Thoughts On Women Approaching Men

[Metaltwin70]

'you've been happily married for 15 years, and who knows where you'd be if you had sat back passively and waited for your "Mr. Right" to drop into your lap. Lol

_______

 

This, exactly! I've got this friend.. she's 41, single all her life. Like, never had even a few months' relationship. She literally genuienly believes that 'he's going to find me'. That one day this amazing handsome all around perfect bloke will knock at her door and ask her to marry him. Well not quite but you get my meaning. ''It's a man's job to ask out a woman, no ifs or buts', she says. 'What about books?? And movies??' she asks me. 'What about when the female character spills a shopping bag and this handsome stranger helps her pick it all up again and they magically fall in love??' I just die when she says these things. I even signed her up with a few OLD sites, did a profile for her, pictures, everything. Guess what? She sits there waiting for 'the one' to contact her!!!

 

I compare it to really really wanting a job yet sitting home doing absolutely nothing about it - not signing up with job sites, recruitment agencies, sending out your CV everywhere, applying for 10 jobs a day... and wondering 'why oh why am I still unemployed'. You want something, you go and get it. That's my motto, always has been.

[Metaltwin70]

'..If ever single again (and won't get into it now but it appears I may be soon -- more later, just some things have surfaced I'm not cool with)'

 

Oh no Katrina..sad to hear it.. :( let us know what's happening if you want to..

[Batya33]

But then I would give him my number and tell him to call me - and make it clear I was comfortable giving my number - but if he had to leave quickly and asked me to call him and there was a good reason he couldn’t call me then sure I would call him. I interpreted what Ray wrote to mean we met and chatted and he gave me his number with a vague expression of “call me sometime “ and had no interest in taking my number. Then I probably wouldn’t call.

[dias]

Kat, you moved to London?

[Batya33]

Also I want to add that I regularly struck up conversations with men at singles events and similar events. If a guy was checking me out I might wait a bit to see if he approached first. But I looked back and was approachable. Also I deliberately went alone and to club med alone too so that I’d seem more approachable than being in a large group of women. Also motivated me to approach even more. As I wrote I initiated my first convo with my future husband. To me that is different than who does the asking out.

[Metaltwin70]

'Edit: Oh and by the way metal, my mom pursued my dad!! Asked him out first, even asked him to marry her!!

 

She was very beautiful, a model at the time, and he admitted to me he felt totally intimidated by her!'

 

______

 

And as a result of this I'm now sitting here million miles away chatting to you!! :))

[bluecastle]

Sorry to hear about the struggles, K. Here for you, as always.

 

I admit I've been doing some thinking about how this approaching business has played out in my personal life. And what's funny is that, all in all, I don't think I've done a whole lot of approaching in the classic sense—funny because, at the risk of sounding immodest, I do okay out there in the world. I probably meet the description of "successful with the ladies"—that "probably" thrown in there, you know, to flash a bit of the faux-humility that just might be part of that "success."

 

That's not to say I spend my days sitting on my motorcycle or barstools, adopting a pose of brooding insouciance, making sure the light is hitting my jaw at the right angle, and waiting for "them" to come to me because I watched some YouTube tutorial about How to be Successful with the Ladies. Yawn. Gag. Gross.

 

I think it's just kind of more of a vibe thing. I'm open, warm, and curious by nature, and generally just find myself engaging with people when I'm out in the world. Could be an old man on a park bench who has read the book I'm reading, could be a beautiful woman in line at the taco truck who I end up having a beer with. Can't really say who made the first "move" because I don't think of it as a game.

 

Honestly I think the key is to think about all this stuff as little as possible—though perhaps I think about it too little. Or perhaps it's because, while I'm interested in dating, love, sex, and all that, I don't see women solely as a vessel for one or all of those things. I see them as people, people interest me, and I think people appreciate being the object of interest.

 

Admittedly, this can get me into some trouble, since it seems a lot of people view the opposite sex through a specific lens of extracting some version of romance. Like, last summer I met a woman at a birthday party, got her number, went to a movie. So I guess you could say I "approached." But I wasn't romantically interested, didn't even think of it as a date, and assumed that was clear since at the party we were both talking about dating escapades and I didn't feel that kind of vibe. But, alas, turned out she had different intentions and hopes, as I learned later through mutual friends. What was a swell hang for me was a meh date for her.

