is it acceptable thoughts please

[RyanFox1219]

Life isn't an episode of Friends. Shuffling romantic partners among good friends and everyone being happy and ok with it at the end of the day just plain doesn't happen.

 

Rose I know what you're saying. There is no point in holding on to pointless anger, especially at the expense of others' happiness. But I also agree with everyone else - the friend had to know she was risking the friendship by dating this guy, and was ok with that. That does not equal a true friend if you ask me. And you don't have to keep anyone you don't want to in your life.

[Rose Mosse]

I'm not sure anyone really pounced on anyone else and that language suggests that there was something demonic about her friend or hapless about her ex which I'm puzzled about as I didn't get that feeling. I'd also question whether anyone disrespected anyone at all. Perhaps we're reading too much into it.

 

Topics often stir up our worst fears especially when we're dealing with ideas rather than specific scenarios or details provided by the OP. I understand what you're saying. I'm afraid I just can't be moved to call either of them bad people. I love my female friends like sisters and would never come between them and their happiness so let's agree to disagree perhaps. Of course I love my husband also, more than any words can express. How would I ever stand between either of them if I care about these people? None of that makes sense to me. Just seems very strange and incredibly dark. I agree if no one likes the new couple, simply stay away. That's anyone's prerogative and I suggested that already previously.

[Cherylyn]

It's the timing that is bad. 2 weeks post break up and boom! Your friend is already dating your ex. Then this friend expects to be pals, buddy buddy with you. Nope. No m'am.

[LikeWater]

I'm not sure anyone really pounced on anyone else and that language suggests that there was something demonic about her friend or hapless about her ex which I'm puzzled about as I didn't get that feeling. I'd also question whether anyone disrespected anyone at all. Perhaps we're reading too much into it.

 

Topics often stir up our worst fears especially when we're dealing with ideas rather than specific scenarios or details provided by the OP. I understand what you're saying. I'm afraid I just can't be moved to call either of them bad people. I love my female friends like sisters and would never come between them and their happiness so let's agree to disagree perhaps. Of course I love my husband also, more than any words can express. How would I ever stand between either of them if I care about these people? None of that makes sense to me. Just seems very strange and incredibly dark. I agree if no one likes the new couple, simply stay away. That's anyone's prerogative and I suggested that already previously.

 

Your stance on letting the chips fall where they may while keeping your focus on you is admirable. I think in a perfect world we'd all be that way. But I don't find it realistic at all and it honestly just reads robotic to me. You make it sound like being dumped while simultaneously losing a friend and you would just skip along your marry way. I don't buy it, and spouting hypotheticals is one thing until such a situation happens to you. It's evident from this thread that most people simply don't work that way, and they aren't wrong or beneath your view view of handling such a circumstance

 

As I said, I don't buy what you're selling in the first place. I believe that if the reality of such a thing were to slap you in the face your reaction to that would be quite different than this enlightened front you're giving off here.

 

But that's just me and maybe I'm wrong. Perhaps you truly are just that unemotional.

[Batya33]

I don't think it's appropriate at all. I remember I had a friend who asked me a year or so after a guy I was dating ended things with me to set her up with him - and she knew how into him I'd been - and I was aghast that she'd want me to contact him to set her up (he was nearly married at the time and I told her this). In another example I had a friend who thought nothing of trying to set up my ex with her friends and inviting him to small group "game nights" without asking me (she was my friend first -she met him through me, no she wasn't romantically interested in him). It's all "fair" but come on - give it some thought. It's not about "evil" nor does it need to be -it's about loyalty.

[katrina1980]

 

Live and let live, I think. We cannot possess each other and holding grudges is a dark path. Life is too precious to live that way.

 

Rose, your post(s) suggests you're quite evolved and not dictated by your emotions, which is to be admired for sure!

 

I tend to agree with you but for me, it's the "stabbing in back" part that I could not accept.

 

What my friend actually did to achieve what she wanted --> my boyfriend.

 

Did she intentionally sabotage my relationship w him, and/or undermine me in an attempt to achieve this goal?

 

The OP referred to it as "back stabbing."

 

she knew we were having problems before resolved stabbed me in back gave him attention on line

 

Also knowing I am hurting from the break-up, instead of helping me work those those emotions as a true friend would, she chooses to go behind my back and starts dating him? Within two weeks after our break up?

 

No, this is not a friend imo.

 

Of course, once "dust" has settled, I'm well over it, and enough time has passed, if they met up, realized there was a mutual attraction and wanted to date, that would be different, and I'd be happy for them.

 

But not when emotions are still so raw like this, I'd never do that to a good friend... No way.

