Confused about sudden separation

[Wiseman2]

Have you considered that it just may be a case of incompatibility?

[Whirling D]

Have you considered that it just may be a case of incompatibility?

 

I have… But I come to the realization that there is no perfect couple in the world, and everybody is going to have some things that are compatible and others that lead to friction. I was trying very hard not to be judgmental and just let things flow. Contrary to what this thread may indicate, I was doing an OK job with that, with occasional lapses at which point I would start to doubt the relationship. I would try to step back, take a breath, value the positive things that we had to offer, and then attempt to move forward…

 

So, are we incompatible? Not yet sure. I think more time would be needed.

[bluecastle]

Could it be, per your words about her work schedule, that for all the promise of this connection you need more attention than this woman can provide? I don't mean that judgmentally, at all, but you're spinning out pretty hard and fast right now and I wonder how much that has to do with it. Past the specifics of the political clash, what seems to be unnerving you is a lack of consistent attention—or, put another way, a mismatch on the attention front. Not enough to quench your natural thirst.

 

See, what I want to say to you is: there's nothing to "manage" in terms of this party, or really at this stage in any relationship. You just go with it, doing what is authentic to you, letting the answers come as they do rather than trying to corral them into little slots preemptively. That can work with planning a vacation, where you block off what you're going to do every day and where you'll eat in order to lessen the intimidation of being in a foreign setting; but it doesn't quite work in relationships or connections, since it negates the agency and feelings of the other person. Their very foreignness is the thing to celebrate, after all, at least between people who are compatible.

 

Reduce this simmering stew down to what is known: you like her, want to see her, despite being a bit jittery. Cool. She feels the same, while feeling her version of jitters. Also cool. Strain the fat, respect the facts, and make that the story right now, the story that leads you to the party. That will go how it goes, not how you're already mapping it out in your imagination, and from there you will see what happens next. If you want to ask her about Christmas or Christmas Eve, you ask her, and so forth. This isn't Churchill and Stalin at Yalta, but just two people seeing how they get along, how well they fit.

 

My gut says that you are a bit ahead of yourself at the moment, processing this more as your next wife ("generating memories" etc.) rather than a new relationship that two people are still feeling out. There are more unknowns than knowns right now, and that sentence will apply to things in another year, if it goes that far, so it's best to get cozy with the unknowns, if that makes sense. At the end of the day, I think much of compatibility can be measured by feeling secure next to all you don't understand about someone rather than all you can map out and dissect.

 

Question: Do you have anything in life that you know helps bring you a sense of stability when you're spinning around? Good to have a little arsenal for that. My brain can run a bit hot, for instance, but I know that a yoga class, an hour of surfing, or a motorcycle ride will cool it off fast. So if the mental carousel starts cranking, with the spins triggered either by work or by something between my girlfriend and I, I'll do one or all of the above, after which whatever seemed like The Most Complicated Thing On The Planet tends to seem kind of trivial, manageable, something to be curious about once more rather than afraid of.

[boltnrun]

You can't "manage" people unless it's a workplace setting. As you've found.

 

I think that's a big part of the issue. Humans don't always act or react the way you want them to. I think you struggle with that.

[RayRay63]

OP, coming into this after a few others have, I am seeing something different from most responders. I don't think this has anything to do with politics, work hours or any of that detail stuff.

 

 

We both woke up in the wee hours of the morning and I gently told her that I was feeling anxious and fearful. I explained to her that our conversations about politics, and her apparent anger and hostility in her responses, were frightening me and making me feel emotionally unsafe. She was very upset that I was calling her angry and hostile, and insisted she is not an angry and hostile person.

 

 

 

What happened here is that you transferred into needy - weak - insecure mode. It is highly unattractive, and she pulled back.

 

That is what I'm betting is the not a good fit that suddenly changed things.

 

Like Bluecastle said, it all becomes pretty simple after you let the fog clear.

 

You need to pull away now, stop contacting her for a while, and work on that. If she takes another look at you you want to be in a position to re-attract her.

[Jibralta]

You place a lot of importance on having an equal footing. It's also obvious that you dislike feeling rejected or dismissed.