 

I'm supposed to have dinner with someone tonight—someone who, OMG, has different genitals than me!—and now suddenly I'm wondering if I've given the impression of it being a date because I asked for her number. We work in the same field, are newish to this city, had a nice time chatting at an event—seemed we'd have things to talk about for an hour. Beyond that I've given zero thought to it all.

 

Of course, now that so much of dating has moved to apps, we've kind of cut out the whole approach step. I mean, isn't that what a "match" is? It's basically a workaround to this whole nervy dance: you've both "approached" by swiping right. And on apps, for the record, I'm generally an "approacher," because my interest in texting a stranger is next to nil. I'm pretty quick to say something like, "Let's text in person, with our vocal chords, over a glass of wine and see if we get along." Sometimes the woman is quicker to the punch, of course. Fine either way.

[Batya33]

"I think it's just kind of more of a vibe thing. I'm open, warm, and curious by nature, and generally just find myself engaging with people when I'm out in the world. Could be an old man on a park bench who has read the book I'm reading, could be a beautiful woman in line at the taco truck who I end up having a beer with. Can't really say who made the first "move" because I don't think of it as a game. "

 

Exactly, if like BC you just generally like people, being around them, have a genuine curiosity even in the more mundane details of their lives - then who cares and who remembers.

 

I never ever considered clicking on a dating profile and sending a message as approaching in a dating sense. At all. To me the only relevance to clicking/swiping is for the practical reason that if you don't you obviously will never meet in person. Meeting in person is when the socializing, the exploring, begins - for any dating purpose - so I approached no one and no one approached me before we met - not in the sense we are talking about. Once we met I expected the man to ask me out on a date if he wanted to see me after the first meet. When we met I took the approach BC wrote about -I really enjoy meeting people as he does, I'm genuinely curious, so if I was interested in seeing him again that was obvious in how I interacted.

 

Certainly it is an "approach" if the purpose of swiping is to have an online relationship or an online sexting chat buddy. I'm referring to using a dating site for the purpose of meeting in person to see if you should date.

[bluecastle]

When we met I took the approach BC wrote about -I really enjoy meeting people as he does, I'm genuinely curious, so if I was interested in seeing him again that was obvious in how I interacted.

 

Right!

 

I just don't spend a lot of time fretting about wether a woman, or women in general, like me "in that way." Or how to "optimize" getting them to feel those things. That is so not my base level when it comes to meeting women, be it at a party, on an app, whatever.

 

I'm seeing someone now, for instance. Been about six weeks. Getting pretty gaga over in BC-land. Our first "date" (in quotes because, per Batya, is was more of a meet-in-person) was a total blast. Not because she was hot and so clearly wanted to make out with me, since I wasn't really thinking about that (though of course I noticed she was breaking laws with her looks). It was a blast because four hours flew by and I wanted more hours. So I hugged her goodbye and texted her the next day to make another plan.

 

Again, I wasn't even really thinking of that as a date. I couldn't really read her—because, well, she was basically a total stranger—which was fine. I just liked talking to her, asking her questions, being asked questions back. It was maybe 5 hours into that second hang where it went from "meet in person" to being clear we were on a date. Clear because that sizzle came to the surface, and, yeah, we acknowledged it together, without words.

 

My point is I don't really know who approached who or what either of our intentions were. I wasn't hunting for sizzle, but was just into meeting someone and seeing what happened.

[Batya33]

Right!

 

I just don't spend a lot of time fretting about wether a woman, or women in general, like me "in that way." Or how to "optimize" getting them to feel those things. That is so not my base level when it comes to meeting women, be it at a party, on an app, whatever.

 

I'm seeing someone now, for instance. Been about six weeks. Getting pretty gaga over in BC-land. Our first "date" (in quotes because, per Batya, is was more of a meet-in-person) was a total blast. Not because she was hot and so clearly wanted to make out with me, since I wasn't really thinking about that (though of course I noticed she was breaking laws with her looks). It was a blast because four hours flew by and I wanted more hours. So I hugged her goodbye and texted her the next day to make another plan.

 

Again, I wasn't even really thinking of that as a date. I couldn't really read her—because, well, she was basically a total stranger—which was fine. I just liked talking to her, asking her questions, being asked questions back. It was maybe 5 hours into that second hang where it went from "meet in person" to being clear we were on a date. Clear because that sizzle came to the surface, and, yeah, we acknowledged it together, without words.