[Cope]

I'd just talk to my friend if i valued her. I'm pretty sure none of my now friends would do that to me,but you never know what the future holds, so since I do value my now friends, I'd talk to her. She maybe really in love. The way she handled it is horrible, but I would want to know why and work it out

[ThatwasThen]

Your stance on letting the chips fall where they may while keeping your focus on you is admirable. I think in a perfect world we'd all be that way. But I don't find it realistic at all and it honestly just reads robotic to me.

Or sociopathic, being unable to empathize with how being "stabbed in the back" like that can affect (most) people, perhaps? Most people would be shredded or at the very least, majorly p'd off at the friend which means a loss of a boyfriend and a friend. Not too many people let that just roll off their back like water off a duck which has been suggested the op do.

[katrina1980]

Or sociopathic, being unable to empathize with how being "stabbed in the back" like that can affect (most) people, perhaps? Most people would be shredded or at the very least, majorly p'd off at the friend which means a loss of a boyfriend and a friend. Not too many people let that just roll off their back like water off a duck which has been suggested the op do.

 

Agree, not necessary about the "sociopathic" part but certainly lack of empathy - the ability to put yourself in their "shoes" - and/or lack of emotional honesty within yourself.

 

Of course we should respect all opinions, which I do, or try to, but simply find that attitude to be unrealistic and disingenuous and not very helpful to the OP.

 

JMO.

[ThatwasThen]

Sociopathic IS being unable to empathize.

 

A sociopath is a term used to describe someone who has antisocial personality disorder (ASPD). People with ASPD can't understand others' feelings. They'll often break rules or make impulsive decisions without feeling guilty for the harm they cause.

[katrina1980]

Sociopathic IS being unable to empathize.

 

I agree, but my understanding of sociopathic is a general lack of empathy in all situations, this was just one. It's a part of their general nature and overall character and all-encompassing.

 

The poster who posted that, is otherwise quite empathetic in her posts on other threads, from what I have read. I've actually learned quite a lot from some of them.

 

I could be wrong, just my take and understanding of it.

[ThatwasThen]

I agree, but my understanding of sociopathic is a general lack of empathy in all situations, this was just one. It's a part of their general nature and overall character and all-encompassing.

 

The poster who posted that, is otherwise quite empathetic in her posts on other threads, from what I have read. I've actually learned quite a lot from some of them.

 

I could be wrong, just my take and understanding of it.

 

Oh, I'm not suggesting anyone here is generally sociopathic, just that the thoughts on this particular situation appear to be robotic or sociopathic. As was said by many... the majority here (and in general I think) do not think that anyone who was not robotic or sociopathic would have those views on the matter nor would they just be able to let it roll off their back and get on with life as if nothing horrible happened to them.

 

Not saying the poster has personal experience in taken someone's ex boyfriend so close to a breakup but I think that any person who did do that would have the view that they should just get on with life without another care about it.

 

That view however has generated a lot of attention, perhaps that was the entire purpose of it??? She did say "just debating out loud here."

[Cherylyn]

she knew we were having problems before resolved stabbed me in back gave him attention on line

 

That right there is a real deal breaker. It's time for your friend to take a long walk on a short pier.

[Rose Mosse]

I just want to clarify a few things:

LikeWater, I completely respect that you have your thoughts. What you think of me is besides the matter and doesn't really add any other unique or insightful points to the discussion. If you feel disturbed by the situation mentioned by the OP, I understand where you are coming from. Whether or not I'm emotional or not, I think the difference is in how we retaliate and react to certain situations especially with those we love.

 

Katrina, I agree with you that that wouldn't sit well with anyone. I think there's some peace-making in the picture though and you touched on that. This means being willing to make peace in the end that this man wasn't a good person for the OP. He was never really hapless or insipid or entrapped. He willingly moved on from the OP and that's in itself a choice that he made. He is permitted to make that choice. Sorry, OP, this just wasn't the right man for you. I've encouraged the OP consistently to move on and not hold any grudges.

 

Since the OP has moved on and so have others except for a handful, I'd prefer to leave the topic as it is as it's clear the ones who are agreeing with me are sending likes in private and the ones who dissent are doing so in the thread. There seems to be a 50/50 split. Thank you all for your insight.

[katrina1980]

Thank you for returning and clarifying Rose. As I said earlier, you seem quite evolved, not dictated by emotions, which I always find admirable in a person. I strive for that myself!

 

I guess for me, what it boils down to is I prefer to be treated by my friends, the way I myself treat my friends.

 

If I found myself in a situation like this, no matter how attracted I was to this man (OP's now ex), no matter how intoxicating the chemistry between us, I would never act on that attraction/chemistry until such time I knew my friend was 100% over it and completely moved on.