 

I may have questioned how she comes up with her political leanings, and I implied that her political convictions aren't well-informed… I felt I needed to be honest. That didn’t go over well, obviously.

 

Do you realize that when you stand in judgment of another person like this, you are basically dismissing them, rejecting them, and acting like you are on higher footing than them?

 

Given that you dislike it so much, why would it surprise or upset you that she would become loud and nasty during a discussion like this?

[Billie28]

“I’m still not holding a lot of hope for this situation, but it’s really up to her. She has reached out over the last four days, although sporadically, and she’s not giving me a lot to hold my hat on, but the fact that she’s reaching out I should see is a positive sign. Who knows, maybe it’s just the friendship she is trying to preserve and that is why her correspondences are void of anything really personal. The first day she checked back in After or our ordeal, she was much more connected and sweet, as if she didn’t want to let me go. It’s been a little more hands off since.”

 

It’s not “up to her”!

It’s up to you!!!

 

She has reached out to you and you are the one pulling back! And reading into things that just are not there!

 

“After our ordeal”????

There was no ordeal , there was a passionate discussion about politics and the discussion ended. The only ordeal was that you were so pissed off she didn’t agree with you telling her she was misinformed and you poked her in the back mid sleep to tell her so!!!

 

You were not discussing science were facts are involved. Pro vax anti vax etc. You were discussing opinions only. And fail to believe that in fact it might be you that is disillusioned! But either way it’s irrelevant.

 

Of course she is a little more hands off now , She likely expected an apology that she deserved and didn’t get.

 

She is the one feeling disconnected and rightly so.

 

Stop throwing a self pity party re Christmas.

You said you were going away and in the same post said you are home alone.

Which is it???

 

Not everyone spends Christmas with others. I for one will be working.

If you haven’t plans for Christmas yet then expect to not have any or expect another to change theirs.

 

It’s just another day.

[Whirling D]

OP, coming into this after a few others have, I am seeing something different from most responders. I don't think this has anything to do with politics, work hours or any of that detail stuff.

 

 

 

 

 

 

What happened here is that you transferred into needy - weak - insecure mode. It is highly unattractive, and she pulled back.

 

That is what I'm betting is the not a good fit that suddenly changed things.

 

Like Bluecastle said, it all becomes pretty simple after you let the fog clear.

 

You need to pull away now, stop contacting her for a while, and work on that. If she takes another look at you you want to be in a position to re-attract her.

 

Thank you, Ray.

 

Yes, I did transfer into needy weak and insecure mode. I think a majority of the human race does that once in a while.

 

If I look back over the last few weeks, I believe this mode started when she was off in Las Vegas, and got offended by a silly remark I made, that was completely silly and benign, but she pretty much disappeared for a better part of a day and a half, which was a huge glaring disappearance. Then, she didn’t really want to talk about it to hear a different perspective about what I actually said. She was very dismissive. I think that made me doubt her and doubt myself with her.

 

Then, when she returned, I felt like I was on the rocks. She doesn’t seem to wanna talk much about things like that, especially when it involves her own responses to things like that. Of course, I have to get much better at letting that kind of thing roll off my shoulder, but this is still a very Young relationship, in so many ways, so there is still so much to get to know about each other.

 

I think my fear with this girl is that these disappearing acts, and her sometimes angry responses to things, will become commonplace and be more directed at me. For whatever reason in my past, that is a hugely anxiety provoking thought. I don’t want to presume that this will be the case, but there is evidence there, and I can’t ignore that.

 

As for her work schedule, I do believe that is a liability. She is often tired and stressed out, and she has so many things on her plate. My schedule is considerably more loose and flexible, and I have a fair amount of free time with nobody around, and that by itself promotes getting stuck inside one’s head, which is a good part of why I have been spinning so much over the last week.

 

Politics does play a role in it, given that there’s so much divisiveness between the perspectives, and discussing things like that often turns ugly. I think two people should be able to talk about stuff like that calmly and compare ideas. Yes, I was quite pushy, too pushy, with trying to convince her that my perspectives on thing had merit, but she wanted none of it. I guess it worked both ways, though.

