My husband suggested dissolving the marriage but not ending the relationship. What to do?

[catfeeder]

In addition to possible help you can get as a citizen, does Australia have a moratorium on student loans? If so, that's where I would go.

I'd skip pursuit of divorce and put that on him. It's not in your best interests to pretzel yourself to cater to what you don't want. Let him do the leg work on that if he wants it.

I think leaving sooner rather than later will stop enabling him and allow him instead the 'gift' of missing you. Let him decide where he stands on the marriage in your absence rather than hovering around hoping he will decide in your favor.

Start a new life, and if he ever wants to be part of that again, let him prove it. If not, you'll be done with him all the sooner.

Head high, and my heart goes out to you.

[lostandhurt]

I have no idea how international child support works or if there is even a way to enforce it so it would be best to keep this as civil as possible and get your husband to agree to some sort of support.  Of course your lawyer will be able to advise you better than any of us but try and think long term and short term when negotiating the divorce with him.  What are your best options for your son?  If you cannot legally make him pay child support once you leave the country do you think he will pay and for how long?  Should you try and get a lump sum up front in the settlement instead of monthly installments?  There are a lot of things to consider so if I were you I wouldn't rush to leave the country.  Take your time, get all the legal advice you need, get a fair settlement and then book your flight.  Rushing off so you can get away from the hurt you feel is a perfectly normal reaction but this isn't something that should be rushed.

Lost

[LotusBlack]

Update: Thank you to all who responded with advice and opinions. I booked a flight for this Monday coming, the 15th, and I got in touch with a family law attorney. Unfortunately, I’m not going to be able to take this flight as international travel restrictions from the UK changed the day I booked my flight, which in itself is okay, though a lot more complicated, but the specific type of covid test I need to get to fly, the PCR test, is not available in the short time I have left before I leave and I cannot fly without it. So, I’ll have to reschedule, though I was still working on trying to arrange it when my husband came home from work.

When he came home from I let him know that the flight was booked. He was pretty shocked although he knew it was coming as I’d let him know I was going to be booking it. He was supportive but completely broke down crying. He just kept saying it was so sad and he thought we’d have more time and he was going to miss our son and I so much. We spent the rest of the night working together to try to find a testing facility with availability for my test where the results would be ready in time, to no avail. So, we’ve talked over it for the last few days to find alternatives and we have decided that we will fly back to Japan together next month after his fellowship ends and before his new contract begins. I will either stay there if I can manage to find employment so I can get my loan sorted or I will then fly on to Australia with our son. My husband will return to UK to work. Although, he has suggested that I also keep looking for and applying to jobs in the UK as well as it would be good to be near each other for our son. 

He also said that he wants to take a break rather than break up for now and that he isn’t in a rush to dissolve our marriage, particularly if it will make life in Japan for our son and I a little easier/straight forward in a legal sense.

We had spent many hours talking through the issues we had with each other and if they could or even should be overcome. So, where we are now is that we will be taking time apart and putting the divorce on the back burner while I get our son and I sorted out with where to live and getting work, etc. We’ll address that when the other logistics and issues are sorted out. He is in agreement that our son should remain with me and is willing to give me the necessary permission to take him wherever I need to go. He is also offering child support and happy to contribute to any daycare fees I might have to pay if I put him in care to work. He does want to stay in regular contact with him and also me. It is going to take time to heal from all that has happened between us and move on, but we want to co-parent well together and provide a safe space for our son, even if that is internationally. 

 

[LotusBlack]

On 3/9/2021 at 6:04 AM, catfeeder said:

In addition to possible help you can get as a citizen, does Australia have a moratorium on student loans? If so, that's where I would go.

I'd skip pursuit of divorce and put that on him. It's not in your best interests to pretzel yourself to cater to what you don't want. Let him do the leg work on that if he wants it.

I think leaving sooner rather than later will stop enabling him and allow him instead the 'gift' of missing you. Let him decide where he stands on the marriage in your absence rather than hovering around hoping he will decide in your favor.

Start a new life, and if he ever wants to be part of that again, let him prove it. If not, you'll be done with him all the sooner.

Head high, and my heart goes out to you.

Thank you, Cat, for your thoughts on the issue; I appreciate it!

