with respect. For me it’s about respect. 
 

It would be like me assuming all guys wanted is a blonde, model who knows few words of the vocabulary that loves cheer! 
 

If you change your thinking and point of view you’ll feel differently and better.

Then why is all of the erotica written by and for women about the exact same thing? It never involves respectful nice men. It's almost always about aggressive or dangerous men.
All of the sex symbols popular with women are muscular bad boys, not nice men.
I have even included studies and pieces by psychologists in which women married to men like me express boredom and a lack of satisfaction. They say they would not have dated those men when they were younger so they have now matured and want somebody more stable, but they still feel sexually attracted to the same men they liked when they were younger. I have never heard about a woman partnered with a guy like me who was happy. 
On the set of American Psycho, Christian Bale was sexually harassed by all of the women who worked on set because of his physique. At least some of those women were in relationships, yet they were apparently willing to cheat.

[ProfessorSunflower]

11 minutes ago, Batya33 said:

What is conventionally masculine - you mean muscles and plays a sport?

So is feminine only someone who likes to wear dresses and uses a soft tone of voice? The issue is you're getting in your own way because your insecurity that paints all women the same "she must be settling for me" comes across as negative energy.  A turn off for both genders.  

Do not be with anyone who is settling for you and do not settle.  My husband is short, handsome,  intellectual, brilliant, successful, ambitious, compassionate, awesome sense of humor, a  person of character and integrity, bespectacled as you put it, doesn't play a sport or have muscles.  I always preferred shorter men (I am short).  I did not settle for him -the opposite. 

I did not want a man who was athletic or had big muscles even if he was also smart and kind and etc.  Because I'm not athletic (I'm very into physical fitness but not athletic) and I'm not interested in sports much at all.  

I have found men with muscular builds attractive to look at, for sure.  Just like many people find a variety of people attractive looking.  Doesn't mean I'd want to date a person who looks like that -or only date men who look like that.  

I have many friends with spouses who meet your general description  -some married in their 20s, some later (I was 42 when I married, so was my husband -we're in our mid 50s).

Yes ignore studies and focus on individuals.  If I'd focused on studies I would not have the career I went for in my 20s and I would never have tried to get pregnant at 40 years old.

Muscular men are attractive because they convey an aggressive, masculine personality which I lack. So it is not just about their looks but also the fact that they have a different personality, and anybody who likes that personality won't like mine. I stress again that I have never heard a story of a woman partnered with somebody like me who didn't feel bored and unsatisfied.
If I may ask, how old were you when you began dating your husband?

[ProfessorSunflower]

9 minutes ago, boltnrun said:

You can find anything you want online. It's called confirmation bias. I can cite studies that "prove" women don't like meatheads and prefer intelligent, intellectual men who are kind, well groomed and polite.

I personally don't like meatheads. 

One of the most attractive men I've ever met was my friend's husband. He's about 5'7", thin (gangly, TBH), has longish dark hair and is very hairy (according to his wife). But his brain!!!! He's one of the most intelligent, articulate and intellectually curious men I've met. I found that incredibly sexy. I feel my friend scored the jackpot with him. Oh, and she's a lovely redhead. She does NOT believe she "settled" and does not wish she was married to some meathead.

But if you want to stay bitter and want to feel cheated you can continue to read those "studies" that prove your beliefs that you'll never find true love. I mean, if that's what fulfills you and makes you happy who are we to dissuade you?

I wish I could find studies like that, it would make my day.
Again, I just have not seen any studies or examples in either real life or media that reflects anything else.

[bluecastle]

So, here's a perspective to entertain: 

All around the world, every day, going on thousands of years now, some people in relationships have grown bored and found themselves fantasizing about other lives, other people, sometimes erotically. Sometimes it's for a few seconds, sometimes it's sustained. Sometimes it leads to the end of relationships.

There is nothing that can be done to prevent this: no perfecting of the physique, no fattening of the bank account. People who embody the most conventionally attractive of stereotypes, while also being wonderful, kind, smart people, are often left and divorced, and often (gasp!) for people who don't embody such stereotypes. Any supermarket celebrity rag can double as a study in this as relevant as any that you're eluding to, to say nothing of just living and breathing in the world and observing human folly with a generous eye.  

In short, the same fears you have applies to the very people you feel chronically inferior to, as human beings have been proving for millennia. That, at least to me, makes everything you're spinning out about something to learn to shrug off, not search near and far in dubious corners of the internet for reasons to keep spinning. 

Where you are right now? You are digging deep into a hole where human beings, in all their glorious complexity, are being reduced to cringe-inducing cartoons. And to what end? To prove you are screwed? This attitude you are cultivating is going to hamper your shot at glittering, sustained, and saucy connections far more than whatever numbers you drew from the genetic lottery. 

"All women want only x," says a man who most women, sooner or later, will drift away from, regardless of muscular topography or surface-level virility. Similarly, a person who says "No one will ever want me because y" will generally find themselves alone and angry, even if they moonlight as a body double for Channing Tatum.

[ProfessorSunflower]

55 minutes ago, Batya33 said:

Agree with Jibralta and Lilimichelle.  You'd do well to get to know women as individuals - do you have platonic female friends?