 

And I would help her work through those painful emotions, and hope she would do same for me, if roles were reversed.

 

I am not saying this to win any awards, it's just my own personal moral compass, we all have our own, and we act accordingly.

 

There is really no right or wrong as far as I can tell, just what works for each of us w/r/t our friendships, relationships, life in general.

[Rose Mosse]

Pardon - one more thing to clarify: I have plenty of emotions. I think that's why my reaction seems unusual- those emotions are flowing in another direction. Admittedly I have never been in this particular position but I am married and I know that I love my husband a lot. There's tremendous emotion there. I just could not possibly find it in me to hold him back with any bad feeling regardless of who that other woman is. I'm sincerely 100% genuine and don't like the psychological bend in the discussion there or label of sociopath (couldn't be further from the truth and is a distortion of the discussion). It's love that causes that and I'm puzzled I think by the responses at first because most of you are in relationships or married too. I completely respect that though because I think if we all were sitting around a fireplace and chatting, we'd probably agree on a lot of things. We're just discussing different aspects and it's difficult with text as all you put out there is all that's available for another person to interpret in a one-dimensional aspect.

 

In regards to the friend (female friend in question here), I think of my female friends and I don't have any female friend I wouldn't wish utmost joy and happiness to either. When I say I think of them like a sister, I mean this - perhaps closer than even blood relatives. This might come as a surprise but there is emotion there and a lot of love and respect for my friends. If this is the decision they've made, I'd actually trust that decision and know in my heart that this is the way things would have to happen in order for there to be greater happiness. Most of all, if my husband were to walk off with a non-friend (the back-stabbing type), let's call her, that's on him... Not her because she's automatically negligible in my life (not a friend! agree!). The real matter is with my partner. That's why (emotionally) it appears that I've reacted to this situation a bit differently from some of you.

 

Sorry for any confusion.

[katrina1980]

I did not mean to imply you lack emotion Rose, only that you are not dictated by your emotions, there's a difference.

 

Just what I sense from reading all your posts, not just on this thread, it's an admirable quality imo. :)

 

And to clarify, I would never wish to hold my friend back from happiness either, or my ex.

 

Even if there were deception/back-stabbing involved (as in OP's case). I find harboring such bitterness and resentment unproductive and detrimental -- to me.

 

Doesn't mean I have to remain friends with her though, Wrong or right, I simply can't be friends with someone I am unable to trust.

 

I would wish her well, and him, and move on.

[Rose Mosse]

Thanks, Katrina!! And yes, I completely agree about not being friends with anyone untrustworthy.

[maew]

Pardon - one more thing to clarify: I have plenty of emotions. I think that's why my reaction seems unusual- those emotions are flowing in another direction. Admittedly I have never been in this particular position but I am married and I know that I love my husband a lot. There's tremendous emotion there. I just could not possibly find it in me to hold him back with any bad feeling regardless of who that other woman is. I'm sincerely 100% genuine and don't like the psychological bend in the discussion there or label of sociopath (couldn't be further from the truth and is a distortion of the discussion). It's love that causes that and I'm puzzled I think by the responses at first because most of you are in relationships or married too. I completely respect that though because I think if we all were sitting around a fireplace and chatting, we'd probably agree on a lot of things. We're just discussing different aspects and it's difficult with text as all you put out there is all that's available for another person to interpret in a one-dimensional aspect.

 

In regards to the friend (female friend in question here), I think of my female friends and I don't have any female friend I wouldn't wish utmost joy and happiness to either. When I say I think of them like a sister, I mean this - perhaps closer than even blood relatives. This might come as a surprise but there is emotion there and a lot of love and respect for my friends. If this is the decision they've made, I'd actually trust that decision and know in my heart that this is the way things would have to happen in order for there to be greater happiness. Most of all, if my husband were to walk off with a non-friend (the back-stabbing type), let's call her, that's on him... Not her because she's automatically negligible in my life (not a friend! agree!). The real matter is with my partner. That's why (emotionally) it appears that I've reacted to this situation a bit differently from some of you.

 

Sorry for any confusion.

 

Beautiful and idealistic point of view. Of course wouldn’t it be wonderful if everyone had perfectly healthy views around attachment and relationships and could let go with love and accept whatever happens?

 

Sadly this isn’t reality... nor does it need to be. Processing hurt, anger, of having to let go of someone we were deeply connected to before we were ready, just makes us that much stronger in the end.

[Rose Mosse]

Beautiful and idealistic point of view. Of course wouldn’t it be wonderful if everyone had perfectly healthy views around attachment and relationships and could let go with love and accept whatever happens?