[LotusBlack]

On 3/9/2021 at 6:30 AM, lostandhurt said:

I have no idea how international child support works or if there is even a way to enforce it so it would be best to keep this as civil as possible and get your husband to agree to some sort of support.  Of course your lawyer will be able to advise you better than any of us but try and think long term and short term when negotiating the divorce with him.  What are your best options for your son?  If you cannot legally make him pay child support once you leave the country do you think he will pay and for how long?  Should you try and get a lump sum up front in the settlement instead of monthly installments?  There are a lot of things to consider so if I were you I wouldn't rush to leave the country.  Take your time, get all the legal advice you need, get a fair settlement and then book your flight.  Rushing off so you can get away from the hurt you feel is a perfectly normal reaction but this isn't something that should be rushed.

Lost

Thanks, Lost. I agree with you on your advice. We’ve decided to work together and take the time needed to put things in place in the smoothest way possible for our son and for us. No matter what happens, we feel it is best to work together amicably. 

[LotusBlack]

On 3/7/2021 at 7:02 PM, boltnrun said:

Yeah, it seems he's fine "playing" with the baby but as far as everyday drudge work of feeding, diaper changes, cleaning up baby spit up, walking with the baby when he's crying or upset?  Washing baby clothes and bathing the baby?

That being said, many fathers suddenly decide they want the child(ren) when they know they can't have them around anymore.  He could decide to move to Japan and have his family take over the daily work of raising the baby.  Don't give him that chance.

Good on you for deciding to see an attorney immediately.

To be fair, although he doesn’t have the baby for long due to his work schedule, he does get up with him in the morning, change his happy, feed him breakfast, and play with him for an hour. Then in the evening when he has him for 1 hour he prepares his dinner, feeds him, brushes his teeth, and plays with him. When he was a new born he gave him his bath every night. After 6 months old and we moved house, I started bathing with the baby and now my husband gets him out of the bath so I can finish up bathing and then he dries him and get’s him ready for bed, then I take over. He also often does the laundry and we take turn washing dishes when the other cooks dinner. It’s just that I do about 22 hours a day (up all night with the baby) and it’s very tiring. 

[Wiseman2]

Very confusing indeed. So you're not going to Australia and you're not getting divorced?

So what exactly is your plan and why did you bother booking flights?

So you didn't consult an attorney, you just talked and are sort of playing it by ear?

Why claim he wants a divorce and claim he wants you to exit the UK ASAP for Australia, when neither of those things are going on or even possible right now?

 

[LotusBlack]

On 3/7/2021 at 4:57 PM, MissCanuck said:

That's good. It didn't come across that way in your first posts on this thread. 

As far as him encouraging you to take your child with you, well, I think you also need to recognize that he doesn't really want to be a father either. Sure, he might enjoy the baby when you're around to be the parent, but considering that he is fine with you moving across the world with his son?

Be prepared for him to disappear from your son's life too. I don't think he really wants any of this, the marriage or the family. Very sad story. 

He honestly feels a child should be with their mother when they are very young. He said that fathers, though important, are not the same for a baby as their mother and babies need their mothers more. I think this is part of the cultural upbringing in Japan - women are a ones who raise the family and the men support them. He loves his son, which became all the more evident when he broke down when he learned we were leaving this Monday (now no longer happening). He doesn’t want to be separated from him, but he thinks it would be worse for our son to be separated from me than from him. 

[dias]

10 minutes ago, LotusBlack said:

He honestly feels a child should be with their mother when they are very young. He said that fathers, though important, are not the same for a baby as their mother and babies need their mothers more. I think this is part of the cultural upbringing in Japan - women are a ones who raise the family and the men support them. He loves his son, which became all the more evident when he broke down when he learned we were leaving this Monday (now no longer happening). He doesn’t want to be separated from him, but he thinks it would be worse for our son to be separated from me than from him. 

Cultural differences play a role but I don't believe this is the case in your situation.

Bottom line is, he didn't want to be a father in the first place. At least he is ok with child support. Not cool though especially for the kid who didn't choose this situation. 

 

[Tinydance]

You mentioned in one of your posts that you were thinking maybe in Japan people don't directly say "I love you", but they show it with their actions. Well, your husband treats you overall badly and no offence but it sounds like he feels stuck with you and you annoy him. I'm not saying this to be nasty to you but I just read all your comments and I got this impression from everything you were actually writing.

I think your husband loves his son because it's his child, but he doesn't love you. He only married you because you were expecting his baby and you needed to stay in the UK. He may have only stayed with you because you were pregnant as well. You became pregnant after only three months, when two people are only starting to get to know each other. Often people will break up after three months because they realise they're incompatible. I see a lot of incompatibilities between you and your husband, even the fact that you're vegan and that offends him.