 

My point is I don't really know who approached who or what either of our intentions were. I wasn't hunting for sizzle, but was just into meeting someone and seeing what happened.

 

Yes, so especially once I was in my mid-late 20s I didn't feel I could go with the flow to that extent - I needed to know ASAP whether a person I was interested in that way was looking for the same things I was looking for and was single/available. I didn't have time to invest in dating people who weren't on the same page with me. I was into "seeing what happened" once I knew we were on the same page and that "seeing what happened" was fine for the first couple of months -after that I needed to know if there was serious future potential -not just as a general goal but specifically with us.

 

Many years ago a friend set me up with a guy. We went out for dinner and had a nice time. I would have seen him again. He called me within the week (pre-cell phone, pre-internet) and basically vented for close to an hour about how his job was awful, other stuff was awful etc. I listened, was supportive. After all that time he basically said "I have to go now" and I, surprised, blurted out something about -well, didn't you call to ask me out again? So he said kind of dumbfounded that he couldn't go out again now because as he just explained he had so much going on. So, no, I did not appreciate a near stranger taking up my time in that way without intending to see me again, just used me as a sounding board. That's where I wasn't into the "it's a journey and go with the flow" kind of thing. That's where I did care who took initiative - for me it had to be balanced -he had to step up to the plate and ask me out again or just not call -calling in that situation just to vent was not ok.

[Jibralta]

I find men who approach me to be more attractive. Probably for the same reasons that he finds forward-women attractive.

 

I have to modify this statement somewhat. The day after I declared it, my male coworker called me over to compliment my haircut and ended with "I think you're cute as f*ck."

 

I did not find that attractive at all. Or flattering. It was sort of intimidating and exhausting, actually.

 

So, there is a limit to the charm of those who approach.

[Batya33]

I have to modify this statement somewhat. The day after I declared it, my male coworker called me over to compliment my haircut and ended with "I think you're cute as f*ck."

 

I did not find that attractive at all. Or flattering. It was sort of intimidating and exhausting, actually.

 

So, there is a limit to the charm of those who approach.

 

But that's not a genuine compliment I would say because it was all about him "look at me, I can say whatever I want here no matter how inappropriate because I'm awesome". (yes I think he does find you attractive - I mean, obviously right?? ;-) - but his pointing it out in that way did not have to do with wanting to have you feel good or comfortable.

[Jibralta]

I definitely didn’t feel complimented! And you’re right: it was a complete disregard for my feelings.

[bluecastle]

I have to modify this statement somewhat. The day after I declared it, my male coworker called me over to compliment my haircut and ended with "I think you're cute as f*ck."

 

I did not find that attractive at all. Or flattering. It was sort of intimidating and exhausting, actually.

 

So, there is a limit to the charm of those who approach.

 

Gross.

 

This is why I basically never "approach" in the traditional sense. Being "that guy" is the last thing I want to be, and to me you're basically "that guy" if you cold approach a woman in a lot of scenarios.

 

I don't know if this comes from being raised only around women—no dad, no brothers, no male cousins—but I've always been pretty sensitive to how "intimidating and exhausting" a certain male energy can be.

 

Like, let's say I'm at a bar or standing by the cubbies after yoga class. Odds are—because, well, I am very much a man—I've noticed a woman or two that I find intriguing and wouldn't mind talking to.

 

But, let's be real: what do I mean by "intriguing"? Sure, it is more than the shape of their body—some kind of flutter-induing vibe that allows me to project a potentially compelling personality onto...what? A surface that the caveman in me finds awfully nice.

 

And so to even say "hi" at the bar or (especially, given the vulnerable environment) yoga is, to me, potentially not so different than your tone-deaf coworker. An invasion of space. Intimidating. Inappropriate. The icky kind of forward.

 

Which is not to say I'm a passive player, like the mythic dude from the other forum. Guess it comes back to that vibe thing again, just emitting an energy that is open and confident—and, sure, masculine—but not threatening and seeing what comes.

[Batya33]

I definitely didn’t feel complimented! And you’re right: it was a complete disregard for my feelings.

 

Also even worse because from all I read about what you write, what you do - what planet is he on thinking you'd like to be called "cute" in that context! (and that's my compliment to you lol)

[Jibralta]

A surface that the caveman in me finds awfully nice.

 

Lol. The word "caveman" did come to mind.