[RayRay63]

OP, please critically examine the historical conduct, and work out what communications are needy/insecure, and don't repeat them. Be a strong individual who is sufficiently centered to have a solid relationship where a mere disagreement does not lead to this level of angst.

 

This is not rocket science.

[Whirling D]

OP, please critically examine the historical conduct, and work out what communications are needy/insecure, and don't repeat them. Be a strong individual who is sufficiently centered to have a solid relationship where a mere disagreement does not lead to this level of angst.

 

This is not rocket science.

 

That is a little harsh, but I understand your point.

 

Yes, I was needy and insecure. That doesn’t define who I am, and that’s been such a very small part of our relationship. If anything, she has her needs, as Well, as most people do. They just manifest themselves in different ways. I needed to talk and connect that night. She was in no place to want to do that. That’s not rocket science, either. If your partner is struggling, and is perfectly willing and capable of telling you why, it stands to reason that you would think that your partner would hear you out and want to understand and help make whatever changes might be useful. For her own reasons, she was in no space to do that. I get that, and Can easily get past it.

 

This lady is not pissed at me because I am needy and anxious, although she says she can’t deal with that right now, even though it’s such a small part of our relationship… She is hurt that I questioned her values and judgment. I have apologized for that, profusely, but we haven’t talked it out in detail. I know it is a bit of both of those things, but I think it is me questioning her decisions and her allegiance that hurts her the most.

 

Although it’s likely splitting hairs, if you debate politics, you are more than likely going to ruffle someone’s feathers about their own values. This is especially true with today’s political climate when you have such hatred being thrown back-and-forth from party to party. I think she gets sucked into that a lot more than I do, and that’s why it’s troubling to me. I don’t think that is as much being purposely judgmental, it’s just observing and reacting to someone’s behavior and how they manage a particular situation.

[boltnrun]

Like my mom used to say, do you want to be right or do you want to be happy?

 

From your argumentative posts rejecting advice and feedback you've been given, it seems like you want to be right.

[Whirling D]

Billie,

 

I don’t think it’s reasonable to say that I was pissed off with her because she did not agree with me. That’s way down the list of things that were problematic with our political discussion. You’d have to read back and look closely to what I was saying about our political discussions. This was more about what seemed to be anger and hostility. That is what bothered me. That is also what perturbed her when I brought it up.

 

That’s really what I wanted to talk about, and not so much the politics.

 

As for me being controlling, there are only so many things that one can control about their own environment. Being able to control whether you have a calm and meaningful discussion about a topic doesn’t seem out of reach for most couples. I wouldn’t call that controlling behavior to try to work towards strategies that would help in that regard.

 

Yes, she has been reaching out to me. I think there’s a little bit of the wounded animal thing happening on both sides, so I am simply trying to offer her whatever space and support she needs. I think she values that, but who knows where that will end up.

 

Many comments on here seem to imply that deep relationships are easy. They are not. People have needs. It’s hard to be around someone a lot and manage your differences, especially if they are in opposite directions, in areas like religion and politics. Those topics can be hugely emotion driven. I think this lady and I are closer to being on the same page as perhaps either of us think. I am not entirely sure, well, maybe I am, why she was so resistant to discussing the political issues calmly and thoughtfully. That’s disappointing. I think I can get over it, though. I do hope she can discuss this kind of thing in the future. I somewhat think it will be a dealbreaker if we can’t. I am willing to try to put my behavior where my mouth is and do what I can to relate and understand where she’s coming from. I thought I Did that each and every time we discuss stuff like that. I am not yet sure she was ready to do that.

[RayRay63]

I am sorry you think that's harsh.

 

Just to be certain about the message - your relationship was hit with a BOHICA.

 

Be honest about how many joints of that you supplied, learn and go forward.

[Whirling D]

Like my mom used to say, do you want to be right or do you want to be happy?

 

From your argumentative posts rejecting advice and feedback you've been given, it seems like you want to be right.

 

Not sure where that’s coming from. What advice is it that you seem to think I am rejecting?

[Whirling D]

I am sorry you think that's harsh.

 

Just to be certain about the message - your relationship was hit with a BOHICA.

 

Be honest about how many joints of that you supplied, learn and go forward.