Love can't actually be forced so I don't really understand why you want to stay with your husband. You can stay in the UK but why do you need to be in a marriage with a man who has been clear he doesn't love you and he hasn't been affectionate or supportive towards you. Life is short and the more time you spend on the wrong person, the more time you waste.

[LotusBlack]

1 hour ago, Tinydance said:

You mentioned in one of your posts that you were thinking maybe in Japan people don't directly say "I love you", but they show it with their actions. Well, your husband treats you overall badly and no offence but it sounds like he feels stuck with you and you annoy him. I'm not saying this to be nasty to you but I just read all your comments and I got this impression from everything you were actually writing.

I think your husband loves his son because it's his child, but he doesn't love you. He only married you because you were expecting his baby and you needed to stay in the UK. He may have only stayed with you because you were pregnant as well. You became pregnant after only three months, when two people are only starting to get to know each other. Often people will break up after three months because they realise they're incompatible. I see a lot of incompatibilities between you and your husband, even the fact that you're vegan and that offends him.

Love can't actually be forced so I don't really understand why you want to stay with your husband. You can stay in the UK but why do you need to be in a marriage with a man who has been clear he doesn't love you and he hasn't been affectionate or supportive towards you. Life is short and the more time you spend on the wrong person, the more time you waste.

We aren’t staying together as a couple. I’m not expecting that his feelings for me will change. We’ll work together amicably to separate. 

[LotusBlack]

1 hour ago, dias said:

Cultural differences play a role but I don't believe this is the case in your situation.

Bottom line is, he didn't want to be a father in the first place. At least he is ok with child support. Not cool though especially for the kid who didn't choose this situation. 

 

He very much wanted to be a father. Before we ever were intimate with each other, and as we were both 32, we talked about long term goals in a relationship and what things we wanted to achieve in the next 5-10 years. Not necessarily with each other, but what we each wanted for our own lives. We talked about all the potential consequences of engaging in sex and were as safe as we could have been but did discuss if a pregnancy occurred. I was happy to not be intimate at all for a significant period of time if that’s what we both felt comfortable with in case of any consequences. We both agreed we were okay going forward with our pace. That was a mutual agreement after proactively discussing these matters.

I do believe, however, that when the reality of it occurred sooner than we ever would have thought, it was overwhelming and confronting for him, especially as he had never had experience with babies/children. His whole life from the time he was a senior high schooler up to that point had been in a lab and perhaps the reality of a life with a child, a family, was different to what he thought it would be or he realised he even wanted. I know there is a lot of talk on this thread about how annoying I must be, how I trapped him into a life he doesn’t want and didn’t want, and he just wants to get rid of me. Sure, things didn’t work out how I had once hoped they would, but it is not as though he walked into this without any idea of what was happening or that we weren’t very happy together until the point where I got pregnant. We talked responsibly before each risk we ever took and were on the same page until he realised that the family he thought he wanted wasn’t, in fact, what he wanted if it meant sacrificing anything as a scientist and the time needed for working in his field. I’m not going to just wear the responsibility of everything alone, as though I did all these wrong things to him. 

[LotusBlack]

2 hours ago, Wiseman2 said:

Very confusing indeed. So you're not going to Australia and you're not getting divorced?

So what exactly is your plan and why did you bother booking flights?

So you didn't consult an attorney, you just talked and are sort of playing it by ear?

Why claim he wants a divorce and claim he wants you to exit the UK ASAP for Australia, when neither of those things are going on or even possible right now?

 

We are getting a divorce, it’s just not the top priority as organising things with our son is the top priority, as well as logistics. We will start the process in time.

I did consult an attorney.

I’m beginning to wonder if you actually read the posts before replying. You seem pretty judgemental and don’t seem to extend much empathy. You may not realise, but organising a divorce and child custody, etc. can be pretty complicated when one lives in a country not their own and married to a person not of the same nationality, who is also not in their own country. And all this in a pandemic that changes the level of restrictions regularly. I didn’t expect that I wouldn’t be able to book my covid test prior to flying.

If you can’t offer advice in a constructive way, then please refrain from commenting.

[elsewhereagain]

Well done for getting things moving. I think it is interesting how you mentioned that while he was onboard with the idea of children, and prepared for the idea of early pregnancy, the reality was a shock. That sounds very much like what's happening here, with his suggestion of a divorce. 

I think you are both probably traumatised. Having time away from each other to reflect and come back to yourselves sounds very necessary, and I'm glad you are able to go to Japan where you previously stated you'd be more comfortable than with toxic relations in Australia. 