Yes. I mentioned in the story:
Recently I was walking with two women friends. We passed by a rugby ground where a woman's game was going on. One friend quipped that if it were a men's game, she may stay and watch. When I asked, both said it was because rugby men are attractive. I have been depressed ever since.

Most female friends of mine have said similar things; they have expressed attraction for muscular men.

[SooSad33]

7 hours ago, ProfessorSunflower said:

was always told that "Women won't like you now but once they get older they will settle for somebody like you!" Every story I hear about a woman with a partner like me is about the tension between wanting somebody more traditionally masculine or exciting and their desire for stability.  I have never heard about a woman just dating somebody like me because of her organic attraction.

First of all, never listen to what 'others' have to say!

We are all different and that's good!

Yeah, a hefty, masculine man may be quite appealing- but then we have to bring in the 'fantasy vs reality'...

I've dated all kinds.. and although those masculine, built guys can 'look good', is often, that's all they've got going for them 😉 .  A 'real' relationship is built off of more than attraction.  There has to be the compatibility, trust, ability to 'build' a healthy connection and relationship.

So, don't give up so fast.

Like I said, I've dated all kinds... from tall, thin men and also more shorter & bulky guys.  They're all different in their own ways.  Sadly, their thoughts of greatness goes to their heads, and they only think they're so great! 😉 ..lol.

What matters is a man that's 'real'!  He has to show me his interest and be true to me.  Not mis treat me or mess me around.  So, you need to dig deep and realize you ARE okay.  You DO have a heart and you ARE real.... Believe that someday a real woman WILL come to see you as something genuine and be attracted to all of that! 🙂 

If you do feel a good 'connection' with this one you're presently involved with, good!  Keep going, let it progress.

 

 

 

[DancingFool]

Your problem, OP, isn't women but rather a severe case of an inferiority complex. Please get help and by that I mean professional help. 

[ProfessorSunflower]

4 minutes ago, bluecastle said:

So, here's a perspective to entertain: 

All around the world, every day, going on thousands of years now, some people in relationships have grown bored and found themselves fantasizing about other lives, other people, sometimes erotically. Sometimes it's for a few seconds, sometimes it's sustained. Sometimes it leads to the end of relationships.

There is nothing that can be done to prevent this: no perfecting of the physique, no fattening of the bank account. People who embody the most conventionally attractive of stereotypes, while also being wonderful, kind, smart people, are often left and divorced, and often (gasp!) for people who don't embody such stereotypes. Any supermarket celebrity rag can double as a study in this as relevant as any that you're eluding to, to say nothing of just living and breathing in the world and observing human folly with a generous eye.  

In short, the same fears you have applies to the very people you feel chronically inferior to, as human beings have been proving for millennia. That, at least to me, makes everything you're spinning out about something to learn to shrug off, not search near and far in dubious corners of the internet for reasons to keep spinning. 

Where you are right now? You are digging deep into a hole where human beings, in all their glorious complexity, are being reduced to cringe-inducing cartoons. And to what end? To prove you are screwed? This attitude you are cultivating is going to hamper your shot at glittering, sustained, and saucy connections far more than whatever numbers you drew from the genetic lottery. 

"All women want only x," says a man who most women, sooner or later, will drift away from, regardless of muscular topography or surface-level virility. Similarly, a person who says "No one will ever want me because y" will generally find themselves alone and angry, even if they moonlight as a body double for Channing Tatum.

I have never heard of a celebrity being left for some nerd. The study I linked to showed that women dating nerdy men are attracted to muscular and aggressive men but women dating masculine men were not attracted to nerdy men.

What am I supposed to make of this? What am I supposed to make of the fact that Christian Bale was sexually harassed on American Psycho by every woman who worked on set, at least some of whom were in relationships? How am I supposed to feel that every erotica aimed at women involves them cheating on a guy like me with somebody who is my exact opposite? Do you not understand how this makes me feel insecure?
All I am hoping for is some sign that some woman could be organically attracted to me rather than see me as the stable alternative to the sexier guys.

[ProfessorSunflower]

2 minutes ago, SooSad33 said:

First of all, never listen to what 'others' have to say!

We are all different and that's good!

Yeah, a hefty, masculine man may be quite appealing- but then we have to bring in the 'fantasy vs reality'...

I've dated all kinds.. and although those masculine, built guys can 'look good', is often, that's all they've got going for them 😉 .  A 'real' relationship is built off of more than attraction.  There has to be the compatibility, trust, ability to 'build' a healthy connection and relationship.

So, don't give up so fast.

Like I said, I've dated all kinds... from tall, thin men and also more shorter & bulky guys.  They're all different in their own ways.  Sadly, their thoughts of greatness goes to their heads, and they only think they're so great! 😉 ..lol.

What matters is a man that's 'real'!  He has to show me his interest and be true to me.  Not mis treat me or mess me around.  So, you need to dig deep and realize you ARE okay.  You DO have a heart and you ARE real.... Believe that someday a real woman WILL come to see you as something genuine and be attracted to all of that! 🙂 

If you do feel a good 'connection' with this one you're presently involved with, good!  Keep going, let it progress.

 

 

 

You have basically confirmed exactly what they said. I am just a practical alternative to what women fantasize about. So they are not attracted to me, they just realize the men they are attracted to do not make good partners. In other words, I will like them more than they like me.