 

No idea what that means.... BOHICA?? 😂😂

[RayRay63]

Google it buddy, it's a military acronym.

[irka000]

I hope you are getting ready for the party ! Please go !

[Whirling D]

I hope you are getting ready for the party ! Please go !

 

I am getting ready to go... thank you for the positive energy, irka!

 

I am making a nice pie to bring, and getting gifts ready… The kind of thing.

 

Things seem to be moving positively… She called me this morning! :-)

 

Of course, I could be in the friend zone at this point, but that may not be such a bad thing for the time being…. She needs me in some capacity at this point, as I do her. I am going to try to be grateful for that and enjoy the party today. What happens afterwards I’ll figure that out later. My guess is that I will be back on here moaning and groaning before too long… :-)

[bluecastle]

If your partner is struggling, and is perfectly willing and capable of telling you why, it stands to reason that you would think that your partner would hear you out and want to understand and help make whatever changes might be useful.

 

This woman is not your partner, but someone you've been dating for a few months. That's worth remembering, in general and as you head to the party.

 

In this context—dating, not partnership—going a little more quiet than usual for a day and a half is not a "disappearing act," but a human being a human. Just because you like someone, and are becoming emotionally attached to them and envisioning Big Things alongside them, does not mean they will respond to every emotional hiccup in exactly the way you want, when you want, especially after you have annoyed them.

 

It is not their job, and even if they become your partner, rings and all, it is not their job. Their job is to be themselves, same as yours. Partners are people who can accept that, with little strife, lots of grace, and boatloads of respect. Dating is a dance where all that is gauged—with one person leading here, the other there—and with strife (i.e. toes being stepped on) often a sign that partnership isn't in the cards.

 

When you can really grasp that, and genuinely live by that, something funny happens: relationships are kind of easy, if the connection is strong and the respect is sincere, bountiful.

 

I'm tempted to say more, but I'll leave it there for now. Enjoy yourself tonight.

[boltnrun]

Not sure where that’s coming from. What advice is it that you seem to think I am rejecting?

 

You've written 4 to 5 large paragraphs on many responses explaining how this or that person is wrong about the situation or how they perceive it. That is rejecting advice.

 

I can see the issue even if you don't. You continue to debate unless the person agrees with your point of view. That gets very tiring very fast.

[ThatwasThen]

Originally Posted by RayRay63

OP, please critically examine the historical conduct, and work out what communications are needy/insecure, and don't repeat them. Be a strong individual who is sufficiently centered to have a solid relationship where a mere disagreement does not lead to this level of angst.

 

This is not rocket science.

 

Originally posted by Whirling D

That is a little harsh, but I understand your point.

I will venture to say that there are not too many people out there that would consider what Ray said as being "harsh" in any way. If this is how you take a simple constructive criticism then I can understand why your girlfriend reacted the way she did and disclosed to you that she needed to re-evaluate the relationship.

 

You would do well, Whirling, to look into growing a thicker skin so that you're not so deeply affected by observations of yourself. If we never had mirrors then we would have to rely on other people to tell us what we look like so try to take a figurative mirror being held up to you with a grain of salt and a bit of self reflection.

 

I hope you have a calm evening sans any angst inducing dialogue from either of you two. Have fun and let this particular blip in your dating journey go.

[bluecastle]

I'm in agreement with bolt and TwT.

 

Context: I dig your pensive vibe, am on your side, and only post on this forum when I think I have something to say that might help someone. And yet I've found myself "pulling back" in this thread, because you can be kind of intense and exhausting, processing views that are different than your own as being "dismissed," to use a concept I suspect your girlfriend is intimately familiar with. When you deploy loaded language like that, followed by suggestions for a "calm" discussion—well, you're going to find connection a bit like threading a needle. Few things are less calm-inducing than an anxious man preaching the virtues of calm when he's lost the ability to be calm.

 

We all, us humans, think our feelings are the most important things on the planet. See the child in the playground who stubs his toe: in that moment there is no one on earth suffering more than him. He doesn't care about the tsunami in Asia, let alone what mom went through with her toolbag of a boss that afternoon at work. He cares only about his toe, and mommy kissing it to make it better.