And don't take too much notice of any judgements on here. It's a place for people who are in pain or have their own issues, otherwise, they wouldn't be here. I guess those issues play out in all kinds of ways.

[Rose Mosse]

Yes, it's a process and I hope you both take care of yourselves and work out the details for the care of your son together. The more amicable the split the better it is as you'll have to coparent and it makes the divorce less stressful.

I second Else's comment about this being traumatic and needing time to reflect. You've been through a lot. Hopefully once your ex and you come up with details for the separation and how to support your son, you can get a separation agreement or something legal and in writing done up. Time has a way of helping people forget what their obligations are.

[lostandhurt]

11 hours ago, LotusBlack said:

We aren’t staying together as a couple. I’m not expecting that his feelings for me will change. We’ll work together amicably to separate. 

Your husband sounds confused about his feelings or possibly in denial.  From what you have written he seems rigid and very structured and his feelings for you and especially your son have caused him to face certain feelings he is not accustomed to.  He is probably scared of what he is feeling and has no idea how to handle them.

  Don't close the door on anything right now.  Stay the course you are on (which sounds much better than the first plan) and make the best of a bad situation.  You might just be surprised how a little time helps...

Lost

[LotusBlack]

16 hours ago, elsewhereagain said:

Well done for getting things moving. I think it is interesting how you mentioned that while he was onboard with the idea of children, and prepared for the idea of early pregnancy, the reality was a shock. That sounds very much like what's happening here, with his suggestion of a divorce. 

I think you are both probably traumatised. Having time away from each other to reflect and come back to yourselves sounds very necessary, and I'm glad you are able to go to Japan where you previously stated you'd be more comfortable than with toxic relations in Australia. 

And don't take too much notice of any judgements on here. It's a place for people who are in pain or have their own issues, otherwise, they wouldn't be here. I guess those issues play out in all kinds of ways.

Yes, you hit the nail on the head that we are both quite traumatised by all that we’ve been through, particularly me with the rough pregnancy and then the emergency c-section, and everything that followed. I felt so alone and overwhelmed, although I knew what was coming and what to expect in terms of childcare as I have worked in that field for my whole adult life. My husband I think was experiencing “culture” shock as he was suddenly thrown into babies and nappies, etc. rather than the structured routine of lab work and research. A baby had emotions and sometimes they just cry because they need to have a cry and all you can do is comfort them. My husband was used to seeing a problem and systematically fixing it. This baby business was opposite off all that and really required a level of empathy and intuition that he’d never had to exercise before. He was a complete fish out of water. 

Now that our son is 12 months old and a lot more communicative and they can do things together they have really bonded. He knows what to do with our son because he’s a real little boy now and can do things without having to rely on me so much. 

Things are really calm at home now, and we are working well together to sort through this mess and challenging time. We want to separate healthily.

[LotusBlack]

16 hours ago, Rose Mosse said:

Yes, it's a process and I hope you both take care of yourselves and work out the details for the care of your son together. The more amicable the split the better it is as you'll have to coparent and it makes the divorce less stressful.

I second Else's comment about this being traumatic and needing time to reflect. You've been through a lot. Hopefully once your ex and you come up with details for the separation and how to support your son, you can get a separation agreement or something legal and in writing done up. Time has a way of helping people forget what their obligations are.

Yes, this is the plan going forward.

[LotusBlack]

10 hours ago, lostandhurt said:

Your husband sounds confused about his feelings or possibly in denial.  From what you have written he seems rigid and very structured and his feelings for you and especially your son have caused him to face certain feelings he is not accustomed to.  He is probably scared of what he is feeling and has no idea how to handle them.

  Don't close the door on anything right now.  Stay the course you are on (which sounds much better than the first plan) and make the best of a bad situation.  You might just be surprised how a little time helps...

Lost

Yeah, I mean before I got pregnant he was so thoughtful; whenever I had the sniffles or feeling unwell he’d leave work early (unprompted) and go and buy me fruits with lots of vitamins and put together a care package and then unexpectedly show up on my door for a few minutes to give it to me then cycle all the way back to the hospital.

He is also a very practical person, very methodical. He is always optimistic about solving problems - everything has a solution, you just have to work at finding it. It was so surprising to me then when I had the baby and this practical, problem-solving man who had gentleness and empathy in spades disappeared. He would just freeze up. Like when I was doubled over on the floor in pain after the baby was born and my c-section wound was excruciating and reopened. He was lying in bed looking at me and he asked, “But what can I do?” then literally closed his eyes and turned over onto his other side so he couldn’t see me and went back to sleep. The same when I was in labour, he completely shut down because he had no control over the situation. He is not used to not being able to fix something, a completely foreign experience for him and he just puts his head in the sand. And when I called him out on leaving me in that situation without trying to help when I needed him most he just got so defensive and closed down even more, which only left me feeling invalidated and uncared for.