 

Which is not to say I'm a passive player, like the mythic dude from the other forum. Guess it comes back to that vibe thing again, just emitting an energy that is open and confident—and, sure, masculine—but not threatening and seeing what comes.

 

The word "masculine," to me, brings to mind adjectives like strong, brave, assertive, and sometimes aggressive. I would have to say that strong and brave are the traits that I find most attractive in men. Assertive is great, too.

 

Aggressive is usually also stupid, and stupid is unattractive. So, aggressive is a turn-off.

 

There's something to be said for passive and sweet. But I know myself and I test the limits of people. I don't want to be the boss; I just want boundaries. I push those passive ones all over the place, eventually right out of the relationship because I can't abide poor boundaries.

 

Aggressive is just another form of poor boundaries, come to think of it.

 

Also even worse because from all I read about what you write, what you do - what planet is he on thinking you'd like to be called "cute" in that context! (and that's my compliment to you lol)

 

Thank you :)

[abitbroken]

Lol. The word "caveman" did come to mind.

 

 

 

The word "masculine," to me, brings to mind adjectives like strong, brave, assertive, and sometimes aggressive. I would have to say that strong and brave are the traits that I find most attractive in men. Assertive is great, too.

 

Aggressive is usually also stupid, and stupid is unattractive. So, aggressive is a turn-off.

 

There's something to be said for passive and sweet. But I know myself and I test the limits of people. I don't want to be the boss; I just want boundaries. I push those passive ones all over the place, eventually right out of the relationship because I can't abide poor boundaries.

 

Aggressive is just another form of poor boundaries, come to think of it.

 

 

 

Thank you :)

 

Aggressive is not inherently bad -- being aggressive in going after your goals, aggressively fighting for an innocent person.

There is a difference between AggreSSIVE and aggreSION. Showing aggression is negative and being aggressive can be very good. It can be a positive trait.

 

I don't prefer passive and sweet. Sweet is good, passivity is not. Keep in mind -- passive has nothing to do with being cooperative, being soft spoken/choosing words carefully, etc. Passive means zero action, letting life happen to you, etc, being a pedestrian in it.

[RayRay63]

The line between being sweet, and being passive, is difficult to define.

 

Much depends on whether you are simpatico with your partner.

 

At what point does aggressiveness become aggression?

 

I'd like to hear your view on this.

[Jibralta]

I think aggression becomes stupid when it is directed at other people, simply to intimidate and/or get what one wants.

 

Self defense or ambition are separate (in my mind) from this type of aggression.

[Batya33]

The line between being sweet, and being passive, is difficult to define.

 

Much depends on whether you are simpatico with your partner.

 

At what point does aggressiveness become aggression?

 

I'd like to hear your view on this.

 

Of course it is and that is one reason I am a fan of the traditional -ask for the number/ask the person out on a date in a pleasant/respectful way - if the person is single and it's not right in the workplace or a boss/employee -with rare exception - people know what is meant by that, and even if there is a mistake and the person is married or "taken" people get that too. It's more of a universal language than taking risks at "complimenting" strangers or coworkers in the manner Jibralta suggested. And passive then is typically a man who refuses to ask a woman out he is interested in who is showing interest -that is society's definition of passive - not saying I agree or not just saying there are certain ways to evaluate behavior that are mostly understood by all. Again with exceptions.

[abitbroken]

I think aggression becomes stupid when it is directed at other people, simply to intimidate and/or get what one wants.

 

Self defense or ambition are separate (in my mind) from this type of aggression.

 

that's aggreSSION not aggresSIVE

But "getting what one wants" is positive sometimes.

And there are some limited circumstances where intimidation has its place - intimidating your opponent with your skills/ability, or getting yourself out of a potentially dangerous situation. i

[Jibralta]

You can mince words and extrapolate all you want. But I am talking about a very specific thing, related to some men's interaction with women.

[katrina1980]

Cute story:

 

My beautiful niece is 5, in kindergarten.

 

My brother sent me a photo of a boy, her classmate, that my niece sent a valentine to. Holding a note he wrote back telling her how much he loved her card (which she hand made), and thanking her for making him her valentine!

 

Signed

Love,

His name

 

So, somewhere along the way during her five years of life, she learned that girls initiate, send the valentines and perhaps in later years, approach and ask boys on dates.

 

Anyway, thought it was a cute story! And relevant to the subject of this thread. :)