 

As adults, of course, we face much greater pain and discomfort in the business of living and connecting, and we don't have people orbiting us who want to kiss it make it better every time. Fortunately, experience teaches us to put it in perspective so we don't place it on others or test our connections with others too much by their ability to see our pain in exactly the way we do and soothe it in ways that we cannot. That might be worth reflecting on, a bit. Whether your forever person is her or someone else, I bet she'd appreciate being able to be herself without it being read as a verdict on you.

 

I post this aware that it might ruffle some feathers, but do know it's put into the cyber ether only in hopes of helping you out. You're two good people, by the sounds of it, fumbling about on the planet and in the business of getting to know each other. Let that be the story that spins fastest in your head and you may find the spins subside.

[Wiseman2]

Why would you date someone then rip them apart? Are you recovering from a divorce/broken relationship? This level of aggression needs to be worked out with a therapist rather than reeling someone in then trying to verbally rip them a new one. What is the point of that? What's up with all the anger and arguing?

 

With all due respect who are you to decide what someone else's ideas are worth? If you want to randomly sleep with women fine, but why launch into this type of rudeness and meanness with a stranger?

 

She is hurt that I questioned her values and judgment.

you are more than likely going to ruffle someone’s feathers about their own values.

[Whirling D]

Hi all, it’s been a while since I have been on here to respond.

 

All in all, that is good news. Contrary to what some might believe on here, my mind doesn’t always real in the way that I may have been conveying. 🙂🙃

 

Most of you said very valuable things to me on here, and offered many ideas and suggestions that I did not discount or discard, even though some of you suggested that I was ignoring advice. I thought about everything that was said, in some way or another.

 

Ultimately, I enjoy and appreciate debating different perspectives on things. I don’t see that as disrespect, and in some ways, it was this willingness and interest in sharing thoughts that got me into this whole mess in the first place. I guess my original point was that I just wanted it to be civil and interactive with this lady, rather than dismissive.

 

So, if you are wondering, I went to the party with my daughter, and it was awkward at first, actually it was awkward for a good bunch of it, but I tried hard to keep out of my own way and out of my own head, and just have fun… and in the end, it warmed up quite nicely and she asked both of us to spend the night. It was a very nice night.

 

It was a bit strange that she had turned around the way that she did, but I tried hard not to step on my own toes and rock the boat. I just tried hard to let her be who she is and not try to make her feel that it was a big deal what had happened between us over the past week. We talked very briefly about it, and she was very sensitive to what I was trying to say, which wasn’t really all that much. She seemed to try to be letting it go the best she could, as well. I didn’t ask her what was going on in her head either previously or currently, at all. I let it lie. Maybe would have been proud of me… :-)

 

Knowing that you guys know that I think a lot about things, it’s hard for me to not want to talk more with her about what happened to us last week, because I think that helps resolve unsettled feelings. I can’t say with any certainty Whether her feelings are unsettled right now, but mine are a little bit unsettled. I do credit being on here with helping me try to be OK with just letting it be. It goes against my better nature to do that, and I think it often goes against a lot of psych protocol and suggestion. I do think people should talk things out when things get difficult. I think not talking to her about this more may increase the likelihood that either one of us will get caught in the same kind of trap again.

 

I am supposed to see her today and spend Christmas Eve, and a short time Christmas morning before she goes to work. My interest and plan will be to try to keep somewhat active whenever possible, and engage in activities, so neither one of us will be likely to allow our heads to spin and get back into similar trappings. I think that’s a very wise way of going about things for every couple, And it has worked well in the past for her and for me and many other occasions. That was a good idea, whoever suggested it on here previously. I try to do that whenever possible.

 

I have valued the interactions that I have had on here, even the ones that were unfavorable and, as I see it, a bit harsh. I thank you for whatever time and effort you have given to my baby ripple in the pool (hopefully)... I know I will be back on here someday, and I suspect you believe me when I tell you that… :-)

 

Have a merry Christmas and happy New Year, everybody!

[RayRay63]

Happy Xms Whirling.

 

May your train stay on the tracks, and your dreams come true.... sustainably and long term.