 

Sadly this isn’t reality... nor does it need to be. Processing hurt, anger, of having to let go of someone we were deeply connected to before we were ready, just makes us that much stronger in the end.

 

Again, one-dimensional discourse just creates polarity between different ideas and perspectives and blocks open discussion. Our view versus your view. What is "reality" versus what is "idealistic". I see us reiterating the same things and I'm marveling at it because it's wonderful. I agree with your statement about going through a process in order to be strong but not everyone goes through the same processes and certainly not everyone on the forum has already gone through the same experiences or challenges in life. I'm agreeing with you also just as I agreed with Katrina (these are all points on the same sentiments). There is nothing new there and nothing that I'm disagreeing with. I don't believe the polarity is necessary: "reality" versus "idealistic", "useful" versus "not useful", "human" versus "robotic", "normal" versus "sociopathic", "emotionless" versus "overdramatic" (a word I myself used specifically in relation to the term "girl code" and am revising/rethinking again). Like I said, it's difficult to understand each other via text and I think we all just want to believe whatever we want to believe and that's perfectly fine as long as we respect each others' views.

[katrina1980]

Rose, I had to think about your last post for a bit, and forgive me if I misunderstood, but if I am to interpret it correctly, what you’re saying (to which I agree if true) is that what might be the correct approach for one may not be the correct approach for another, hence the “idealistic” versus “reality” comparison?

 

That we each create our own “reality” what works for us as individuals. How we choose to respond or react to a certain situation is our own reality.

 

The polarity comes into play when folks start interjecting that their way is the correct way (in this case vilifying the friend), deeming it “reality” and a person who feels differently who would be happy for their friend is “idealistic” or somehow “sociopathic.” Although I believe the poster who posted the latter (sociopathic) clarified that is not what she meant to suggest at all.

 

And that these polarities between our ideas are not productive and block open discussion?

 

If this is what the gist of your post was, I just learned something quite valuable, so thank you. :)

[Rose Mosse]

Yes, that's mainly what I'm saying and it's why I also caught myself creating and contributing to that polarizing effect. The comments about sociopathic or robotic was thinly veiled rhetoric and specifically aimed towards one poster (me) as it described my post without quoting me specifically which was rather pointed and unnecessary. It even went so far as to hint that my thoughts are meant to garner attention which was uncalled for - if we have a point let's just make it towards the situation (OP's post) and not direct such negative comments towards each other. I'm simply sharing my thoughts.

 

I appreciate your comments, Katrina. Thank you for your time!

[Batya33]

To me, with shades of gray of course, it's always been a "thing" -and a thing that made sense to me - that you don't try to date your friend's exes without checking with them first -and actually not checking at all if it's obvious they are not over the person or would be really hurt if you did so. Another anecdote -my friend was over the moon about this guy. He ended things abruptly after 6 months. I never met him but knew his name and it was unusual. About 5 months later I contacted a guy on a dating site. We chatted on the phone and I realized from what he said that it likely was him (it was the last name that was less typical -first name clued me in though). So I asked him if he'd dated my friend. He said he had and I said I'm sorry but I don't think we should meet. He said "you're a really good friend". I never told her we had any contact.

 

(And yes I would have met him despite the fact that he ended things -he didn't seem like a bad guy -my issue was I knew how into him she'd been and she wasn't yet dating anyone, likely wasn't quite over him - ironically, a few years later I found out that a friend of mine had set her up with my ex without telling me and they'd gone on one date -my ex didn't like her and my ex is now my husband so it all worked out -I thought it was odd that this friend set them up -this friend met the woman through me so even more strange).

[LC8328]

Fascinating discussion all the way around.

 

Here's my perspective. I was in a long-term relationship for over 5 years. We finally broke up - we had a lot of problems - and his friend came to see me soon thereafter. I was really, really attracted to him but had to turn him down & then literally pushed him out of my bedroom. Let's be honest - I was dying inside. But mainly I am glad that I did it, even if my ex was a jerk. He loved that man like a brother. I did not want their friendship to be destroyed or even strained. I am just one person, just one woman out of how many in the world?

 

I might be more jaded than usual as I'm coming out of a common-law marriage, but there is always another person out there instead of that particular one who is an ex of your friend.

 

However, I'm not trying to put myself on a pedestal either. I've made a lot of horrible choices in love during my lifetime. But this...this I will not do.

 

Rose Mosse...you are amazing!

[kim25]

thank you for feedback guys really has helped a lot..too me she crossed the line .so has he with little thought of how I feel..she is gone im slowly re building my life trust with people has gone but time is a great healer