He’s very empathetic when there is something he can do. When there isn’t, he becomes this cold person who just moves on with what he’s doing on his own. All these things just led to resentment towards him and I felt so trapped in the pain and he just shut it all out and got on with his own business. 

Hopefully some time and space can help heal past hurts so that we can co-parent well. We both want our son to be the priority and well cared for, protected.

[Rose Mosse]

You are able to think clearly despite being isolated in the UK with your son. Think of how clearly you'll be able to think in a few weeks or a few months once you both have things sorted a bit. You'll be able to rethink what you want in a partner also and he can do the same as well. Wishing you lots of healing.

[LotusBlack]

6 minutes ago, Rose Mosse said:

You are able to think clearly despite being isolated in the UK with your son. Think of how clearly you'll be able to think in a few weeks or a few months once you both have things sorted a bit. You'll be able to rethink what you want in a partner also and he can do the same as well. Wishing you lots of healing.

Thank you, Rose. I really appreciate your encouragement. 

[smackie9]

What I see is a guy that, to a fault, can't handle/has anxiety from the complexities of life. A cultural thing? yes it's possible. Men are raised to work and make income while women handle all the rest. Your c-section, the other health issues, to me you were strong and handled it better than I would..all you wanted was some care/support and he shied away from that. I can see how resentment would set in, because you didn't really expect much. My guess is he wants this perfect woman that isn't affected by anything, and he can carry on with his flowery life.

You seem to be getting through this pretty good, I really don't know how you are keeping it all together. You are still doing all the leg work while he gets emotional and all snivelly. I would just snap! You have taken on every hurdle that has gotten in your way. I feel one day at a time approach will get you in a better place mentally. You go girl!

[LotusBlack]

16 minutes ago, smackie9 said:

What I see is a guy that, to a fault, can't handle/has anxiety from the complexities of life. A cultural thing? yes it's possible. Men are raised to work and make income while women handle all the rest. Your c-section, the other health issues, to me you were strong and handled it better than I would..all you wanted was some care/support and he shied away from that. I can see how resentment would set in, because you didn't really expect much. My guess is he wants this perfect woman that isn't affected by anything, and he can carry on with his flowery life.

You seem to be getting through this pretty good, I really don't know how you are keeping it all together. You are still doing all the leg work while he gets emotional and all snivelly. I would just snap! You have taken on every hurdle that has gotten in your way. I feel one day at a time approach will get you in a better place mentally. You go girl!

Thanks, smackie! I think a lot of it is cultural and very common in relationships amongst Japanese people, and a part of it is also his particular personality for sure. Thanks for your thoughts and encouragement!

[DancingFool]

22 minutes ago, LotusBlack said:

Thanks, smackie! I think a lot of it is cultural and very common in relationships amongst Japanese people, and a part of it is also his particular personality for sure. Thanks for your thoughts and encouragement!

Empathy isn't cultural. You either have it or you don't.

I don't think he is a bad person, but I do think that when he was bringing you things, he was simply doing what he knows is expected in that given situation rather mechanically. When faced with unexpected and uncharted territory, he reacted with what is natural to him. This goes hand in hand with being highly methodical. Empathy requires imagination, not method. In that respect, his brain is wired differently. He can do a to b to c really well, but if presented with the a to x to b, his brain basically reacts with "cannot compute out of order items." The way he is wired may well be a huge advantage in his studies and career, but is invariably a handicap when it comes to relationships.

My point is that your relationship with him and co-parenting will be easier if you can wrap your head around that and adjust your expectations of what he can and cannot do and how accordingly. 

[Wiseman2]

9 minutes ago, DancingFool said:

The way he is wired may well be a huge advantage in his studies and career, but is invariably a handicap when it comes to relationships.

Agree that they are incompatible. A matter of fact, get things done, get her a visa, get  married, take care of things, take care of business type of person may not be suited for someone who is highly emotional and undecided about many factors in life and may have difficultly organizing things such as flights moving, etc.

Someone methodical can get things done and getting a divorce would be a great option eventually. For now he still has to figure it all out as far as realistic logistics, not just fly off aimlessly undecided about how and where..